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RIPE Meeting:


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Thursday, 5 May 2011, 14:00-15:30
NH Grand Hotel Krasnapolsky, Amsterdam, Netherlands
Co-chairs: Niall O'Reilly, Carsten Schniefner (absent)


Welcome, scribe, chat monitor, microphone etiquette, agenda

Niall welcomed attendees at 14:00 local time and explained that his fellow co-chair, Carsten Schiefner, was unable to attend, as also was Lino Santos (FCCN, Portugal), and that both had contributed significantly to the preparation of the meeting.

B: Minutes of previous meetings

B1: Finalize Minutes of ENUM-WG at RIPE 60, Prague

B2: Finalize Minutes of ENUM-WG at RIPE 61, Rome

Last call to finalise the minutes is due on the mailing list.

Niall O'Reilly to make last call on mailing list for minutes from RIPE 60 and 61.

C: Review Action List

ENUM-AP-61.1 [DONE] Niall O'Reilly, Carsten Schiefner and Peter Koch to clarify point from RIPE 60 minutes.

ENUM-AP-61.2 [DONE] Carsten Schiefner to get more information on NRENUM.

ENUM-AP-61.3 Denesh Bhabuta to organise a panel.

D: Main presentations

D2 and F2: ENUM and +1800 - Pavel Tuma, CZ.NIC

Niall O'Reilly, ENUM WG co-Chair asked Pavel if they had a project ready for exploring the question of where to go next.

Pavel replied that they are setting up a prototype environment that includes the application, but probably only for the two use cases that he showed (web and advertising), but it's still ongoing.

Bernie Hoeneisen,, asked if there had been been discussions about applications to influence the queuing, so the caller goes to the right queue.

Pavel replied that there have been and that there can be some benefits if the user supplies some info with the HTTP request.

D1: NRENUM - Peter Szegedi, TERENA

Niall O'Reilly, ENUM WG co-Chair, asked what “GDS” is.

Peter said it stood for Global Dialing Scheme, it means that you have an AN H323-based video conference unit. You can call the GDS number, the phone number for the end-point, which is then routed via the GDS hierarchy by the Gatekeepers. Those are maintained by the NRENs. There are often issues with the Gatekeepers, so it was decided to replace them with a DNS lookup service.

Niall O'Reilly asked if Peter sees SIP replacing GDS, or will they operate in parallel.

Peter replied they would operate in parallel and that they check both, and GDS is still used for those video conference infrastructures. He added that they're told SIP will be the final answer to everything, though it's not there yet, so GDS is still important.

Bernie Hoeneisen,, asked if GDS is just a means of finding the other number. He added that video conferences are based on H323 or SIP and that GDS has not been supported for five years but is still there.

Ondrey Sury, CZ.NIC, asked Peter what other conditions are there for putting or delegating zones in He added that they don't own the numbers, and wondered what proof there is that the owner agrees.

Peter replied that they gave no strict procedures or conditions and that in their case, if the university is served by the NREN and the VOIP service is offered by the NREN, than they allow the NREN to act as registry and registrar both. The university has contact with the NREN, so there's not a third organisation in the picture as it happens with the golden tree.

D3: IETF ENUM work complete - Bernie Hoeneisen,

There were no questions for Bernie.

E: ENUM Operations

E1: Tier-0 Report - Wolfgang Nagele, RIPE NCC

Bernie Hoeneisen,, asked Wolfgang why were so many lame delegation zones and who they were.

Wolfgang replied that Anand Buddhdev, RIPE NCC, would look that information up.

Bernie suggested a discussion about the quality of service. He said that the timeouts are bad for the quality of a VOIP system. He proposed that those who cannot maintain their nameservers well should be removed from the zone file.

Wolfgang replied that they get into a weird situation because as long as it's not widely used, one could argue that the service quality isn't so important. On the other hand, bad quality might affect the uptake of the service. He said that his personal opinion is that if you qualify for an ENUM delegation, at least it should work.

Bernie said he would be interested to know if those who have lame delegations are those who do not do anything with ENUM.

Wolfgang replied that Anand has the list of lame delegations.

Anand Buddhdev, RIPE NCC, said that the completely lame delegations were: 65 Signapore, 39 Italy, 84 Vietnam, 62 Indonesia.

Wolfgang said they could contact the operators, but wondered if they had the mandate to do that.

Anand said they had sent mails to the operators in the past, but never received any response and the problems haven't gone away.

Wolfgang added that even the contact records for Italy are not reachable.

Bernie asked if there is a policy document that forbids removing the zone.

Wolfgang replied that as far as he understood, the RIPE NCC does not decide what goes into the zone.

Alex Le Heux, RIPE NCC, said that was correct. The RIPE NCC passes all requests for ENUM delegations to the ITU. If they approve it, the RIPE NCC sets up the delegation, if it's not approved, the delegation isn't set up. That's as far as RIPE NCC involvement goes.

Brett Carr, Nominet, commented that Italy has been gone for a while, and that he tried to contact them when he worked for the RIPE NCC and couldn't reach them.

Wolfgang commented that the RIPE NCC finally contacted them.

Niall O'Reilly, ENUM WG co-Chair, commented that it's usually the same parties on this chart.

Wolfgang said that was the case.

Denesh Bhabuta, Aexiomus Limited, commented that once a delegation is received, it does take some time for things to get operational. He suggested that Brett comment on how long it took the UK to do this.

Wolfgang replied it had been like this for years.

Anand added that when they do the delegation, they always check the nameservers. At some point all of these were responding. They've gone silent after that.

Denesh said that was true for the UK as well and they got the delegation during the test phase. There was a time where the nameservers were not responding.

Bernie Hoenheisen and Niall O'Reilly suggested taking it to the mailing list.

F: Short News

F3: +351 (PT) delegation

Niall O'Reilly gave this presentation instead of Lino Santos (FCCN, Portugal), who was unable to attend, and explained that he would not be able to answer questions.

F1: update - Niall O'Reilly

F2: .cz ENUM - Pavel Tuma


Denesh Bhabuta asked what happened with action item ENUM-AP-61.3, the panel.

Z: Close

ACTION ITEM ENUM-AP-61.3: Carsten Schiefner and Niall O'Reilly to work with Denesh Bhabuta on the panel, aiming to have it up for RIPE 63.

Denesh asked whom they'd work on the panel with. He said that Robert Schischka has been around the ENUM scene a long time.

Summary of open action items:

ENUM-AP-62.1: Niall O'Reilly to make last call on mailing list for minutes from RIPE 60 and 61.
ENUM-AP-61.3: Carsten Schiefner and Niall O'Reilly to work with Denesh Bhabuta on the panel, aiming to have it up for RIPE 63.