RIPE 60

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RIPE 60 EIX Working Group – Session I and II
Prague, 6 May 2010, 11:00-12:30 and 16:00-17:30
Co-chairs: Andy Davidson, Cara Mascini (not attending), Fearghas McKay (not attending).

A. Administrative Matters

• Welcome
Andy Davidson welcomed the attendees and began the EIX session at 11:00 local time.

• Finalise agenda
Andy went through the agenda and asked if there were any additions or omissions. There were none.

• Scribe and Jabber Monit
Andy thanked the technical team, scribe, Jabber monitor from the RIPE NCC for their help during the session.

B. NIX.CZ - Introduction to Peering in Prague
Tomas Marsalek gave a presentation "Peering - meeting - (beering) at Prague, Czech Republic". The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Marsalek-Peering_meeting_beering_.pdf

C. Approval of Minutes RIPE 59
Andy Davidson apologized for the delay in approving the minutes from RIPE 59 and asked if there were any comments. There were no comments and the minutes were approved.

D. Euro-IX Update
Serge Radovic gave an update on Euro-IX. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Radovcic-Euro-IX_Update.pdf

There were no questions for Serge.

E. IXP Updates

• NIX.CZ, Host city
Josef Chomyn gave the NIX.CZ update. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Chomyn-NIX.CZ_update.pdf

• AMS-IX
Elisa Jasinska gave the AMS-IX update. The presentation is available at:

• DE-CIX
Andreas Sturm gave the DE-CIX update. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Sturm-DE-CIX_update.pdf

Andy Davidson asked Andreas about the method used to collect IPv6 usage data. Andreas said that they used the MRTG graphs and recently changed it to s/flow based graphing because the results weren't previously reliable.

• Espanix
Cristóbal Lopez gave the Espanix update. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Lopez-Espanix_Update.pdf

• Equinix
John Taylor gave the Equinix update. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Taylor-Equinix_Update_RIPE_60.pdf

• Exchange West
Martin List-Petersen gave the Exchange West update. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/List-Petersen-Exchange_West.pdf

Christian Copcea from Interlan asked how Exchange West transports regional ISP to Exchange West's exchange point, Martin said it's up to each ISP and that there were several possibilities. He noted that it costs three times as much to haul traffic from the west coast to Dublin, compared to what it would cost from Dublin to Paris.

• LINX
Mo Shivji gave the LINX update. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Shivji-LINX_Update.pdf

• LONAP
Will Hargrave gave the LONAP update. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Hargrave-LONAP_IXP_Update.pdf

Bill Woodcock from Packet Clearing House asked if LONAP were going to be doing any work on their traffic graphing, to remove the spurious spikes. Will said it's on the to-do list.

• SFINX
Jerome Durand gave the SFINX update. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Durand-SFINX.pdf

Andy Davidson asked Jerome if they had traffic graphs. Jerome said they weren't in his presentation, but that SFINX has 25 GB peaks in the day.

• VIX
Harald Michl gave the VIX update. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Michl-VIX_Update.pdf

• Netnod
Johan Ihrén gave the Netnod update. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Ihr_n-Netnod_Update.pdf

Martin Levy from Hurricane Electric asked Netnod to talk about policy on publishing traffic graphs for every customer. Johan said that traditionally in Sweden, most ISPs are happy to have the traffic graphs published.

• INEX
Nick Hilliard gave the INEX update. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Hilliard-inex-update.pdf

Nick proposed restructuring the EIX WG session... today there are too many similar presentations. He said feedback he received was that the session was a bit boring.

Andy Davidson suggested having a conversation about revitalizing the EIX WG session and invited members that have never presented before to get involved.

Andy closed the session at 12:33 local time and invited attendees to the afternoon session at 16:00 local time.

EIX Session II – 16:00 - 17:30
---------------------------------------------
Co-Chair Andy Davidson welcomed attendees to the afternoon session and introduced a change to the agenda: Vincent Rais from Interxion would give his presentation on IXP Business Models followed by Johan Ihrén from Netnod.

F. Route-Server Mini-Workshop

• BIRD update
Ondrej Filip from NIX.CZ gave an update on BIRD. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Filip-BIRD_update.pdf

Ondrej shared future plans including: a new webpage, examples in documentation, IPv6 Route advertisement, Lightweight CLI (for OpenWRT), Route flap dampening, Solaris port (CZ.NIC DNS anycasting), and anything else the user requests.

Jerome Durand from GIP Renator asked if they are working support for RPKI infrastructure between the router and the cache. Ondrej said it's been spoken about, but there are no plan

• Demonstration of VIX Route Server portal
Harald Michl from VIX demonstrated the VIX Route Server portal. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Michl-VIX_route-server_portal.pdf

Nick Hilliard from INEX commented that the web based system was the way to go, because community-based filtering system breaks with 32bit ASNs, but also as you scale, the route server gets bigger – if you have prior knowledge of what you are routing, filtering configuration can cut down on the number of RIBs you need to maintain within your BGP demon. Harald concurred and said that the policy is bilateral and bidirectional, no paths will open unless there is consensus.

David Croft, via Jabber, asked if VIX intended to make the portal available to other IXPs. Harald said that if others were interested, they would share it.

Andy announced a change to the agenda again and apologized. Vincent will give his presentation on IXP Business Models next.

G. IXP Business Models
Vincent Rais from Interxion gave his presentation on IXP Business Models. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Rais-Internet_Exchange_Challenges.pdf

Andy praised Vincent's presentation and said at "talking about the elephant in the room helps".

H. Euro-IX Quagga Development
Nick Hilliard from INEX gave a presentation on Euro-IX Quagga Development. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Hilliard-euro-ix-quaggadev.pdf

Rubens Kuhl from NIC.br asked Nick if there were plans for improving or changing BFD support on Quagga or if he thinks BFD is a nice feature to use on an IXP. Nick said they haven't really looked at it. He said it can be done, but it's difficult and not operating system portable. He said if there is a need, they could put it on a wish list.

Andy announced that Kurt Lindquist had to step out and that Johan Ihrén from Netnod would give the next presentation.

I. WDM Implementation at an IXP
Johan Ihrén from Netnod gave his presentation on WDM Implementation at an IXP. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Ihr_n-WDM_installation_at_Netnod.pdf

Nick Hilliard from INEX asked if Netnod have any legacy coloured trance receivers that had to me moved over to Transmode boxes. Johan said they did not.

Rubin Kuhl from NIC.br asked about Johan's "now or later" argument regarding 100gb connections. Johan said he didn't have much to say on it, and that Netnod wouldn't be the first or last adopter.

Martin Levy from Hurricane Electric asked Johan to talked about the reliability of the DWDM method versus the customers putting whatever extended reach opt particulars to take extra fiber length out from the city. Johan said not really, that he didn't have any numbers on that.

J. TRILLing New Features for Your IXP LAN
Andy Davidson from LONAP, and co-chair of the EIX Working Group, gave a presentation on TRILL. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Davidson-TRILLing_new_features_for_your_IXP.pdf

Aaron Hughes from 6connect, Inc., asked if there were any existing vendor implementations of TRILL today. Andy said there were none that you could buy that he knew of and that the protocol specification proposal was currently in the RFC editors queue.

Aaron suggested getting feedback from vendors on the intent for migration.

Nick Hilliard from INEX asked about the difference between loop management protocols and routing protocols. He said that he'd love to use it, but didn't think equipment would support it because a lot of the equipment doesn't support generic layer 3 forwarding.

James Blessing, via Jabber, asked what are benefits of Trill vs. VPLS. Andy said the AMS-IX model are using VPLS is a really good model and Trill implements a lot of the same features at Layer 2. AMS-IX have had to use something else today, because these features aren't here, yet. However their solution allows them to resell connections in a new way (their partner program).

K. The new Tel-X Membership Portal
Michael Lucking from Tel-X gave his presentation on the new Tel-X Membership Portal. The presentation is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-60/presentations/Lucking-Telx_Participant_Portal.pdf

Andy apologized for going late and asked people to stay for the EURO IX film competition winner. John Taylor from Equinix introduced the film, "The Internet Revealed". John encouraged people that found the film interesting to share it on their websites, blogs, etc.

Michael asked if there was a higher quality version available. John said yes and it was available on the EURO IX website. Audience member asked if it was available for public use. John said that it was, and that the credits should be kept in the end.

Z. A.O.B.
There were no other questions or comments.
Andy ended the session at 17:52 local time.