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EIX-WG RIPE 39. Bologna, Italy.

Date: 01-05-2001
(Sala Italia)

Chairman: Fearghas McKay
No. ofAttendants:

- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Presentation 1:

Introduction to EURO-IX.
presentation on recent work in the European IXP community.
(Arnold Nipper)

Introduce us to Euro-IX
Why, what is Euro-IX?:
This is not a new initiative.
The concept has been bouncing, and the moment for this has arrived.
Euro-IX is complementary to the rest of EIX.
They want to have a prop. secretariat and own organisation, budget, etc.

Objectives (3):
- Portal web site describing all the affilliated ISPs.
- They want to have an association to exchange info about how
to run an EIX.
- Assist the coordination.

Euro-IX is not:
- An exchange point. Not offers interc. or housing facilities.
- Will not impose any standards (technical...) to any of its members.

Few members already:
* MIX (IT)
* VIX (AT)
* AIX (GR) (loi)
* CIXP (loi)

Provisional: AIX (Greece), CIXP (ch).

Applicatons will be accepted until 31st May 2001. Letters have been
available at the meeting.

Structure of the association:
- Non for profit.
- Secr. to provide: admin, treasury, logistics.
- Webmaster.
- Policy board: Charter members (one vote per IXP.
- Consultation with founding members on policy issues.
- Re-assesment of structure after 1 year.

Policy boards: J. Witeman, P. Delmoitie, Harald Summa, ....

Benefits to the ISP:
One of the objectives: Single point of information about affiliated
IXPs accros Eu. including:
- Connected peers, Services, Pricing, legal framework.

Benefits to the IXP:
Shared knowledge (Technical and other).
Pan-European prospective.
Up-to-date Info on EU legislation.
They will be not like RIPE WG.

Who may apply for membership: any IXP operating in Europe.

How much does it costs?
NFP: 5000 p.y.
FP: 10.000p.y.
(missing one modality)

Contact info:
More info @
e-mail: [email protected]

Web already there,


Big discussion starts here:

Rob B - suspects kind of secret society here with a hidden agenda. Objects that
not all members have same status. Is horrified that not all information is
open to non-members (would accept this for operational stuff, that's
actually what RIPE NCC does as well).

Keith Mitchel : critics on structure, warns not to make similar
mistakes as in the past.

Andre Oppermann (IXEurope) also does not like the initiative and suggests to
keep activities within the EIX working group.

Some Comments.
(No applauses).

- --------------------
IXP presentations
- --------------------

(Mike Hughes).

- - Presents LINX Organisation.
(John Scooter - new CEO).

- - Talked about changes in Joining requirements (relaxation).

- - Members by country: Total=119. before: UK 50% now increasing (last meeing).

- - TRAFFIC: reaching 7Gbps. last week: peak: 6.8Gp.

- - ARCHITECTURE: Alcatel switches. replace by Foundry BigIRON.
* BigIRON 150000 soon deployed in Telehouse.

* Foundry multc. containent via PIM snooping.

* Strengthenning fibre resilience.

- - Peering escalation:

* Still somethings to be discussed.
* NOCs should take care before scalating.


Andrew: Wiretap?
Not at the moment.

- -------------------------------------------------------------

Xchange Point.
(CTO - Keith Mitchell)

* What we're doing.
Who we are. Presents the organisation.

* Diffs and Strenghts: VC funding: f.p. Euro 9M.

* Neutrality Principles.

VC ownership is Neutral.
Colocation prov. neutral.
Service provision will be Neutral.

* How are they doing this:

- - Buildings from scratch.
- - Service needs of emerging IPP customer communities.
- -....


- - 2 CORE NODES per city.
2 or more Basic nodes per city.
- - ADVA WDM equipment at all sites.
Dark Fibre metro ring conn. all sites in city.
- - GBEth between switches...

* Ethernet swtches:

Single vendor:

2 Extreme Black Diamond 6806i at core sites.
2 Extreme aLpine 3804 switches at basic sites.

Shows pictures of them

DWDM advantages:
- - BW multipplication.
- - Extra reslience.
- - Iner-switch trunking, optical circuit protection aroind ring...

- - New services.
- - Scalabilities.
- - Wavelans....

DWDM configuration, capabilities of the equipment. Initial config: 8lambdas.

* Private interconnect:
- - Cooper and fiber. cross-conn available as a service within sites.
- - Dedicate single DWDM lambdas or channesl to pricate interconect
high volume clints.
- - GBEht. also STM-4 STM-16 options.
Protected and unprotected. options.
- - Lambdas avaialble only for ISPs.

* Build status:

Ready to give service. Still finishing.

Shows some pictures about their installations.

* Service trial:
Pilot service availble now
Incentives for early adopters.
Upto 10 particip.

* Customers: X0, Verio, Soon others.

Service offerings.

* SLAs comitments: Service provision within 10 days of order. 24x7.
vaila: 99%. loss: 0% or 0.05%

* Future:
24X7PanEuropean NOC.
10GE switches.
Start thinking about inter-ISP VoIP...

* Contact details: [email protected]. +44 1733 865022

* Questions:

1 - Do you want to substitute the current public IXPs?.

2 - If there's thenecesssity to take care of your traffic, etc...
provide an environment where you have both.
ISPs (small) should begin with public peers, and then...

3 - IPv6 in diff. VLANs.
We just move frames around.
Replica; diff physically?
Not necessary

4 - Looks very expensive... if you have a blackout...
We're making revenue of selling port capacity.
Traffic always grows....

5 - Bill Manning: Are you going to rely on your own ...

6 - SLA is 99.7% is what your customer can expect?.
It is more than any IXP can offer.
We try to run IXPs in that terms.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Job Witeman)

7 new members.
Total: 115.

* Ports per site: (NikHef, SARA, TeleCity).
76, 56, 4 (Not able to get all the data).

* Traffic: Slowing down since november.
Peak: over 3Gbps.

* TeleCity and GlobalSwitch are off. mmbers of AMSIX.

* Shows topology map. (replaced some switches).

1 - Is anybody connected right now to GlobalSwitch?
Maybe today one (May the 1st).

2 - (Mike Hughes) reasons about the high traffic by night.

3 - Fibers?.
Deal with colo providers to provide services.
In general is very easy to get dark fiber in Amsterdam (apart of
the time it takes to event. get it).

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Brief update:

Operational up to today.
Annual meeting: expecting dramatical changes.
Members:85. (increasing).
Supporting the Euro-IX.

Second expansion site: Frankfurt.
(completely separate IT).

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
CIXP (short update)
(Paolo Moroni).

Interconnection with Switzerland.
Services: usual xchange services
Additional informal, best effort(and free) services.
and DNS.

Partnership: Telehouse-CERN. operational since October 2000.
Is not exclusive.
Combination of the 2 orgs. provides wider offerings thatn either one could do.
Operations: [email protected]

Multicast, IPv6.

Join the RIS project (RIPE NCC).
Join the TTM (Input to RIPE NCC TTM service enhancements).

CERN will continue to operate and enhance the CIXP.
Participation in GEANT and Datagrid

Not relevant.

2 - What's regard to the .ch domain? No. The primary is in the
academic network. But the path is pretty short..

- --------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------------------------------------------------------------

LoNAP (update at RIPE 39).
(James A.T. Rice).

29 Members (26 active).
3 more soon.

Peers: 537 running peerings. 162 Not agreed.

Annual G.M. (March 2001). New directors appointed.
GigaBit services to be offered.

IAN ROBERTSON (FastNet) Chair and Financial Dir.

2 switches existing and a single for multicast trial.
3 new switches. GBEthernet, multicast,...

Membership costs: GBP 1500 (install. fee).

Looking into expansion sites.


No questions.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------
(Juan Puente).

Based in Madrd.
Founded in 1996. On Line from 1997.
Hosted by BANESTO (Spanish Bank).


27 members.
2,4 GBps.
High availability (99.997%). 100% in 2000.

Adminision criteria (to own an internationa IP network).

We give them:
- a full-rack
- 10/100/1000 connection.
- Cost: Setup fee Euro 60.00.
24x7 assistance.


- Full time staff.
- 2nd. location.
- More service.

[email protected]


1 - Daniel Diaz: Is there any Time Schedule in place to setup the
2nd. location? 3 monhs.

2 - Diferent carriers: 7 providers. Few more in the following months.

3 - Kind of equipment are you using: Cabletron.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------

40 request .ch per seconds.

Close to 20 prov. in the building available.
Lowest prices 100 Euro. (1 port) 200 Euro (2 ports).

No questions.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------


History: non.fp.

29 members.
7 founding members.
Should be ISPs, own AS, own IP space.
Int. connectivity must be independet.
build own lines.


- - Bilateral peering contracts.
- - More than 95% of all x peerings
- - usually free of charge.


Cisco - catalyst 4003, 2948 G for 10 / 100 MBPS.

- - Utilizattion:

fee: setup: $1.315. $2370 $2150
1 Gbps: Decided to use cisco. (2nd. oprion was Extreme).

Intranet server: everymember can see the statistics of all ports,
allows members to update
information. electronic voting system.

[email protected]

Josef Chomin, member of Executive comitte.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -

(Christian Panigl).

End of March: moved from Catalyst to Black Diamond (UNIVIE).
5 new connections in the 1st. month.20 connections in total.


1 - Lines interconn.??

2 independent fiber connections (dff. carriers). 2 GB between the 2
sites. (1+1).
Considering (studing) to increase this and use new technologies (DWDM).


Need for coordin multicast accross xchanges?

Keith> yes it's useful. Because the vendors are not doing multicast
the way the IXPs like to do it...

Mike Hughes: Starting with PIM on the foundry's.
Extreme is releasing multicast functionality for ther equipment.

This will cotinue in the switching list.

No more inputs about multicast related issues.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------
(Mike Hughes)
SWitching wishlist (draft version).


Thanks to few people, Christian Panigl, etc...

Contents of the Draft: standards and features that are necessary in
switches (related to IXPs).
Problems related to any of th implementations.
- -Multicast control and containment.
- -Intelligent Layer 2 forwarding - MAC-SPF.
- -IEEE 803.3ad link aggregation.
- - MPLS (?).
- - Port mirroring.

Physical wishes:
- - Hot swap of management cards.
- - Full redundancy of PSUs.
- - Rapid booting and card startup.
- - GBIC optics for flexibility.

Keith: Finds this useful, ...