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RIPE 86 Routing WG Minutes

Wednesday, 24 May 2023, 09:00-10:00 UTC+2
Chairs: Ignas Bagdonas, Paul Hoogsteder, Job Snijders
Scribe: Adonis Stergiopoulos
Status: Final

1. Administrativia

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Ignas Bagdonas and Job Snijders opened the session and welcomed attendees.

2. RPKI Update

Ties de Kock, RIPE NCC

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Ties de Kock opened the presentation with a highlight as the number of certificates on the RIPE NCC's RPKI Trust Anchor has reached 20,000, indicating significant growth in the adoption of RPKI over the years. He then discussed the importance of RPKI validation and the challenges in gathering accurate data. De Kock mentioned two projects they have started using to measure RPKI validation rates, APNIC RoV drop invalid rate and RoVista. He also discussed several developments over the past year, starting with “Publish in Parent”, which was announced at RIPE 85, followed by the ASPA implementation. He then mentioned adopting a public status page to report incidents and further technical improvements to ensure stability and functionality before moving things into production.

De Kock discussed ongoing work, such as increasing r-sync capacity to handle disruptions and improve data retrieval during those times. He mentioned plans to rewrite and improve the RPKI dashboard to enhance the user experience. Organisational compliance was also mentioned as an ongoing project involving the design of a control framework, gap analysis, and implementation. Upcoming plans included the replacement of HSMs for better staging environment consistency, the implementation of ASPA in the production API after standard ratification, and the potential integration of ROA and route object management in the RPKI dashboard.

Peter Hessler, Globalways GmbH, asked if there is an ongoing with other RIRs about offering a mirroring service so RPKI objects can be retrieved from a single location. De Kock answered that he is unaware of any related projects in development.

Roelf Wichertjes asked about the size of the r-sync server that has been observed. De Kock answered that when investigated, their storage peaked at 200,000 per second, and they will have to check whether they could maintain that figure.

3. Taking the Shortcut - Advances in Segment Routing Traffic Engineering

Alexander Brundiers, Osnabrück University

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Alexander Brundiers, a RIPE Academic Cooperation Initiative (RACI) attendee, introduced the concept of traffic engineering, which involves controlling the traffic flow path in a network to achieve specific objectives such as avoiding faulty network elements or reducing energy consumption. He discussed segment routing as a tool for traffic engineering, where additional waypoints or labels are added to packets to control their path through the network. Brundiers highlighted the limitations of the current end-to-end segment routing approach, which requires the configuration of individual policies for each traffic demand, leading to a potentially large number of policies and increased complexity. To address this issue, he proposed using midpoint optimisation or IGP shortcut features, which allow multiple demands to share a single policy, significantly reducing the number of policies required. Brundiers presented research results demonstrating that the proposed approach achieves similar optimisation quality to conventional segment routing while requiring substantially fewer configuration efforts. He also mentioned ongoing work on a hybrid system that combines these two methods.

Tom Strickx, Cloudflare, asked if consideration was given to the label stack depth, as not all devices support deep stacks. Brundiers responded that the results were based on a label stack depth of two, with one intermediate hop and the final label.

Peter Hessler, Globalways GmbH, praised Brundiers on the concise and clear explanation of segment routing.

Alexander Azimov, Yandex, inquired about the different ways to code paths using segment routing, specifically mentioning node SIDs and adjacent SIDs. Azimov asked if the algorithm could calculate the optimal state when using adjacent SIDs. Brundiers replied that, currently, the algorithm does not support adjacent SIDs and relies solely on node SIDs.

4. RPKIviews - Archiving RPKI Data for the Very Curious

Job Snijders, Fastly

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Job Snijders presented on RPKIviews, a standard dataset for reference and research when debugging RPKI-related issues. It collects and archives RPKI data from various vantage points around the world, including raw DER-encoded, an interpreted output in JSON and CSV format, OpenMetrics files, and a log file. The archive offers researchers and operators valuable insights into the current state of RPKI and can be used for various analyses. Snijders talked about some use cases to identify issues such as incorrect ROA creation, enabling independent verification, and facilitating research on publication time delays. Concluding, Snijders appealed to the community for additional resources, such as hosting a node or providing a storage pool to sustain the growing archive.

Fiona Weber, Wobcom GmbH, asked if any attempts were made to deduplicate the data. Snijders answered that RPKIviews currently prioritises simplicity for researchers and operators. Deduplication is on the horizon; however, storing and managing the data can be challenging in the long run.

Tim Bruijnzeels, NLnet Labs, expresses that if the tool is used as a public archive, it may have some bias and should also flag any invalid objects. Snijders replied that the end goal is to provide a dataset for comparison with geographical, validator, and synchronisation diversity for long-term studies of the RPKI ecosystem.

5. Realtime, One Year On

Ben Cartwright-Cox, Port 179

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Ben Cartwright-Cox started with an overview of, which offers an easy-to-use interface for real-time queries, allowing users to retrieve information such as ASN, prefix, and other relevant data. One year after, includes a global looking glass to offer a consistent experience to similar tools and integration with IXPs, providing insights into top vendors and regional preferences for network equipment. also uses network ranking to provide information about network visibility, transit providers, and content providers in specific regions. Cartwright-Cox acknowledged the challenges faced with IXP route collection, including monitoring feeds for relevance and capacity limitations. They compared the number of BGP sessions and tables from RIPE RIS and, emphasising the value of route collectors on internet exchanges with low visibility. also supports BGP multi-hop and have many sessions and tables, thanks to the ability to feed v4 and v6 in the same TCP connection.

The presentation concluded with an update on deploying on various internet exchanges, such as NL-IX and South African INX exchanges. Cartwright-Cox encouraged organisations to set up feeds and engage with for improved data visibility.

There was no time for questions, and participants were advised to follow up on the mailing list for further discussions.

6. New Co-Chair Selection

Ben Cartwright-Cox, Port 179

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Snijders stepped down as co-chair of the Routing WG. Bagdonas and Hoogsteder thanked Snijders for his service to the community.

Ben Cartwright-Cox was selected as the new co-chair after a humming voting process and deliberation with the RIPE Chair, Mirjam Kühne.

End of session.