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RIPE Meeting:


Working Group:

RIPE NCC Services



Revision Number:


Comments about:

Meeting: RIPE 58, Amsterdam
Date: Wednesday, 6 May 2009
Time: 16:00 - 17:30 CET
Chair: Kurtis Lindqvist & Bijal Sanghani
Jabber: Xavier le Bris (RIPE NCC)
Scribe: Kjell Leknes (RIPE NCC)



A. Administrative Matters

  • Welcome - Kurtis Lindqvist
  • Select a scribe
  • Jabber Monitor
  • Microphone Etiquette
  • Approve Minutes from RIPE 57
  • Finalise agenda

B. RIPE NCC Update

Axel Pawlik, RIPE NCC

There were no questions.

C. Certification is Ready, What Now?

Axel Pawlik, RIPE NCC

Wilfried Woeber (Vienna University) commented that he sees this as an important tool that must be safe, well understood, easy to use and cheep to buy.

It was a common wish from the majority of speakers that this tool needed to become globally recognised and used. If not, it would only have a regional impact with little importance.

Volodymyr Yakovenko (Google) wanted to know the current efforts being made to make this work cross-Regional Internet Registry (RIR) and if the other RIRs had accepted them. Axel confirmed that they are already cooperating with the other RIRs and have started talking to the ITEF.

Rudiger Volk (Deutsche Telecom) aired concerns that this might also send the wrong signal showing how easy it is to hijack or black-hole routes in the global routing system. Axel Pawlik replied that the community needs to direct the RIPE NCC and draw the road map.

Remco van Mook (Equinix) commented that he supported the principal of Internet number resource certification but that he thought the implementation would be the difficult part.

Mohsen Souissi (AFNIC) felt that all organisations that hold PI space must have contracts. He wanted to know if this was also taken into consideration. Axel confirmed that this was the case and that the legacy address space would also be taken into consideration.

Rob Blokzijl (RIPE Chair) stated that he felt everyone agreed that things needed to be done carefully. The main goal must be kept in mind: quality of registration data. Registration policies and procedures are highly necessary. Distinction must be made between the different type of blocks. He added that he is happy that ARIN also focuses on this.

Steve Kent (BBN Technologies) disagreed with some of the earlier statements. ISPs choose how to route their networks. The goal must be with the good intention to produce a more secure product. Daniel Karrenberg (speaking as an private citizen) commented that he agreed with Steve on a technical basis. He added that he expected that a desire will grow for certification but that these are valid concerns.

The unintended consequences were also discussed. Kurtis Lindqvist (speaking as NETNOD, not as WG chair) stated that though having a secure routing system is desirable and needed, it is still important to recognise the conflicts this policy might have with many laws covered within the region. He referred to a recent case in the media where ISPs were, by some parties, considered to be accomplices to crimes. This tool could be considered good and bad, so it is important that it is developed carefully.

It was a common opinion that certification could not be deployed until there are solid policies and procedure, and that the RIPE NCC Services WG is the correct group to develop this. It would however be helpful if the RIPE NCC could collect a list of documents that would be affected by this policy. This list should be sent out to the working group.

D. Contractual Relationship Requirement for End Users

Andrea Cima, RIPE NCC

There were no questions.

E. RIPE NCC Member Survey 2008 Results - Paul Rendek, RIPE NCC

There were no questions.

F. Measuring the Quality of Number Resource Registration Data

Robert Kisteleki, RIPE NCC

There was no formal discussion regarding this agenda point. Rob Blokzijl (RIPE Chair) commented that he was very happy that this project has started. While Shane Kerr (ISC) commented that tough policy changes would have to be done for this.

G. Open Microphone Session

There were no questions.

Z. A.O.B.

The RIPE NCC Services WG wanted to thank Nigel Titley (RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman) and Kees Neggers and Jim Reid (former RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman and Board Member respectively) for all their efforts over the years. This has had a large impact on what the RIPE NCC has developed into.