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September 23rd, 1996
Nikhef, Amsterdam

Chair: Mike Norris
Scribe: Anne Lord

1. Preliminaries

The chairman welcomed the audience to the working group session and Anne Lord (was) auto-volunteered as scribe. There were over 90 people present at the meeting of the working group.

2. RIPE 24


The minutes from the previous working group meeting at RIPE 24 were approved without comment.


All the actions below were completed and marked as DONE:

Action 24.5 : complete ripe-104++ draft and circulate
Action 24.6 : produce new IP address request form
Action 24.7 : circulate paper on charging by local IR's
Action 24.8 : raise question of removing European networks from InterNIC db.

It was noted that in fact duplicate entries of European networks had now been removed from the InterNIC database.

3. Reports from Registries


It was noted that a full report from the RIPE NCC Registration Services Manager would be given at the plenary, so a report would be deferred until then.

Contributors committee

The RIPE NCC Contributors committee met on 11th September 1996. At the meeting there was agreement on the proposed activity plan for the RIPE NCC for 1997. Of relevance for the local IR working group, the workplan included recommendations to hire additional hostmasters for the Registration Services activity of the RIPE NCC, operating under the new policy and procedures of ripe-104++ (now ripe-140).

Other registries

There were no reports from other local IR's.

Other regionals

There were no reports from any other Regional IR's.

4. IP address space assignment

Summary of position

Several important documents were completed since the last meeting. These are:{txt,ps}
"European Internet Registry Policies & Procedures"{txt,ps}
"European IP Address Space Request Form"{txt,ps}
"Supporting Notes for the European IP Address Space Request Form"

ripe-140 obsoletes a number of other documents: ripe-104, ripe-105 and ripe-136 and is the first document to describe in full the policies of the European Regional Internet Registry. Other Regional IR's follow the same principles of policy.

Some inconsistencies

A number of inconsistencies between ripe-140 and ripe-141 have emerged. Notably :

The admin-c, zone-c and tech-c attributes in the objects in ripe-140 requests a "nic-hdl" as mandatory but this is not endorsed by the DB software.

The "status" attribute in the "inetnum" object in ripe-140 is mandatory but again this is not endorsed by the DB software.

A short discussion followed whereby it was agreed to make both attributes mandatory. This was to be recommended to the DB working group for approval.

5. Charging by local IR's

A draft paper by Mike Norris and Daniel Karrenberg on "Charging by local IR's" had now been circulated to the DNS working group mailing list and TLD's administrators. The paper was endorsed by the DNS working group and the group agreed that it should now be published as a RIPE document. The paper recommends that Local IR's should publish their policies with respect to the sale or not of both address and namespace.

Action: RIPE NCC

To publish paper on "charging by Local IR's" as a RIPE document.

6. Training

Training courses

A report on the status of the training for local IR's will be reported in the Report from the RIPE NCC in the plenary session.

Currently 2 courses per month are being run and there are no plans to reduce this frequency. It was noted that in the 1997 budget for the RIPE NCC, funds would continue to be available for the training of Internet registries.

It was suggested by Antonio_Blasco Bonito that it would be useful to have the slides from the training courses converted into html format. This was agreed by the NCC providing they could find a convertor from framemaker to html.

Action: RIPE NCC

To convert slides from Local IR training courses to html format subject to finding a suitable mechanism for conversion from framemaker.

Local IR workshop

There was no discussion under this point.

7. Input/output with other working groups


Recommendations will be made to the DB working group as reported under agenda point 4 "Some inconsistencies".


The DNS wg endorses the charging document as reported under agenda point 5 "Charging by local IR's".

There were no other comments as input our output from other working groups.

8. Global registry co-ordination

Daniel Karrenberg reported that the RIPE NCC as a Regional IR has a good working relationship with the IANA and the other Regional IR's. ripe-140 has been published as a guideline to the policies in Europe, but there is implicit agreement on these policies by all other Regional RR's.

He also reported that since the last meeting, all duplicate registration of networks in the InterNIC database for European networks have now been removed. Whilst the RIPE NCC and AP-NIC databases are synchronised as they use a common architecture, the InterNIC database does not and the work on the synchronisation between all RR's is held up by lack of resources at the InterNIC to devote to this. This is something that the RIPE NCC has no authority to do anything about. It was noted that the InterNIC database is now classless however.

9. Reverse domains

counts and errors

The counts and errors of the hostcount are regularly published by the RIPE NCC. Reverse zone errors are monitored closely, with offenders receiving notification of their errors with a request to fix. Daniel Karrenberg commented that the and zones are in fact quite well managed.

Wilfried Woeber asked whether it was recommended that reverse domains objects were mandatory in the RIPE DB. Carol Orange noted that it was "recommended" for /24 reverse domain objects to be registered and "mandatory" for /16 reverse domain objects.

10. AOB

Internet Registry Evolution (IRE)

Daniel Karrenberg reported on a new IETF working group, IRE, which falls under the operations area of the IETF. In Montreal a BOF was held which was quite well attended. The chairman of the group is David Conrad from the AP-NIC and he has circulated a number of draft charters of the working group. Consensus is yet to be reached on the document. Broadly speaking the charter can be defined as:

"discussing all aspects relating to the policies of Internet Registries and to channelise input from the IETF at large."

The RIPE NCC will attend these working group meetings regularly and report at RIPE meetings. There is also a mailing list which you can subscribe to at . Everyone at the local IR working group was encouraged to join in the discussions.

There was some discussion over the grey area between address space policies and namespace policies and how this fitted into the charter of the IRE working group. The RIPE NCC does not manage the allocation of namsespace as a RR but the InterNIC does. It was felt that the two should be kept as separate.


PIARA (Prices of Internet Addresses and Route Advertisements)

Mike O'Dell introduced another new working group which is currently under discussion, PIARA. It is concerned with an initiative looking at ways of charging for address space. There has been a suggestion to make an experiment with charging and a draft paper has been circulated.