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RIPE Meeting:


Working Group:

RIPE NCC Services



Revision Number:


Draft minutes of RIPE NCC Service WG - RIPE 47

Agenda, Webcasts, Presentations of sessions at:

Transcript of irc/jabber logs:

Tuesday 27th January 2004, 14.00 – 15.30

A. Agenda bashing Kurtis Lindqvist

- Scribes: Sabrina Wilmot and Filiz Yilmaz, RIPE NCC
- Minutes of RIPE 46 approved

B. Update from the RIPE NCC Axel Pawlik

Axel started his presentation explaining what the RIPE NCC and what the Activity Plan is. Then he zoomed into history, back to the document ripe-35 (May 1991) and pointed out that no registration services were mentioned. He continued showing how the RIPE NCC works together with the Executive Board, the members and this WG these days.

RIPE NCC tasks were explained in detail, the co-ordination and provision of services for its members and RIPE community, and its operation as one of four RIRs.

Axel pointed out that membership growth prediction is difficult but it is needed for the activity plan, the budget and the charging scheme. Therefore the RIPE NCC members will be involved and asked for help in the future.

The focus in 2004 is to improve the quality of services and to supply timely and accurate information. Details were given for RIPE NCC's membership services, the co-ordination activities, information services and new activities.

Axel Pawlik:
Is this presentation useful for you?

Kurtis Lindqvist:
The question was asked because last time (RIPE 46) we asked and only very few people had actually read the Activity Plan. The reason I asked Axel to give this presentation is that we need to come up with good ideas for the Activity Plan.

No further comments.

C. RIS and TTM service update Henk Uijterwaal

Henk gave an update on finished work items as well as technical details and development plans in other WGs.
The Test Traffic Measurements conditions of sale (now RIPE 297) and the Data disclosure policy (now RIPE-300) have been updated. The Annual service fee has changed and is from 1 Jan 2004 €1000/year for the 1st box and €500/year for 2nd – 9th boxes. Hardware to become cheaper too. IPv6 tunnel detection and a tunnel discovery tool were shown and other new features explained. Henk gave further updates on DNSMON and Routing Information Services (RIS) as well as the RISwhois tool and its key features.

Joao Damas:
You mentioned new documents about the database and contracts. How does this reflect Daniel's document presented in Barcelona?

Henk Uijterwaal:
It's an implementation of that. The document just prevents people to start abusing the data.

E. Proposal for announcement mailinglist Wilfried Woeber

Wilfried Woeber:
In the last couple of months quite a lot of formal and informal announcement where distributed by the NCC. If you are subscribed to more than one mailing list it was near the border of spam.
My proposal/question to the community is to create one announcement mailing list for alerts about new documents, services, etc. of things that are of interest for the community. Especially when it is not clear to which one mailing list an announcement should go.

Niall O'Reilly:
I had a different Idea, I think the lists should be expanded and the mailing program should identify duplicates when more

Kurits Lindqvist:
Is this a problem? Is this a good or bad idea?

Daniel Karrenberg:
You can do this locally with procmail. The NCC tries to send the messages with the same message ID. Mail reading software can easily identify duplicates.

Kurtis Lindqvist:
But do we want an announcement lists?

Having a separate announcement list is a good idea but don't take it away from the other lists because the announcements might create a discussion.

Kurtis Lindqvist:
Ok, let's give the idea to the RIPE NCC.

D. Co-Chair for the Working Group Kurtis Lindqvist

One volunteer had stepped forward and was accepted:
Bijal Sanghani, FLAG Telecom

Thursday 29th January 2004, 11.00-12.30

F. X.509 Support in the robot Shane Kerr

Initially, Shane talked about the overall PKI project that is carried out by RIPE NCC where the goal is to secure the communication with LIRs. This appears in RIPE NCC Activity Plan 2003.

X.509 is a maturing technology. The benefit of it can be used as a single authentication system though web or through e-mail based interaction.

Current status of the project is as follows:
- X.509 is integrated into LIR Portal.
- Final proposal for it to be integrated in RIPE Database has reached consensus. Soon it will be in RIPE Database.

Kurtis Lindqvist:
If I am mirroring RIPE Database what about the authentication?

Shane Kerr:
It is not part of this. Here we look strictly at updating the database. This particular technology is only for RIPE NCC members, not for all users of the database.

The next step is securing the Registration Services mailboxes. Phases for that are planned to be: first signing for authentication then (maybe, depending on member feedback) encryption for confidentiality.

Signing seems to be pretty clear. For both ingoing and outgoing mails the default will stay as the current system, and for members who want to have security through signature, they will have options to do this.

The aim of the presentation is to get feedback from community & members. The main question is "Do members' security concerns in communication with the RIPE NCC require encryption?"

No further questions.

G. Registration Services update Leo Vegoda

Activities, Requests, response times and improvements in RS Department were reported.

Most of the activities in 2003 were carried out in the direction of the comments/feedback came from membership survey held in 2002.

New features in LIR Portal were presented. These included improved login management for several registries and the PA Assignment Wizard which is a tool to help users complete PA request forms.

Andre Koopal:
Will the code for the wizard be available so we can plug it in our systems?

Shane Kerr: We'll look into this.

Andre Kopal: For logging in for multiple LIRs it is great Thanks!!! One suggestion: the page you are in should stay the same when you switch from one registry to another.

Leo Vegoda:
I will pass the comment to the developers. Thank you.

H. RIPE NCC Training activities Rumy Kanis

Training Team members were introduced. Courses are described and a short report on what happened in 2003 is presented:

- LIR course: 47 given in 2003.
- Routing Registry (an advanced course) 11 given in 2003.
- DNSSec (an advanced course) 13 given in 2003.
- Tutorials and Seminars (these are open to all RIPE members)

In total 71 courses were delivered in 23 countries. Plans for training in 2004 are presented: ~80 courses are planned. Finally Rumy talked about developing training services.

Kurtis Lindqvist:
What are the other RIRs doing in regards of training?

Rumy Kanis:
APNIC and NCC are fairly similar. However, APNIC makes use of hosts. ARIN does not give training courses but provide CBT.

I. Routability testing Kurtis Lindqvist / Daniel Karrenberg

Kurtis Lindqvist:
There was a discussion on the NANOG list. When RIRs give out allocations, it is hard to see how far a new block propagates. Should RIPE NCC/the RIRs provide some kind of service so that there will be some testing statistics on new blocks' routability. Is this a good idea?

Leslie Nobile, ARIN:
With 70/8 we try to give a 90 days time frame before we use it. We have a volunteer who does the routability test and we should have the results soon.

John …:
I think this is a great idea and if there are tools available this is excellent.

Kurtis Lindqvist:
I think the RPE NCC should take this up.

J. Open mike session

Kurtis Lindqvist:
We had a discussion before this session to discuss what we can do in this WG. We had a few ideas how we can stimulate discussion and input from the community on this WG, get more people actively involved. Other WGs have to discuss what they think the RIPE NCC should do, then come to the Service WG on Thursdays and provide this information. One more idea is that the RIPE NCC goes through the Activity Plan and gives a status update during the Service WG.

RIPE NCC has a lot of information about routing and IP addresses availability. DNS is the same important but doesn't get the same attention.

Randy: There seems to be a confusion here. RIPE is not an overall Internet NOC. RIPE NCC is an address space registry. DNS is not in the scope of RIPE NCC. DNS is another part of the universe.

Kurtis Lindqvist:
The RIR function of the RIPE NCC comes out of the history, like Axel mentioned in one of his presentations it was not part of the initial activity plan.

We heard about training courses and one third is about DNS.

Randy Bush:
This is a basic philosophy question. We are back to distribution. There are folks out there doing DNS. We are mixing operations with administrative service.

Kurtis Lindqvist:
Has anyone any ideas on how we could better input/feedback from the community, how we can involve them more actively.

No further comments or questions.