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Anti-Abuse Working Group Minutes RIPE 76

17 May 2018, 11:00-12:30
WG co-Chairs: Brian Nisbet, Tobias Knecht
Scribe: Emile Aben
Status: Final

A. Administrative Matters

The video archive is online at:

The chairs welcomed the room, and addressed the administrative matters.

B. Update

B1. Working Group Chair Selection

Brian Nisbet was selected for another term as co-chair for this working group.

The video archive is online at:

B1. Recent List Discussion

The video archive is online at:

C. Policies

Brian summarised the discussions on the mailing list.

C1. 2017-02 Regular abuse-c Validation - Herve Clement (Orange), Sara Marcolla (Europol)

The video archive is available at:

There were no questions

C1. 2017-02 Regular abuse-c Validation - Marco Schmidt, RIPE NCC

The video archive is available at:

Alexander Isavnin (Internet Protection Society) asked for exact numbers and lacking these suggested to postpone decision.

Brian rejected this suggestion.

Julien Escario (Altinea) asked for more serious validations checks.

Brian said this was discussed already.

Jordi Palet Martinez (The IPv6 Company) considered starting a new policy proposal discussion, after this proposal reaching consensus, based on the proposal he submitted to other RIRs.

Piotr Strzyżewski (Silesian University of Technology, Computer Centre) asked about legacy resource holders.

Marco said legacy address space will not be part of this.

Piotr said email checking is tricky and used the example of putting [email protected] on arbitrary resources.

Brian said this was discussed on the mailing list.

Piotr said they will not know how much money this will cost.

Marco said that if 25% is incorrect, it will cause frustration to a lot of people.

Peter Koch (DENIC) asked for guarantees of the RIPE NCC's interpretation of the text and it not changing its mind.

Marco said the guarantee is in that things must be within the policy framework.

Peter Koch said the text allows for much harsher interpretation, and was not convinced this is good policy making.

Brian said that the RIPE NCC's interpretation at this point is as set as it can be.

Ruediger Volk (Deutsche Telekom) unravelled the discussion in three parts:

1) A technical question on how to validate email addresses, and he saw no obstacle on validating all contacts that are relevant
2) Consequences for incorrect email addresses
3) Fixing incorrect email addresses

Ruediger said fixing and checking emails could be considered a Database WG task, and was afraid that this work created the illusion of achievement.

Tobias Knecht (Abuseix) said 10-25% sounds a correct number for invalid mailboxes and he would be happy to write a proposal with Ruediger. Tobias added that the RIPE NCC is charged with running a clean and valid registry and legacy checking would also be no problem.

Brian summarised that no new information was brought to the discussion, and the proposal was still open for a few more days.

D. Interactions

D1. Global Abuse Community Updates -Tobias Knecht, Abuseix

The video archive is available at:

Ruediger asked about the schema language, and answered that JSON doesn't have a schema language.

Ruediger suggested creating a list of tools for creating data in this format.

Tobias said that keeping the JSON as simple as possible as abuse handling is in essence simple.

Ruediger said was interested in the results of this effort that could be easily tracked and expressed doubt about the need for a MIME type for this.

Tobias said the MIME type discussion took place in other fora.

Tobias said he will connect the community doing this to the Anti-Abuse Working Group community.

Ruediger said it's essential to provide pointers to tools that use this.

E. Presentations

E1. Internet Abuse by Russian LEAs -Alexander Isavnin, Internet Protection Society

The video archive is available at:

There were no questions.

X. A.O.B.

There were no AOBs.

Brian closed the session.