Chat Logs
Boris Duval
Hi everyone, I’m Boris Duval from the RIPE NCC. This chat panel is meant for discussion ONLY. If you have questions for the speaker, please write it in the Q&A window stating your name and affiliation. Otherwise, you can ask questions using the microphone icon.
(18:01:39)
Melchior Aelmans
You'll probably do well Remco :D
(18:02:56)
Ondrej Filip_265
It is great to have a Polish presenter, he can read my name properly. :-)
(18:06:21)
Melchior Aelmans
:D
(18:07:11)
Will van Gulik
could somone mute gwen temporarly ?
(18:09:27)
Brian Nisbet_536
Yes, was about to ask.
(18:09:33)
Sebastian Wiesinger
Can someone mute Gwen?
(18:09:33)
Will van Gulik
thanks ;)
(18:10:00)
Gwen van Berne
Sorry guys, one of my smoke detectors sponteneously started to make noise and in my response I think I pressed my sound on instead of off..
(18:16:53)
Melchior Aelmans
we only shortly heard it
(18:17:20)
Gwen van Berne
Meetecho buttons are still a bit new..
(18:17:24)
Melchior Aelmans
:D
(18:17:30)
Gwen van Berne
Apologies :-)
(18:17:36)
Serbulov Dmitry
".. please state your affiliation before asking the question. " what does it mean?
(18:23:36)
Denesh Bhabuta
hich company you are representing.
(18:23:56)
*which
(18:24:00)
Brian Nisbet_536
something like "Brian Nisbet - HEAnet"
(18:24:05)
Boris Duval
Exactly, thanks Denesh and Brian. Dmitry, could try again to send your question with your affiliation and name in the text? Many thanks!
(18:25:14)
Serbulov Dmitry
I already wroute it on my profile in A&Q! ? but
(18:25:56)
Moderator odes not see it?
(18:26:18)
Hans Petter Holen
Q&A is a completely separate system from the voice queue
(18:26:48)
Peter Koch
with the variety of jurisdictions the statement can be read as overly broad; is that certification justified by Dutch corporate law?
(18:28:14)
Toni Müller
Is this question limited to financial issues, and/or would it prevent someone from being able to stand for election? (Just asking - it's the first time I hear about any COC, anyway).
(18:28:45)
Boris Duval
Hi Peter and Toni, please write your question in the Q&A panel (icon with question mark) or ask your question using audio. Thank you!
(18:30:47)
Peter Koch
this is stronger than ICANN's due diligence, isn't it?
(18:30:58)
@Boris: thanks for the reminder, Q&A unavailable, but we can better take it to the list anyway
(18:31:20)
Toni Müller
Boris, the Q&A panel doesn't load for me. :(
(18:31:28)
Hans Petter Holen
No, ICANNs due diligence uses an indipendent investigator
(18:31:30)
Mirjam Kühne
@Toni, here is the RIPE Code of Conduct that was referred to: https://ripe81.ripe.net/attend/coc/
(18:31:44)
Hans Petter Holen
Then the NOMCOM must make a judgementcall
(18:31:47)
Peter Koch
@HPH: and the results are not made public
(18:31:57)
Hans Petter Holen
No
(18:32:04)
ICANN Nomcoms deliberations are not public. They get the report before the result is announced.
(18:32:30)
Herve Clement
Due Diligence is a pretty long and complete process
(18:32:42)
Mirjam Kühne
If the Q&A window doesn't work for you, you can click on "open in new Tab" and use RIPE81 as the code word.
(18:33:02)
Sergey Myasoedov
Peter, is self-certification stronger?
(18:34:17)
Herve Clement
For Due Diligence, that's the reason why we tried to put it in place the sooner as possible for the ICANN Board of Directors selection process (ASO)
(18:34:25)
Maximilian Wilhelm
What's "P&L"?
(18:44:12)
Rob Evans
Profit & Loss
(18:44:19)
Brian Nisbet_536
Profit & Loss
(18:44:20)
Maximilian Wilhelm
Thanks
(18:44:24)
Paul Boissel dombreval
I don't find the spike to be that big.
(18:44:44)
Maximilian Wilhelm
So the DB is probably running in the cloud of one member in the future?
(19:02:56)
Serbulov Dmitry
Sory, we come to listen o make questions?
(19:03:22)
Remco van Mook
just the public part, to be clear
(19:03:26)
Dmitry, I'll get to your questions after the presentation
(19:03:40)
Serbulov Dmitry
We have enouhth time?
(19:04:01)
Remco van Mook
we have as long as we need
(19:04:11)
Serbulov Dmitry
ok
(19:04:17)
Kaveh Ranjbar
@Maximilian that is only for increasing availability and resiliency. We will make sure we will have our own capacity to keep the core of the service alive, in case the cloud provider(s) are having issues.
(19:04:46)
Gwen van Berne
Dear Paul, last year showed record revenue numbers (48M) you are right that if we look at income in financial statement that spike is gone - because we take out the redistribution from those numbers.
(19:04:53)
Maximilian Wilhelm
Remco, Kaveh, thank you
(19:05:27)
Gwen van Berne
Revenue looks at all incoming funds. Sign up fee was 12M in 2019. This was unprecedented
(19:06:59)
Toni Müller
What does "move to the cloud" mean in the context of RIPE NCC? And what are we really expecting to get? I guess we should have a fairly steady load on infrastructure. If it means going to one of the big public cloud providers, which one(s) are they?
(19:07:51)
Sascha Luck
grrr... re*mun*eration
(19:08:57)
Boris Duval
Hi Toni, please write your question in the Q&A panel (icon with question mark) or please wait until the end of the talk and ask your question using audio. Thank you!
(19:09:12)
Kaveh Ranjbar
@Toni, really depends on the service. For example for Information Services like RIPE Atlas, we have huge datasets which can be provisioned much more efficiently in the cloud.
(19:09:32)
Toni Müller
Hi Boris! As I said, the Q&A piece of the website, and actually also the other small frames, don't load in my browser.
(19:10:07)
Pawel Worach
@Toni Q&A panel needs 3rd-party cookies
(19:10:21)
Toni Müller
They are just white rectangles.
(19:10:24)
Kaveh Ranjbar
On the other hand, I can not imagine we ever move our mailing lists to the cloud. There is a clear process to evaluate each service which would be considered to move to the cloud, to make sure we are not going to depend critically on an external party.
(19:10:36)
Boris Duval
@Toni, maybe try to open slido in another browser (https://www.sli.do/) and use RIPE81 as the event code.
(19:12:27)
Paul Boissel dombreval
I don't get what he has to upgrade to get IPv6 working...
(19:19:41)
Is he using 20 years old proprietary hardware?
(19:19:51)
hardware/software
(19:20:01)
Robert Scheck
I don't get the question behind it. Is it that the RIPE NCC focusses on to many non-related topics?
(19:20:08)
Sascha Lenz
Yes, obviously
(19:20:15)
(I think that's the same point as always, we've already heard that the last ... 10? GMs I think)
(19:20:46)
Toni Müller
@Boris: It's not working. So far, I have managed to get a prompt from them, asking for a meeting code.
(19:22:41)
Boris Duval
ok no problem, we will ask one of my colleagues to read it out for you. What's your affiliation?
(19:23:23)
Toni Müller
You mean, the LIR?
(19:23:54)
Boris Duval
yes exactly
(19:24:07)
Toni Müller
I'm from oeko.net (NCC-RegID de.oekonet).
(19:25:00)
Boris Duval
great, thanks Toni!
(19:25:12)
Toni Müller
I would say that asking employees to work from home in an effort to save on office cost, is basically "defrauding" the employees of a part of their salary, because now the employee has to pay for this space.
(19:29:38)
Wolfgang Zenker
I agree, but if employes want to work from home more of the time, this might result in lower office costs anyway
(19:33:22)
Hans Petter Holen
That is of course out of the question. One might however for-see more choice from the employee from where to work, within legal constraints such as labour law, tax, social security etc.
(19:33:22)
Serbulov Dmitry
can you give links for the texts of resolutions
(19:34:06)
Sascha Luck
IANATaxL but afaik that can be defrayed as expenses
(19:34:10)
Rob Evans
https://www.ripe.net/participate/me…ngs/gm/meetings/october-2020/agenda
(19:34:19)
Sascha Luck
ditto for the extra power usage
(19:34:39)
Hans Petter Holen
Tax also in context of which country.
(19:34:46)
Rob Evans
(Also the supporting documents linked from the left on that page.)
(19:34:48)
Hans Petter Holen
Additional costs regarding working from home has been raised by our Works Council, so we are working on a solution for this.
(19:36:04)
Peter Koch
thank!
(19:41:27)
"never" would include cases that go back to your youth ...
(19:43:00)
Toni Müller
This formulation is indeed extremely broad.
(19:43:10)
Robert Scheck
Yes, the *any* is misleading
(19:43:21)
Jan Zorz
is people that is against a rule about "never committed fraud" thinking about committing a fraud and running for the Board? :)
(19:44:16)
Toni Müller
But I am personally more concerned about any code-of-conducts, which have in the past been used to destroy other communities.
(19:44:33)
Paul Boissel dombreval
Well, the problem is that the corrupt government can get you convicted for fraud even if you have not done anything.
(19:44:43)
Sascha Luck
but a conviction is not even necessary
(19:45:18)
Jan Zorz
no, conviction is necessary
(19:45:37)
without conviction you are innocent
(19:45:46)
Paul Boissel dombreval
Also, what fraud?
(19:45:57)
Jan Zorz
accusation doesn't make you guilty
(19:45:58)
Sascha Luck
that wasn't the answer when I sked that earlier
(19:45:59)
Toni Müller
Also true. I am all in favour of candidates having to declare their stance in advance, but it should not prevent them from standing, and from being elected.
(19:46:04)
Peter Koch
but you'd still have to disclose?
(19:46:05)
Sascha Luck
they said the trusted contacs and/or the board decide guilt
(19:46:20)
Paul Boissel dombreval
For example, I've been convicted of sharing copies of copyrighted work, I can't be a candidate?
(19:46:47)
Peter Koch
and that govt issued statement goes back to earlier than 18 yrs of age?
(19:47:08)
Jan Zorz
trusted contacts decide guilt if the candidate broke the standard code of conduct during the RIPE meeting or on the mailing lists
(19:47:10)
Sascha Luck
Not every jurisdiction provdes these!
(19:47:13)
Ireland doesn't even have an official process for it
(19:47:41)
Jan Zorz
Sascha: that has nothing to do with fraud or financial misconduction
(19:47:50)
Peter Koch
indeed, liman, and the ability to get an unlimited certificate is restricted for very good reasons
(19:49:20)
Paul Boissel dombreval
I think that anyone should be free to be a candidate. If people vote for somebody who is blatantly a fraud, then that's the way it is.
(19:49:33)
Sascha Luck
audio q stopped working for me
(19:49:47)
Yuriy Bogdanov
Agree with Paul
(19:49:55)
Hans Petter Holen
In Norway I would need legal grounds for getting such a certificate, and it would not only be time limited but also specific for the purpose. Serving as a board member of the RIPE NCC is as far as I know not a legal ground to get a police certificate of good conduct.
(19:51:00)
Sascha Luck
fair point, preselecting candidates disempowers the electorate
(19:51:42)
Toni Müller
Nope. "Haste makes waste!"
(19:53:09)
Jan Kuipers
Also, these conduct certificates would probably have different criteria per jurisdiction
(19:53:20)
Admin Headlight
In Germany, you get a document, which covers issues but they are deleted after a certain period of time (excluding anything over 90*daily rate and you can apply for a copy
(19:53:30)
Jan Zorz
it's not perfect, but it's better than what we have now...
(19:53:51)
Sascha Luck
Disagree
(19:54:11)
Brian Nisbet_536
I certainly agree it's not perfect. :) There's lots of good work done by the TF, truly, it's the translation into the AoA in this way that I'm really worried about.
(19:54:24)
Toni Müller
This thing is imho much worse than what we have now.
(19:54:26)
Jan Zorz
Brian: maybe... it's a very cut-down version of what FT came up with :)
(19:55:10)
Peter Koch
the point is self-certification; if you fail to disclose an issue that would be privileged under your jurisdiction; by self-certifying, you're lyning to the electorate - so what do you do? This might be a bit over-engineered
(19:55:12)
Maximilian Wilhelm
I guess it would have been nice to have 3 resolutions for those three points (ID, CoC, legal)
(19:55:31)
Toni Müller
And I would also ask that the vote should be split: One for the CoC, one for the self-declaration, and one for what happens with the self-declaration.
(19:55:48)
Jan Zorz
Max: true...
(19:55:49)
Toni Müller
Not lump these unrelated things together.
(19:56:01)
Jan Zorz
agree
(19:56:25)
Hans Petter Holen
At this GM you can unfortunately only vote on what is on the published agenda.
(19:57:08)
Maximilian Wilhelm
I know. I guess take it as feedback for future resolutions :)
(19:57:30)
Admin Headlight
why cant you split it? the other way to combine 3 questions into 1 might be a problem...
(19:57:44)
Sascha Luck
so the only way is to vote against and take it up again nerxt GM
(19:57:49)
Maximilian Wilhelm
The voting is already open
(19:57:55)
Peter Koch
the ID issue should be solved without touching the AoA
(19:58:00)
Sascha Luck
says clsed for me :p
(19:58:15)
*closed
(19:58:21)
Paul Boissel dombreval
Maximilian: not here.
(19:58:28)
Sascha Luck
vote early, vote often
(19:58:51)
Peter Koch
agree with Liman
(19:59:12)
Maximilian Wilhelm
+1
(19:59:19)
Pavel Zavada
+1
(19:59:20)
Toni Müller
I also agree with Liman
(19:59:21)
Brian Nisbet_536
Well, we all get to vote on that now! :)
(19:59:32)
Turn our +1s into definite votes.
(19:59:50)
Peter Koch
well, we learned that '+1' is consensus building, not voting ;-)
(20:00:16)
Sascha Luck
meh, turnout gone down again
(20:00:26)
Brian Nisbet_536
:P
(20:00:28)
Anders Mundt Due
wonder what would happen if politicians had the same rigorous rules for getting a position
(20:03:40)
Sascha Luck
they do in many places
(20:03:55)
Jan Zorz
we would have no politicians... :)
(20:03:59)
is that good or bad? :)
(20:04:06)
Sascha Luck
plus they have to declare their financial situation
(20:04:15)
that's a hard one ;D
(20:06:03)
Jan Zorz
they do
(20:07:42)
in my country - yes :)
(20:07:48)
and then all the changes of financial situation ;)
(20:08:02)
Denesh Bhabuta
Where is the Whiskey BoF?
(20:08:06)
Erik Bais
Thank you all for the GM.
(20:08:08)
Denesh Bhabuta
Thank you all
(20:08:14)
Erik Bais
Denesh : on Spatial. ;)
(20:08:19)
Wessel Sandkuijl
Thanks all
(20:08:23)
Piotr Strzyżewski
@Denesh Spatial
(20:08:23)
Toni Müller
Can you please display the overview slide for the three further resoltions?
(20:08:24)
Sebastian Becker
Thank you!
(20:08:24)
Denesh Bhabuta
What time? Now?
(20:08:25)
Will van Gulik
thanks everyone !
(20:08:25)
Joachim Ernst
Thanks
(20:08:26)
Matthieu Herrb
thank you.
(20:08:26)
Rob Evans
TTFN people, thanks for an interesting GM!
(20:08:27)
James Kennedy
Thanks all
(20:08:27)
Boris Duval
This session has now ended. Tomorrow, we will start Day Three with the Anti-Abuse WG session at 10:00 (UTC+1) – see you there!
(20:08:28)