Minutes

Minutes: Asha Raghoebarsing & Sabine Mader

1. Opening by the Chairman

The Chair welcomed the attendees to the RIPE 40 Meeting in Prague.

2. Agenda

The RIPE 40 participants approved the agenda.

3. Minutes RIPE 39

The minutes were approved.

4. From the Chair

The Chair introduced Jan Gruntorad, director of Cesnet, -who is the local host of RIPE 40. Jan Gruntorad gave a short overview on the history of 10 years Internet in Prague.

Due to technical problems the presentation could not be shown, but will be available on the web at www.cesnet.net.

5. Operational Report from The RIPE NCC

The total of members is expected to be 3000 by the end of the year.

Staffing: There is a split in the policy and operational work between Nurani Nimpuno and Sabrina Waschke.

Status wait queue: As this was a main issue during the last meeting, the RIPE NCC can announce that this has decreased to less than 5 days. It went from highest in April to lowest in September. The RIPE NCC will keep observing and analysing the situation. "Our goal is to keep improving the tools".

The IPv6 new policy is under revision.

Please see the presentation by Axel Pawlik:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-40/presentations/ripenccstatus/index.html

6. Review on RIPE NCC Processes by Rob Blokzijl

Rob Blokzijl described the global policy development process:

Proposal in one region
Co-ordination with other regions
Possible further refinement and review
This process decreases discrepancies between regional policies (more and more policies globally applicable), but also increases time it takes to develop policy
A document to describe and clarify this process will be forthcoming

Compared to the situation of 1.5 years ago, the RIPE NCC is on the right track.

Daniel Karrenberg volunteered to write a primer on processes.

7. Report from Other RIR's

Report from APNIC

Members: The total of members has increased to almost 700. The growing areas for IPv4 are Japan, Korea and China. Japan is also the main country for IPv6 requests.

Staffing: There was a small re-structure and some shifting

New product: Online membership process has been developed.

There were many new policy developments in the region which can be found on the web.

Report from ARIN

Members: The total of members is currently 1604 of which 1514 in North America.

Staffing: There are changes in the business structure. Also new members for the board of trustees and the executive board will be elected. The turn around time is still less than 2 days.

Training: new trainingprogramms are being set up for the area. (this will be available on the web shortly)

8. Reports from emerging RIR's: LACNIC and AfriNIC

Report from AfriNIC

Currently there is regional interest in AfriNIC. With assistance of APNIC, RIPE NCC and ARIN, AfriNIC hopes to analyse how to reach the ISP's. The presentation by Mouhamet Diop can be found at www.afrinic.org. Information about network operation group can be found at www.afnog.org

Rob Blokzijl commented that the RIPE NCC is ready to start with supporting AfriNIC..

No representative from LACNICwas present at RIPE 40. The Chair has been at the meeting of Brasilnic which provides the core for the future LACNIC and this was impressive.

Conclusion: they are on the right track.

9. Joint RIR statistics

The presentation was given by Nurani Nimpuno:

The statistics on the current situation:

IANA has devided the space in 5% ARIN, 4% RIPE NCC and 2% APNIC.
Unlocated space at IANA is still 37%.

The total of addresses at RIPE NCC is: 20.058.624

The biggest growth in address allocation at RIPE NCC is between 1999-2001 and estimated to be 40.000.000 at year end 2001.

For further details about the presentation please visit:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-40/presentations/global-rir-stats/index.html

Questions from the audience:

Frode Greisen: 52% Allocated: reclaiming addresses:52% the most unused address space. Should we not start with cleaning in this area and on short notice?

Nurani: there are some talks going on in other regions , but this is not the case here.

Chair: there is no serious worry at this time, but of course there will be cleaning up the next couple of years.

Bill Manning: unallocated: we re-claimed 25% of the address space.

Daniel Karrenberg: just a clarification to Bill: Nicely ask people to return the unused space. Hopefully this method can be implemented in all regions and can be seen as the agreed method to follow.

The Chair gave an overview on the history of the RIPE NCC.The RIPE NCC was created initially to provide co-ordination servicesand not as a registration site. Since the start 10 years ago there have been major changes. Today we get input from the RIPE meeting and activities around this meeting. The basics of the policy has to be clear to all.

Comments from the audience:

Daniel Karrenberg: Added that the community still has the right to explain the unhappiness about a new created document. This was the result of the co-operative thinking of the RIR's.

Chair: confirmed the statement of Daniel Karrenberg.

Randy Bush: if a policy becomes global,is there actually then one registry?

Chair: there will always be differences, nevertheless global consensus is part of the process.

Wilfried Woeber: to avoid issues on this item in the future: to make the process effective and shorter there are only 3 RIR's involved in this procedure.

10. ICANN report

Rob Blokzijl expressed that there were no senior staff present to give a report. He welcomed Herbert Vitztum and specially John Crain to this meeting.

Rob had observed, after the terrible events of September 11, that everything broke down, but the Internet continued working. It was a demonstration of what we always said.

The received request from ICANN is known: How to secure the Internet structure? Only to be involved with own areas.

A second question is: what is the new role of ICANN in the Internet world?

Comments from the Audience:

Keith Mitchell: ICANN is in danger of falling into a trap: they seem to forget what the NNs in ICANN stand for: they stand for names and numbers and not for the infrastructure. Making ICANN responsible for securing the internet is a very slippery slope. They should concentrate on things like root server system and other things that they don't seem to get to. Particularly John has been working hard to improve ICANNs technical infrastructure, they should concentrate on things like this.

Randy Bush: ICANN perceives itself as responsible for the internet, including all kinds of aspects. Apparently also the developments and deployment of DNSSEC.

Lars-Johann Limann: concurs. Administrative parts should be open and can be quickly implemented by the technical community. Technical details should be pushed to the RSSAC and ICANN should be listening to this group.

Daniel Karrenberg: agrees with Keith Mitchell. Is concerned that the events of Sep 11 could be used by people to do things in the name of security that actually would make things less secure. Root servers seem to be the target for these people these days. It is actually a very stable and secure system. The feature of it is that it is very distributed. In some of the recent discussions people have advocated a central control of the root server system. He advocates that any changes to this system should be evaluated very carefully.

Randy Bush: it might be constructive for ICANN to get e.g. contact details for ccTLD on the web correctly and possible to update without going through the US Government.

Herbert Vitztum: agrees. ICANN needs to recognise that the ccTLDs have been operating independently in a very professional and stable way. There is no immediate need for action.

Frode Greisen: what if one of the RIRs or ICANN stop to perform (e.g. being hit by a bomb)? ICANN should operate independently and not look too much on the opinion that it runs the Internet. This is not the case. ICANN needs to become independent from the US Government.

Randy Bush: even though he thinks this is not within the scope of ICANN he wants to point out that the Internet is exceedingly vulnerable. There are many things that we operators could do, but are not doing.

Frode Greisen: again, ICANN does not operate the internet.

Rob Blokzijl: again this shows that this is nothing ICANN can improve, these are the operators responsibilities.

The Chairman thanked everybody for their input and promised to make sure that it will be brought to the attention of the ICANN staff and the ICANN board at the next ICANN meeting.

11. Transfer of Pre-RIR Address Space

The presentation provided by Ray Plzak will be available shortly.

12. Address Council Elections

Rob Blokzijl gave a short description of the structure of the Address Council and the election process.

Hans Petter Holen re-elected: Hans Petter Holen, Technical Manager of Tiscali AS, was elected for another 3 year term to the ASO Address Council at the elections held at the RIPE 40 plenary. Hans Petter is currently the Chair of the RIPE LIR-WG.

13. Measuring Routing Table Growth

Randy analysed where the growth is coming from: ISP's should have multihoming for their clients. Filtering is the magic word.

The presentation by Randy Bush can be found at http://www.research.att.com

Conclusion: a lot of support for multihoming.

14. Routing developments in the IETF/IRTF: Abha Ahuja &Philip Smith.

This presentation will soon become available.

15. Reports from the WG's

Database working group, Wilfried Woeber

Further details can be found at http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/db/index.html

A mailing list is available: irrtoolset@ripe.net

and it is meant to focuse all sorts of discussions with regard to the maintenance and possibly the extension of the functionality of IRR toolset.

The IRR toolset is the new label that was attached to what we usually know as RA toolset and just for the records: the old alias is still there and points to the new one.

There were no questions.

DNS working group, Ruediger Volk

For further information please visit: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/dns/index.html

There were no questions.

Routing working group, Joao Silva Damas

Minutes: RIPE 40

chaired for Joachim Schmitz who could not attend the meeting

Please note:

A mailing list has been created and is hosted by the RIPE NCC: RPSLNG@ripe.net

Minutes: RIPE 40

There were no questions.

16. Next meetings

The next meetings are:

RIPE 41: Amsterdam 14th January - 18th January
RIPE 42: Amsterdam 29th April - 3th May
RIPE 43: Rhodes 9th September - 13th September

For suggestions for a venue in 2003, please contact the RIPE NCC: meeting@ripe.net

17. AOB

None.

18. Meeting close

Rob thanked the RIPE NCC for a very successful organisation of the RIPE meeting.

Rob sincerely thanked the RIPE 40 sponsors:

Neulevel/.BIZ
Cesnet
PacketExchange
Cisco Systems
Czech Telekom