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Vienna, 4th - 7th May 1999
Plenary Session

Chair: Rob Blokzijl
Scribe: Naomi de Bruyn

1. Opening

RIPE chair Rob Blokzijl welcomed the participants to the 33rd RIPE meeting.

2. Agenda

One agenda item was added: Rob was pleased that Paul Wilson, from the APNIC in Australia, agreed to give a report on APNIC operations during the plenary session. The agenda was then approved.

3. Minutes RIPE 32

The minutes of the plenary session of RIPE 32 were approved.

4. From the Chair

5. Reports from the RIPE NCC (Mirjam Kuehne)

The RIPE NCC Status presentation can be found at:


Hostcount: Mirjam reported that the RIPE NCC has completed the hostcount revision to include all top level domains in RIPE NCC region. She reported a higher growth in the number of new Local IRs since the status report provided at the RIPE 32 meeting in January 1999. Since January 1999, the RIPE NCC has secured contracts with 230 new members which is almost twice the amount than projected. Mirjam noted that this trend will be monitored closely so that action can be taken to cope with the growth, should this trend continue.


The month of March 1999 was a peek period with more than 300.000 updates made in the RIPE database.

Registration Services

Due to many factors, the response time to tickets issued has increased. The hostmaster team is working very hard to return to a response time of 2-3 days.

Minor policy changes were made to align the policies of the RIPE NCC with the other regional registries. These changes have been distributed via email to the RIPE NCC membership and the appropriate RIPE working groups.

A 'Frequently Asked Questions' document has been written for new registries. The document is designed to provide answers to some of the questions that new registries may have about their first address space request. The document can be found at

The RIPE NCC has introduced and enforced stricter policies with regards to billing. This procedure has been clarified to the RIPE NCC members.


Mirjam reported that several suggestions for editorial changes to the IPv6 document have been received. The document has been approved by the RIPE IPv6 working group and the respective constituencies in the other regions. The next step is to submit the document to IANA for approval, the NCC will also request address space, however the formal administration is still unclear. The draft can be found on the RIPE NCC website at:


Progress has been made with regards to the database re-implementation process. The basic scheme was agreed and laid out during the Database working group session.

The database consistency project is moving forward. A full-time employee has been assigned to the consistency project. More information about this can be found on the RIPE NCC website at:

The RIPE NCC will work to combine the current RPSL tutorials with the LIR training course. RPSL will become part of the LIR training course with a planned launch in September 1999. Both courses, however, will be set up so that they can be offered separately when needed.

Test Traffic

A brief description of the current status of the Test-Traffic project was given. The measurement network has been extended and progress has been made with the analysis of the data.

The most important new analysis result was the comparison of measurements by the RIPE NCC and Advanced Networks and Systems. Both projects implement the IETF-IPPM drafts describing delay and loss measurements and should therefore produce identical results. This was tested by exchanging measurement machines and comparing the data taken over a period of several months. The outcome of this analysis showed that both experiments measure the same effects and that the results are consistent with each other. This is an extremely important step in the verification of the results of the Test-Traffic Project.

Current information about the Test Traffic project and the presentation delivered at the RIPE 33 meeting can be found at

RIR Coordination

The registries continue to work on coordination efforts and as a result have agreed on several operational policy alignments. The RIPE NCC has been working with APNIC (RIPE NCC staff worked temporarily at APNIC) to facilitate a mutual understanding of challenges and operating procedures. The RIPE NCC has also participated in membership meetings of ARIN and APNIC. Two colleagues from ARIN and one from APNIC participated in the plenary session of the RIPE 33 meeting.

At the close of her presentation, Mirjam reported that the first ever published RIPE NCC Annual Report was ready for distribution. A printed version will be posted to all RIPE NCC members and will be available on the RIPE NCC website at

Questions to the RIPE NCC:

Q: are there any figures on how many LIRs have left the RIPE NCC?
A: Mirjam answered that we have not closed that many registries. The main reason to close a registry, is when they do not pay their bills. This has not happened that often yet. Another reason for closure is when registries go out of business. Mirjam did not have the exact figures on closed registries with her. She reported that these figures will be presented at the RIPE 34 meeting.

Mike Norris wanted to give an additional figure in this context: the number of registries is now in 1000's. Worth remembering that since when we've last met the number of domains has now gone to over a million. Domain objects in the database have increased with almost 50%. This is also because many objects in the database are related to domain objects.

Daniel Karrenberg addressed the participants with a few words related to the RIPE NCC and his present function as General Manager. He informed everyone present that he has decided to step down as the RIPE NCC General Manager. Daniel stated that the reason for stepping down from the position is personal and family related. Daniel would like to remain involved with the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board has taken this into account. He stated that the RIPE NCC should intensify new technical developments such as the Test Traffic project. This is an area of interest for Daniel in the RIPE NCC.

Daniel expressed his thanks to several people in the RIPE community. He has seen the NCC grow from 3 people to more then 50. Daniel thanked all the RIPE NCC staff past and present, for all their effort and good spirit. He also thanked Rob, who has been chairing the RIPE meetings for 10 years. The ten year anniversary will take place during the RIPE 34 in Amsterdam. He thanked Rob for his support and guidance over the years. Daniel also thanked the Executive Board, he realises that even though they have demanding day-jobs they take their board tasks very seriously.

Finally, he also expressed thanks to the RIPE community as a whole for their support, especially those people who have taken the time to chair working groups and/or write documents and provide input to the RIPE NCC. He closed by saying that the RIPE NCC will be represented by a new General Manager at the RIPE 34 meeting.

Daniel briefly explained the efforts of the Executive Board in appointing his successor. The RIPE NCC Executive Board are currently engaged in recruiting a replacement for the RIPE NCC General Manager position. The Executive Board have taken slow and deliberate steps and are following the procedures outlined in the statutes. The Executive Board have made very sure that the selection process remains with them.

6. Report from APNIC (P. Wilson)

The APNIC has recently undergone quite a few changes. Paul Wilson has succeeded David Conrad as Director General of the APNIC. The APNIC office has relocated from Tokyo, JP to Brisbane, AU. The growth of the membership has decreased in the past months, which is largely due to economic issues in the APNIC region.

Consumption, which has been slow for the past few years, is expected to increase from now on. The major countries that are being served by APNIC are: Australia, China, Japan, Hong Kong, Korea and Taiwan.

Paul Wilson provided more details with regards to the secretariat relocation from Tokyo, JP to Brisbane, AU. He also reported that the relocation did not disrupt the services provided to the APNIC membership.

APNIC has gone from 4 1/2 staff to a current count of 11. They have held a members survey results were positive.

APNIC has been working hard developing general policy documentation for its operations as well as contributing to the production of policy documents together with the other Regional Registries. The APNIC is currently introducing a training programme to its membership, focusing on the APNIC procedures. This course is similar to the LIR course provided by the RIPE NCC.

APNIC will continue to do a lot of work on documents and translations are very important due to language barriers and the demands of members in the APNIC areas. With regards to technical services they are closely looking at the current and planned activities of the RIPE NCC. Paul expressed his thanks to the NCC for having provided short term staff from the RIPE NCC to assist with APNIC operations.

Paul Wilson added that the APNIC is currently reviewing its membership fee structure which was initially proposed to the APNIC members in March of this year. Rob asked if the new charging scheme in development is also copied to address space consumption and if an ageing scheme is in place. Paul replied with saying that this particular question has not been raised by the membership thus far. They will be mixing it and historical allocations will be taken into account.


A - Current Status of ICANN (R. Blokzijl)

Rob noted that RIPE has been very involved in the Address Supporting Organisation. This has been discussed for the past 6 months, it has been discussed in depth and at length. A few new developments in this area have taken place between RIPE 32 and 33 meetings.

B - Progress with the Address Supporting Organisation (ASO)

1. Report from the ARIN/ASO meeting (M. Kuehne)

+ Report from the IETF/ASO meeting

Mirjam reported that during the IETF meeting in Minneapolis there was a good open discussion. A few principles have been laid down that were seen as significant for the creation of an ASO.

Another ASO meeting was held in conjunction with the ARIN members meeting which was held in Atlanta.

Mirjam provided a summary of issues discussed at the ARIN meeting first. This meeting marked the first time that ARIN had working group meetings. During this meeting the address allocation policy working group and the database working group met. These are organised very much like the RIPE working groups. At the membership meeting and the advisory council meeting it was decided to create a few more working groups:

During the RIPE 32 plenary session discussions on the ICANN process it was felt that in the ARIN region the structures and processes were not as open and as transparent as in the other regions. The members have discussed this issue and concluded to have open meetings to discuss policy. It was also decided that the minutes of these meetings will be published on the ARIN website.

Another proposal suggests that organisations that receive registration services from ARIN automatically become members of ARIN. Mirjam was not certain if this was decided yet as the decision needed to be passed through the ARIN Board. It was noted that supporting this proposal could help to further stabilise ARIN. ARIN would like to see its membership participate in the discussions and give more support to the ARIN structures.

During the ASO meeting in Atlanta a few ASO models were presented. Most of the attendees supported the simple model where the communities are represented through the regional registries in the ASO.

The next step is to work further on an ASO proposal. There was a discussion to commission someone to facilitate this process. There will be 2 more ICANN meetings, one in Berlin (May 1999) and one in Santiago (August 1999). The RIPE NCC will actively participate in the meetings.

+ Report from the RIPE NCC Board (K. Mitchell)

Keith Mitchell provided a summary from the RIPE NCC Executive Board with regards to ICANN. He noted that he attended another ASO meeting held in Singapore, on behalf of the RIPE NCC.

Keith expressed that the board believes a facilitator is needed for the ICANN process. This process is extremely time consuming. The idea is to contract someone who can devote the necessary time for this activity. It is important to maintain initiative and continuity.

The person contracted for this task must be able to devote at least half of their time to this, for a period of 6 months although it could be longer. Keith stresses that the individual is required to know the industry as well as governance issues. The problem is that the people involved in the industry and governance issues are often too busy for the task at hand.

Keith asked the meeting participants to please suggest and/or nominate an individual who could carry this responsibility for the Regional Registries. The facilitator would have to participate in both the ICANN and Regional Registry meetings. He/she must also monitor the discussions on the mailinglists and continue liase with the ICANN board. The members of the Regional Registries are also participating in this activity and we currently have an ASO discussion list to track issues and report on progress. Keith also noted that too much time should not be wasted on writing formal documents, as was the case in the domain name supporting organisation. We must concentrate on outlining the principles and then produce a document.

C - Presentation on Guiding Principles (R. Blokzijl)

See document by G. Houston:

With regards to document preparation, Rob also believes that the correct way to produce them is to first agree on the principles and only then translate these into a document. Consensus must be reached on the principles first.

A draft document exists which has been put together by Geoff Houston a member of the APNIC Executive Council. It is based on discussions which took place during the ICANN meetings discussed above as well as a previous meeting held in Singapore. The principles are simple but fundamental in nature:

First of all we should very consciously find out who the players are. Naturally there are the Regional Registries with their members, they are a very important players, but we should identify any other legitimate players in the IP address policy issues.

Policies should not be confused with politics. It must be possible for good policies to be implemented.

Any policies put in place should recognise that the existing Regional Registry structure has proven to be strong and robust. We are not going to invent something we do not need.

We should keep in mind that we need time to work on things so that we can develop good policies. We should not confuse the time frame with the DNSO time frame. They have urgent problems that need resolving and they have nothing in place yet. We already have a good structure in place and significantly less problems.

Open processes are important and a part of the discussion is on how to implement an open process. There seems to be consensus and understanding of the fact that the current Regional Registries are open. For instance: RIPE meetings are not only open to NCC members, they are open to anyone who wants to attend. We cannot be more open than that. This has been acknowledged by the community, but also by the current interim ICANN Board of Directors.

D - Questions & Discussions

A question was raised about the 2 proposals which have been made with regards to representation (regional registries versus the at large membership of ICANN). This is a point of contention.

Rob noted that what we have reached is a broad understanding that the at large members, as far as address space is concerned, is best represented through the Regional Registries.

It was pointed out that during the ARIN/ASO meeting Michael Schneider, president of Euro ISPA (representing 300 European ISPs), stated that this did not represent his ideas. During the same meeting someone from CIX said it did not represent their needs either.

Rob replied stating that these persons were not present in the RIPE 33 meeting and could have joined to the meeting to voice their position. We have a much wider representation and are only concerned with the address space issue, whereas the Euro ISPA organisation has a much broader working area.

Rob said he realises that there are groups that have a slightly different view. Keith and Rob offered to come to the membership meeting of Euro ISPA, but was told that they had an overloaded agenda. Rob reported that he had the feeling this item was not very high on their list of priorities. He again stressed that we are open, and that he hopes and expects that the organisation will be represented at the ASO meeting, which will take place in Berlin.

Randy Bush noted that if the CIX executive has taken a position on this, they did so without informing the CIX membership. The majority of the members know nothing of this.

Keith stressed that this is a big obstacle. There is a representation war between the existing Regional Registries and a couple of trade associations. There have been some suggestions that these associations are acting without authority and possibly there exist counter allegations as well.

Keith stated that, if a member of Euro ISPA, CIX or a Regional Registry, the best way to secure the set up of a stable ASO is to tell the organisations whether you do or do not want these organisations to represent you in this process. He added that if any members do not want the RIPE NCC to represent them that they should please state this. Keith stressed that the RIPE NCC is receptive to comments on this issue and he hoped the others organisations are as well.

Rob reminded the participants that in the Euro ISPA, the majority of ISPs in Europe are not allowed to join in. Only ISPs based in the European Union are eligible for membership.

Rob stated that he was aware of this ongoing discussion but that it cannot be properly discussed if the organisations in question are not present. Rob concluded by stating that the RIPE NCC provides a fair representation, but it does not claim to be the only one or the complete one. Everyone is welcome to be a part of it.

E - Conclusions & Next Steps

The RIPE NCC proposition is to start looking for a facilitator, someone who has good knowledge of the general issues and/or the technical issues and has not been part of the recent discussions. This person should act as an impartial facilitator. If you feel you are eligible or know someone who is, please contact either Keith or Rob.

The RIPE NCC Executive Board has agreed to commit the funds necessary to facilitate the project. It will be a project that the Board hopes the other Regional Registries will also want to be part of. Keith was pleased to announce that the APNIC have already agreed to support the project and hopefully ARIN will as well.

8. Transatlantic Cables: from retail to wholesale (D. Bovio)

9. Reports from the RIPE Working Groups

The chairs from the various working groups provided reports on the working group meetings that were held earlier in the week. Summaries of the meetings provided by the working group chairpersons are included here in the text to follow. Full minutes of the working groups will be published on the RIPE NCC Website at

Routing WG

Minutes: RIPE 33

Chair: Joachim Schmitz
Attendees: 74
Scribe: Roman Karpiuk


  • Status Report: RPS Standards & Drafts (Cengiz Alleattinoglu)
  • Report from the NCC (JLS Damas)
  • RPSL Transition: Issues and Progress (JLS Damas)
  • Reports from other registries
  • Overview (D. Kessens)
  • RADB (A. Ahuja)
  • Interesting Internet Developments (A. Ahuja)
  • Multicast Developments (K. Kayser)


  • 29.R1 Definition/AUP of Internet Routing Registry (IRR)
  • 31.R1 IPv6 IRR
  • 32.R1 Document Issues related to transition RIPE 181 -> RPSL
  • 32.R2 Consistency Check IRR

DBsec TF

Chair: Joachim Schmitz
Attendees: 10
Scribe: Joao Damas


  • IETF


  • prefix/origin authentication (G. Winters)
  • rps-auth
  • core: prefix/origin auth
  • non-core: (no) reclaim

A question was raised with regards to the Database security task force; do we still have a mandate from the community to keep this task force? Shall we close it down? Requests for additional input will be sent to the maillinglist of the working groups. Participants were asked provide their input to be discussed at the next RIPE meeting.


Minute: RIPE 33

Chair: Hans Petter Holen
Attendees: 68
Scribe: Paul Tate

Action points LIR-WG RIPE 32

  • DONE: NCC: Web interface to RIPE-141
    - Announce, receive comments, and make source public
  • DONE: NCC: write up suggestion on lowering AW from /19
  • DONE: Guy Davies, UUnet: Start discussion on list on max allocation size and internal aggregation needs for large networks
  • DONE: NCC: make pretty address statistics charts
  • DONE: NCC: IP addresses to cable networks
    - Document current IANA policy and align practice with other IRRs
  • Everybody: Participate in policies for IPv6 discussion
  • OPEN: tagging of IP addresses for anti-SPAM
    Tagging IP addresses for anti SPAM measures
  • presentation on how the Dialup User List implemented by Paul Vixie works:
  • A discussion on the usefulness of adding mechanisms to the RIPE database took place
  • Daniel Karrenberg proposed a more general mechanism that would solve this and other needs
  • Passed on to the db wg


Chair: Ruediger Volk

The DNS working group started of their session with reports from NCC, delivered by Mirjam Kuehne. In response to two action items from the last time, RIPE NCC had been asked to do a little bit of operational statistics to see the impact of missing delegations and bad delegations in the reverse domain mapping. Lee wilmot grepped out some statistics from the DNS servers run by the NCC. Half of the load was due to problems in the delegations. We couldn't figure out what this means during this meeting. We will be analyzing the data provided by the NCC further on.

The RIPE NCC had also been asked to check the current policy documents, whether they could be enhanced to include stronger encouragement for doing the reverse mapping correctly. We were told that the forthcoming updated documents will include enhancements in this direction.

After the reports from NCC, Lars-Johan Liman provided some reports about DNS related sessions at the last IETF meeting. Randy Bush also gave a few hints about what's going on there. For the next agenda item we checked the status of the documents we have been working on, unfortunately the publication has not progressed as planned. A very short SOA recommandation paper will be published distributed in final form by Peter Koch. The dummies guide which Lars has been working on probably has been distributed in the final form this week. Collecting more items and issues for larger best practise is still open. SOA and dummies are supposed to be final.

These papers have been discussed in context of IETF meeting as well and there has not been any requests for substantial changes so its only a little bit of editorial stuff. We had opened the question of DNSSEC of the availability of security functionality and DNS in particular. Security in the way of securing the authenticy of DNS data, we had the intention to collect material and check out what work plan the working group should develop in this area. The result was this: the TLD-wg told us that there is lots of interest but no specific input for requirements. On the other hand the collection of items and issues within the DNS-wg did not give much material at this point in time. However there is supposed to be a small workshop in the near future in Sweden and we expect to get substantial input back from that event.

Checking how we expect the DNSSEC to progress, it looks like it will take some time until we have real implementations that are ready for being used by normal administrators, so the progress will be rather slow. We will be monitoring this and get back to you during the next meeting.

At the end we had Fernando Garcia present a sketch of a draft document that he has started working on which is supposed to help administrators with detailed advice on how to process DNS when they have to renumber or change providers and change the DNS delegations in this context. It seems that this kind of issue is a problem for a couple of parties, so having someone or a small group create a document that gives advice and help seems to be of interest and a good idea. However, at the current time the reported document is a sketch and we are looking for people to read this and comment on it and we have to check next time whether this will make progress within the working group and within RIPE.


Minutes: RIPE 33 - Draft TLD WG Minutes

Chair: Niall O'Reilly
Attendees: 33
Scribe: Maldwyn Morris
No. of ccTLDs represented: 9

Current Actions

TLD-32.1 [Chair]
Update Workplan
Part done; kept open; follow up on list.

TLD-32.2 [Chair]
Determine DNS-SEC plans and need for support from DNS-WG
No registries have advised Chair of plans to implement DNS-SEC. A couple have indicated that guidance from DNS-WG would be welcome. One has indicated that preparatory study is in progress.

TLD-32.3 [Chair]
Advise DB-WG of number of registries planning to use RIPE whois code
Nine registries are either using or considering using the code.

TLD-32.4 [Philippe Renaut]
Present NIC-FR directory work at Vienna

TLD-32.5 [Mike Norris]
Co-ordinate review of RIPE-152
Agreed: review of RIPE-152 is not necessary at this time.
Closed as OBE

HARMONIC: Directory Service of NIC.FR
Presentation by Philippe Renaut.

HARMONIC web front-end supports query by (partial) domain name, business area or geographical location with multilingual presentation. Architecture provides for access to multiple, distributed databases.

Question: are other registries prepared to make their data available in pilot project using HARMONIC interface ?


CENTR Update
Presentation by Fay Howard.

RIPE-CENTR Project winding down.
CENTR to incorporate in England and to locate in Oxford.
Fay Howard appointed as General Manager.
CENTR will be recruiting: technical and administrative staff.
Technical workshop planned with RIPE-34.


Presentation by Fay Howard.

Paris, BMW, Singapore.
CENTR participation in consensus-building.
DNSO Formation, Constituencies and General Assembly.
Inaugural Meetings in Berlin later this month.


New Actions

TLD-33.1 [Chair]
Provide minutes for RIPE-32 TLD-WG.

TLD-33.2 [Chair]
Obtain information from registries on plans for continued dependency on RIPE DB for domain objects.

[ Notes added after the closing plenary session:

Feedback during the plenary suggests that I have expressed this action item far too tersely for clarity.

Several issues arise here: the large number of domain objects in the RIPE DB, authority for these objects and appropriateness of this location for them, quality of data in these objects, possibility of distributing data among several databases, coherency of operational contact data, single point of initial reference, control of access to the data, data privacy, and possible differences in policy among registries.

These issues need to be discussed in co-ordination with DB WG, next requirements determined, and corresponding resources identified.

-- Niall O'Reilly ]

TLD-33.3 [Chair]
Request information from registries on whether they are prepared to make their data available for pilot project using HARMONIC interface.

TLD-33.4 [Chair]
Place Future Direction of TLD-WG on Agenda for RIPE-34 and stimulate preparatory discussion on mailing list.

TLD-33.5 [All]
Contribute to workplan discussion on mailing list.

Question from Mike Norris relating to the maintenance of domain objects in the RIPE database. Question: would it be possible to broaden that and make a copy on the database working group? The people might have comments on that. Niall is keeping in close contact with Wilfried Woeber on that.

Dfk is concerned 32.2 is formulated in the sense of dependency might be a broader issue on RIPE in general. What does the group think about this. It does not just concern CENTR or the TLD working group. Wilfried Woeber noted that we seem to be moving into new field. We were forced to start thinking about the logical relationship of where certain data is stored. Who is supposed to store the data who is supposed to provide some rubber stamping to certain data. His feeling is that we have to identify and technically describe the problem first, this is a new issue. There are 3 different sets of data in the big database in Amsterdam, namely IP, routing, and domain data. The quality of the information differs depending on which set it originates from. This has to be discussed during the next meeting. What and who will work on this?


Chair: David Kessens
Attendees: 100+
Scribe: Petra Zeidler

The IPv6 draft policy document was presented and discussed. The draft can be found on the RIPE NCC website at

The IPv6 working group approved the policies outlined in the document, however further work is need to complete the document.

The IPv6 tutorial as given on Tuesday, 4 May 1999 will be repeated at some point later on. David Kessens stated that this pointer will be in the minutes of the IPv6 working group session and posted to the ripe-list.

Presentation Jan Czmok:


  • The RIPE NCC is to submit the IPv6 policy document to IANA and request address space.


Chair: Fearghas Mckay
Attendees: 45
Scribe: Chris Fletcher

last time asked for Y2K so it is on the agenda


3 Czech - Boris ?

aug 1996
8 Founding members
now 21(?) members
located in 10th floor Prague TV tower.
Czech radio communications - telco problems getting other carriers in.
now 100Mb switch capacity problems mean separate peerings around NIX
no stats
national:international traffic -> 50:50 (due to language).

5u rack space
max 2 circuits to NIX + phone line
max 2 ports

czk 110 000 - USD 3150 pa
direct routes to 4 root-name servers
peering with one other member

GA 4 time a year
2/3 majority for new members

Exec committee
3 elected members

2nd location in Prague
dark fibre interconnect
full time staff
CZ is small, can they attract multinationals?

Slovak - Marek(?)
started 1996
21 members
read only access to member routers by SIX staff !
considering interconnect with NIX (CZ)
little compeition for Internation circuits - expensive.

4 Vienna - Christian

No change
Moving to larger room
Visit - Wed afternoon - meet 14:00 after lunch.

5 Scot - Fergus

proposal -
two offers tendered
close end of may
decision 6 weeks later

6 AMSIX - Rob

56 (actual) + 8 (progress) members
carriers upgrading bandwith
multiple stm 16 per carrier
task force to replace existing catalyst 5000s
share ideas about new technology

7 LINX - Nic

72 members
> 500 Mbps
dropped International connectivity requirements
dropped peering requirement to 1 other member
no transit dropped
technical criteria tightened.
rate of growth picked up particularly after change of requirements
less than half are just UK. 1/8 US & 1/8 global

150+ members with current infrastructure
gigabit to members
move to telehouse 2000
satellite & regional sites

8 Y2K

LINX - complience - checked switches, servers, building access
readiness? - conference for ISPs at rollover?
BSI - self compliance.

checked switches, building access with manual overrides
no protection against national disasters.
will issue to statement to members

VIX - Christian
checked switches, airco, UPS
(circular dependancies) everyone is waiting for each other ;-)

9 Other Business

Christian - Are people allowing extending switched LAN to office, no router at XP?

Liman - SEIX push connections to office. Connections come with dark fibre from office to two switches. Wanted to get rid of co-location business. No-one doing resell of connections so hasn't happened. Stockholm City only are allowed to dig streets so they sell cheap dark fibre where people need it.

Boris - one member doing this.

Keith - do it at layer one, otherwise loose admin control.

Rob - members don't trust each other to do it, but it happens and will happen more.

Liman - Harder to do private interconnects (backhaul ethernet between routers) eg Multicast.

Database WG

Chair: Wilfried Woeber
Attendees: ~80-90
Scribe: Ulf Kieber

NCC and database WG are going through consolidation at the moment in the sense in that we again had the database operational summary (traditional item on the agenda). We really want a code freeze on the existing database software implementation. There will only be one minor implementation/addtion effort and that is to update the inet6num object but otherwise the ncc is putting most of their effort/resources into progress with the software re-implementation project.

Joao Damas from the RIPE NCC gave a presentation and provided background information about the proposed structure of the software system and information on where the NCC is standing at the moment. Getting progress in the reimplementation project is a prerequisite for the ripe region to move to RPSL for the production environment. It is important to have a new code base which allows the ncc to implement new things on top of that and to do things in a more structure way than based on the old code.

Database consistency project:

The NCC has again allocated human resources to it. All of us together should try to increase the quality of the objects/data being stored in the database. Wilfried will give feedback about this during the RIPE meeting in September or early next year. This project is really making a difference. A certain set of measures should give an indication if we are really making progress or if we only can slow down the rate of deterioration of consistency.

Wilfried reported on the role of liaison with IETF activities. There are two drafts being worked on right now which have impact on database activities. The authentication and authorization draft. This paper is approaching final status. Version 0.4

The distributed registry docuement also still on the table. A document by Janos Zsako regarding PGP is being resubmitted as a formal paper. It will soon become a final document.

Wilfried continued and stated that he feels that we have to deal with the IPv6 compliance issue. From administrative logistic point of view it seems to give problems. For example checking the interfaces through the other functionalities/components of the whole system. We have found out that RPSL is right now not IPv6 enabled. We might want to think about an RPSL ng. or think about how we are going to implement the IPv6 routing registry in the future. The technical input should come from the routing working group.

Wilfried mentioned another thing to think about: IP registry. We are in final stages of having an IP distribution framework. We have to keep track of IPv6 addresses just like we are now keeping track of IPv4 addresses. Wilfried is looking for input from the regional registries as well as other working groups, how to do that. Either we extend one of the existing documents or we come up with a new document. The technical aspects appear to be under control at the moment, the adminstrative environment has to be worked on.

Regarding input from the other working groups. We have started to think about issues such as: where do we store data and who is responsible for the maintenance of data and who might be in the position for providing branding/rubber stamping/certificates for certain data. In particular DNS objects as being the majority of objects. Wilfried stated that we really have to start thinking about how to deal with that.

The LIR working group discussed the IP tagging proposal, which has to do with earmarking a certain subset of IP addresses as being used for dialup customers. They had a discussion about it which was sparked by the fact that there might be not only one application like smtp mail which might be interested in finding out about the usage of certain address space. We might want to document things like top level domain name servers.

This seems to suggest that there is room for application type registries. This is at the moment very fuzzy set of ideas/discussion and it requires more thinking and talking to find our way. Wilfried's major issue is who is going to use that data if we eventually might decide to implement the tools. Who is going to grant the data. Who will fund the resources in the end and how do we make sure we do not make/provide tools noone wants to use in the end, because that would simply be a waste of resources.

Netnews WG

Chair: Felix Kugler
Attendees: 30
Scribe: Julia Edwards

1. outstanding actions

A30-N3 *OPEN* flowmaps
A31-N1 *ONGOING* groupsync (now subproject NHNS)
A32-N1 *CLOSED* Test groupsync prototype (now called autd)

The open and ongoing actions will be renumbered to better point out the new direction of these projects.

2. Newsbone

Reports about current status of Newsbone and the deployment of online monitoring. Presentations about two tools to characterize the QOS of a path between two news servers.

3. Flowmaps

Kai Siering is back. He will continue his work on flowmaps.
A33.N1: rewrite of inpath software (Kai Siering)
A33.N2: visualization of traffic flows (Kai Siering)

4. groupsync - newsgroup synchronization

Two (new) prototypes have been presented:

autd by Jonas Luster: based on CVS; work will be proceed outside the scope of this working group.

NHNS by Daniel Diaz/Juan Garcia: based on DNS
A33.N3: work on NHNS software (Daniel Diaz/Juan Garcia)
A33.N4: "how-to" guide to simplify installation of TLH servers (Elmar Bins)

Most slides, this short report and the minutes are available from

Anti-Spam WG

Minutes: RIPE 33

Chair: Rodney Tillotson
Attendees: 44
Scribe: Gerry Berthauer

1 Reviewed progress towards WG objectives -- none

2 Reviewed developments in spam and anti-spam
- Collateral spam (your domain named in spam you never see)
- System compromise to obtain relaying service
+ DULs -- list of network addresses allocated for dial-up

3 Discussed current concerns
+ People are coping with spam in lots of different ways
- We want tools to identify spam
- We want software to more easily prevent transit

WG work item -- Centre for European Network Abuse Resolution)
- No enthusiasm
- Unlikely to deliver a result
+ Consider instead offering spam advice to existing CERTs
* Appeal for material on the mailing list; draft for September

5 Code of Conduct
WG work item
- This group has so far generated no text
+ Material is available elsewhere (LINX BCP soon, many AUPs)
* Offer this material on the list for discussion; draft for September

Test Traffic WG

Minutes: RIPE 33

Chair: Martin McCarthy
Attendees: 50

There was a presentation by Henk Uijterwaal of the RIPE NCC about the test traffic project.

The working group have a draft charter which hit their mailinglist some time ago. The working group hopes to have that stamped and used by the next RIPE meeting.

The working group has started to work on a policy for publishing the collected data from the test traffic project into the public domain or some such idea. This work will start on the mailinglist.

10. Next meetings

  • RIPE 34 20-24 September 1999 Amsterdam
  • RIPE 35 21-25 February 2000 Amsterdam
  • RIPE 36 May 2000 Budapest
  • RIPE 37 11-15 September 2000 Amsterdam
  • RIPE 38 22-26 January 2001 Amsterdam
  • RIPE 39 May 2001 Invitations and suggestions welcome!

11. AOB

Rob expressed his thanks to Christian Panigl and the Vienna University team for providing the great facilities. He also thanked the companies that sponsored the various social activities. Finally, he extended his thanks to the RIPE NCC for their support in the organisation of the meeting.

12. Close