RIPE 7 Minutes

1. Start of the Meeting

Chairman Rob Blokzijl welcomed the participants. The agenda was approved after some restructuring of the points.

2. Review of the Last Minutes and Action List

The minutes

The minutes from the last meeting was reviewed. Some minor changes will be added by Rob Blokzijl and some additional text concerning RIPE representation at the Interop90 will be added by Antonio Blasco Bonito.

The action list

Completion of minutes from 5th RIPE meeting. (D Karrenberg) Not done yet. An action and decision list exists as circulated. Rob Blokzijl and D Karrenberg will produce a short formal version of these minutes.
Action remains.

Inclusion of DNS data in the whois database. (D Karrenberg)
Not done yet.

Marten Terpstra will join in progressing this work.
Action remains.

Progress TF2-4 (Procedures for common network operations). (D Karrenberg)

Daniel Karrenberg circulated a draft document regarding IP Router management. J-M. Jouanigot will make it available as a RIPE draft after comments made during the meeting are incorporated.

Action progressed and transfered to J-M. Jouanigot.

Startup of group for evaluation of statistics. (B Stockman)

The group has been formed but no action has yet been started. The item is also interesting for cooperation with other networking organizations.
Action remains.

Circulate old material regarding cooperation with IETF. (B Stockman).
Action completed.

Produce a paper concerning DNS data. (Y Deviller).
The work is progressed but nothing in publishable form yet.
Action remains.

Produce a proposal for European backup root name servers. (F Dupont)

Waiting for input for root servers.
Action remains.

Testing of BIND version 4.8.3. (F Dupont).
Seems to be no problems with the new release. Only minor bug-fixes from previous release. RIPE could thus recommend the usage of versions 4.8.2 and 4.8.3.
Action completed.

Set up of the root name server within NORDUnet. (M Rehndal). The work is progressing. Currently tests are being performed and if successful a full installation will be accomplished.
Action remains.

Finalizing of IP cooperations document. (M Brunell) Mats Brunell not here to report. Rob Blokzijl will contact Mats Brunell and try to progress this work. See also TF4-1 below.

Write a proposal for X.500 access to the RIPE whois database. (E Huizer). Eric Huizer not here to report. Rob Blokzijl will try to progress this action.

Progress TF2-2 and TF2-3 (J-M Jouanigot). A paper concerning a router information entry in the RIPE whois database was circulated during this meeting. See below. Work on contact list continues as before.
Action completed.

Make SAS program available for statistical reports. (O Martin) As there seems to be little interest for this topic, those who really are interested should contact Olivier Martin.
Action aborted.

Expand the RIPE Task Force document. (R Blokzijl). The content depends on this meeting and changes will be put in after the meeting.
Action remains.

Presentation of RIPE at the Interop90. (A B Bonito).
Action completed.

Produce proposal document concerning RIPE routing strategy. (A Hillbo) Anders Hillbo not here to report. A draft document has been circulated which could be considered finalized. Antonio Blasco Bonito will put in some work to finalize this document.
Action remains.

3. Reports From Those Present

JNT. Phil Jones.

There are two policy group meetings taking place in the UK academic community during the next four weeks. These meetings will be discussing a proposal from the JNT to offer a WAN IP service over JANET; indeed one hopes that such a service , if established, would be a proper part of the international Internet. I will keep RIPE promptly informed of developments. The proposal is at a slightly delicate stage, and so I would appreciate some descretion - unnecessary email about this might be counterproductive for example. The JNT has an Advisory Group working in this area; this group has provided an interim report to support the discussions at these policy meetings. This report is available to RIPE - although perhaps we could find an easier way of giving access to it. Comments on that report will be most welcome (to dodag@jnt.ac.uk or p.jones@jnt.ac.uk if you wish). I recognize that the great mass of IP expertise lays outside UK, and we would welcome offers of help. Meanwhile I think it is sensible for us to plan on the basis that the proposal will be approved.

Copies of the JNT report are available from jnt-secretary@jnt.ac.uk, +44 235 445-724.

The document will also be available with anonymous ftp from mcsun.eu.net.

Phil initiated some initial discussion of the additional requirements for IP interworking. He referred to guidance given at the fifth RIPE meeting about information required by RIPE about new IP traffic, connections and requirements. Phil said that the UK will be very happy to have an appropriate dialogue on these matters as necessary, and he would welcome guidance on the sort of information that it would be appropriate to provide. Phil outlined the usage that he expected to be made by UK users. There was significant interest in the wide-area use of X-windows, as well as the more readily anticipated requirement for smtp, telnet, telnet3270, and arpa-ftp."

In the near future email between mainland Europe and the UK will no longer go via the US. Concerning the UK addressing order there is the risk of mailing conflicts as Czeckoslovakia has registered their top domain as .cs which also is a very common first subdomain within UK.

DESY, Hamburg. Hans Frese.

The DESY - CERN line will be 768 Kbps from the end of November 1990. This will give IP connectivity from WIN to the rest of the world.

SWITCH. Thomas Lenggenhager.

Two weeks after the last RIPE Meeting the Swiss IP network was fully DNS connected.

IRIS. Ignacio Martinez.

IRIS now has IP connectivity over IXI to NIKHEF.

NIKHEF. Marten Terpstra

NIKHEF currently has the following IP/IXI connections installed: UK (ULCC), Portugal, Ireland (HEANET), Spain (IRIS), Greece (Ariadne), Germany (UNIDO), CWI. Due to the PTT set up of IXI the connection between Madrid and Amsterdam will go Madrid - Paris - Berne - Paris - Brussels - Amsterdam. Marten Terpstra will write a document describing the current IP/IXI layout.

4. The Maps

A new release of the RIPE IP connectivity map dated November 9 was presented by Thomas Lenggenhager. The map is as usual available from mcsun.eu.net with anonymous ftp.

The transatlantic connectivity map has been made available with anonymous ftp from nic.nordu.net.

The CERN maps are currently only available in papercopy.

5. New and Upgraded Links

Amsterdam - CERN
The Amsterdam - CERN line is currently 64 Kbps paid by NIKEF and EUUG. The line will be upgraded to 256 Kbps and the participating organizations will then be NIKHEF, EUnet, IBM, SURFnet, NORDUnet and CERN. The upgrade was ordered 4 weeks ago and should be in effect in January 1991.

Europe - Pacific
Mats Brunell has circulated a new version of the proposal for a Europe - Pacific link. At the last CCIRN meeting it was said that the traffic between Europe and Pacific could pass over the US backbones, i.e. NSFnet, ESnet and NSInet. NSFent could grant access directly but the other representatives had to go back to their organization for a formal decision. Money aimed for a separate Europe - Pacific link could then be put into upgrades of current
transatlantic connectivity. As NSFnet will give access to their T3 backbone, ESnet and NSInet could be used for backup.

Germany - US. (The "fat pipe")
No line has been ordered yet. No final decision of German end point.

CERN links
CERN - CNUSC will be upgrade to 128 Kbps for IP.
CERN - CEA/Saclay will have 64 Kbps for IP.
CERN - Linz will go from SNA to IP with 64 Kbps.
CERN - SPAN/CIEMAT has a request for giving access to IP.
CERN - Israel will have 64 Kbps IP. The line is not yet ordered.
CERN - RAL will have 9.6 Kbps for IP.
CERN - DESY will upgraded to 768 Kbps
CERN - SARA, see above.

EUnet links.
A 128kbit/s upgrade of the EUnet link to Alternet, US will be ordered soon after December 1. A possible solution is to put the additional 64 Kbps on PTAT-1 to have redundancy on transatlantic connectivity.

INRIA - CWI connection will be upgraded to 64 Kbps.

UKC - CWI will be upgraded to 64 Kbps.

A 9.6 kbit/s to Ireland (TCD) is planned.

France
INRIA/Rocouencourt, CNUSC and IN2P3 will have IP connectivity.

NORDUNET
KTH - Finland upgrade to 128 Kbps ordered.
KTH - Norway upgrade to 128 Kbps ordered.
KTH - JvNC upgrade to 128 Kbps ordered.
KTH - CWI upgrade to 192 Kbps ordered.

NORDUNET NOC will be connected to the international carrier (STI) via a 2 Mbps mux to be installed at KTH during December. This will eliminate the costs for most of the local loops between KTH and STI. Changes in line configurations will only be a matter of programming the STI mux.

Italy
Rome and Bari are now connected to the GARR Mbps muxed backbone.

6. Progress Reports from the Task Forces.

Task Force 1. Connectivity and Routing (Thomas Lenggenhager).

Thomas Lenggenhager announced that he would like to be replaced as coordinator for Task Force 1 , preferably with someone having routing experience.

TF1-1 Inventory of international IP connectivity. Regarding the maps, see separate agenda point.

A link database has been put online at nic.nordu.net and is in whois format and will be made accessible with whois in the near future. The input to the database has been line lists produced by Peter Kirstein UCL, Bill Bostwick FNC and answers to a line description questionnaire recently sent out by European Engineering and Planning Group (EEPG).

Currently the database may be retrieved by anonymous ftp from nic.nordu.net under the directory links. The database is still very incomplete and needs more input. Please send changes and additions to Bernhard Stockman NORDUnet, email: boss@sunet.se.

The format of the link object that is suggested for inclusion in the RIPE whois database is very initial and for the moment contains the following definitions.

*nr: Database ident number.

*p1: First point site description.

*c1: First point technical contact.

*a1: First point administrative organization.

*r1: First point administrative responsible contact.

*m1: First point cost.

*p2: Second point site description.

*c2: Second point technical contact.

*a2: Second point administrative organization.

*r2: Second point administrative responsible contact.

*m2: Second point cost.

*sp: Line speed (i.e. bandwidth).

*me: Line media (i.e. Sattelite, PDN, TAT,...).

*pr: Line protocol(s) used.

*au: Line acceptable usage (i.e. which orgs are allowed on the line)

*co: Line additional comments, status etc.

The entry format will be discussed within RIPE and also in other relevant networking organizations before a final decision of necessary definitions. Bernhard Stockman will write a proposal for the link object to be included in the RIPE whois database.

Another type of database object suggested for inclusion in the RIPE whois database is information regarding Autonomous Systems, i.e contacts, networks included and similar info for a specific AS. The format for an AS object has yet to be defined and proposed. Ruediger Volk will produce a paper regarding the AS object type for inclusion in the RIPE whois database.

A third object suggested for inclusion in the RIPE whois database is information regarding routers. A first draft definition of a router database entry is proposed in a document circulated at the meeting (see TF2-2 below).

A lot of databases are now being maintained. Every NIC models his world into his databases and also a lot of different formats and access methods are being used like whois, SNMP, X.500, finger, DNS. There seems to be a need for an effort started together with other networking organizations regarding optimization of information storage to avoid duplication of information and incompatibilities among formats and access methods. Bernhard Stockman will investigate possible cooperation with IETF within this area. See also agenda point regarding cooperation with the USA.

TF1-2 Inventory of national IP infrastructure not yet interconnected.

A lot of information is gathered regarding national networks both connected and not connected. The information still remains to be put in a presentational form.

It was put forward that the mapping of the inside of a country/network is the responsibility of that country/network. A document will be produced by Thomas Lenggenhager and Bernhard Stockman defining the requirements for national IP network maps. This document should describe which information should be included and how these maps should be produced and distributed.

TF1-3 Plan for connectivity between networks.

As most networks now are connected the description of this subtask will be changed from planning of connectivity to the coordination of connectivity between networks among RIPE members.

TF1-4 Design of a routing scheme.

The routing scheme effort is being progressed. See a separate agenda point.

TF1-5 Monitoring of routing

Ongoing as is.

Task Force 2. Network Management and Operations. (Daniel Karrenberg).

TF2-1 Create and maintain a whois database about RIPE networks.

Ongoing as is. See also Task Force 1-1 above.

A RIPE Database statistic was presented to the meeting. In the database from November 7, 1990 there was a total of 1315 entries containing 643 people, 670 networks and 0 domains.Regarding network connected status the database currently shows:

RIPE connected: 265
NSFnet connected: 183
ICS connected: 195
NORDUnet connected: 84
EUnet connected: 86
LOCAL connected: 393
NONE connected: 0

TF2-2 Create an Infrastructure of Operational Contacts

A document describing a database object for router information was circulated by J-M. Jouanigot. It is intended that this router object will be the focus for the necessary RIPE operational contact information. J-M. Jouanigot will see to it that the object description will be incorporated into the RIPE database description document.

TF2-3 has been merged with 2-2

TF2-4 Procedures for Common Network Operations

A document "Recommendation on Operational Contacts" is being edited by D Karrenberg and J-M. Jouanigot. Drafts have been circulated within TF2 and a first RIPE draft will be circulated soon by D Karrenberg.

A draft document "Recommendation on IP Router Management" has been produced and was circulated on this meeting. Some comments were received. The document is being edited by J-M. Jouanigot and D Karrenberg. A RIPE draft will be circulated soon by J-M. Jouanigot.

TF2-6 Set up a European NIC
See point on NCC below.

TF2-7 Common Utilities
No new developments.

TF2-8 Centers of Expertise
No new developments.

Task Force 3. Domain Name System (Francis Dupont).

TF3-1 The namespace database.
Marten Terpstra reported on current DNS status.

Still some top level domains missing. Currently there are 508 domains included. Two new top domains are being registered, .cs for Czeckoslovakia and .hu for Hungary.

Statistics regarding the Domain Name System by Marten Terpstra:

+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Country       |  Hosts  | 2nd level |     top level |
|               |         |   domains | domainservers |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Austria       |     783 |         2 |             2 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Belgium       |       2 |         0 |             2 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Denmark       |     858 |        30 |             7 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Finland       |    3781 |        31 |             4 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| France        |    3436 |    50(**) |             6 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Germany       | 3936(*) |        38 |             3 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Greece        |     105 |         8 |             4 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Iceland       |      16 |         1 |             6 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Ireland       |       4 |         0 |             4 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Israel        |     661 |         2 |             3 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Italy         |     649 |        12 |             7 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Netherlands   |    5082 |        20 |             7 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Norway        |    3317 |        37 |             4 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Portugal      |       0 |         0 |             2 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Spain         |       3 |         0 |             3 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Sweden        | 5190(*) |        34 |             6 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Switzerland   |    6284 |        15 |             8 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| UnitedKingdom |     206 |         1 |             5 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Yugoslavia    |       0 |         0 |             2 |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
| Total         |   34313 |           |               |
+---------------+---------+-----------+---------------+
(*) Count too low due to unreachability.
(**) Real figure 150, around 100 domains represented by MX only.

Piet Beertema presented an extended statistic over current name server topology.

Notes to the extended DNS statistics.

At the time of the RIPE meeting CS had not been officially registered yet; it was expected to be a matter of days though.

IL is not in the list, since it wasn't considered to be part of Europe; there are 3 nameservers for it, none in Europe.

GB is not a registered top level domain!

+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Domain         | Total | EU | US |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Austria        |     2 |  2 |  0 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Belgium        |     2 |  0 |  2 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Czeckoslovakia |     4 |  3 |  1 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Denmark        |     7 |  4 |  2 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Finland        |     4 |  2 |  2 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| France         |     6 |  4 |  2 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Greece         |     5 |  3 |  2 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Hungary        |     4 |  3 |  1 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Iceland        |     6 |  3 |  3 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Ireland        |     4 |  1 |  3 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Italy          |     6 |  3 |  3 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Netherlands    |     6 |  4 |  2 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Norway         |     5 |  4 |  1 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Poland         |     2 |  2 |  0 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Portugal       |     2 |  0 |  2 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Spain          |     3 |  0 |  3 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Sweden         |     6 |  3 |  3 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Switzerland    |     5 |  3 |  2 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Turkey         |     2 |  0 |  2 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| United Kingdom |     5 |  4 |  1 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+
| Yugoslavia     |     2 |  0 |  2 |
+----------------+-------+----+----+

It is recommended that:

Primary nameservers for European top level domains run on a host in Europe.

There be at least 2 nameservers in Europe and 2 in the USA for every European top level domain, strategically placed to ensure best reachability.

Problems with Yugoslavian DNS.

Yugoslavia still uses MX records incorrectly by enforcing the use of X.400 addresses. Mailservice to yugoslavian EUnet sites is by this denied. The situation has been like this for two months. They refuse to register subdomains. We could certainly give them any help they need but any request for a change of the situation has silently been ignored. Rob Blokzijl will write a letter to the adequate Yugoslavian body.

DNS information in RIPE whois database.

A database for DNS information will be created. Marten Terpstra will join in this work with Daniel Karrenberg. A document describing the DNS object to be included in the RIPE whois database shall be produced by Marten Terpstra.

TF3-2 Coordinate backup name servers.
No progress.

TF3-3 Framework of backup nameservers and European root servers.
See separate agenda point.

TF3-4 Maintain a list of recommended DNS software and bugs.
No progress.

TF3-5 Study mailrouting and MX records.
No progress.

Task Force 4. Formal Coordination. (Rob Blokzijl).

TF4-1 Propose a template for agreement on IP cooperation. No progress. Rob Blokzijl will contact Mats Brunell who is responsible for this action.

TF4-2 Maintain contacts with CCIRN and FNC directly.

See separate agenda point.

TF4-3 Start formal contacts with other organizations as necessary.

See separate point.

Task Force 5. Performance and statistics. (Bernhard Stockman).

Bernhard Stockman presented the current statistical slides. They are available with anonymous ftp from nic.nordu.net directory statistics/ripe/.

As earlier there were comments on this type of statistics that it does not show the real situation. There should be other metrics used as well as additons of point of measurements.

An effort is now being initiated within IETF to define a set of metrics that should be used in presenting network load and quality of service. A cooperation between RIPE and IEFT in this subject is therefore necessary to have compatible sets of statistics. See also separate agenda point on cooperation with the USA.

TF5-1 Development and evaluation of statistical tools. A group has been formed within RIPE that will investigate the current metrics and points of measurements. No actions have yet been started as this is awaiting the formal startup of a corresponding group within IETF.

TF5-2 Presentation techniques for network performance statistics. As within TF5-1 this subtask is awaiting the startup of a corresponding IETF working group. Within the Nordunet Engineering Technial Forum (NETF) some works have been started within this area which could be part of a joint effort between RIPE, IETF and NETF.

TF5-3 Tools for benchmarking and evaluation.
No progress.

7. RIPE and RARE Status Report.

Budget
A proposal for funding from RARE has been submitted. There has been no answer to this yet.

CCIRN
The European CCIRN delegation has now been selected and Rob Blokzijl will be a member of this delegation thus fulfilling the request for RIPE representation within CCIRN that was pronounced during that last RIPE meeting. CCIRN considers its members now not representing some networking organizations but being experts within different fields and thus covering as much as possible of today networking situations.

At the last CCIRN meeting at Santa Fe in October 1990 some main items were discussed.

The IEPG Terms of Reference and workplan was approved after some minor changes.

The impact of the growing east european networks on the west european networking policies. It was concluded that networks should be as open as possible and document is under preparation to formally state this declaration.

The transatlantic connectivity was discussed. As mentioned above a suggestion for the European pacific traffic was discussed and the a proposal to put that traffic onto the US backbones.

Report from the European Engineering and Planning Group (EEPG). (Yves Devillers, Olivier Martin and Bernhard Stockman)

The EEPG has sent out a questionnaire to European networking organizations in accordance with the goal to make a coarse analysis of current European infrastructure and resources used. Most organizations have answered and these answers are now being processed. The input from the answers has also been put into a link database together with other similar information. See also TF1-1 report above.

In the coming period a set of possible technical solutions will proposed and sent out on main international technical networking mailinglists for a broad discussion of possible solutions for a pan-european multiprotocol high bandwidth european backbone. EEPG aims at a final proposal to be presented at the Joint Networking Conference in Blois, May 1991.

8. Report from the IEPG Meeting at Santa Fe, October 22 - 24, 1990. (Rob Blokzijl, Olivier Martin and Bernhard Stockman)

The IEPG had its first meeting at Santa Fe the days before the CCIRN meeting. During the first day the participants gave short presentations of the network(s) they represented. For those interested a copy of the material presented could be obtained from Olivier Martin.

The proposed Terms of Reference was discussed and changed in some respects to more clearly reflect the IEPGs role as a purely technical body. The Terms of Reference was later after some minor changes approved by CCIRN.

During the second day a set of subtask relevant for the IEPG work were defined and IEPG members selected to write a charter describing the objectives for each of the defined tasks. The intention was not that these tasks should only be performed within IEPG but if necessary be delegated as special actions to relevant bodies.

The tasks defined:

Link Optimization, to improve current global network services.

Mapping, to define common map formats and presentation techniques.

Statistics, to define common statistical metrics and formats.

DNS, Name server global services.

Registries, global address registration coordination.

Operations, global operation schemes.

Routing, coordination of global routing.

NIC/NOC, coordination of NICs and NOCs.

MHS, Coordination of global mail harmonizations.

One the third day a joint meeting between CCIRN and IEPG was held. The Terms of Reference and the subtask definitions were discussed.

9. Report from the NORDUnet Engineering and Technical Forum (NETF) (Bernhard Stockman)

The NORDUnet Engineering and Technical Forum had its first meeting at November 30 to December 1 in Gothenburg, Sweden.

The intention with NETF is to try to adopt to the working method used within IETF and now also within RIPE, i.e. a combination of plenary sessions and parallel working group meetings. Currently there are 8 working groups defined of which 6 have started the work.

User Support (Chair Rolf Nordhagen)
Value Added Services (Chair Harri Salminen)
Mail systems (Chair Harald Tveit Alvestrand)
Directory Services (Chair Gier Pedersen)
Performance and Statistics (Chair Bernhard Stockman)
ISO-IP (CLNS) (Chair Juha Heinanen)
High Speed (Chair Jan Engvald) (Not yet started)
X.25 IXI (Chair Olav Kvittem) (Not yet started)

Phill Gross, chair of IETF visited the NETF meeting and gave a presentation of IETF method of working and a presentation of US high speed initiative NREN.

Juha Heinanen gave a presentation of high speed initiatives in Finland and also gave a presentation of his coming paper regarding a possible european backbone technology (Frame Relaying). This paper will officially be presented at the European High Speed Symposium in Brussels, January 24 1991.

10. Cooperation Between RIPE and the USA

As discussed on earlier RIPE meetings there are a lot of overlapping between RIPE Task Forces and working groups in the IETF and also between RIPE and the above mentioned NORDUnet Engineering and Technical Forum (NETF). A possible start up of some cooperation projects will be at the coming IETF meeting in Boulder.

RIPE representation at IETF meeting in Boulder.

RIPE will seek funding for three representatives at the IETF meeting at Boulder in December 1990.

Bernhard Stockman plans to go aiming at cooperation in the area of RIPE Task Force 1 (mapping) and Task Force 5 (statistics).

Ruediger Volk is willing to go aiming at a progress of the NCC items.

Daniel Karrenberg is willing to go aiming at a cooperation within the RIPE Task Force 2 topics (Common management and operations).

11. RIPE Meeting Structure

To give more time for working group meetings during a RIPE Meeting, it was decided to increase the meeting time. Each meeting will now last three days, there will be three meetings per year, so the total number of days spent at RIPE meetings per year remains the same. However, each meeting now will be divided between plenary sessions and (parallel) task force sessions. The result will be an even more productive (technical) meeting.The proposed schedule for a meeting is the following:

Day 1:
14:00 - 15:00 plenary session
15:00 - 18:00 technical sessions

Day 2:
09:00 - 10:00 plenary session
10:00 - 12:00 technical sessions
l u n c h
14:00 - 17:00 technical sessions
17:00 - 18:00 plenary session

Day 3:
09:00 - 10:00 technical sessions
10:00 - 12:00 plenary session
l u n c h
14:00 - 16:00 plenary session

It will be important to find the least conflicting times chedule as there are people participating in more than one working group. Rob Blokzijl will do the necessary coordination.

The proposed dates for the 1991 meetings are as follows:

Feb 27 - Mar 01 Amsterdam
Jun 11 - Jun 13 Amsterdam
Oct Geneva area, close to Telecom'91

12. RIPE Network Coordination Centre (NCC)

The draft circulated at the last meeting has been slightly modified. It will be distributed and sent to RARE together with a covering letter.

Three things are asked from RARE

The decision that RARE approves this approach.
That necessary support is given from RARE.
That RARE seeks funding bodies for this effort.

RARE has showed a positive attitude and welcomes this initiative as a good thing that should be installed. There are already organizations interested in putting money into this. To ease for particular funding bodies the NCC document will be rearranged to specify specific funding needs for each of the three main NCC topics described.

To make the NCC really happen there are some ways to go. One way is to put the RIPE NCC within RARE and let RARE seek personnel and to place the NCC at the RARE secretariat location.

Another possibility is to make a formal call for tender to organizations that could undertake the NCC work.

The general position is that RIPE is open for unsolicited offers and that the NCC effort should be under the RARE umbrella.

Peter Streibelt put forward the suggestion that a (modified) NCC proposal would be directed to the various mailing lists, so that people and companies would have an opportunity to offer an unsolicited offer or funding.

Proposed general registry contact address.

Piet Beertema proposed some kind of address that could be used for all kinds of registry contacts into a certain country. The address proposed is registry@cc where cc is the specific country code used for that country. It was pointed out that a similar standard already existed in the form

xx-technical-contact@domain-address
xx-administrative-contact@domain-address

This is however not exactly the same so the above proposal still remains valid.

13. Routing, IXI

There are reservations regarding IXI due to uncertainties in stability and funding. Most european networking organizations have continued their usage of leased lines in spite of IXI.

Routing is currently not a problem. Ruediger Volk is currently doing some experiments of loadsharing on IXI using default EUnet line and the IXI connection between UNIDO and CWI. He seeks other participants in these testing.

A document describing how to use IP/IXI and how to not use it should be produced. Marten Terpstra volunteered to produce a document regarding current IP/IXI layout. This document may later be extended to a guideline on how to use IP/IXI.

14. Meetings Overview Service ('whenis')

To ease meeting allocation for RIPE related people there is a need for some kind of meeting service, giving the coming dates for meetings that directly or indirectly could have influence on future not yet decided meeting times and locations.

A quick and dirty first implementation was set up on NIC.EU.net by Piet Beertema. It can be used in two ways:

with 'finger meetings@NIC.EU.net'
by sending mail to meetings@NIC.EU.net with a line Subject: list in the header. Anything else in the Subject line will cause the mail to be forwarded to hostmaster@NIC.EU.net, who will interpret it as a request to add something to the meetings list.

Note that this is not an official service, but only a first approach to see:

if such a service is really wanted
if it is wanted in this way (and if not: in what way?)

All entries in the list of meetings should in one way or another be related to [the work of] RIPE.

15. Closing of the Meeting

The participants were grateful to CWI and NIKHEF for a very well arranged meeting. Especially the terminals and work stations set up in close connection to the meeting locality were appreciated. This claims for a continuation of similar service at coming meetings.

APENDIX

ACTION list

Rob Blokzijl

Do last changes to minutes from the 6:th RIPE meeting.
Contact Mats Brunell to progress the finalizing of the IP cooperation template document.
Contact Eric Huizer to progress the proposal for X.500 access to the RIPE whois database.
Rewrite the RIPE Task Force document.
Write a letter to relevant Yugosalvian authority regarding misuse of DNS.

Antonio Blasco Bonito

Write some additional text regarding representation at Interop90 to the minutes from the 6th RIPE meeting.
Finalize the RIPE routing strategy document.

Mats Brunell

Finalizing of the IP cooperations template document.

Yves Devillers

Produce a paper concerning DNS data.

Francis Dupont.

Produce a proposal for European backup root name servers.

Eric Huizer

Write a proposal for X.500 access to the RIPE whois database.

Daniel Karrenberg

Complete minutes from the 5th RIPE meeting.
Update whois database software (with M Terpstra)
Finalize and circulate "Recommendation on Operational Contacts"
Explore ways of cooperation with US bodies on TF2 topics.

Thomas Lenggenhager

Together with Bernhard Stockman write a document clarifying the meaning of "national IP infrastructure".

Matti Rendahl.

Set up of European root name server within NORDUnet.

Bernhard Stockman.

In cooperation with IETF and NETF define metrics and point of measurements for statistical evaluation.
Write a proposal for a line object to be included in the RIPE whois database.
Investigate possibilities for cooperation with IETF regarding optimization of databases and corresponding access methods.
Put information regarding national infrastructure in a presentational form.
Together with Thomas Lenggenhager write a document describing the meaning of "national infrastructure".
Start of cooperation with IETF and NETF on statistics metrics and presentation.

Marten Terpstra

Write a document regarding a DNS object for the RIPE whois database.
Inclusion of DNS data in the whois database.
Write a document describing current IP/IXI layout.

Ruediger Volk

Write a document proposing format of a Autonomous System object to be included in the RIPE whois database.