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Plenary Session Minutes

Amsterdam, 21st - 24th September 1999
Plenary Session

Chair: Rob Blokzijl
Scribe: Naomi de Bruyn

1. Opening

2. Agenda

3. Minutes RIPE 33

4. From the Chair

5. Reports from the RIPE NCC (Mirjam Kuehne)

a - Current Status of ICANN and the ASO (Mirjam Kuehne)
b - Selection of 3 Address Council Members
(Note: a document describing the relevant procedures will
be circulated separately.)

7. 10 Years of RIPE: a special

8. Reports from the working groups

9. Next meetings

10. AOB

11. Close


- 1. - Opening

RIPE chair Rob Blokzijl welcomed the participants to the 34th
RIPE meeting.

- 2. - Agenda

Rob proposed to change the order of agenda items 5 & 6. Agenda item
6 was discussed first followed by item 5. The RIPE 34 meeting
participants approved the agenda.

- 3. - Minutes RIPE 33

The RIPE 33 plenary session minutes were approved.

- 4. - From the chair

Rob announced that a candidate was found for the RIPE NCC Managing
Director function. The candidate was found by the RIPE NCC Executive
Board with support from the RIPE NCC workers council. The current
state of affairs was that the final details of a contract were being

The new Managing Director would be announced and introduced at the
RIPE NCC Annual General Meeting on 19 October 1999.

- 5. - RIPE NCC Status Report

New LIRs: Mirjam reported that at in Q1 of 1999 the RIPE NCC
registered two new members per calendar day, twice as many as were
expected and forecasted. It has slowed down in Q2 but the RIPE NCC was
still registering approximately one and a half new member per day. The
new members tend to be small or grow slower than members in the past
therefore the overall workload is not increasing in proportion to the
growth of members.

The RIPE NCC reported that some LIRs had been closed. This has
happened for a number of reasons such as an LIR going out of business
or LIRs that have not paid their membership fees. The RIPE NCC has
closed down 136 members to date and they have been removed from the
RIPE NCC accounting system. These LIRs no longer receive services from
the RIPE NCC. A long process is undertaken by the RIPE NCC before the
decision is made to close down a registry. The present process of
collecting outstanding payments has proven successful in decreasing
the outstanding payments.

The RIPE database receives on average 5 queries per second and 10
updates per minute. During the DB-WG bulk updates which slow down the
updating process enormously was discussed. This problem needs to be
tackled and is a topical issues in the DB-WG. The number of objects in
the RIPE database has exceeded two and a half million.

The RIPE NCC has began allocating addresses from 213 address space.
62/8 addresses are also being assigned. Allocations from 62/8 had
slowed down somewhat at the beginning of the year but has increased in
Q2 with larger members requesting address space from this range for
larger contiguous blocks.

Overall the RIPE NCC has allocated approx. 70 million addresses. This
figure would align with the allocations made by the other RIRs when
comparing the ratio of members to the amount of allocated addresses in
each region.

Mirjam reported that the RIPE community is crucial to the development
of services provided by the RIPE NCC. The feedback more or less
determines the yearly Activity Plan of the organisation. The RIPE NCC
has produced the Activities & Expenditure Plan (document ripe-197) for
the operating year 2000. The Executive Board has reviewed the document
and will present it to the membership at the upcoming AGM meeting.

Mirjam outlined the main activities of the Activities & Expenditure
Plan. In summary, the main structural change proposed in the Activity
Plan is introduction of Membership Services. The Membership Services
are comprised of Registration Services and the Test Traffic
measurements which are only available to RIPE NCC members.

Co-ordination Activities are open to the Internet community at large;
such as the maintenance of the RIPE Database and the organisation of
the RIPE meetings.

Two new activities have been listed: Routing Information Services and
Routing Registry Consistency. These projects were initially started in
1999 however more resources will be spent on them in 2000.

Details: Paula Caslav has left the RIPE NCC. Nurani Nimpuno has been
employed by the RIPE NCC as Registration Services Manager.

The average response time for address space and AS number requests has
been 2 to 3 days. The RIPE NCC has worked on automating procedures in
Registration Services. Therefore a increase of hostmaster staff is not
foreseen, even though the membership and number of requests have

The RIPE NCC has began allocating IPv6 address space. This was
achieved through extremely good co-operation among the RIRs. The RIRs
have worked together evaluating requests, exchanging experiences,
information and opinions to ensure the same assignment and evaluation
criteria is used in all regions. The RIRs also have good co-operation
with 6bone. No major failures or major open policy issues were

13 LIR Training Courses were delivered since the last RIPE meeting in
May 1999. Mirjam explained the training course policy to the people
attending the plenary session. She asked that members notify the RIPE
NCC in advance if any persons registered for the course will not
attend. This way the RIPe NCC can offer the place to individuals which
could not attend the course for reasons of capacity. The RIPE NCC has
been working on the current course material to improve the
presentation and reference material. The presentation material has
revised and a more detailed reference handout is planned for the
attendees. The revised courses will be delivered starting January 2000.

The database department has been working mainly on re-implementation,
but also concentrated on keeping the existing code running. The RIPE
NCC has a fully redundant server configuration on one machine and also
another server which is running a near real-timer, so that a swap over
can be made if necessary. DB/MRTG have done everything to improve the
database software for sending in updates.

Good results and positive feedback were reported for the database
consistency project. The consistency within the database has improved.
The RIPE NCC has improved the syntax checks and suggested automated
changes where possible. The RIPE NCC is still working on setting up
redundant servers with other Regional Internet Registries.

Mirjam explained that the RIPE NCC had commenced work on the Routing
Information Services project outlined in the Activity and Expenditures
Plan. The RIPE NCC will collect and store routing data, current and
past/historical, to allow network operators to locate possible
problems within the network or within a specific AS at a certain time.
The RIPE NCC has started testing and a published document on the
design is planned after the RIPE meeting.

It was reported that the Routing Registry Consistency project will
receive more attention. Initially the RIPE NCC wil concentrate on
route/origin authentication and not on the policies in the autnum
object. The RIPE community has made it clear to the RIPE NCC that this
is the most pressing issue at the moment.

Mirjam explicitly mentioned the good co-operation experienced with the
other Regional Internet Registries. On a daily basis operational
information and support is exchanged between the RIRs as much as
possible. This ensures consistency in criteria applied in the regions.
Co-operation has mainly taken place in 3 topics: IPv6, ICANN/ASO and
database consistency. The RIRs plan to transfer data that is currently
registered in the ARIN database (for historical reasons) to the
regions that the networks are operated in.

Mirjam welcomed Kyoko and Fabrina, the APNIC staff that visited the
RIPE meeting.

Q: Enzo Valente asked a question with regards to the database. He
stated that there is a difference between the ARIN and RIPE database
and that the RIPE NCC had made a lot of work on the RIPE database. If
Europe succeeds with this database why not offer it for free use with
regards to other databases.

A: the RIPE database it is there for free. Everyone can use/grep the
code and implement it. It mainly is a matter of history. The
communities are used to certain different formats. We have tried over
the years to work together to improve that situation. The code has
always been free has been offered to other RIRs.

- 6. - ICANN/ASO

Rob explained that ICANN/ASO had been on the RIPE meeting agenda for
at least two years but that developments have reached a new phase.

Mirjam Kuehne provided a short introduction regarding the current
status of ICANN/ASO and the selection of Address Council members
which was to take place during the plenary session.

She reported that ICANN had reviewed and accepted the proposal for a
MoU-based Address Supporting Organisation submitted by the 3 RIRs at
the ICANN Board meeting on 26 August 1999 in Santiago, Chile. The RIRs
are now working on a MoU that the RIRs and ICANN could hopefully sign
in October.

Other resolutions that ICANN made at their Santiago meeting include
the continued support in the set-up of new registries for Africa and
Latin America. They recommended and suggested that the ASO involve
representatives in the ICANN structure as observers in the ASO.

Another resolution was passed based on information that certain
parties did not fully agree with the ASO proposal as such and that
certain issues were not properly addressed. ICANN tried to find a
compromise and move forward to approve the proposal but at the same
time tried to address the concerns of these organisations. This lead
to the formation of an Ad Hoc Group. It is not quite clear yet what
the exact terms of reference will be but the Ad Hoc Group will look
into future numbering schemes to make them consistent specifically
with regards to telephony and IP. It was felt that this would fall in
between the PSO and ASO. Their work is expected to finish after one
year and a report will be delivered to ICANN. This report could
possibly suggest a change in structure of the ASO. The group will
include representatives of businesses, including telecom operators
and Internet service providers and trade organisations, the ASO
Council, the ICANN Board, and other legitimately interested parties.

During the plenary session a discussion took place on how to select
members for Address Council. Following the discussion the AC members
would be selected as outlined in the following document published to
the RIPE NCC members

Mirjam reiterated some essential features of the proposed ASO

- The structure must be open and transparent.
- The functions have to be separated
- It should be built on existing structures currently in place
(bottom-up, industry self regulatory)

The structure of ASO includes having an annual General Assembly
meeting and an Address Council. The different tasks and
responsibilities for these different groups have been discussed in
the LIR-WG. The meeting participants strongly agreed the need for open
and transparent structures.

Mirjam stated that the communications (announcements, minutes,
agendas) will be made public and that open mailing-lists will be
created to get input from as many people as possible about the
specific IP policy issues.

Mirjam reported that the LIR-WG discussed how policies are actually
developed in the 3 regions, how everyone could participate and how
new policies or changes could be suggested. It was reported that this
is the role of the community and the RIRs to ensure policies are
realistic and fair. The individuals selected for the Address Council
and ICANN Board must not be staff members of any RIR. The proposal
also states quite clearly that no ASO-appointed Director may serve
simultaneously on the Address Council.

In the process of writing this proposal the RIRs tried to recognise
and use the structures currently in place and make sure the structures
were not duplicated. Existing open structures are proposed to build
policy. This includes input from organisations that need to work with
IP address space and that are affected by the policies.

Mirjam pointed out that participation is possible within the ICANN
framework in addition to the proposed structure. Proposals for policy
changes can also be submitted directly to the ASO if it is felt that
the existing structures are not working or are not appropriate.

With regards to regional diversity, the ASO is asked to schedule their
General Assembly meetings in different regions and hopefully hold them
in conjunction with other meetings in order to minimise travel for the
participants. The function of the General Assembly is that it is an
open forum which mainly works electronically, but will also physically
meet once every year. It is like a members meeting but open to all
interested parties. It reviews Address Council operations and gives
input to the ASO.

In short, Mirjam summarised the function of the Address Council as
existing to oversee the whole policy developing process. They are
there to make sure the process is open and transparent, fair and
consistent and uses the criteria as set by ICANN and the Internet
community. Mirjam stated that the Address Council and their duties are
outlined in the Memorandum of Understanding that can be found on the
RIPE NCC website at:

There had been an open call for nominations for the AC. And we were
working to have a fair and open selection process for these candidates.

Mirjam clarified that the policy within the ASO is the same as it
works now. We have to make sure that we integrate people that are part
of the IP address world. This was discussed in the LIR-WG and that
more activity is needed to make existing structures known. She also
stated that many organisations were not aware that RIPE meetings were
where these issues were discussed and where they should be if they
want to participate.

It was reported that the ASO role is restricted to IP policies and
that the registries are the organisations that continue to maintain
the resources. The ASO is not there to tell the RIR staff how to do
their work, but mainly to oversee the policy development and to report
and provide advice to ICANN.

Address Council Selection

The Address Council selection procedure was discussed in the LIR-WG,
which is the open forum that discusses and defines policies in the
RIPE NCC service region. The RIPE NCC chose to use the existing open
processes for the selection of Address Council members. Therefore, the
RIPE meeting plenary session was selected as it is the largest forum
and everyone interested in this selection could participate.
Mirjam and Rob stressed that it is an interim procedure. Within the
ASO proposal and the draft MOU it specifies quite a long time frame
and certain deadlines that are to be followed within the nomination
and selection process. Due to time constraints set by the ICANN Board,
the RIRs modified the procedure to select the initial Address Council.
ICANN requested to have the directors from each region selected by
November which called for the modification in the initial AC selection
process. The procedure will be discussed in further detail in the
LIR-WG and the formal procedure for the future can be outlined by the
next RIPE meeting in February 2000.

Selection of 3 Address Council Members.

The Call for Nominations for the AC produced 8 nominees:

- Jan Czmok, Gigabell AG
- Amar Andersson, Telia AB/Telia Net
- Hans Petter Holen, SOL System AS
- Wilfried Woeber, Vienna University
- Daniele Bovio, America Online Inc.
- Sabine Jaume, RENATER
- Dave Morton, Cybernet AG
- Mark R. Measday - Josmarian SA

Rob started the selection procedure with a word of wisdom. He stated
that RIPE exists for 10 years now and the RIPE NCC has existed for 7
years. All policy making has been done on a consensus basis. Votes
have never been taken, therefore we have no well established
'election' procedure. In light of this, Rob thought it best to replace
the word election with selection.

Rob pointed out a few conclusions that were reached during the LIR-WG
meeting on Wednesday, 22 September 1999. A Memorandum of Understanding
exists and one of the requirements is to have an open and transparent
regional forum for policy making in the IP address area. The
conclusion was that the LIR-WG has played that role for 10 years
already. He reported that 100% of the current consumers of IPv4 and
IPv6 address space are covered. However, there may be other interest
groups that have not been reached that have an interest in the
future development of address policy but are not necessarily consumers
of IP address space to date.

The conclusion was that we need a better out-reach programme to make
sure that people are aware that this is the open and transparent forum
as mentioned in the ICANN MOU with regards to ASO.

This ad-hoc selection procedure is based on the MOU draft version
which describes that the policy making organisation i.e. the LIR-WG,
puts a selection procedure in place. A small problem arose this year:
the MOU has detailed timelines on how that should be done for example
that a call for nominations should be at least 90 days before the
selection procedure). The MOU had provisions for that, an article
stated that a modified procedure could be followed to select the
initial Address Council members. It was up to the LIR-WG to come up
with a different, but open and transparent procedure.

The LIR Working Group should producer two results:

- come up with a proper selection procedure for the election
(elections are held once a year).

- have in place a first draft of a selection procedure by the
next RIPE meeting in February 2000.

At the RIPE meeting in May 2000 an agreed selection procedure should
be in place. This will allow us to have proper elections for the next

The LIR Working Group could not conclude on a single process at such
short notice to have during the plenary session. It discussed whether
to conduct an election process by ballot or via the usual method:
consensus building.

The LIR-WG discussed the terms the initial members should have: 1, 2
and 3 years. Some participants thought this would not be a well
balanced procedure and proposed to give the members all a 1 year term.
It was decided however not to do this as the first year is such an
important year, and weakness could already emerge from day 1. Rob
personally thought this was a good argument.

Consensus was reached during the plenary session that although the
procedure was not perfect the candidates were good enough to be
trusted for 3 years.

One specific requirement for selecting the Address Council members
was that all 3 candidates should have a solid knowledge of IP
addressing. Another valid argument proposed was that the 3 members
should come from different industry backgrounds, at least one person
from a commercial company and someone with an academic background.

Four candidates from the list of 8 were present during the plenary
session. With regards to the profile criteria all 4 nominees attended
RIPE meetings regularly. Rob proposed to shorten the list of 8
nominees to the 4 people present at the RIPE Meeting plenary session.

Following some discussion during the plenary session, consensus was
reached: the 3 Address Council members were to be selected from the 4
candidates that were present that day.

Hans Petter Holen, Sabine Jaume, Daniele Bovio and Wilfried Woeber
all gave a short introduction about themselves to the attendees and
informed the attendees of their involvement with ICANN in the past.

Consensus was reached that the council members would run for a one
year, two year and three year seat. It was agreed to hold the
selection via a secret ballot. All people present at the plenary
session were eligible to vote except
for RIPE NCC staff.

The 3 chosen Address Council members were to decide amongst themselves
the terms of office (1, 2 or 3 years).

150 votes were counted.
Sabine Jaume, Wilfried Woeber and Hans Petter Holen were elected to
the ASO Address Council. Congratulations were extended to the 3 new
Address Council members.

- 8. - Reports from the working groups

Routing WG
Chair: Joachim Schmitz
Attendees: 84
Scribe: Els Willems/Ambrose Magee

Report from the RIPE NCC (JLS Damas)
Database development
- statistics
- re-implementation (finished around end of year)
RPSL transition
- after re-implementation, RIPE35
- issues discussed in transition doc to be prepared

Updates to RIPE 178 (C. Panigl)
Multicast Routing Projects

Exchange Points
- project at the LINX (G. Besch)
Proposed focus during RIPE35
!input welcome!

Routing between Europe and Asia - An Issue? (J. Schmitz)

Routing Information Service RIS (A. Antony)

RIPE project(to be published as RIPE-200)
Collect Internet routing table including different views
Store for "historical" analysis, statistics, ...
Work together with US groups

Reality Checking of the IRR (JLS Damas)

RIPE project (to be published as RIPE document)
Use RIS data, compare to IRR data
Detect "illegal" things, e.g.
- nonallocated announcements
- hijacked routes
Improve Internet routing and stability


29.R1 on G. Winters, J. Schmitz, RIPE NCC
Definition of the IRR and an AUP
- draft written, in progress -

31.R1 on RIPE NCC, D. Kessens, J. Schmitz
Basic design for an IPv6 IRR
- postponed -

32.R1 on RIPE NCC, JLS Damas
Prepare draft document on issues of RIPE-181 to RPSL transition
- in progress -

32.R2 on J. Schmitz
Write project definition for Routing Registry reality checking
- done -

Q: Bernard Tuy stressed that he thought it was very important
resurrect the MBone WG.
A: Joachim replied that he is not an MBone expert, he tried to find
someone to give a short overview, but couldn't find anyone. During the
next RIPE meeting an overview will definitely be given.

Database WG
Chair: Wilfried woeber
Attendees: 87
Scribe: Ambrose Magee

Summary not available yet.

Joachim said that when Wilfried develops a Task Force to make this
transition to RPSL, he has the support of the Routing Working Group
and himself as chair. Ipv6 is obviously for many people not yet an
issue, but it should definitely be delt with as well.

Wilfried stated that in the beginning it starts with the WG chairs,
collaboration between the various working groups. However the chairs
themselves cannot do all the legwork. They should therefore
identify a set of individuals to become vocal point for some kind
of interaction.

Chair: Niall O'Reilly
Scribe: Vesna Manojlovic
Attendees: 33
CcTLD Registries represented: 13

This short summary of the TLD-WG session was presented at the
closing plenary session of RIPE 34. Please see the RIPE 34
TLD-WG Minutes (when available) for more detail.


Future of TLD WG

The WG was closed.

Now that CENTR is established, it appears to be the
organisation which should best deal with most of the work
areas belonging to the TLD WG. It is hoped that a CENTR
working group will begin functioning soon and that it will
meet at RIPE 35.

Some work areas appear to fall more naturally to the
continuing RIPE DNS WG.

Work areas from the TLD-WG workplan were identified to be
entrusted to DNS-WG and to CENTR, as shown below.

Stability of the DNS Root
DNS Infrastructure Resources

Documentation and alignment of practices
Emerging Registries
Tools and Techniques


Input from other RIPE WG's

Input needed on specification of domain object for
next revision of code.
Operational difficulties around domain objects.

Need decision on migration of domain objects -- CENTR
to respond urgently.

Specification input deferred until migration path decided.


CENTR Update

Presentation by Fay Howard.

CENTR has incorporated, is recruiting a Technical Project
Officer, and is expected to have a technical programme,
with its own working groups.

CENTR is aware of problems wrt domain objects in RIPE DB
and is in active dialogue with RIPE NCC.

CENTR has had to concentrate on global ICANN and DNSO
issues, and now expects to have a more "European" focus.

Seven DNSO constituencies provisionally recognised, among
which ccTLD constituency. ccTLD's have elected 3 NC
members. Elections for ICANN Board follow in October.



Current Actions

TLD-33.1 [Chair]
Provide minutes for RIPE 32 TLD WG
Draft ready; kept open; to be reviewed on list.

TLD-33.2 [Chair]
Initiate discussion of issues arising around domain
objects in RIPE database.
Some discussion has taken place between interested
parties, especially RIPE-NCC, CENTR and certain
Transferred to CENTR, for decision during next week
(beginning 27 September 1999).

TLD-33.3 [Chair]
Request information from registries on whether they
are prepared to make their data available for pilot
project using HARMONIC interface.
NIC-FR is making contact directly.
OBE; closed.

TLD-33.4 [Chair]
Place Future Direction of TLD-WG on Agenda for
RIPE-34 and stimulate preparatory discussion on
mailing list.
Done; closed.

TLD-33.5 [All]
Contribute to workplan discussion on mailing list.
OBE; closed.


New Actions

TLD-34.1 [Chair]
Ensure loose ends are tidied up, in particular by
alerting inheritors of work areas and action items,
and by taking care of minutes.

Niall thanked everyone who supported the TLD Working Group
in any way; wether by participation or taking the minutes
at the meetings. And he thanked the RIPE NCC staff for the background
suppport that were always provided.

Christopher Wilkinson stated that we all owe Niall a heart
devoted thanks. 2 years ago we were in desparate need for a vocal point
for policy for TLD issues and we didn't have one, Niall volunteered.
It is not often that a RIPE BoF results in the creation of a new
international organization within 2 years.

Christopher also wanted to draw attention to the membership and
election in the ICANN structure and organization. The next stage is
the creation of an open at large individual membership for the ICANN
organization. ICANN is looking for at least 5000 initial individual
members from day one. He wanted to urge the RIPE membership to join
the ICANN at large membership as individuals. That is where they're
responsibilities now lie.

Rob noted that when CENTR starts a new Working Group, we have
offered them to have regular meetings at the same time and at same
facilities as the RIPE meeting. This in order to be as open and
transparant as possible. This is an action item for Rob, he
will follow this personally in the next few months.

Chair: Hans Petter Holen
Attendees: 89
Scribe: Eamonn McGuinness

Local IR Working Group; the open forum where policy is made.
Not just for Local Internet Registries but for all of you.

- IPv6 policy matters -> LIR WG?
- How to handle PI allocations vs setting up new LIRS?
- Reverse delegation process-> discussion on LIR WG to fully
understand all implications
- DB support for multiple domain objects

New Actions (1/2)
- Chair: Suggest clarification of WG charter
- Chair: Form a task force for documenting the existing
policy process
- Chair: Form a task force to define final Address council
selection procedure
- NCC: clarify LIR-RIR expectations in the audit process
- RB: suggest a selection procedure for the plenary - DONE

New actions (2)
- JA: additional value for the inetnum "status" field
- WG: Reverse delegation process -> discussion on LIR WG to
fully understand all implications
- NCC: Multiple domains in domain objects
- NCC: Proceed with plans to implement PGP as an option for
hostmaster communication
- NCC: Release source code to rtt due to demand
- WG: Discuss moving IPv6 policy matters to LIR WG

The LIR WG deals with issues that concern LIRs for example,
Local IR operation, and the local implementation of RIPE
policies and procedures are discussed here.

How do we establish policy?
- In the LIR WG
- Open to anyone to attend not just to LIRs
- By concensus

There was consencus that the proc. Described was open enough
and didn't need to be changed in any major way.

Task force for documenting the existing policy process
- announce the charter of the task force to the mailinglist
- interested parties may volunteer
- a draft will be posted to LIR WG for discussion
- a second draft will be based on that discussion
- the document will be endorsed by consensus at RIPE 35

Task Force:
- Aaron Hamilton, Cable & Wireless
- Sam Critchley, UUNET
- Tim Dimons, IS Products, UK
- Barbara Roseman, Frontier Globalcenter
- Hans van der Veer, Lucent tech
- Gordon Lennox, European Commission

Task force to define final Address council selection procedure
- announce the charter of the taskforce to the mailinglist
- interested parties may volunteer
- a draft will be posted for discussion
- a second draft will be based on that discussion
- The document will be endorsed by consensus at RIPE 35

Remember: it's your forum, be there!
Special thanks to RIPE NCC, keep up the good work!

Rob added this was a reminder for himself: a couple of actions
which have to be done by our new address council delegates.

The first one is that we should announce to the world that we have
3 council members. The 3 elected members should figure out among
themselves how the 1,2 and 3 year seats will be distributed.

A small discussion was to be held that day on how the address council
members will be reporting to the RIPE community at large.

The 3 council members had (within the next days after the RIPE 34
meeting) to think about a procedure for having a call for nominations
for 1 ICANN board director. This action would be closed during the
ICANN meeting at 2nd November.

Full minutes from the RIPE 34 LIR working group meeting can be
found at:

Chair: Ruediger Volk
Attendees: 39
Scribe: Bernard Tuy

1 sda recommendation
2 Dummy guide
6 Extended best practise
7 Fernando Garcia draft
4 ietf dnsops report (Lars Johan Liman)
5 swedish dnssec workshop report (Lars johan Liman)
3 yet another dns dos attack (Peter Koch)
8 potential work areas IPv6

Q: Rob: you working group is planning a workshop around the next RIPE
A: Ruediger: it seems it will be a good idea to push forward a DNSSEC
this way.

Test Traffic WG
Chair: Matthew Robinson
Attendees: 38
Scribe: Rene Wilhelm

Presentation by Henk Uijterwaal on current project.

Discussed ways of presenting the collected data

Discussed publicity available 'overview' of delays
- working on draft

Netnews WG
Chair: Felix Kugler
Attendees: 22
Scribe: Brad Knowles

Ongoing business
- newsbone satus report
- tools: improved traffic statisitics from inn

- Flowmaps:

- The future of this Working Group -> wants to continue!
- New Working Group chair -> Brad Knowles has volunteered

For ayone also interested in becoming chair of Netnews WG: the
deadline is 10th October 1999.

Brad Knowles wanted to add something about NHNS: not only are we
working to try to get the ISC to use NHNS to maintain the hierarchic
list for the big 8, we are also working with them to see if we can get
the NHNS tools included with the INN distribution as a standard part
of the package.

If you for example, try to run INN sinc to pick up the big 8 you can
automatically work with these tools. We are working to get these tools
encorporated within diablo. We will see if we can get in contact with
the maintainers of other newspackages and have them do the same.

Anti-spam WG
Chair: Rodney Tillotson
Attendees: 35
Scribe: Gerry Berthauer

- update on spam
- code of conduct
- assistance to certs
- help for owners of open relays

Update on spam
- little change in amount.
- No major techniques.

Direct marketing industry.
Legislation proposed
? BCP on operation of mailing lists?
Conference in London

Conde of conduct

Adopt as ripe document
depends on good take-up

Aassistance to certs

- reading mail headers
- collection of standard advice

Help for owners of open relays
- simple procedures
- target common products

Hope to come back with draft RIPE document next time.

Chair: Fearghas McKay
Attendees: 65
Scribe: Chris Fletcher

LINX - presentation.
VIX - presentation.
Equinix - presenation.
SCOTTIX - presentation.
RIPE NCC (Mirjam Kuehne). SubTLA's and IPv6. IX do not want to
allocate addresspace, this is a registries' role.
AIX - presentation.
Y2K - discussion.
Bill Norton - Results of paper on interconnection strategies for ISPs.

Fearghas also announced that security at IX's will be discussed during
the next meeting.

Q: Wilfried: with regards to the internet exchange IPv6 address
distribution, he was grateful that the EIX WG touched on it. He was
also relieved to find out that the recommendation will probably be
not do distribute IPv6 addresses in the framework of an exchange
point. He wanted to know if EIX WG intends to provid this feedback to
the editors of the relevant RFC or do they intend an update to this
RFC. It might not be a good idea to have information in an RFC which
is contrary to what a regional operations community would recommend
these days.

A: Fearghas: we will provide feedback to IPv6 WG, they will get that
back to RFC's.

David: stated that as chairman of IPv6, he will take it up with
authors of the aformentioned RFC's, to see what they have to say about

Keith had a suggestion for Rob, he felt that it is a good idea if we
had EIX and IPv6 Working Groups not scheduled in parallel next time.
EIX should also not overlap with the Routing WG.

Chair: David Kessens
Attendees: 90+
Scribe: Petra Zeidler

David stated at the end of his summary that sisco is now providing
the beta version of their IPv6 implementation for their routers to

EOF Tutorial?
Rob: informed the plenary session that EOF turned out to be
completely different from what everyone thought it would be.
Rob got some friendly remarks about the presentations that were given
instead and stated that we might turn this from a disaster into a
surprise feature.

Dfk: wanted to propose a new activity related to security issues in

We have had some things on various mailinglists about operational
coordination in order to track down denial of service attacks and
similar things. That has not led to a BoF this time, but Dfk thought
it would be a good idea to have a BoF during the next ripe meeting,
as some people are getting worried. Perhaps other coordination aspects
can be discussed here as well.

Dfk suggested that people who are interested in this should organize
a BoF for the next meeting. Dfk he stated that if people want to talk
to him, send an e-mail. A draft charter will be needed to form
this BoF. The draft charter will be discussed on a mailinglist which
will be set-up soon by the RIPE NCC.

Wilfried mentioned that there was an activity for a while within the
framework of the European research network. This was not succesful, he
personally really wants the RIPE community to come up with an
infrastructure to deal with these issues, such as operational
recommendations etc., and then find out if this is something that can
stand on its own legs. He stressed that he was really grateful
to Dfk for bringing it up.

- 9. - Next meetings

Offers were made by Daniele Bovio to host the May 2001 RIPE meeting in
Paris, France and by GARR/INFN to host the May 2002 meeting in
Bologna, Italy.

- RIPE 35 21-25 February 2000 Amsterdam
- RIPE 36 16-19 May 2000 Budapest
- RIPE 37 11-15 September 2000 Amsterdam
- RIPE 38 22-26 January 2001 Amsterdam
- RIPE 39 May 2001 Paris?
- RIPE 40 September 2001 Amsterdam
- RIPE 41 January 2002 Amsterdam
- RIPE 42 May 2002 Bologna?

- 10. - AOB

There was no other business to discuss.

- 11. - Close

Rob thanked everyone for attending and hoped to see everyone again
at the next RIPE meeting in Amsterdam, in February 2000.