Ulka Athale - 2024-05-22 16:00:39
Hi everyone, I'm Ulka Athale from the RIPE NCC. This chat panel is meant for discussion ONLY. If you have questions for the speaker and you want the question to be read out, please write it in the Q&A window stating your name and affiliation. Otherwise, you can ask questions using the microphone icon.
Please note that all chat transcripts will be archived and made available to the public at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2024/documentation-and-archives/
The RIPE Code of Conduct: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-766/
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 16:01:51
no audio
Livio Morina - 2024-05-22 16:01:55
same here
Markus Zeilinger - 2024-05-22 16:02:21
did it already start? No audio here!
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 16:02:28
Given the stenographer didn't write anything…I guess they didn''t start?
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:02:29
here we go
Job Snijders - 2024-05-22 16:02:47
Audio test worked?
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:02:52
yes
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 16:02:55
no
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 16:03:05
i do not hear you, job
Josha Prior - 2024-05-22 16:03:15
I did
Job Snijders - 2024-05-22 16:03:16
Thanks!
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 16:03:43
much better
Job Snijders - 2024-05-22 16:03:46
Thanks!
Joerg Vierke - 2024-05-22 16:10:16
cd
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:12:43
sounds painful
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:19:06
8 day meeting or that's a typo?
Tomas Jedlicka - 2024-05-22 16:19:40
Email discussion if I heard correctly.
Rob Evans - 2024-05-22 16:19:42
Email discussion.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:19:47
ah ok
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:19:51
was wondering :)
Athina Fragkouli - 2024-05-22 16:19:56
this was an asynchronous meeting by emails
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:20:26
If there is such a big problem around sunction, maybe it is time for the NCC should leave the EU jurisdiction?
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 16:20:46
that will not change the sanctions at all
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:21:46
EU's sanctions lists are pretty short compared to some jurisdictions tbh
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:22:31
Lets move to Serbia or Turkey or Dubai?
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:22:50
How about no?
Andreas Grabmüller - 2024-05-22 16:22:58
Not to mention that we have European in the name for a reason.
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 16:23:13
IMHO Sanctions are
a) useful
b) necessary
c) unavoidable
Hans Petter Holen - 2024-05-22 16:23:55
As you can see we have set up a separate legal entity in Dubai.
Hans Petter Holen - 2024-05-22 16:24:11
That does however not solve issues with banks.
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:24:19
Name is good, but it is need to save Money and stay work! SO LETS to Move to Dubai!
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:24:34
Dubai is not a cheap country
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:24:49
I don't see how moving to Dubai is going to save any normal person much :)
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:25:10
Hans Petter Holen - it is good movement!
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:25:25
picking up an RIR and dropping it in a different country is also something that likely comes with a hefty bill
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 16:25:42
banks schmanks, use bitcoin! :)
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 16:26:01
members-discuss shared many things but nothing changed...
Andreas Grabmüller - 2024-05-22 16:26:06
Even if it were possible, why would we want to move to a abolutistic monarchy?
Job Snijders - 2024-05-22 16:26:20
/me hands Randy Bush soap to wash his mouth ;-)
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:26:53
Michele Neylon - next step welcome Moscow - you like! Cheap and good safety life :-)
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 16:27:28
issues with bitcoin are how should you mark to the market and how much volatility should you accept compared to what you think it is worth yourself
Hans Petter Holen - 2024-05-22 16:27:40
We do have staff in Moscow, Ukraine, Armenia, Spain, UK in addition to NL and UAE.
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 16:27:46
there was a smiley
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:27:57
use bitcoin - is not good for official payment by organization
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:28:09
He was joking
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 16:28:40
indeed, it is for people who want to avoid currency controls and forget to declare xfers ;)
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 16:28:49
there was a smiley. but the intended implication is that we're not going to develop magic solutions here
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 16:29:10
Stable future for the RIPE NCC "and for the members" please.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:30:22
Murat - so they could announce that fees will go up by 5% per year - that would be nice and stable
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 16:30:35
nope
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:30:50
So you want to pay more?
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:31:05
Dubai - good selection. It is stay neutral for some years, but if Israel war will not grow. But Moscow much more comfortable for work and live.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:31:09
I wouldn't mind paying more. RIPE NCC membership is incredibly cheap for what it offers
Siyuan Miao - 2024-05-22 16:31:13
like apnic?
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:31:15
and compared to my other expenses
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:31:27
Alex - it's a drop in the ocean compared to other costs
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 16:31:28
like ARIN?
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:31:47
@michele, exactly
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 16:31:56
hear hear Alex :) RIPE feels incredibly cheap for what it offers
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:32:05
@Alex - MS support for 1 year was about 15k I think
Siyuan Miao - 2024-05-22 16:32:12
https://orbit.apnic.net/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/thread/7L27ICHVWZBEAT7XVDKGJ44O4YNQ5IIJ/#7L27ICHVWZBEAT7XVDKGJ44O4YNQ5IIJ
Michael Stenz - 2024-05-22 16:32:16
Alex - Michele. Please do not think that this is the same for everyone. RIPE NCC cost is 40% of my expense. So every increase influence on a high level. and there exist other extremely very small LIR's as well.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:32:19
and that's just support - not the actual licensing
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 16:32:35
Why don't we just stay in the Democracy we are in instead of moving to some autocratic country. Sounds like a good idea I would say.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:32:52
@michle, I can fund a significant portion of the NCC with the cost of my Juniper support contract :P
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:32:59
Michael - sure, but saying that 50 euro for an ASN is going to put you out of business as some have is ridiculous
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 16:33:10
Alex, I'm sure there are members which would enjoy if you pay there membership fee for them, too (if you would like to pay more);-)
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 16:33:16
For example, RIPE NCC is cheap for Sebastian :)
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:33:29
Michael Stenz - If that is truly the case, then perhaps you need to reconsider if membership is what you want to spend 40% of your budget on 🤷♂️
Andreas Grabmüller - 2024-05-22 16:33:42
Michael I wonder why you need to be a RIPE member if you are so small? Just get the five IPs you need from your datacenter...
Michael Stenz - 2024-05-22 16:34:37
Alex - private fund projects exists also in the market, not everything is just a big business
Michael Stenz - 2024-05-22 16:34:52
Andreas - Not easy if you need anycast.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:34:56
Robert Scheck - I would not automatically oppose a charging scheme that features some kind of sponsorship situation. Like we're already doing for PI, where the real cost is several times the 50 eur/y
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 16:35:02
should everyone have thousends of IPs to create own networking/routing environment? If the NCC for only big holders, i missed it...
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:35:10
I'm glad to see we start moving to serious thing discussion in NCC meeting.
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 16:35:57
Alex, PI is difficult, especially once it comes to IPv4, which is for many members a reason to become a member, right?
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:36:09
what's difficult about PI?
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 16:36:25
IPv4 PI is only secondary market nowadays.
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 16:36:32
I think you mean difficult to acquire?
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 16:36:39
IPv4 PA is the same?
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 16:36:43
I dont want to rely on the providers. Not stable. Thats why for example.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:37:08
you can't always get what you want... sometimes you have to make do with what's possible
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 16:37:37
but this is not a private company or private industry.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:37:40
and there are various options available if your business doesn't generate enough revenue to pay 2k/year for membership
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:38:02
Murat - it is a private industry
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:38:16
During the discussion of the payment scheme, I already suggested switching to paying for scarce resources with increased payments for them every year. If we do this, there will be a constant big increase in income. Will we be able to spend them effectively?
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 16:38:54
What exactly does that help?
Hans Petter Holen - 2024-05-22 16:39:12
The financial report is beeing presented right now.
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 16:39:14
what NCC offers is not private industry services.. or gain commercial gains.
either the resources..
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:39:19
Serbulov Dmitry - There are significant tax implications associated with a model like that
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 16:39:25
You are sort of discussing different things i think. Or, to make a productive observation: Maybe there should be a suggestion in the future for the ability to apply for LIR with some sort of hardship clause, which reduces payments. Resulting costs get distributed.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:40:18
Sebastian - I suspect some of us could support that
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:40:25
This will make the distribution of payments to members more equitable and force them the release of unused resources.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:40:38
No it won't
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:40:54
Serbulov Dmitry - No one will release anything. Any unneeded resources will go on the market, as they already do.
Siyuan Miao - 2024-05-22 16:41:00
People would just sell the resources, releasing them ... unlikely to happen
Siyuan Miao - 2024-05-22 16:41:19
s/release/return
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 16:41:31
And still this removes the focus to deploy IPv6.
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 16:43:04
in the corporate world, ipv6 has no incentive if you HAVE ipv4. No incentive means only strategic value, no business value which leads to low priority. You see the result in the deployment numbers.
I dont like it either, but thats the reality of things
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 16:43:29
so, its driven by external demand *shrug*
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 16:43:30
@alex it depends to pay 2k€ if you have /12 subnets or /24...
One of them earn from resources directly and one of them use the resources try to earn indirectly...
Any way this we can discuss in the mailing list.
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:43:35
Alex Le Heux - if it will be payment only 1 cent per IP you already start to thing: do you need it. If it will rise and rise you will think more and more! But it will be VERY VERY much money in NCC - can we work with it clear?
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 16:44:28
You are aware that you cannot advertise anything smaller than a /24, right?
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 16:44:31
Really, looks quite different to me. @Sebastian Jürges
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:45:02
Serbulov Dmitry - Any system like that which makes 1% of the members pay 99% of the budget will result in those members moving to a more reasonable RIR and leaving you to cover the entire budget on your own ;)
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 16:45:05
Yeah, i suppose it would be different depending on industry, circumstance and so on @sebastian becker
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 16:45:09
Charging per IP addresses .. is not a viable option due to taxation reasons.. this has been expressed before by the EB.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 16:45:14
Alex - yup
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:45:34
Erik Bais - There is that
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 16:45:45
@HPH is there a time on how long you keep the ultra high risk A/R around until they are written off as uncollectable?
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 16:46:13
kaj : if you have questions. please post them in Q&A window.
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 16:46:17
Kaj, that would IMHO be a good Q&A point :)
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 16:46:22
@Erik Bais: Exactly.
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:47:57
Alex Le Heux - it is only need to make free 15% of deficit resources. If it will be done we will not need more raise price, until again it stay less 10%.
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 16:48:16
done, thanks for the rec
Andreas Schmieja - 2024-05-22 16:48:29
@Erik Bais: I agree to you ... but why was the realy cause of the costs (sanctions) not part of the long discussion in the mailing list ?
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:48:32
Serbulov Dmitry - As Erik mentioned, any scheme that charges per IP has major tax implications
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:48:47
and is certain to increase the total cost by a lot
Ulka Athale - 2024-05-22 16:48:52
Please state your affiliation if you are asking a question
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:51:00
Alex Le Heux - For me the annual payment must consist of 2 parts:
- The FIXED part
- The VARIABLE part is directly dependent on the number of allocated
SCARCE resources (now IPv4 and AS32)
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:51:30
In the first year, we have to plan payments and budget so that:
- The FIXED part was about 1/4-1/2 of the planned budget
- The VARIABLE part covered the rest of the planned budget with a surplus
of at least 20%.
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 16:51:40
32 bit ASn's are not scarce resources ...
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 16:51:59
…depends on whom you listen.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:52:02
This is problematic for various reasons, tax reasons for one, as mentioned several times already
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:52:04
We must increase the payment for the PERMANENT part annually until at
least 15% of the resources become available for distribution.
At the same time, the community should allocate the funds received in
excess of the planned budget for the transition from IPv4 to IPv6 or other
new protocols. This can be the preparation of educational programs, the
translation of articles into local languages, the completion and
popularization of improvements to the IP stack or of training programs,
the development of software to simplify migration and other initiatives.
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:52:38
Erik Bais sory 16
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 16:53:09
This does not work.
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 16:53:32
'k let the EU just take over the RIR role and be done with it ... it's only stupid politics anyways today 😁
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:53:39
Sebastian Becker - it's already work someplace&
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 16:53:59
No, otherwise we had only IPv6 nowadays.
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 16:54:01
@Dmitry so you want to increase the payment for every LIR? I thought this was exactly the problem for some members.
Remco van Mook - 2024-05-22 16:54:11
if it really was that easy don't you think we'd have done that a long time ago?
Andreas Grabmüller - 2024-05-22 16:54:34
EY were the people who said Wirecard was golden, right?
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 16:54:38
me being me and having done a few pricing models in my life, most people tend to want easy to understand billing schemes. the more it looks like a polynomial equation the more allergy people tend to exhibit
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 16:54:48
Serbulov Dmitry - the 15% would be fone by the next day. IMOH the only solution to the problem is IPv4 to become worthless to investment companies. and come on IPv6 is old technology there were 20+ years to get educated on it.
Andreas Schmieja - 2024-05-22 16:55:18
@Andreas Grabmüller: Correct.
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:56:02
Sebastian Wiesinger - I see too way: Do nothing with IPv4 until all will stoped. Or to do something for more open business.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:56:17
I think we should double the membership fees.
Any member who shows up for, and votes in, the GM gets 50% off.
Membership participation and budget issues solved in one go.
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 16:56:50
@Alex: Nice idea.
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 16:56:58
some of us might be happy to pay not to have to listen to some of this :)/2
Clément Cavadore - 2024-05-22 16:57:08
Ahahahah !
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 16:57:11
that made me giggle @alex le heux
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:57:13
@randy Freedom of choice! :)
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 16:57:22
More money helps, too.
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 16:57:28
@Randy: 😁
Remco van Mook - 2024-05-22 16:57:39
can we also get an additional 10% discount for meaningful feedback about the activity plan and budget? :)
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 16:57:42
and for about €1500, you can just not join @Randy :D
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 16:57:49
Alexander Leefmann - 10-15% free is mean the price for resouces is good.
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 16:57:58
@Remco: Don't go too far!
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 16:57:58
Remco van Mook where can I apply? :P
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 16:58:16
while I know Alex said it as a joke, paying for votes is actually illegal in many jurisdictions ;)
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 16:58:50
Doh. Back to the drawing board.
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 16:58:51
Äh, you can vote without participation.
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 17:01:02
mic volumes have dropped a lot - almost inaudible
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 17:01:23
Yes, mic of HPH is very low.
Brian Storey - 2024-05-22 17:01:25
yup
Job Snijders - 2024-05-22 17:01:32
It’s super loud in the room
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 17:01:55
Then we maybe hear a room mic?
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 17:02:05
the only mic at a sensible level is the queue mic - even speaker was very low
Job Snijders - 2024-05-22 17:02:17
I passed it on to HPH
Rob de Meester - 2024-05-22 17:02:20
Thanks for reporting the low volume on Meetecho, we are looking into it.
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 17:02:41
Randy Bush - agree but realy 7% won to srop 93%. Do you know:
37.48% resources used 25 members or 0.12% of the membership
47.35% resources used 1,350 or 6.7% of the membership
15.17% resources used m 18,790 or 93.18% of the membership
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 17:02:48
the queue mics are fine volume-wise
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 17:02:59
audio volume is fine here, bit with headphones, if at all, a bit too loud but might be me :)
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 17:04:30
https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/member-and-community-consultations/charging-scheme-2025-consultation/charging-scheme-2025-q-and-a/ - the penultimate paragraph
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 17:05:27
the queue mic level is fine. but the others are way to quite.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:06:11
Publish suppliers? Not sure how I feel about that
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 17:06:54
HPH mic much better
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 17:06:59
yes
Joachim Tingvold - 2024-05-22 17:07:17
Speaker mic is still low, though.
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 17:07:31
Yes, Simon is low.
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 17:07:47
Is it the goal to micro manage the RIPE NCC if Pavel is getting on the RIPE EB ?
Ulka Athale - 2024-05-22 17:08:01
@Michele would you like your comment to be read out?
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:08:02
sounds like it
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:08:07
Ulka - yes please
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 17:08:12
It sounds like a well-meaning attempt to increase transparancy
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 17:08:13
@Eric: I hope, not.
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 17:09:10
But it is a well known fact that a lot of contracts have non-disclosure agreements for your discount. I would say almost all of them. So this is unrealistic and he should know that?
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 17:09:19
A little naive to suggest only using suppliers who are willing to forego an NDA though.
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 17:09:28
Yes
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:09:32
100%
Remco van Mook - 2024-05-22 17:09:35
that will drive down the cost for sure
Siyuan Miao - 2024-05-22 17:09:36
Exactly
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 17:09:44
i live doing business practices research via chat
Joachim Tingvold - 2024-05-22 17:09:49
They could still publish supplier names without publishing prices, though?
Joachim Tingvold - 2024-05-22 17:10:04
The NDA is mostly for prices, AFAIK.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:10:11
not always
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 17:10:16
If you want special deals you need to agree to special terms and conditions. Otherwise you will pay the public available price. Not sure if many member swill like that. :)
Andreas Wittkemper - 2024-05-22 17:10:25
One of the most entertaining gm chats ever :)
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:10:27
we have plenty of clients who do not want anyone to know we are a supplier
Joachim Tingvold - 2024-05-22 17:11:01
@Michelle, but thats the inverse of what we're talking about here, though?
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 17:11:34
please raise the speakers mic level - i cannot hear the response
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 17:11:38
if ripe does soc2/iso27001 eventually they have to disclose pretty much any vendor as part of the system description and whatever is getting audited. similarly a gdpr disclosures tend to need to specify the data processors. it is not realistic to insist that the american bookstore in amsterdam would need to be disclosed on the vendor list ;)
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 17:11:40
mic2 camera mic is very low
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 17:11:42
how would a UA NCC office transfer the income to amsterdam.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 17:12:20
Randy Bush - bitcoin, duh!
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 17:12:27
aha!
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 17:12:29
In gold and diamonds?
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 17:12:37
I prefer Dogecoins
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:12:43
ewww
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 17:12:49
RIPEcoin then?
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 17:13:00
RIPEcoins... hmm nice idea! ;-)
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 17:13:03
What I don't get: One member from Ukraine can pay, another can't. Hu?
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 17:13:13
Perhaps use some pony's and run across the Polisch border..
Siyuan Miao - 2024-05-22 17:14:39
Different banks may have different rules ... E.g. for us, Bank A doesn't allow us to pay to CTE while Bank B has no issues at all.
Ulka Athale - 2024-05-22 17:16:06
@Dmitry Serbulov - would you like me to read out your comment?
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 17:16:56
yes
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 17:25:47
@randy they didn't read your question but the board is discharged every year
Rob Evans - 2024-05-22 17:25:56
@Randy -- it's a standing agenda item.
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 17:26:03
thx
Marco d'Itri - 2024-05-22 17:26:59
@Randy: the board is discharged every year. I understand the recurrent confusion of some members because in my jurisdiction this does not happen either. But I am/have been a member or official in associations under different european jurisdictions where this happens every time
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 17:27:01
it is a mandatory item each financial year. and typically passes if there are no misconduct financially on the previous year.
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 17:27:08
I appreciate the great explanation though because every year there are some people who seem not to understand what they're voting for.
Ulka Athale - 2024-05-22 17:27:40
@Randy Please let me know if you would like me to read out your question after the current presentation.
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 17:27:57
@ulka no thanks
Job Snijders - 2024-05-22 17:29:13
Discharging the board is a resolution the members vote on later today/tomorrow
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 17:30:02
the financial books of last year are typically examined by an Accountant or in smaller assoc's by some members that are provided full insight on the finances.. these members are typically named a "kas commissie" in Dutch.. which translates into englisch to a 'Books committee" those are normally appointed in a GM.. in case of the RIPE EB, it is done by an accountant.. as expressed earlier by Simon-Jan.. And no questions or remarks found. ( Which is good. ).
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 17:33:59
What is not good idea doing is now planning a budget beyond 2025. In the current situation, it is best to planning minimum 50% increase in costs at least.
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 17:34:42
inflation is not going to be 50% in EU regardless on how you calculate it
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 17:35:01
🍿
Athina Fragkouli - 2024-05-22 17:35:11
@Randy Bush, about question in Q&A: A resolution to discharge the board is in the GM agenda every year and it refers to activities as described in the Annual/Financial of the previous year.
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 17:35:21
Kaj Niemi - inflation not started. All in future.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:35:34
50%? I think we'd all starve
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 17:36:10
ECB projections say 2.0% in 2026
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 17:37:05
Michele Neylon - In Russia 199x it was 100% and more in Turkey it 50% now. So 505% it will be good process.
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 17:37:52
in wein, rpki was considered optional. our opinions move in time. no surprise, this is good.
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 17:38:03
arguably eurossystem is slightly different than RU and TK
Maria Merkel - 2024-05-22 17:38:17
RPKI would probably still be controversial whether it is required
Maria Merkel - 2024-05-22 17:38:28
really anything other than IPs and ASNs will be
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:39:04
Each activity? Huh? How on earth would that work?
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 17:39:11
it cannot
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:39:24
Also I've no interest in micromanaging the NCC
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 17:39:29
Kaj Niemi - I say you only one thing. If in all countries in EU is deficit budget. Where they take money? Do you know? Simple: They start print it! It is done every time.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:39:33
General direction - sure
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 17:39:38
Michele Neylon - Very badly. Someone's trying to pull another Afrinic.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:39:44
beyond that - hell no
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:40:00
Alex - I'd hope not
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 17:40:18
what alex said is very true and a real threat
Constanze Buerger - 2024-05-22 17:40:34
agree
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:40:45
Members need to engage on the plan - not just whine about fees
Constanze Buerger - 2024-05-22 17:41:07
😀
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 17:41:15
Michele Neylon - THIS.
Send the board input about the activity plan.
PLEASE.
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 17:41:23
🍿
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:41:34
Alex - See I would if I thought they were doing something silly
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:41:44
As of right now I've no issue with most of it
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 17:42:04
Michele Neylon - I replied to you, but my pleading was to the membership at large :)
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:42:11
:)
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 17:42:44
It's too late to talk about changing the scheme now - these are the rules of the NCC. An increase in costs is now inevitable. I am sure that the problems will be even more difficult at the next meetings. It's good that we at least started moving to Dubai.
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 17:43:31
nobody is moving to DXB, it was said by the CFO a while ago that the people working there will be employed locally but nothing is moving there. at least that was how I understood it
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 17:43:49
they literally just confirmed this as well
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 17:45:24
@hph, thans!
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 17:47:20
i just realized that this meeting is to explain why job is not re-upping for the EC position
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 17:48:02
+1 to Brian
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 17:48:24
YES!
André Grüneberg - 2024-05-22 17:49:03
+1
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 17:49:04
Participation is fantastic. Mailing lists are not. Maybe that would be an action point: use ... something else ? (or is it just my aversion to email) ?
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 17:49:09
+1
Josha Prior - 2024-05-22 17:49:13
+1
Ondrej Filip - 2024-05-22 17:49:46
Do you have any specific suggestion?
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 17:50:08
I heard icecream I'm interested
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 17:50:28
something more modern, along the lines of slack or the likes. Anyhting that is not as static and clunky as mail @ondrej ?
Clément Cavadore - 2024-05-22 17:50:29
*free* icecream.
Ondrej Filip - 2024-05-22 17:50:39
OK, thank you
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 17:51:07
should I put that in Q&A?
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 17:51:50
@Sebastian you mean something like IRC? I'm down for that
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 17:52:02
oh god. the only thing worse than mails xD
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 17:52:03
Slack - Worst IRC client ever.
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 17:52:12
haha
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 17:52:14
No, please nothing that requires synchronous discussion. we're in too many different timezones for that.
Oscar Pouwels - 2024-05-22 17:52:30
Discord
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 17:52:32
dont focus on slack. could be discord for all i care. or a forum.
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 17:52:33
IRC with a free ZNC - gotcha
Maria Merkel - 2024-05-22 17:52:35
I feel like we have too many participants for something chat based
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 17:52:36
I can read mails when I have time and reply in peace. I don't have to watch some slack channel all the time.
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 17:52:52
+1
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 17:52:54
i thought too little participation was a problem ?
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 17:53:14
for such a large group I can't think of a better tool then email.
Chano Klinck Andersen - 2024-05-22 17:53:23
What exactly is wrong with a mailing list? A quick filter, and the mails are not in your inbox, but a folder where you can read and reply as you like.
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 17:53:44
many people might feel it's a bit dated, I guess. I don't have an alternative myself
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 17:54:09
regardless of email versus slack/discord/irc etc, it still doesn't alter that ~1000 out of 20k members are the ones who noisily participate
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 17:54:22
might be a personal issue ;) or a generational. I hate mail with a fierce passion.
Chano Klinck Andersen - 2024-05-22 17:54:27
It's an old technology, but it kinda works. The only alternative I see, that could work more or less as well, would be Usenet, but I guess that kinda died a decade ago.
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 17:54:40
@Ian: I think many (smaller) LIR's might just not know or care
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 17:54:49
I propose we give out free megaphones and the local LIRs will hear eathother
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 17:54:55
Rule #1 of Usenet .. Don't mention Usenet ..
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 17:54:57
🤣
André Grüneberg - 2024-05-22 17:55:02
@Ian: I think the noise rather comes from one or two dozen of people.
Wolfgang Tremmel - 2024-05-22 17:55:05
email is a proven, distributed, provider independent technology.
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 17:55:21
asynchrony
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 17:55:22
i was being polite about the numbers :-)
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 17:55:42
If you want to solve the problem that the LOUD and EXTROVERT people take over everything on the Internet - if you want to solve that problem first, good luck
Chano Klinck Andersen - 2024-05-22 17:55:49
Exactly Wolfgang, and doesn't require you to remember visiting yet another service, where you need yet another account.
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 17:56:26
We also have a forum for people who like asynchrony but don't like email... https://forum.ripe.net/
Give it a go...
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 17:56:43
And you get free service tickets at multiple companies.
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 17:57:02
@Fergal I fully expected a phpBB but was happily surprised to see a discourse board
Chano Klinck Andersen - 2024-05-22 17:57:09
Ah.. Yes.. The forum.. Yet another website you need to remember visiting. :P
André Grüneberg - 2024-05-22 17:57:41
@Chano: You may configure Discourse to work almost like a mailing list for you.
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 17:57:42
You can also use Discourse to follow threads via email, which is nice for the email fans.
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 17:57:55
yes forum appears to be the current trend that everyone must have, that ends up empty and echoing because people don't visit
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 17:58:02
Exactly that, André
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 17:58:05
Can I also reply via email?
Andreas Schmieja - 2024-05-22 17:58:07
Fergal: Forum? another channel of discussion ?
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 17:58:20
Chano Klinck Andersen - maillist or forum or anu other - it is need working group.
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 17:58:20
Yes you can, Alexander.
Chano Klinck Andersen - 2024-05-22 17:58:20
Ian I thought the forum trend also died a decade ago. :P
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 17:58:21
@Alexander yes
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 17:58:26
nice
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 17:58:51
O balakitnie come...
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 17:58:55
i still see new forums popping up unasked for
Brian Storey - 2024-05-22 17:59:21
The platform isn't necessarily the problem, it's just that it often isn't a particularly pleasant place to be. There is also a questionable level of "discussion".
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 17:59:52
the forum is actually quiet and technical. let's fix that. :)
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:00:07
you want it to be loud and not-technical? :D
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 18:00:59
👏👏
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 18:01:28
I even started a thread for post-GM discussion so you can just try it out there...
https://forum.ripe.net/t/post-gm-discussion-for-members/970
Job Snijders - 2024-05-22 18:01:56
We are still in the middle of it! :-)
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:02:40
Fergal Cunningham - for what purpose?
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 18:04:09
Dmitry, people are asking about options apart from email to have discussions like this. So if anyone wants to see how that would work on a forum, there's a thread where people can try it out.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:04:34
Yeah Fergal, how dare you give people what they ask for! ;)
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:04:48
and here we go again: Micromanagement
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 18:05:19
Alex, you know that's my favourite thing :)
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 18:05:23
@Tom van den Berg : Perhaps get started with voluntary work on the WG's .. it is very hard to find people to assist on regular WG tasks.. let alone ask them to do day to day operations or development tasks for free.
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 18:06:00
Activity Based Costing is difficult to implement properly and imposes a cost by itself to implement...
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 18:06:14
(the cost per ticket discussion)
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:06:15
we are a community and a not for profit organisation. stop treating it as a business.
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 18:06:54
true, but sad - activity based fees don't seem to fly
Remco van Mook - 2024-05-22 18:06:57
if we're to do costing on every last action the ncc does we'd increase overhead by 25% minimum
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 18:07:07
indeed
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:07:22
Maybe we should do a survey among all NCC members, what do they want: to pay less and not have access to scarce resources, or to pay more but have access to scarce resources?
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:07:35
there's a member survey every year
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 18:08:12
The only scarce resource right now is IPv4 and that's already gone.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:08:20
no - our time
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:08:21
@Serbulov how would paying more create more scarce resources (assuming you mean V4 prefixes)?
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:08:32
more emails = waste of time
Wolfgang Tremmel - 2024-05-22 18:08:43
Perhaps if you dig deeper you find some more IPv4 prefixes....
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:09:20
Daniel Preussker - make flat payment for each Ipv4
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:09:21
Serbulov Dmitry - what scare resource? and what is the threshold that the result of such a survey needs to reach to be accepted by you?
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:09:43
@Serbulov that already exists; 50 EUR per assignment
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:09:55
the only resource that's scarce here seems to be acceptance of the fact that free IPv4 space is over and done with.
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 18:09:56
serbulov dmitry - make flat payment for each LIR
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:10:15
Alexander Leefmann - I wrote it earlier.
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:10:15
@Alex +1
Kaj Niemi - 2024-05-22 18:10:17
whether you are a for profit or non-profit does not change how an organization is really run, @alexander. a "non-profit" will need to make profit to be able to operate ;) the for profit can return it to their shareholders in form of dividends. the dutch non-profit seems to be able to return to offset membership fees. that is pretty much it in difference. but really, what happens is that you pay year one and get it back less inflation the next year if there is something to get back.
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 18:10:25
@Alex: +1
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:10:30
no no Alex, you don't get it. IPv6 is scary and we should keep doing IPv4 only!
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:10:34
/s
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 18:11:13
May I rise IPv4+?
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:11:42
Just get rid of the 10./8 space and also that pesky link local range! what did those ever do for you huh?
/s
Wolfgang Tremmel - 2024-05-22 18:11:43
IPv9
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 18:12:26
engineer says: PRESS PLAY xD
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:12:42
can they just send us youtube links?
Josha Prior - 2024-05-22 18:13:09
I need to cook dinner.
Winfried Haug - 2024-05-22 18:13:18
The more you use, the more you pay. So the fee should reflect the amount of IPs you have, not the block assigned
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 18:13:29
we have much echo
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 18:13:31
labs article on common fantasies: ipv4 will not be needed in five years, unused ipv4 will be returned to the rirs, ipv6 is infinite, ...
Chano Klinck Andersen - 2024-05-22 18:13:32
Audio is echoy..
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:13:34
Sebastian if 85% of scared resources is used by 7% of members - that is they roles in NCC?
Jan Kuipers - 2024-05-22 18:13:34
needs more reverb
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 18:13:36
REALLY bad audio
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 18:13:46
thanks
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:13:48
oh that's better
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:13:48
Thanks for audio fix
Marc Neuckens - 2024-05-22 18:13:49
better now
Chano Klinck Andersen - 2024-05-22 18:13:50
Perfect now.
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:13:59
thank you for fixing that
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:14:03
Kaj Niemi - well if I am not for profit my goal is to have enough budget to run the organisation. IF I am for profit my goal is to maximise the profit and I am willing to cut cost only to maximise the profit. I don't like the idea that we cut the budget, let's day on ripe atlas just to keep the membership fees low so that some members can maximise their profit
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 18:14:13
@Serbulov: So beging an ISP is a bad thing?
Winfried Haug - 2024-05-22 18:14:20
so a member with 4 * /22 pays more than one with 2* /20 ... very strange
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:14:37
that is a fair point @Winfried
Winfried Haug - 2024-05-22 18:15:04
so a flat fee for the membership itself and the the ip space used per address...
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:15:34
@Winfried I agree, a per /24 fee might be more "equal" and "fair" if you even want to use those terms.
Andreas Grabmüller - 2024-05-22 18:15:36
well it worked for a while...
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 18:15:42
AAAND bluescreen? impressive, considering its a mac 🤣
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:15:50
Didn't we get rid of the usage-based XS, S, M, L, XL charging scheme a few years ago?
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:15:55
why exactly bring it back?
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 18:15:56
*buffering* ... .
Winfried Haug - 2024-05-22 18:16:00
So very large companies with large IP space pay the not much more than smaller LIRs
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:16:35
Sebastian Becker - It is impossible to be an Internet provider now. Because without Ipv4, there is no way to work in a competitive business.
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 18:16:48
Pling! And the video is stuck again?
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:17:08
um
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:17:10
uff the audio got rought
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 18:17:11
if only we would have a member at RIPE that could provide a proper CDN ... for buffer free video streams..
Livio Morina - 2024-05-22 18:17:19
bene, ma non benissimo
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 18:17:21
@Serbulov: So you think making the work impossible for the existing ones will solve the problem?
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 18:17:21
You can still buy IPv4 so.., 🤷♂️
Ulka Athale - 2024-05-22 18:17:27
The video will be uploaded on the website
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:17:35
Ulka - thanks
Andreas Wittkemper - 2024-05-22 18:17:42
Strange, that it is that bad today
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 18:17:43
this is the worst audio at a GM i have experienced :-(
Andreas Grabmüller - 2024-05-22 18:17:53
I mean RIPE is a bunch of technical professionals, what could go wrong... :D
Wolfgang Tremmel - 2024-05-22 18:18:02
Just split the whole IPv4 address space into all /24 and distribute it evenly and the problem solves itself.
Livio Morina - 2024-05-22 18:18:04
Ian: budget cut
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:18:10
Serbulov Dmitry - I'm an ISP. Putting the fiber in the ground costs me $1000/subscriber on average. Their IP costs me $35 or something.
You can be an ISP if you want to.
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 18:18:11
I'd love to buy Bitcoins with the 2011 price or Apple shared with the 1985 price or whatever.. but I cannot do that either
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:18:39
Alex Le Heux - category scheme really nothing changing - it was tolken year ago
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 18:18:54
@Alex, not the cost, share the earning from the IPv4s...
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 18:18:55
@Wolfgang: And who will receive that: Everyone? I can have my own now? ;-)
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:19:09
"the earning from the IPv4" - what earning?
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:19:36
Let's just lower the prefix burden for BGP from a /24 to a /31 and we all got enough IPs for CGNAT /s
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:19:38
Sebastian Becker - paying on a /24 bases would not make it impossible for your company to be an ISP would it? ;) (not saying, that I would support such an proposal)
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 18:20:07
@Michele, where are you living?
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 18:20:15
it wasnt a question..
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 18:20:37
@Alexander: I did not state that. But as you ask: It will not change anything.
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 18:20:49
You will not get a block free from that
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:22:17
that's what I was thinking. In the end I am with Alex, that we need to get over the fact, that IPv4 is not available for new parties.
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 18:22:22
to receive ip blocks back or back free is not the problem. The problem is, that the people pay too much in proportion of what they use.
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:22:34
Sebastian - 7% members use 85% IPv4. Looks like you are one of them :-).
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:22:34
if nothing else, it would reduce complaints about unequal charging
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:22:50
although I feel like RIPE is very cheap, even if you're just using a single /24
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 18:23:12
this is just the usual argument where people think they are "special" and want other members to subsidise them
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 18:24:31
Does the stenographer mix up moon and Mac? ;-)
Winfried Haug - 2024-05-22 18:25:01
well this year it is too late, but there is time for the next gm to make a proposal for a better charging model
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:25:57
Alexander Leefmann - of course but someone sell it for 35 EU. And do not pay even 1 cent to RIPE for it unused before sell. Strange thing :-)! Looks like Somebody decide to make good business on scare Ipv4
Murat Terzioglu - 2024-05-22 18:26:06
EB decides, what to propose, at the end.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:26:20
based on member input
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:26:33
if you don't give them any input then they have to decide in a vaccum
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:26:47
and input is to the plan - not the fees proposal
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:27:51
Murat Terzioglu - the decision is made by voting. So far, all NCC members have the same rights.
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:28:40
Serbulov Dmitry - welcome to the world of capitalism. It is time to find another business case which does not need IPv4.
Rob Evans - 2024-05-22 18:28:43
#hugops
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 18:29:39
apnic fees are (well, were when i was in asiapac) proportional and voting is too.
Winfried Haug - 2024-05-22 18:30:30
Is there a Mc Donalds (operated by Ripe NNC) in Amsterdam with a flat fee independent of the amount of Burgers you consume per year ? :-)
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:31:01
Alexander Leefmann - will we shoot all those who disagree, as in Slovakia? Or put in jail like in the USA?
Ian Dickinson - 2024-05-22 18:31:34
no - we listen to you
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:32:02
Serbulov Dmitry - when did I say that? Also a bold statement from someone who supports going to Dubai.
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:32:39
yikes this escalated quickly I was just off to get my free* icecream
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:34:23
Alexander Leefmann - need to move to Dubai is in order to somehow NCC work in two years, not because I like it.
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:35:01
You're going to have to explain how NOT moving to Dubai would stop the NCC from functioning
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 18:35:03
Why do you keep repeating this? The NCC will work fine in two years. Why wouldn't it? And how would Dubai fix this?
Hans Petter Holen - 2024-05-22 18:35:35
Ondrej did state in his slide#17 that the board will look into the charging scheme: "We have taken this on board and we are determined to address this in the longer term"
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:36:11
@Sebastian - the E in RIPE stands for Dubai obviously /s
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:37:20
Michele Neylon - Michel Nylon - if you are talking me how to solve the problem of the EU countries fatal budget deficit, I am telling you how to stay in the eurozone and be stable.
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:38:08
what
Brian Storey - 2024-05-22 18:38:30
a veiled statement...
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 18:39:21
Some wise person once said.. : "Don't feed the trolls!"
Chano Klinck Andersen - 2024-05-22 18:40:01
What about Ogres, can we feed them? :P
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:40:11
We can feed the trolls to the orgres maybe?
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:40:14
Only with trolls.
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 18:40:18
yes, I like Shrek!
Will van Gulik - 2024-05-22 18:40:27
@Alex i was going to suggest that.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:40:55
I think we have consensus.
Will van Gulik - 2024-05-22 18:41:05
we totally do.
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 18:41:12
👍
Sebastian Becker - 2024-05-22 18:41:16
+1
Chano Klinck Andersen - 2024-05-22 18:41:21
Feed trolls to Ogres.. I support that.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:41:52
The $1.000.000 question is... Did someone put procuring an Orgre in the 2024 Activity Plan?
Winfried Haug - 2024-05-22 18:42:04
Hans Peter Holen: all 3 charging schemes are far away for a fair distribution of costs. No survey - no will to talk about a more fair model:-(
Erik Bais - 2024-05-22 18:42:15
Are Ogre's a scares resource ?
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:42:19
I feel like members should be allowed to vote on such an activity @Alex!
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 18:42:27
they at least have layers!
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:42:31
@Erik ogrebroker.com has plenty
Chano Klinck Andersen - 2024-05-22 18:42:38
Erik, not as much as Trolls will be, if we feed the Ogres with them.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:43:29
@Evert Ogre Procurement Plan A, B or C
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:43:45
so at 10% it's pretty clear that most members don't engage
Ulka Athale - 2024-05-22 18:44:21
The candidate videos are now available on the website: https://www.ripe.net/membership/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2024/documentation-and-archives/presentations/
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 18:44:34
Thanks for the quick upload
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 18:44:52
that was unexpected, thanks, too!
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:44:53
May be it is fun, but. 3 years ago I say we need have discussions on meetings and decide problems at Ipv4. 2 years ago I say here: inflation will be the main problem. Year ago I say: payments will be problem let's move somewhere. Now I say eurozone RIP will be next our problem.
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:44:57
ty Ulka!
Will van Gulik - 2024-05-22 18:45:44
Thanks for the fast upload Ulka and team !
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:45:56
Serbulov Dmitry if the eurozone goes rip we have a different problem then the RIPE NCC fees.
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 18:46:05
Have voters received their voting emails?
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:46:10
yes
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:46:11
I did
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 18:46:11
Yes
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:46:13
yup
Randy Bush - 2024-05-22 18:46:13
i did
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 18:46:17
Super!
Chano Klinck Andersen - 2024-05-22 18:46:20
I've got mine @Fergal
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:46:27
Man I wish IPv4 would've only been an issue 3 years ago and not 6+
Will van Gulik - 2024-05-22 18:46:39
@Fergal Yep, received my codes too.
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 18:46:46
Thanks for the confirmation.
Alex Le Heux - 2024-05-22 18:46:57
@Daniel 🤣
Remco van Mook - 2024-05-22 18:47:00
so ipv4 only started to become an issue in 2021 - totally
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:47:31
IPv4 and Covid on the same year? coincidence??? /s
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:47:59
Alexander Leefmann - when USSR die it was to much problems too. But if you are ready for it you will work. If not - will die!
Constanze Buerger - 2024-05-22 18:48:10
not yet
Remco van Mook - 2024-05-22 18:48:17
Pfizer is behind the current charging scheme proposal - that makes so much sense
Constanze Buerger - 2024-05-22 18:48:36
depends on v4 only
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:48:38
I need to buy shares
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:48:41
So the invoices will now be blue?
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:48:52
oooo
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:49:19
Daniel Preussker - yes because it was first time then online meeting start working good!
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:49:31
can we vote on invoice color for next GM? I propose Pink
Remco van Mook - 2024-05-22 18:49:33
blue and diamond shaped
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 18:49:48
Gold!
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:49:57
I want polka dots
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:50:06
Polka Dots are paid addon, sorry
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:50:12
BORING
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:50:18
5 EUR per dot - for the budget
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:50:18
charging scheme D
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:50:27
for Dots
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:50:32
++
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:50:36
Internet Explorer still a thing?
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:50:40
but can I use Mosaic?
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 18:51:01
If it's in the slide, someone has tried/asked :)
Evert Amssoms - 2024-05-22 18:51:05
or Lynx?
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:51:18
it looks horrible in lynx/w3m - just tried
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 18:51:22
🎂
Robert Scheck - 2024-05-22 18:51:28
elinks? ;)
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:51:38
Who is trying to use Curl?
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:51:51
😬
Remco van Mook - 2024-05-22 18:52:06
curl is so much easier if you're trying to brute force the system
Alexander Leefmann - 2024-05-22 18:54:08
do we need a budget for a task force?
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:54:19
create a task force for that!
Michele Neylon - 2024-05-22 18:54:23
Proportional representation isn't complicated
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 18:54:24
the task force will be provided with free icecream
Remco van Mook - 2024-05-22 18:54:29
first we need a committee for the process
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 18:54:30
we need an activity plan item for a budget fpr a task force
Joachim Tingvold - 2024-05-22 18:55:08
soft-reconfiguration inbound
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:56:09
Opt C. for me
Sebastian Wiesinger - 2024-05-22 18:56:59
👏
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:57:00
aplause
André Grüneberg - 2024-05-22 18:57:01
👏
Joachim Ernst - 2024-05-22 18:57:07
👏
Sebastian Jürges - 2024-05-22 18:57:09
👏
Sascha Lenz - 2024-05-22 18:57:16
c'ya!
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:57:41
I this russian bear?
Sebastien Brossier - 2024-05-22 18:57:46
Thank you everyone
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:57:50
that's Wojtek
Ulka Athale - 2024-05-22 18:58:07
Voting is now open and the GM will reconvene on Friday, 24 May at 10:30 UTC+2 for the GM voting result announcement.
Fergal Cunningham - 2024-05-22 18:58:18
Thanks all. And if you have problems with your voting, email [email protected]
Daniel Preussker - 2024-05-22 18:58:33
Thanks for the great trollbox everyone, see you next time
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:59:02
Wojtek - slavianin too. So it's sirian russian bear!
Serbulov Dmitry - 2024-05-22 18:59:18
Goodby all!