18:23 < Alun_RIPENCC> Hello everyone - I'm Alun from the RIPE NCC. If you have any questions for for any of our speakers, please give me your name, affiliation and regid and I'll go to the mic on your behalf.
18:23 < cynthia> audio loop
18:24 < cynthia> Alun_RIPENCC: please get someone to fix the audio loop
18:25 < cynthia> oh nvm
18:25 < cynthia> my client
18:25 < cynthia> I apologize
18:25 < Alun_RIPENCC> All good?
18:25 < Alun_RIPENCC> No problem.
18:38 < Drixter> test, skip
18:38 < pascal_ch_lan> skipped ;)
18:54 < Drixter> its very silent, do you also have such feeling?
18:55 < pascal_ch_lan> *applause* too ;)
18:55 < Alun_RIPENCC> I'll raise it.
18:58 < be_servperso> Anyone already receive voting link from ripe ncc ?
18:58 < Aziraphale> not me
18:58 < carlos_pt_rccn> i didn't
18:58 < pascal_ch_lan> they are usually sent after.
18:58 < be_servperso> Ok thanks, first time i vote as a new LIR ;)
18:58 < carlos_pt_rccn> i sent out an email. but some minutes later i noticed those will only be sent when agenda item 10 is reached
18:59 < ElvisVelea> it has been almost impossible to land on this page (webcast)
18:59 < pascal_ch_lan> but don't worry, you have enough time to vote.
18:59 < Alun_RIPENCC> That's correct. The voting link has not been sent out yet. We'll send it out shortly.
19:00 < ElvisVelea> not just the voting link, the link to the webcast/remote participation does not exist
19:00 < ElvisVelea> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2019/
19:00 < ElvisVelea> compare this to https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2015/
19:01 < foobar_124837> stream just went offline for me
19:01 < cynthia> the stream went down for me
19:01 < rsc> For me the stream is dead.
19:01 < uk_prt_8676> the webcast just stopped
19:01 < pascal_ch_lan> yep, down
19:01 < MarkV> The stream is dead
19:01 < iand-uktfmnet> me too
19:01 < raider-12857> same here
19:01 < Drixter> same here
19:01 < ElvisVelea> I only found the link because I edited -2015 to -2019 in the link
19:01 < pt_teotonio> :\
19:01 < ripe_727> same here
19:01 < steven> same here
19:01 < ripe_853> same here
19:01 < ElvisVelea> here as well
19:01 < rsc> Lack of Internet in Iceland? ;-)
19:01 < ru_enicom> no video
19:01 < ripe_129> stream went down
19:01 < masterF00> jup, dead +1 :)
19:01 < tr_ereey> stream gone
19:01 < Aziraphale> vlc won't even connect
19:01 < Aziraphale> whoops
19:02 < rsc> It says "Video file not found"
19:02 < Alun_RIPENCC> Apologies. We had a technical issue. We are taking a break till the webstream is rebooted.
19:02 < pt_teotonio> Thank you.
19:02 < masterF00> thanks for waiting 8> ;)
19:02 < rsc> Alun_RIPENCC: May you ask the speaker to repeat the last few sentences? And thanks for waiting :)
19:03 < ru_rednet> video stream is down
19:03 < ElvisVelea> I tried to read the transcript but I can't scroll up, keeps coming down to the last words :)
19:03 < Alun_RIPENCC> We expect to have the webstream up and running again in the next few minutes. Apologies.
19:03 < foobar_124837> Alun_RIPENCC: thanks
19:03 < raider-12857> ElvisVelea: there was a direct link in the "Participate remotely" mail from [email protected] before 18:00 utc
19:04 < MarkV> it is up again
19:04 < ripe_807> 40 million a year. Can't get a decent live stream running
19:04 < ElvisVelea> that's right, it was there
19:04 < uk_prt_8676> Yay, working :)
19:04 < pt_teotonio> Yes, it's working here.\
19:04 < foobar_124837> stream working again from here too.
19:04 < pascal_ch_lan> working :)
19:04 < ElvisVelea> usually a link was also on the GM page
19:04 < ripe_727> thanks, working again
19:04 * uk_prt_8676 makes thankful noises at the RIPE tech crew.
19:04 < cynthia> working
19:04 < ElvisVelea> not really working
19:05 < Alun_RIPENCC> To confirm. We are taking a break until the issue is resolved. Gwen will pick up from the start of the slide. Thank you for your patience.
19:05 < ElvisVelea> audio keeps cutting down
19:05 < raider-12857> ripe_807: the stream was running fine all the day ...
19:05 < pascal_ch_lan> Elvis, audio is fine here
19:05 < carlos_pt_rccn> i've reloaded and video and audio are fine
19:05 < masterF00> for now it's fine here (VLC link)
19:05 < rsc> Thanks, works again here.
19:06 < Aziraphale> yep back here too
19:06 < ripe_324> video down?
19:07 < simonvik> Up again it seems
19:07 < masterF00> still fine for now
19:07 < Aziraphale> at least the rtsp stream works
19:07 < ElvisVelea> works on the site, vlc keeps cutting audio for me
19:07 < Aziraphale> dunno about the website one
19:07 < pascal_ch_lan> http (m3u8) in vlc too
19:07 < ElvisVelea> :))
19:07 < Alun_RIPENCC> Everything should now be running as it was earlier.
19:08 < ripe_149> Mike_mysltd
19:08 < Aziraphale> there are 808 LIRs with 0 registrations?
19:08 < Aziraphale> Why?
19:08 < pascal_ch_lan> idk, their problem :P
19:08 < ElvisVelea> maybe Legacy holders?
19:09 < pascal_ch_lan> good point
19:09 < Aziraphale> true, could be that
19:11 < pascal_ch_lan> so the 1-3 LIRs which are probably a lot of /22 "grabbers" are going to be cross-financed by the few larger ones........
19:11 < ElvisVelea> what task force? did they have a task force for this charging scheme or is Gwen referring to the task force from 5-10 years ago?
19:11 < be_servperso> Oh, that poor LIR with 80k€ yearly bill
19:12 < ElvisVelea> sub-allocations are listed in my resources, will those cost as well under option B?
19:12 < pascal_ch_lan> yep, they're going to make RIR tourism elsewhere
19:12 < pascal_ch_lan> Elvis, ask
19:12 < ElvisVelea> asking :D
19:12 < iand-uktfmnet> the largest LIR i've noticed, fragmented their holdings to sell IPs - i doubt they'll like option B
19:12 < pascal_ch_lan> ask officially ;)
19:12 < ElvisVelea> not sure who is chat monitor
19:12 < pt_teotonio> Are we able to vote against A and B options?
19:12 < Alun_RIPENCC> hi Elvis
19:12 < pascal_ch_lan> Alun_RIPENCC is
19:13 < ElvisVelea> Q1: was there a task force for this charging scheme or is Gwen referring to the task force from 5-10 years ago?
19:13 < Alun_RIPENCC> What affiliation Elvis?
19:13 < Alun_RIPENCC> And regid?
19:13 < ElvisVelea> Q2: sub-allocations and legacy assignments are currently listed in my resources, will those cost as well under option B?
19:13 < ElvisVelea> V4Escrow LLC, us.v4escrow
19:14 < Alun_RIPENCC> thanks
19:14 < Alun_RIPENCC> i'll ask
19:14 < ElvisVelea> thanks
19:15 < Roel_Arcadiz> I'm still missing the volume of IP's in the voting options.
19:16 < pt_teotonio> Volume of IPv4, because IPv6 should be free, at least while it isn't the standard.
19:16 < carlos_pt_rccn> B is not about volume of addresses, it's about volume of records
19:16 < ElvisVelea> so if I make 1000 sub-allocations, I will pay tens of K
19:16 < pt_teotonio> We should promote IPv6, starting charging for it doesn't help too much
19:17 < rsc> Question: Did I really get correctly, that sub-allocations would be charged with scheme B as well separately? (Robert Scheck, ETES GmbH, de.etes)
19:17 < carlos_pt_rccn> pt_teotonio, fully agree. it doesn't help too muc
19:17 < carlos_pt_rccn> h
19:17 < ElvisVelea> that means that the RIPE NCC and this current charging scheme is advising to not register anything in the DB any longer
19:18 < rhe-786> rsc: Yes, anything listed as a registration in the LIR portal (afaik).
19:18 < carlos_pt_rccn> elvis: sort of... :-)
19:18 < Aziraphale> I'm more worried about many small ISPs giving their ipv6 allocs back
19:18 < Aziraphale> if they don't plan to roll it out this year, why pay for it?
19:19 < pt_teotonio> Aziraphale: exactly my thought
19:19 < pascal_ch_lan> let's say this
19:19 < ElvisVelea> Question: so if I make 1000 sub-allocations, I will pay tens of K more than if I do not make those sub-allocations. Is the RIPE NCC now advising that the LIR should no longer register anything in the DB ?
19:19 < ru_enicom> Can a comparative calculator be made in the LIR portal between schemes A and B?
19:19 < Alun_RIPENCC> Hi Robert Scheck: Gwen answered yes to your question. Do you have a follow up question?
19:19 < ElvisVelea> stream is down again
19:20 < carlos_pt_rccn> not here
19:20 < carlos_pt_rccn> still working
19:20 < masterF00> it's fine here
19:20 < ElvisVelea> back here as well
19:20 < Steven_903_> still fine
19:20 < ElvisVelea> was down maybe 10 secods
19:20 < Roel_Arcadiz> do we want to compare deutsche telecom with 30M IPv4 addresses, and a revenue of 75B with a LIR with 1k addresses?
19:20 < carlos_pt_rccn> Sounds like Lu Heng :-)
19:20 < ElvisVelea> seconds*
19:20 < ElvisVelea> it is Lu Heng :)
19:20 < brian-1213> Hang on, no, we're not talking about sub-allocations being charged, we're talking about assignments. It's registrations in the LIR Portal, as listed today.
19:20 < brian-1213> Not registrations in the DB.
19:21 < ElvisVelea> Alun, are you still in the queue?
19:21 < rhe-786> Yes, that, bad wording on my part, sorry.
19:21 < pt_teotonio> If deutsche telecom doesn't want to pay for those 30M IPv4, they can free them to other LIRs that need them.
19:21 < Alun_RIPENCC> yes
19:21 < Alun_RIPENCC> elvis
19:21 < sdy_moscow> Hi It is istoric way to make charge for small number resurces/ It is need to pay for addresses (ipv4) not fo memmbers
19:21 < ElvisVelea> brian - in the LIR Portal you can see sub-allocations made to you by an other LIR. not sure who would pay for it, though
19:21 < Alun_RIPENCC> still want me to ask?
19:22 < rsc> Alun_RIPENCC: I don't have a follow up question, if you raise the question of ElvisVelea.
19:22 < ElvisVelea> yes
19:22 < carlos_pt_rccn> pt_teotonio: despite what some people think, when transfers are allowed, the addresses are seen as assets. "free them" would be really "lease or sell them"
19:22 < Alexey> Hi. I have a question. How did you count that 2000 euro for the SSA is optimal?
19:23 < Alun_RIPENCC> affiliation?
19:23 < pt_teotonio> carlos_pt_rccn: by "free them" i mean, give them back to RIPE
19:23 < Alun_RIPENCC> Sorry. But I do need an affiliation and a regid in order to ask your question.
19:23 < brian-1213> ElvisVelea: Clearer now?
19:24 < carlos_pt_rccn> "give them back to RIPE NCC" when they can monetize it......???
19:24 < pt_teotonio> carlos_pt_rccn: ;)
19:24 < Alexey> What do you think about unused allocations, allocated before 2012? The NCC could fee for these resources.
19:24 < ElvisVelea> well, Gwen said that everything that you can see in the portal will be a registration entry and will have to be paid for
19:24 < sdy_moscow> Now IPv4 looks like in old time England and Landlords.
19:25 < pt_teotonio> RIPE even allow them to "advertise" that sell
19:25 < ElvisVelea> sub-allocations show up there, so they will have a registration entry, unless either I misunderstand or Gwen did not explain correctly
19:25 < Aziraphale> no, it's not the same as Enclosure
19:26 < pascal_ch_lan> did we discuss this in Amsterdam already?
19:26 < Aziraphale> IP addresses weren't a commons that everyone could use before
19:26 < ElvisVelea> anyway, questions 3, answers 0 :) moving on
19:26 < brian-1213> ElvisVelea: My reading of everything that is said is that nobody should be paying twice for the same resources.
19:27 < ElvisVelea> than what I see now in the portal and what I will see if version B is voted will be different
19:27 < Roel_Arcadiz> so what is the best voting option if you want change, but are not happy with B?
19:27 < Aziraphale> "consider the objections"?
19:27 < raider-12857> ElvisVelea: for me, your question was answered by hans petter
19:27 < ElvisVelea> ok
19:27 < ripe_494> As far as I understand scheme B, every ALLOCATED-PA block as well every ALLOCATED ASN you see in lirportail after first IPV4 ALLOCATED-PA block, first IPV6 ALLOCATED-BY-RIR, first ASN will be charged +50 euro
19:27 < brian-1213> Yes, what HPH said.
19:27 < Alun_RIPENCC> Any questions for Linda Slaakweg?
19:27 < Aziraphale> as in "your objections have been taken on board and will be given due consideration"?
19:28 < be_servperso> With B scheme, we see some change of LIR asn offer. For now alot of people come to ripe LIR to get free maintenance ASN.
19:28 < be_servperso> If B is adopted, i think we see fulltable reduced a bit
19:30 < pascal_ch_lan> Alun_RIPENCC: Pascal Gloor, Quickline, ch.lan: How are members supposed to gather 100 signatures? Will all the members be informed of an opposition and give everyone the opportunity to 'sign' ?
19:31 < Alexey> My propose is the option C, when the members fees for resources, received before 2012
19:31 < Aziraphale> Alun_RIPENCC: Sascha Luck, for Rapid Broadband: What does "consideration" mean? Does it bind the Board to *do* something or can they just consider it into the nearest recycling bin?
19:31 < Alun_RIPENCC> thanks pascal
19:31 < Alun_RIPENCC> in the queue now
19:31 < Alun_RIPENCC> thanks sasha
19:32 < ru_rednet> I guess the better option will be to charge LIRs that have never announced their addresses and keep them for re-sell
19:32 < pt_teotonio> "IMPORTANT: Your Electronic Voting Link for the RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2019" received now.
19:32 < be_servperso> Ye, received too but not open now
19:33 < rsc> ru_rednet: which doesn't make sense either, because various prefixes for re-selling are being announced currently...
19:35 < Alun_RIPENCC> Are there further questions?
19:35 < pascal_ch_lan> I'm good. Thanks ;)
19:35 < Alun_RIPENCC> Please remember to give me your affiliation and regid so I can keep track of who's asking. :)
19:38 < Alexey> What do you think about the restriction that SSA can be sent one by one only?
19:39 < iand-uktfmnet> that seems a reasonable restriction
19:47 < cynthia> if you see this, Thank you for your hard work for these 19 years Nigel.
19:47 * iand-uktfmnet claps
19:50 < be_servperso> Bird is used by alot of IXP and some small ASN. Great job ;)
19:51 < Alexey> Lags
19:53 < pascal_ch_lan> nice talk ;)
20:00 < pascal_ch_lan> ...
20:01 < pt_teotonio> :|
20:03 < x8y> A non-techie running for it... Meh.
20:03 < pascal_ch_lan> was thinking the same
20:04 < brian-1213> The community and membership are far more than just techies.
20:04 < brian-1213> I mean, vote for her, don't vote for her, but I would never dismiss based on that.
20:05 < x8y> Right... Still someone with a commercial helps RIPE how? Don't see any way around that idea :)
20:05 < pascal_ch_lan> brian-1213: I agree, but that just popped into my mind, that's all
20:05 < brian-1213> I don't care if Exec Board members can configure a router, that's not their job.
20:05 < x8y> *commercial background
20:06 < brian-1213> The RIPE NCC makes and spends a lot of money.
20:06 < brian-1213> The members make and spend a lot of money.
20:06 < aaronw-174> One of the points of a board is to provide guidance to a company and if that guidance is coming from different places of experience it's not necessarily a wrong move
20:06 < brian-1213> Commercial and regulatory backgrounds will become increasingly important.
20:07 < aaronw-174> this is 2019, not 1999
20:07 < brian-1213>
20:07 < x8y> it is a non-profit at the end of the day. IF it had a commercial part, sure. Go for the underdog all the way!
20:07 < Aziraphale> hm, a board made up of marketeers and lawyers is not my ideal one
20:07 < rhe-786> https://www.ripe.net/about-us/executive-board/ripe-ncc-executive-board-functions-and-expectations
20:07 < brian-1213> Aziraphale: Didn't say that either. There's almost certainly some middle ground here. :)
20:08 < asbjorn> A mix is important, currently there is no lack of techies on the board
20:08 < pascal_ch_lan> you've got a point
20:08 < aaronw-174> Don't forget, the RIPE NCC actually has the techies, the job of the board is to guide and to delegate the work of the company to the company because presumably they hired people that know how to do their job
20:08 < pascal_ch_lan> I'm a strong believer of diversity as a +
20:08 < Aziraphale> huh, turnout is getting better
20:09 < Aziraphale> last few times it was 7% or so
20:09 < brian-1213> It's increasing, certainly. :)
20:10 < x8y> Ahh... The decisive moment is finally upon us. Concentrate and vote people :P
20:10 < brian-1213> Meh, voting is open for *ages*
20:10 < pascal_ch_lan> wait, we can't reject both?
20:11 < brian-1213> pascal_ch_lan: Nope.
20:11 < pascal_ch_lan> don't we usually vote yes/no, thus giving us the possibility to reject it?
20:12 < brian-1213> Well, ususally the question is "New scheme or continue with current" So it's kind of the same.
20:12 < rhe-786> pascal_ch_lan: That happened once, certainly, but unless one of them got >50% then the existing plan stayed in situ.
20:12 < brian-1213> Because there has to be *some* charging scheme.
20:12 < pascal_ch_lan> you're right. got it
20:12 < rhe-786> I.e. option A
20:17 < Alexey> Option B for resources received before 2012 with /22 equivalent
20:18 < Aziraphale> ah, the intricacies of STV
20:19 < Aziraphale> we have that discussion every general election ;p
20:19 < pascal_ch_lan> yeah, it always creates discussions ;)
20:19 < pascal_ch_lan> exactly, thanks blake ;)
20:21 < brian-1213> Institute proper PR-STV, then at least we can have the argument about a better voting system. :)
20:21 < ripe_352> Is option A to keep things the same and B the new charging scheme?
20:22 < aaronw-174> ripe 352 I think so
20:22 < ElvisVelea> if you abstain instead of option A or B at the charging scheme vote, than that will mean that option A (keep same one) wins and the board gets the message that they need to work on a better charging scheme
20:22 < ElvisVelea> A is to keep the same, B is to move to the new one
20:22 < pascal_ch_lan> brian-1213: Is that the irish variant?
20:22 < pascal_ch_lan> Alun_RIPENCC: thanks for your work ;)20:24 < rsc> Alun_RIPENCC: Is it intended that the webstream is frozen now? Doesn't it cover the sealing of the paper ballot box?
20:24 < foobar_124837> stream is dead for me too
--- Day changed Thu May 23 2019
--- Day changed Fri May 24 2019
10:45 < Alun_RIPENCC> Hello all. Alun from the RIPE NCC here acting as chat monitor.
10:48 < Alun_RIPENCC> The General Meeting is now closed.