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[db-wg] RIPE-NONAUTH AS-SET bug fix

denis walker

2022-12-08 16:43:04 CET

Colleagues

There is some support for the idea that if AUT-NUM objects in
RIPE-NONAUTH authorise the creation of AS-SET objects, these set
objects will also be in RIPE-NONAUTH. There is also support for this
to be considered as a bug from the implementation of 'NWI-5 Out of
region ROUTE(6)/AUT-NUM objects'. So existing AS-SET objects whose
creation was authorised by one of these RIPE-NONAUTH ASNs can be moved
to RIPE-NONAUTH as part of a bug fix.

Does anyone have any objections to such a 'bug fix'?

cheers
denis
co-chair DB-WG

On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 at 19:34, Nick Hilliard <nick _at_ foobar _dot_ org> wrote:
>
> Cynthia Revström wrote on 30/11/2022 22:59:
> > I am not sure if this feature is used or not however I think this is a
> > very good reason to not go forward with a clean-up (at least until we
> > have properly evaluated things).
> > We will probably have to figure out some other way to deal with
> > objects that are currently causing issues I think.
>
> the "feature" is used, yes.  Some providers have customers in different
> RIR service regions.  Some organisations have address space registered
> in different RIR service regions. It's impossible to avoid in many
> situations.
>
> What's important right now is to close off the option to create new
> unqualified as-set names, and to move the existing qualified non-RIPE
> ASxxxx:as-set objects from source: RIPE to source: RIPE-NONAUTH.
>
> Denis was correct that this was a bug during the implementation of NWI-5
> (not ripe-731 which I mistakenly quoted).
>
> After that, we can afford to spend a bit of time looking at potential
> clean-up options.  There are 1590 empty as-set objects.  700 of these
> haven't been updated in the last 5 years, and some going back 20 years.
>
> I wouldn't lose too much sleep about deleting empty as-sets.  Contact
> people, set a timeout, and then delete.  Worst case, people can
> reference new, qualified as-sets.
>
> Nick
>

denis walker

2022-12-14 12:12:43 CET

Colleagues

Just a quick reminder in case you missed the previous email. Looks
like no one has any objections...

cheers
denis
co-chair DB-WG

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 at 16:43, denis walker <ripedenis _at_ gmail _dot_ com> wrote:
>
> Colleagues
>
> There is some support for the idea that if AUT-NUM objects in
> RIPE-NONAUTH authorise the creation of AS-SET objects, these set
> objects will also be in RIPE-NONAUTH. There is also support for this
> to be considered as a bug from the implementation of 'NWI-5 Out of
> region ROUTE(6)/AUT-NUM objects'. So existing AS-SET objects whose
> creation was authorised by one of these RIPE-NONAUTH ASNs can be moved
> to RIPE-NONAUTH as part of a bug fix.
>
> Does anyone have any objections to such a 'bug fix'?
>
> cheers
> denis
> co-chair DB-WG
>
> On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 at 19:34, Nick Hilliard <nick _at_ foobar _dot_ org> wrote:
> >
> > Cynthia Revström wrote on 30/11/2022 22:59:
> > > I am not sure if this feature is used or not however I think this is a
> > > very good reason to not go forward with a clean-up (at least until we
> > > have properly evaluated things).
> > > We will probably have to figure out some other way to deal with
> > > objects that are currently causing issues I think.
> >
> > the "feature" is used, yes.  Some providers have customers in different
> > RIR service regions.  Some organisations have address space registered
> > in different RIR service regions. It's impossible to avoid in many
> > situations.
> >
> > What's important right now is to close off the option to create new
> > unqualified as-set names, and to move the existing qualified non-RIPE
> > ASxxxx:as-set objects from source: RIPE to source: RIPE-NONAUTH.
> >
> > Denis was correct that this was a bug during the implementation of NWI-5
> > (not ripe-731 which I mistakenly quoted).
> >
> > After that, we can afford to spend a bit of time looking at potential
> > clean-up options.  There are 1590 empty as-set objects.  700 of these
> > haven't been updated in the last 5 years, and some going back 20 years.
> >
> > I wouldn't lose too much sleep about deleting empty as-sets.  Contact
> > people, set a timeout, and then delete.  Worst case, people can
> > reference new, qualified as-sets.
> >
> > Nick
> >
User Image

Job Snijders

2022-12-14 12:21:51 CET

Dear all,

No objection from my side. I personally think Denis’ proposal is a
reasonable progression aligned with the original intent of NWI-5.

As Maurice Moss (IT Crowd) famously said: “I’ll just put this over here
with the rest of the fire” [1]

Kind regards,

Job

[1]:
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ill-just-put-this-over-here-with-the-rest-of-the-fire

On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 at 15:14, denis walker via db-wg <db-wg _at_ ripe _dot_ net> wrote:

> Colleagues
>
> Just a quick reminder in case you missed the previous email. Looks
> like no one has any objections...
>
> cheers
> denis
> co-chair DB-WG
>
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 at 16:43, denis walker <ripedenis _at_ gmail _dot_ com> wrote:
> >
> > Colleagues
> >
> > There is some support for the idea that if AUT-NUM objects in
> > RIPE-NONAUTH authorise the creation of AS-SET objects, these set
> > objects will also be in RIPE-NONAUTH. There is also support for this
> > to be considered as a bug from the implementation of 'NWI-5 Out of
> > region ROUTE(6)/AUT-NUM objects'. So existing AS-SET objects whose
> > creation was authorised by one of these RIPE-NONAUTH ASNs can be moved
> > to RIPE-NONAUTH as part of a bug fix.
> >
> > Does anyone have any objections to such a 'bug fix'?
> >
> > cheers
> > denis
> > co-chair DB-WG
> >
> > On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 at 19:34, Nick Hilliard <nick _at_ foobar _dot_ org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cynthia Revström wrote on 30/11/2022 22:59:
> > > > I am not sure if this feature is used or not however I think this is
> a
> > > > very good reason to not go forward with a clean-up (at least until we
> > > > have properly evaluated things).
> > > > We will probably have to figure out some other way to deal with
> > > > objects that are currently causing issues I think.
> > >
> > > the "feature" is used, yes.  Some providers have customers in different
> > > RIR service regions.  Some organisations have address space registered
> > > in different RIR service regions. It's impossible to avoid in many
> > > situations.
> > >
> > > What's important right now is to close off the option to create new
> > > unqualified as-set names, and to move the existing qualified non-RIPE
> > > ASxxxx:as-set objects from source: RIPE to source: RIPE-NONAUTH.
> > >
> > > Denis was correct that this was a bug during the implementation of
> NWI-5
> > > (not ripe-731 which I mistakenly quoted).
> > >
> > > After that, we can afford to spend a bit of time looking at potential
> > > clean-up options.  There are 1590 empty as-set objects.  700 of these
> > > haven't been updated in the last 5 years, and some going back 20 years.
> > >
> > > I wouldn't lose too much sleep about deleting empty as-sets.  Contact
> > > people, set a timeout, and then delete.  Worst case, people can
> > > reference new, qualified as-sets.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
>
> --
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change
> your subscription options, please visit:
> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/db-wg
>
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Sander Steffann

2022-12-14 12:57:58 CET

Hi,

> Just a quick reminder in case you missed the previous email. Looks
> like no one has any objections…

No objection from me!
Sander

denis walker

2022-12-16 10:29:50 CET

Colleagues

The chairs agree that we have a consensus on making this change and
regarding it as a bug fix on the implementation of NWI-5. We therefore
ask the RIPE NCC to implement this bug fix when it is convenient to
fit it into their development plans.

It can be done in two stages:
1/ Creating any new AS-SET object authorised by an ASN in RIPE-NONAUTH
will also have the source RIPE-NONAUTH
2/ Any existing AS-SET object that was created with authorisation by
an ASN in RIPE-NONAUTH will have it's source changed to RIPE-NONAUTH

cheers
denis and William
co-chairs DB-WG

On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 at 12:12, denis walker <ripedenis _at_ gmail _dot_ com> wrote:
>
> Colleagues
>
> Just a quick reminder in case you missed the previous email. Looks
> like no one has any objections...
>
> cheers
> denis
> co-chair DB-WG
>
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 at 16:43, denis walker <ripedenis _at_ gmail _dot_ com> wrote:
> >
> > Colleagues
> >
> > There is some support for the idea that if AUT-NUM objects in
> > RIPE-NONAUTH authorise the creation of AS-SET objects, these set
> > objects will also be in RIPE-NONAUTH. There is also support for this
> > to be considered as a bug from the implementation of 'NWI-5 Out of
> > region ROUTE(6)/AUT-NUM objects'. So existing AS-SET objects whose
> > creation was authorised by one of these RIPE-NONAUTH ASNs can be moved
> > to RIPE-NONAUTH as part of a bug fix.
> >
> > Does anyone have any objections to such a 'bug fix'?
> >
> > cheers
> > denis
> > co-chair DB-WG
> >
> > On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 at 19:34, Nick Hilliard <nick _at_ foobar _dot_ org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cynthia Revström wrote on 30/11/2022 22:59:
> > > > I am not sure if this feature is used or not however I think this is a
> > > > very good reason to not go forward with a clean-up (at least until we
> > > > have properly evaluated things).
> > > > We will probably have to figure out some other way to deal with
> > > > objects that are currently causing issues I think.
> > >
> > > the "feature" is used, yes.  Some providers have customers in different
> > > RIR service regions.  Some organisations have address space registered
> > > in different RIR service regions. It's impossible to avoid in many
> > > situations.
> > >
> > > What's important right now is to close off the option to create new
> > > unqualified as-set names, and to move the existing qualified non-RIPE
> > > ASxxxx:as-set objects from source: RIPE to source: RIPE-NONAUTH.
> > >
> > > Denis was correct that this was a bug during the implementation of NWI-5
> > > (not ripe-731 which I mistakenly quoted).
> > >
> > > After that, we can afford to spend a bit of time looking at potential
> > > clean-up options.  There are 1590 empty as-set objects.  700 of these
> > > haven't been updated in the last 5 years, and some going back 20 years.
> > >
> > > I wouldn't lose too much sleep about deleting empty as-sets.  Contact
> > > people, set a timeout, and then delete.  Worst case, people can
> > > reference new, qualified as-sets.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
User Image

Ed Shryane

2022-12-16 13:01:53 CET

RIPE NCC staff member 

Hi Denis,

The DB team will implement this change, including an impact analysis in advance.

Regards
Ed Shryane
RIPE NCC


> On 16 Dec 2022, at 10:29, denis walker <ripedenis _at_ gmail _dot_ com> wrote:
> 
> Colleagues
> 
> The chairs agree that we have a consensus on making this change and
> regarding it as a bug fix on the implementation of NWI-5. We therefore
> ask the RIPE NCC to implement this bug fix when it is convenient to
> fit it into their development plans.
> 
> It can be done in two stages:
> 1/ Creating any new AS-SET object authorised by an ASN in RIPE-NONAUTH
> will also have the source RIPE-NONAUTH
> 2/ Any existing AS-SET object that was created with authorisation by
> an ASN in RIPE-NONAUTH will have it's source changed to RIPE-NONAUTH
> 
> cheers
> denis and William
> co-chairs DB-WG
>
User Image

Ed Shryane

2023-01-24 16:55:33 CET

RIPE NCC staff member 

Hi Denis,

Here is an impact analysis for this change:

* This change will increase the size of the RIPE-NONAUTH database. Up to now, objects could not be created in the RIPE-NONAUTH database (only updated or deleted).

* Approximately 76 existing AS-SET objects referencing an aut-num object in RIPE-NONAUTH will have the source changed to RIPE-NONAUTH. We will notify the maintainer(s) accordingly.

* Approximately 3 existing AS-SET objects referencing an ASN with no matching aut-num object in RIPE or RIPE-NONAUTH will also have the source changed to RIPE-NONAUTH and notify maintainer(s).

* When an inter-RIR transfer of an AS number occurs, any AS-SET referencing the corresponding aut-num will have its source changed to match.

Otherwise Whois behaviour is unchanged.

We are implementing this change and will include in a Whois release shortly.

Regards
Ed Shryane
RIPE NCC



> On 16 Dec 2022, at 13:01, Edward Shryane via db-wg <db-wg _at_ ripe _dot_ net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Denis,
> 
> The DB team will implement this change, including an impact analysis in advance.
> 
> Regards
> Ed Shryane
> RIPE NCC
> 
> 
>> On 16 Dec 2022, at 10:29, denis walker <ripedenis _at_ gmail _dot_ com> wrote:
>> 
>> Colleagues
>> 
>> The chairs agree that we have a consensus on making this change and
>> regarding it as a bug fix on the implementation of NWI-5. We therefore
>> ask the RIPE NCC to implement this bug fix when it is convenient to
>> fit it into their development plans.
>> 
>> It can be done in two stages:
>> 1/ Creating any new AS-SET object authorised by an ASN in RIPE-NONAUTH
>> will also have the source RIPE-NONAUTH
>> 2/ Any existing AS-SET object that was created with authorisation by
>> an ASN in RIPE-NONAUTH will have it's source changed to RIPE-NONAUTH
>> 
>> cheers
>> denis and William
>> co-chairs DB-WG
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/db-wg
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Ed Shryane

2023-02-06 11:51:03 CET

RIPE NCC staff member 

Dear Colleagues,

The upcoming Whois 1.106 release will include the requested change below: an AS-SET "source:" will be set to "RIPE-NONAUTH" if the AUT-NUM is in "RIPE-NONAUTH".

We will also update *existing* AS-SET objects "source:" address accordingly when we deploy the Whois 1.106 release on Monday 20th February.

We will notify the maintainers of all affected AS-SET objects by email today.

Regards
Ed Shryane
RIPE NCC




> On 24 Jan 2023, at 16:55, Edward Shryane via db-wg <db-wg _at_ ripe _dot_ net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Denis,
> 
> Here is an impact analysis for this change:
> 
> * This change will increase the size of the RIPE-NONAUTH database. Up to now, objects could not be created in the RIPE-NONAUTH database (only updated or deleted).
> 
> * Approximately 76 existing AS-SET objects referencing an aut-num object in RIPE-NONAUTH will have the source changed to RIPE-NONAUTH. We will notify the maintainer(s) accordingly.
> 
> * Approximately 3 existing AS-SET objects referencing an ASN with no matching aut-num object in RIPE or RIPE-NONAUTH will also have the source changed to RIPE-NONAUTH and notify maintainer(s).
> 
> * When an inter-RIR transfer of an AS number occurs, any AS-SET referencing the corresponding aut-num will have its source changed to match.
> 
> Otherwise Whois behaviour is unchanged.
> 
> We are implementing this change and will include in a Whois release shortly.
> 
> Regards
> Ed Shryane
> RIPE NCC
> 
> 
> 
>> On 16 Dec 2022, at 13:01, Edward Shryane via db-wg <db-wg _at_ ripe _dot_ net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Denis,
>> 
>> The DB team will implement this change, including an impact analysis in advance.
>> 
>> Regards
>> Ed Shryane
>> RIPE NCC
>> 
>> 
>>> On 16 Dec 2022, at 10:29, denis walker <ripedenis _at_ gmail _dot_ com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Colleagues
>>> 
>>> The chairs agree that we have a consensus on making this change and
>>> regarding it as a bug fix on the implementation of NWI-5. We therefore
>>> ask the RIPE NCC to implement this bug fix when it is convenient to
>>> fit it into their development plans.
>>> 
>>> It can be done in two stages:
>>> 1/ Creating any new AS-SET object authorised by an ASN in RIPE-NONAUTH
>>> will also have the source RIPE-NONAUTH
>>> 2/ Any existing AS-SET object that was created with authorisation by
>>> an ASN in RIPE-NONAUTH will have it's source changed to RIPE-NONAUTH
>>> 
>>> cheers
>>> denis and William
>>> co-chairs DB-WG
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/db-wg
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, get a password reminder, or change your subscription options, please visit: https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/db-wg
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Ed Shryane

2023-02-20 16:13:38 CET

RIPE NCC staff member 

Hi Denis, Colleagues,

> On 6 Feb 2023, at 11:51, Edward Shryane via db-wg <db-wg _at_ ripe _dot_ net> wrote:
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> The upcoming Whois 1.106 release will include the requested change below: an AS-SET "source:" will be set to "RIPE-NONAUTH" if the AUT-NUM is in "RIPE-NONAUTH".
> 
> We will also update *existing* AS-SET objects "source:" address accordingly when we deploy the Whois 1.106 release on Monday 20th February.
> 
> We will notify the maintainers of all affected AS-SET objects by email today.
> 

We have now updated 76 AS-SET objects "source:" attribute to "RIPE-NONAUTH" to match the AUT-NUM "source:", and notified the maintainers.

Regards
Ed Shryane
RIPE NCC
Database Working Group