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Re: [ripe-152bis] Updating "Charging by Local Internet Registries"

  • To: leo vegoda < >
  • From: Carlos Friacas < >
  • Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:51:36 +0000 (WET)

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, leo vegoda wrote:

> Carlos Friacas cfriacas@localhost wrote:
> [...]
> >> Why are AS Numbers different from IPv4 address space here? Why is it
> >> acceptable to charge for AS Numbers and not IP space?
> >
> >IPv4 address conservation is not an issue now...
> >It is solved by IPv6. But as we konw... IPv6 doesnt solve ASNs < 2^16
> >Or are we going to step into 32 bit ASNs?
> >If yes, i dont have any argument against. :-)
> It looks like the IETF Inter-Domain Routing WG is addressing the
> extension of BGP to support 4-byte AS Numbers.

the last type i've checked 1byte=8bits <=> 4byte=32bits :-)
so this sounds like good news, however... this *might* introduce a new
paradigm... isp's small/medium customers getting ASNs... :-)

> Nonetheless, is it right to use money as the deciding factor here? What
> advantage is there in dissuading those without suitably flush budgets
> from obtaining an AS Number when one is needed?

i think the questions about this, are:
+ today, some ASNs are being used where they are *NOT* needed
+ having an ASN means more "independent" customers. the next step will be
to get some PI space...

In other words, this is heavily against what i usually hear some people
say: dont buy access to several ISPs, just buy several access to the same

> Surely AS Numbers are
> there to be assigned to the networks that need them.

No doubt.

> It seems that a policy that used ability to pay to help with
> conservation of AS Numbers might have the effect of enabling late
> entrants with suitable budgets to afford an AS Number while limiting
> access to earlier entrants without such a budget.

Yes, again. If the policy goes on a liberal path, the two things to have
in mind should be:
- take care not to assign ASNs that wouldnt be "properly" used (globally
- make an effort to "pull back" ASNs from dead-companies, and merged
networks (when a network is merged, why more than 1 ASN? the fact is
people tend to consider ASNs and IP addresses as resources...)

> Is money the right tool to use when looking at AS Number conservation?

It shouldnt. Perhaps Network maps would help a lot more.
And im not sure if we need to keep the "ASN conservation banner" up, if we
going to step into 32bit ASNs...

> Indeed, what would be the purpose of AS Number conservation based on
> ability to pay?

I can agree it wouldnt be fair, but it would prevent undoubtably some
people to get ASNs... namely start-ups...

> Regards,
> --
> leo vegoda
> Registration Services Manager

./Carlos                                  "Upgrade the Internet! -- Now!"
--------------         []
cfriacas@localhost, CMF8-RIPE, CF596-ARIN, Wide Area Network Workgroup
FCCN - Fundacao para a Computacao Cientifica Nacional  fax:+351 218472167

 "Internet is just routes (127855/472), naming (millions) and... people!"

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