[members-discuss] Discussion on LIRs from Donetsk Area

1. http://egrul.nalog.ru/ database contains not the entire list of 
organizations from Russia. There's must be only commercial 
organizations. “Center of Internet services in DNR” may be a 
non-profit organization.
2. Russian organization may have an office in Ukraine, as Ukrainian in 
Russia. There is nothing illegal.
3. Delivery of mail to these cities through Russia much easier than 
through Ukraine.

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 13:57:21 +0200
  Andrei Kushnireuski <ipas.master at gmail.com> wrote:
> Johan,
> 
> Where did you find political debates? As Alexey told you
> 
> 1) There is no information about  “Center of Internet services in 
>DNR” (Центр интернет-поддержки ДНР) in  http://egrul.nalog.ru/ 
>database 
> 
> 2) Donetsk/Lugansk are located in Ukraine (not Russian Federation). 
>If you have alternative point of view please provide us proofs.
> 
> 3) When Sergey Myasoedov started this discussion the organization 
>address was Lugansk, Russian Federation but now it’s updated to 
>Donetsk, Russian Federation.
> 
> Both addresses are invalid and don’t meet RIPE policies.
> 
> 
> I placed Andrea’s email to the CC to pay his attention to this 
>issue.. because this situation is NOT normal and overshadow to RIPE 
>NCC.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ---
> Andrei.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 30 Jun 2015, at 13:45, Johan Boger <johan at robtex.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> While I agree RIPE NCC should not get involved in political debates, 
>>they should, however, make sure all papers are legal in the nation 
>>they were issued. As for disputed regions, I realize it is difficult 
>>and something perhaps not possible for RIPE NCC to decide who is 
>>right in an interim period, and just what a "nation" constitutes. We 
>>have to remember that changes in geography usually happens as a 
>>result of some sort of war or invasion, and is rarely something all 
>>involved parties agree on (except in post-war situations in the form 
>>of treaties - and even then, it's a compromise at best after having 
>>lost). 
>> 
>> However, having said that, it is curious I had to send about 25 
>>documents back and forth while renaming a LIR and moving it to a 
>>different geographical location. The requirements for legal papers 
>>issued in both countries were a must then, and I had to submit 
>>information from various government entities in both nations. So I do 
>>wonder a bit why this was so easily pushed through. Was it perhaps 
>>pushed through simply BECAUSE the RIPE NCC felt it was a political 
>>issue and not something they should touch (so perhaps they didn't 
>>apply full scrutiny to documentation out of fear for touching the 
>>untouchables?). 
>> 
>> If I am entirely out of line or out of sync with procedures, I 
>>apologize.
>> 
>> Just an observation. 
>> 
>> PS. To mailing list admin: please ignore my email in the queue sent 
>>from team at robtex.com. My subscribed email is johan at robtex.com, so 
>>naturally that bounced. DS. 
>> 
>> - Johan Boger, AS48285. 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Samorukov,Alexey <samm at net-art.cz> 
>>wrote:
>>> 
>>> To clarify matters relating to the discussion on LIRs from the 
>>>Donetsk
>>> area, I would like to remind you of the RIPE NCC Executive Board's
>>> resolution on continuity to service to all members. Please see the
>>> statement at:
>>> 
>>> https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/executive-board-resolution-on-continuity-of-services-to-all-ripe-ncc-members
>>> 
>>> The RIPE NCC needs to confirm that an entity exists. Dutch law does 
>>>not
>>> restrict the RIPE NCC from using any means it finds appropriate as 
>>>proof
>>> that a legal entity exists. Documents issued by any national 
>>>authority
>>> are considered to be sufficient proof.
>> 
>> Thank you for reply, it would be great to have some clarifications, 
>>if possible. 
>> 
>> Does it mean that organization "Center of Internet services in DNR” 
>>is exists in Russia? I cant find any references to it in the 
>>registries. Also it is not clear what is “national authority” here. 
>>Admin-c and tech-c numbers are with Ukrainian prefix. Lugansk is 
>>Ukrainian city. DNR itself is a terroristic organization which is 
>>located in the Donetsk area (not Lugansk, btw). Could you please 
>>check and confirm that all documents were checked properly? 
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>> ----
>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC 
>>members-discuss
>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the 
>>general page:
>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>> 
>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". 
>>From here, you can add or remove addresses.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285)
>> e: johan at robtex.com
>> w: http://www.robtex.com
>> ----
>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC 
>>members-discuss
>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the 
>>general page:
>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>> 
>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". 
>>From here, you can add or remove addresses.
> 
> 
> ----
> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC 
>members-discuss
> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the 
>general page:
> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
> 
> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". 
>From here, you can add or remove addresses.