[members-discuss] Discussion on LIRs from Donetsk Area
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Johan Boger
johan at robtex.com
Tue Jun 30 14:47:27 CEST 2015
All of that may be true, Alexandr, but I would still like to review the documentation that made RIPE NCC go "this seems legit" ( of course I have no right to do so, I assume ). Because I very rarely succeed with that, even when I am undoubtedly legit in my requests. And if I succeed, it is after extensive paperwork-shuffling including lots of organizations and legal entities. This seems like a fairly similar scenario. Renaming the LIR, and thus effectively moving it. So, I assume they too had to provide tonnes of documentation from both RU and UA to justify the new RU-prefix. I just don't fully grasp what kind of documentation that can be. In that region. At this point in time. -JB On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Alexandr Popov <alexp at lec.tel> wrote: > 1. http://egrul.nalog.ru/ database contains not the entire list of > organizations from Russia. There's must be only commercial organizations. > “Center of Internet services in DNR” may be a non-profit organization. > 2. Russian organization may have an office in Ukraine, as Ukrainian in > Russia. There is nothing illegal. > 3. Delivery of mail to these cities through Russia much easier than > through Ukraine. > > > On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 13:57:21 +0200 > Andrei Kushnireuski <ipas.master at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Johan, >> >> Where did you find political debates? As Alexey told you >> >> 1) There is no information about “Center of Internet services in DNR” >> (Центр интернет-поддержки ДНР) in http://egrul.nalog.ru/ database >> 2) Donetsk/Lugansk are located in Ukraine (not Russian Federation). If >> you have alternative point of view please provide us proofs. >> >> 3) When Sergey Myasoedov started this discussion the organization address >> was Lugansk, Russian Federation but now it’s updated to Donetsk, Russian >> Federation. >> >> Both addresses are invalid and don’t meet RIPE policies. >> >> >> I placed Andrea’s email to the CC to pay his attention to this issue.. >> because this situation is NOT normal and overshadow to RIPE NCC. >> >> Thanks. >> >> --- >> Andrei. >> >> >> >> >> On 30 Jun 2015, at 13:45, Johan Boger <johan at robtex.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hey all, >>> >>> While I agree RIPE NCC should not get involved in political debates, >>> they should, however, make sure all papers are legal in the nation they >>> were issued. As for disputed regions, I realize it is difficult and >>> something perhaps not possible for RIPE NCC to decide who is right in an >>> interim period, and just what a "nation" constitutes. We have to remember >>> that changes in geography usually happens as a result of some sort of war >>> or invasion, and is rarely something all involved parties agree on (except >>> in post-war situations in the form of treaties - and even then, it's a >>> compromise at best after having lost). >>> However, having said that, it is curious I had to send about 25 >>> documents back and forth while renaming a LIR and moving it to a different >>> geographical location. The requirements for legal papers issued in both >>> countries were a must then, and I had to submit information from various >>> government entities in both nations. So I do wonder a bit why this was so >>> easily pushed through. Was it perhaps pushed through simply BECAUSE the >>> RIPE NCC felt it was a political issue and not something they should touch >>> (so perhaps they didn't apply full scrutiny to documentation out of fear >>> for touching the untouchables?). >>> If I am entirely out of line or out of sync with procedures, I apologize. >>> >>> Just an observation. >>> PS. To mailing list admin: please ignore my email in the queue sent from >>> team at robtex.com. My subscribed email is johan at robtex.com, so naturally >>> that bounced. DS. >>> - Johan Boger, AS48285. >>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Samorukov,Alexey <samm at net-art.cz> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> To clarify matters relating to the discussion on LIRs from the Donetsk >>>> area, I would like to remind you of the RIPE NCC Executive Board's >>>> resolution on continuity to service to all members. Please see the >>>> statement at: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/executive-board-resolution-on-continuity-of-services-to-all-ripe-ncc-members >>>> >>>> The RIPE NCC needs to confirm that an entity exists. Dutch law does not >>>> restrict the RIPE NCC from using any means it finds appropriate as proof >>>> that a legal entity exists. Documents issued by any national authority >>>> are considered to be sufficient proof. >>>> >>> >>> Thank you for reply, it would be great to have some clarifications, if >>> possible. >>> Does it mean that organization "Center of Internet services in DNR” is >>> exists in Russia? I cant find any references to it in the registries. Also >>> it is not clear what is “national authority” here. Admin-c and tech-c >>> numbers are with Ukrainian prefix. Lugansk is Ukrainian city. DNR itself is >>> a terroristic organization which is located in the Donetsk area (not >>> Lugansk, btw). Could you please check and confirm that all documents were >>> checked properly? >>> Thank you. >>> >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >>> general page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >>> here, you can add or remove addresses. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285) >>> e: johan at robtex.com >>> w: http://www.robtex.com >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >>> general page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >>> here, you can add or remove addresses. >>> >> >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >> here, you can add or remove addresses. >> > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > -- Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285) e: johan at robtex.com w: http://www.robtex.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://lists.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/attachments/20150630/d6a6e9d8/attachment.html>
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