[members-discuss] Discussion on LIRs from Donetsk Area
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Johan Boger
johan at robtex.com
Tue Jun 30 14:33:42 CEST 2015
Not sure why, but "Swiss Network SA Technical Support" keeps creating tickets for me every time I email this list. And not only them. Do people have ticket system-addresses as their subscribed emails? "[image: Swiss Network SA] <http://www.swissnetwork.ch/> Johan Boger, Thank you for contacting our support team. A support ticket has now been opened for your request. You will be notified when a response is made by email. The details of your ticket are shown below. Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Discussion on LIRs from Donetsk Area Priority: Medium Status: Open You can view the ticket at any time at https://www.swissnetwork.ch/members/viewticket.php?tid=2015-06-30-296&c=2EndH9P0 " Am I doing something wrong, or are they in fact using a ticket system address to subscribe to here? -JB On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:27 PM, Johan Boger <johan at robtex.com> wrote: > Dear Andrei and other colleagues, > > I fully agree with all three statements above. Not sure why you think I do > not. I was saying I find it odd this was approved by RIPE NCC given the > very tricky political situation and the questionable legality of any > documents issued by the Russian Federation, concerning this region at this > point in time. My personal opinion is best kept to myself, but let's say > I'm not on Russia's side. I am, after all, Swedish. But, that's for another > discussion, at another forum. I am not a political expert on the conflict, > and even if I were, I am not here to discuss that. > > I also said that it was curious I had to provide an enormous amount of > documents to transfer a LIR from one nation to another. It took a long time > and lots of emails back and forth to get it approved. Now, that was between > two nations in the EU, both fully acknowledged by all nations on the > planet, and with documentation from both company registries in both > nations, as well as all company documentation (incorporation certificates > and other legal stuff). I wonder if they truly managed to get legal > documentation produced by both parties in this dispute. I seriously doubt > it. But, perhaps it is not a requirement. Perhaps it does not include new > LIRs, and that there are more requirements for moving a LIR than there is > for creating one. But that also sounds a bit skewed, to me personally. > > -JB > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Andrei Kushnireuski < > ipas.master at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Johan, >> >> Where did you find political debates? As Alexey told you >> >> 1) There is no information about “Center of Internet services in DNR” >> (Центр интернет-поддержки ДНР) in http://egrul.nalog.ru/ database >> >> 2) Donetsk/Lugansk are located in Ukraine (not Russian Federation). If >> you have alternative point of view please provide us proofs. >> >> 3) When Sergey Myasoedov started this discussion the organization address >> was Lugansk, Russian Federation but now it’s updated to Donetsk, Russian >> Federation. >> >> Both addresses are invalid and don’t meet RIPE policies. >> >> >> I placed Andrea’s email to the CC to pay his attention to this issue.. >> because this situation is NOT normal and overshadow to RIPE NCC. >> >> Thanks. >> >> --- >> Andrei. >> >> >> >> >> > On 30 Jun 2015, at 13:45, Johan Boger <johan at robtex.com> wrote: >> > >> > Hey all, >> > >> > While I agree RIPE NCC should not get involved in political debates, >> they should, however, make sure all papers are legal in the nation they >> were issued. As for disputed regions, I realize it is difficult and >> something perhaps not possible for RIPE NCC to decide who is right in an >> interim period, and just what a "nation" constitutes. We have to remember >> that changes in geography usually happens as a result of some sort of war >> or invasion, and is rarely something all involved parties agree on (except >> in post-war situations in the form of treaties - and even then, it's a >> compromise at best after having lost). >> > >> > However, having said that, it is curious I had to send about 25 >> documents back and forth while renaming a LIR and moving it to a different >> geographical location. The requirements for legal papers issued in both >> countries were a must then, and I had to submit information from various >> government entities in both nations. So I do wonder a bit why this was so >> easily pushed through. Was it perhaps pushed through simply BECAUSE the >> RIPE NCC felt it was a political issue and not something they should touch >> (so perhaps they didn't apply full scrutiny to documentation out of fear >> for touching the untouchables?). >> > >> > If I am entirely out of line or out of sync with procedures, I >> apologize. >> > >> > Just an observation. >> > >> > PS. To mailing list admin: please ignore my email in the queue sent >> from team at robtex.com. My subscribed email is johan at robtex.com, so >> naturally that bounced. DS. >> > >> > - Johan Boger, AS48285. >> > >> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Samorukov,Alexey <samm at net-art.cz> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> To clarify matters relating to the discussion on LIRs from the Donetsk >> >> area, I would like to remind you of the RIPE NCC Executive Board's >> >> resolution on continuity to service to all members. Please see the >> >> statement at: >> >> >> >> >> https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/executive-board-resolution-on-continuity-of-services-to-all-ripe-ncc-members >> >> >> >> The RIPE NCC needs to confirm that an entity exists. Dutch law does not >> >> restrict the RIPE NCC from using any means it finds appropriate as >> proof >> >> that a legal entity exists. Documents issued by any national authority >> >> are considered to be sufficient proof. >> > >> > Thank you for reply, it would be great to have some clarifications, if >> possible. >> > >> > Does it mean that organization "Center of Internet services in DNR” is >> exists in Russia? I cant find any references to it in the registries. Also >> it is not clear what is “national authority” here. Admin-c and tech-c >> numbers are with Ukrainian prefix. Lugansk is Ukrainian city. DNR itself is >> a terroristic organization which is located in the Donetsk area (not >> Lugansk, btw). Could you please check and confirm that all documents were >> checked properly? >> > >> > Thank you. >> > >> > ---- >> > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> > >> > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >> here, you can add or remove addresses. >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285) >> > e: johan at robtex.com >> > w: http://www.robtex.com >> > ---- >> > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> > >> > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >> here, you can add or remove addresses. >> >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >> here, you can add or remove addresses. >> > > > > -- > Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285) > e: johan at robtex.com > w: http://www.robtex.com > -- Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285) e: johan at robtex.com w: http://www.robtex.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://lists.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/attachments/20150630/f1a9c7c0/attachment.html>
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