[members-discuss] Discussion on LIRs from Donetsk Area

Dear Andrei and other colleagues,

I fully agree with all three statements above. Not sure why you think I do
not. I was saying I find it odd this was approved by RIPE NCC given the
very tricky political situation and the questionable legality of any
documents issued by the Russian Federation, concerning this region at this
point in time. My personal opinion is best kept to myself, but let's say
I'm not on Russia's side. I am, after all, Swedish. But, that's for another
discussion, at another forum. I am not a political expert on the conflict,
and even if I were, I am not here to discuss that.

I also said that it was curious I had to provide an enormous amount of
documents to transfer a LIR from one nation to another. It took a long time
and lots of emails back and forth to get it approved. Now, that was between
two nations in the EU, both fully acknowledged by all nations on the
planet, and with documentation from both company registries in both
nations, as well as all company documentation (incorporation certificates
and other legal stuff). I wonder if they truly managed to get legal
documentation produced by both parties in this dispute. I seriously doubt
it. But, perhaps it is not a requirement. Perhaps it does not include new
LIRs, and that there are more requirements for moving a LIR than there is
for creating one. But that also sounds a bit skewed, to me personally.

-JB

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Andrei Kushnireuski <ipas.master at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Johan,
>
> Where did you find political debates? As Alexey told you
>
> 1) There is no information about  “Center of Internet services in DNR”
> (Центр интернет-поддержки ДНР) in  http://egrul.nalog.ru/ database
>
> 2) Donetsk/Lugansk are located in Ukraine (not Russian Federation). If you
> have alternative point of view please provide us proofs.
>
> 3) When Sergey Myasoedov started this discussion the organization address
> was Lugansk, Russian Federation but now it’s updated to Donetsk, Russian
> Federation.
>
> Both addresses are invalid and don’t meet RIPE policies.
>
>
> I placed Andrea’s email to the CC to pay his attention to this issue..
> because this situation is NOT normal and overshadow to RIPE NCC.
>
> Thanks.
>
> ---
> Andrei.
>
>
>
>
> > On 30 Jun 2015, at 13:45, Johan Boger <johan at robtex.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hey all,
> >
> > While I agree RIPE NCC should not get involved in political debates,
> they should, however, make sure all papers are legal in the nation they
> were issued. As for disputed regions, I realize it is difficult and
> something perhaps not possible for RIPE NCC to decide who is right in an
> interim period, and just what a "nation" constitutes. We have to remember
> that changes in geography usually happens as a result of some sort of war
> or invasion, and is rarely something all involved parties agree on (except
> in post-war situations in the form of treaties - and even then, it's a
> compromise at best after having lost).
> >
> > However, having said that, it is curious I had to send about 25
> documents back and forth while renaming a LIR and moving it to a different
> geographical location. The requirements for legal papers issued in both
> countries were a must then, and I had to submit information from various
> government entities in both nations. So I do wonder a bit why this was so
> easily pushed through. Was it perhaps pushed through simply BECAUSE the
> RIPE NCC felt it was a political issue and not something they should touch
> (so perhaps they didn't apply full scrutiny to documentation out of fear
> for touching the untouchables?).
> >
> > If I am entirely out of line or out of sync with procedures, I apologize.
> >
> > Just an observation.
> >
> > PS. To mailing list admin: please ignore my email in the queue sent from
> team at robtex.com. My subscribed email is johan at robtex.com, so naturally
> that bounced. DS.
> >
> > - Johan Boger, AS48285.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Samorukov,Alexey <samm at net-art.cz>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> To clarify matters relating to the discussion on LIRs from the Donetsk
> >> area, I would like to remind you of the RIPE NCC Executive Board's
> >> resolution on continuity to service to all members. Please see the
> >> statement at:
> >>
> >>
> https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/about-ripe-ncc-and-ripe/executive-board-resolution-on-continuity-of-services-to-all-ripe-ncc-members
> >>
> >> The RIPE NCC needs to confirm that an entity exists. Dutch law does not
> >> restrict the RIPE NCC from using any means it finds appropriate as proof
> >> that a legal entity exists. Documents issued by any national authority
> >> are considered to be sufficient proof.
> >
> > Thank you for reply, it would be great to have some clarifications, if
> possible.
> >
> > Does it mean that organization "Center of Internet services in DNR” is
> exists in Russia? I cant find any references to it in the registries. Also
> it is not clear what is “national authority” here. Admin-c and tech-c
> numbers are with Ukrainian prefix. Lugansk is Ukrainian city. DNR itself is
> a terroristic organization which is located in the Donetsk area (not
> Lugansk, btw). Could you please check and confirm that all documents were
> checked properly?
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > ----
> > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
> general page:
> > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
> >
> > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
> here, you can add or remove addresses.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285)
> > e: johan at robtex.com
> > w: http://www.robtex.com
> > ----
> > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
> general page:
> > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
> >
> > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>
>
> ----
> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
> general page:
> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>
> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>



-- 
Johan Boger, Project Manager (AS48285)
e: johan at robtex.com
w: http://www.robtex.com
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