[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024

Good morning,

From our perspective as a fairly small LIR, who got in the IP address space in around 2002, and hold a /21 and two /22's which were cheap then, and do actually utilize most of our held address space, we feel we are some of the people that will be most affected by this.

On our usage of the calculator, both model 1 and model 2 in our case will cost us the same amount next year. This is 2000 euros, which is an almost 60% increase from last year. Therefore whether model 1 or 2 goes ahead in this current iteration is meaningless to us. We do however believe that neither of these models are correct, and the figures for resources are far over inflated to what they should be.

There are a couple of questions that we have:
1.            In the initial post from Simon Jan Haytink, it was mentioned by RIPE that they expect that over the next year, organizations with lots of LIR accounts who received resources in 2021 will start to conglomerate those into less amounts of larger LIRs. This would decrease their income according to them. Please can someone from RIPE provide some justification into why they think this will happen, and what data supports that theory? From the RIPE NCC IPv4 pool, it looks to us that in 2021, RIPE built up a collection of IP addresses that had been handed back, and then towards the end of the year they handed those IP addresses out to members on the waiting list. It is our theory that RIPE allowed members to create many LIRs to request resources, so that those members had a greater chance of receiving large amounts of resources. If the above scenario is correct, this is massive failing on RIPE's part, and they were the direct cause of the issue they are now trying to charge us for. Can someone from RIPE please comment?
2.            Clearly RIPE must have a budget for expenditure and income for the forthcoming year, can RIPE indicate whether they have a planned increase in both income and expenditure and what reasons are given for any increase especially in expenditure. RIPE need to be far more transparent and also understand that they are spending our money, their stewardship needs to be improved. As someone else has said, why does RIPE have a multi-million Euro PR budget. They are the only people in this space in Europe, what does this budget go towards?
3.            Why does Model 2 seem to have an upper cap of 8 000 Euros? This means that large companies with millions of IPv4 addresses aren’t paying a proportional share of the costs. RIPE’s pricing should be fair to ALL members, and charging a disproportionally low amount to multi-national corporations seems like RIPE are just shifting the cost on to smaller LIRs.

We believe that the way that RIPE should charge FOR IT'S CORE SERVICES is through set fees for resources, as is similar to model 2, but that the prices on model 2 are far too high.
RIPE must also decrease it's expenditure. They offer so many training and community based sessions that are often at in person locations, and the vast majority of the time, those events are free to members. Many small companies would love to be able to send colleagues out to these events, but due to travel/accommodation costs, they simply cannot. It doesn't make sense then that the small companies should have to bear the burden through increased membership prices of financing these events. We would be more accepting if these events were supplemented by RIPE if it truly is for the good of the internet community, but we think that there should be a price to pay from members for these events.


If RIPE want to increase our membership costs, and don't provide justification as to why, and don't put forward actionable plans to decrease their expenditure, we will be voting NO to both of the proposed models.

George Porter
Integrated Network Services Ltd 
01928 238390
07956592260
george.porter at in-services.co.uk

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-----Original Message-----
From: ncc-announce <ncc-announce-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of Simon Jan Haytink
Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 9:35 AM
To: ncc-announce at ripe.net
Subject: [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024

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Dear RIPE NCC members,

We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the membership in 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to carry out that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2023.

In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed our members and held an open house to get direct input on the charging scheme model that members would like to see implemented by the RIPE NCC. The outcome at that stage of the consultation was that there were strong cases made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee model and for a category-based model that would charge based on the number of resources held by a member. A strong case was also made to charge for all resources allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for transfers.

The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of the war in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on this matter together with the membership.

One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion on the charging model is that we expect many members with multiple LIR accounts who received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts in the coming year. This means that the income the RIPE NCC receives will be reduced by a significant amount and we will need to ensure that our charging model allows us to collect the revenue required to maintain our operations. We believe that a category-based model would be best suited to cover this consolidation risk. Continuing with the existing model would mean that an increase in fees for all members would be required. Our ultimate goal is to arrive at a charging scheme model that will be sustainable for many years to come, meeting the needs of the RIPE NCC’s members.

To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members to assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to review. These models can be summarised as:

Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2023  that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.

Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.

In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own situation, we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to calculate the fees you would pay under each of the draft models. It is important to be aware that at this stage, the numbers assigned for each item are indicative and would be reviewed in light of the discussion with members. We plan to review these figures following consultation with the members, and giving input on those figures would greatly help to arrive at a good model.

You can download the Excel sheet from:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations/member-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx

We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging Scheme in March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The Executive Board will then take the input and decide on one or more charging schemes for the membership to vote on at the GM to be held on 24 May 2023. The outcome of that vote will determine the charging scheme model to be used in the coming years.

I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on the Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss at ripe.net) by 26 April. Input provided up to this date will be considered by the Board when formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input after this date is of course also welcome although it might not be reflected in the schemes put forward to the membership at the GM.

The consultation will also be recorded and available from:
https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations

I look forward to your input.

Kind regards,

Simon Jan Haytink
Finance Director
RIPE NCC

Summary

7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model
21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership
24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far
12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024
26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted on by members
24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023

References

Open House and Survey Results
https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles

Presentation at General Meeting
https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/documentation-and-archive/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf