[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024
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Vitalii Zubok
vit at visti.net
Thu Mar 9 09:01:33 CET 2023
On 08.03.2023 16:54, Will van Gulik wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I agree with this point, the IPv4 calculation in model 2 is rough on > small companies. We have to remember that small & early ISPs received > decently big pools a long time ago, which would impact their yearly > fees, by 4 times in the case I measured. For instance, if > you got a /19 around 2000, and were eligble for a last /22, you're > already in the " Large " group, which is quite hard. So I'm totally with > Martin on that one. > UA.VISTI support that, as we are in the same situation. We are LIR since 1997. At that time, with our single /19 we counted as 'SMALL'. Much later we received 'the last' /22, now our allocations are 100% used. While more traditional 'model 1' leads us to 1,6 yearly fee increase, 'model 2' leads to 3 times increase. In case 'Model 2' wins the run, we ask to revise LIR categories as offered by Martin Volf (Dragon Internet a.s. ): "...in my opinion the IPv4 Category Calculation in the provided XLSX file is too strict. Maybe doubling the Max Assignments values would be more appropriate, i.e.: Extra Small 1024 Small 4096 Medium 16384 Large 65536 Extra Large > instead of: Extra Small 512 Small 2048 Medium 8192 Large 32768 Extra Large >.." Best regards, Vitalii Zubok ua.visti AS8258 > Also, I think that the model 1 pricing is rough, if adopted, I > think we will see a lot of people (individuals with LIR for instance), > dropping their voting right to move their ressources to an LIR. We would > have a huge amount of income from transfers the first years, and then we > would loose the diversity of votes for small entities. > In any case, I fear that only " the rich " will be able to vote and keep > their ressources going on. Adopting any of these new charging schem > would cause a lot of companies to move their ressources to optimize > their fees. I'm not sure that's a useful move, as it would cause a lot > of administrative > troubles and load on the NCC. > > Kind regards, > > Will van Gulik > Nimag Networks > > On Tue, Mar 07, 2023 at 12:16:26PM +0100, Martin Volf wrote: >> Hello, >> >> in my opinion the IPv4 Category Calculation in the provided XLSX file >> is too strict. Maybe doubling the Max Assignments values would be more >> appropriate, i.e.: >> >> Extra Small 1024 >> Small 4096 >> Medium 16384 >> Large 65536 >> Extra Large > >> >> instead of: >> >> Extra Small 512 >> Small 2048 >> Medium 8192 >> Large 32768 >> Extra Large > >> >> Best regards, >> >> Martin Volf >> Dragon Internet a.s. >> AS15614 >> >> On Tue, 7 Mar 2023, Simon Jan Haytink wrote: >> >>> Dear RIPE NCC members, >>> >>> We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the >>> membership in >>> 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to >>> carry out >>> that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General Meeting >>> (GM) May >>> 2023. >>> >>> In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed our >>> members and held an open house to get direct input on the charging >>> scheme >>> model that members would like to see implemented by the RIPE NCC. The >>> outcome at that stage of the consultation was that there were strong >>> cases >>> made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee model and for a >>> category-based >>> model that would charge based on the number of resources held by a >>> member. A >>> strong case was also made to charge for all resources allocated or >>> assigned >>> by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for transfers. >>> >>> The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of >>> the war >>> in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on this matter >>> together with the membership. >>> >>> One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion >>> on the >>> charging model is that we expect many members with multiple LIR >>> accounts who >>> received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts in the coming >>> year. This >>> means that the income the RIPE NCC receives will be reduced by a >>> significant >>> amount and we will need to ensure that our charging model allows us to >>> collect the revenue required to maintain our operations. We believe >>> that a >>> category-based model would be best suited to cover this consolidation >>> risk. >>> Continuing with the existing model would mean that an increase in >>> fees for >>> all members would be required. Our ultimate goal is to arrive at a >>> charging >>> scheme model that will be sustainable for many years to come, meeting >>> the >>> needs of the RIPE NCC’s members. >>> >>> To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members to >>> assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to >>> review. These >>> models can be summarised as: >>> >>> Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current RIPE NCC >>> Charging >>> Scheme 2023 that also charges for independent resources, ASNs, >>> transfers and >>> changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions. >>> >>> Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR >>> account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges for >>> independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure >>> such as Mergers & Acquisitions. >>> >>> In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own >>> situation, >>> we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to calculate the >>> fees >>> you would pay under each of the draft models. It is important to be >>> aware >>> that at this stage, the numbers assigned for each item are indicative >>> and >>> would be reviewed in light of the discussion with members. We plan to >>> review >>> these figures following consultation with the members, and giving >>> input on >>> those figures would greatly help to arrive at a good model. >>> >>> You can download the Excel sheet from: >>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations/member-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx >>> >>> We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging >>> Scheme in >>> March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The Executive Board >>> will then take the input and decide on one or more charging schemes >>> for the >>> membership to vote on at the GM to be held on 24 May 2023. The >>> outcome of >>> that vote will determine the charging scheme model to be used in the >>> coming >>> years. >>> >>> I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on the >>> Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss at ripe.net) by 26 >>> April. >>> Input provided up to this date will be considered by the Board when >>> formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input >>> after this >>> date is of course also welcome although it might not be reflected in the >>> schemes put forward to the membership at the GM. >>> >>> The consultation will also be recorded and available from: >>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultations >>> >>> I look forward to your input. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Simon Jan Haytink >>> Finance Director >>> RIPE NCC >>> >>> Summary >>> >>> 7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme >>> model >>> 21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership >>> 24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far >>> 12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024 >>> 26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted >>> on by >>> members >>> 24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023 >>> >>> References >>> >>> Open House and Survey Results >>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles >>> >>> Presentation at General Meeting >>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/documentation-and-archive/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf > >> _______________________________________________ >> members-discuss mailing list >> members-discuss at ripe.net >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >> Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/will%40nimag.net > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/vit%40visti.net
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