[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024

Hello,

I agree that the charging scheme needs to be reviewed, and I believe it should be based on a few factors

1) The type of the institution (educational, profitable, non-profitable, etc..).
2) The number of /24's owned by the organization.

I suppose that profitable organizations can pay more to support the RIPE NCC operations, as they benefit more from the IP addresses, while the educational & non-profitable organizations don't get monetary benefits from using the IP addresses owned by them (I work in a profitable organization btw).

Best regards,

Ammar Talal Abdullah Al-Masaabi
Network & Security Team Leader
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-----Original Message-----
From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of Will van Gulik
Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 5:55 PM
To: members-discuss at ripe.net
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.

Hi Everyone,

I agree with this point, the IPv4 calculation in model 2 is rough on small companies. We have to remember that small & early ISPs received decently big pools a long time ago, which would impact their yearly fees, by 4 times in the case I measured. For instance, if you got a /19 around 2000, and were eligble for a last /22, you're already in the " Large " group, which is quite hard. So I'm totally with Martin on that one.

Also, I think that the model 1 pricing is rough, if adopted, I think we will see a lot of people (individuals with LIR for instance), dropping their voting right to move their ressources to an LIR. We would have a huge amount of income from transfers the first years, and then we would loose the diversity of votes for small entities.

In any case, I fear that only " the rich " will be able to vote and keep their ressources going on. Adopting any of these new charging schem would cause a lot of companies to move their ressources to optimize their fees.
I'm not sure that's a useful move, as it would cause a lot of administrative troubles and load on the NCC.

Kind regards,

Will van Gulik
Nimag Networks

On Tue, Mar 07, 2023 at 12:16:26PM +0100, Martin Volf wrote:
>Hello,
>
>in my opinion the IPv4 Category Calculation in the provided XLSX file
>is too strict. Maybe doubling the Max Assignments values would be more
>appropriate, i.e.:
>
> Extra Small1024
> Small4096
> Medium16384
> Large65536
> Extra Large>
>
>instead of:
>
> Extra Small512
> Small2048
> Medium8192
> Large32768
> Extra Large>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Martin Volf
>Dragon Internet a.s.
>AS15614
>
>On Tue, 7 Mar 2023, Simon Jan Haytink wrote:
>
>> Dear RIPE NCC members,
>>
>> We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the
>> membership in
>> 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we would like to
>> carry out that consultation well in advance of the RIPE NCC General
>> Meeting (GM) May 2023.
>>
>> In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed
>> our members and held an open house to get direct input on the
>> charging scheme model that members would like to see implemented by
>> the RIPE NCC. The outcome at that stage of the consultation was that
>> there were strong cases made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee
>> model and for a category-based model that would charge based on the
>> number of resources held by a member. A strong case was also made to
>> charge for all resources allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC, including ASNs, and to charge a fee for transfers.
>>
>> The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of
>> the war in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on
>> this matter together with the membership.
>>
>> One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion
>> on the charging model is that we expect many members with multiple
>> LIR accounts who received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts
>> in the coming year. This means that the income the RIPE NCC receives
>> will be reduced by a significant amount and we will need to ensure
>> that our charging model allows us to collect the revenue required to
>> maintain our operations. We believe that a category-based model would be best suited to cover this consolidation risk.
>> Continuing with the existing model would mean that an increase in
>> fees for all members would be required. Our ultimate goal is to
>> arrive at a charging scheme model that will be sustainable for many
>> years to come, meeting the needs of the RIPE NCC’s members.
>>
>> To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members
>> to assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to
>> review. These models can be summarised as:
>>
>> Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current RIPE NCC
>> Charging Scheme 2023 that also charges for independent resources,
>> ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.
>>
>> Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR
>> account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges
>> for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business
>> structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions.
>>
>> In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own
>> situation, we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you to
>> calculate the fees you would pay under each of the draft models. It
>> is important to be aware that at this stage, the numbers assigned for
>> each item are indicative and would be reviewed in light of the
>> discussion with members. We plan to review these figures following
>> consultation with the members, and giving input on those figures would greatly help to arrive at a good model.
>>
>> You can download the Excel sheet from:
>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultati
>> ons/member-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx
>>
>> We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging
>> Scheme in March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The
>> Executive Board will then take the input and decide on one or more
>> charging schemes for the membership to vote on at the GM to be held
>> on 24 May 2023. The outcome of that vote will determine the charging
>> scheme model to be used in the coming years.
>>
>> I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on
>> the Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss at ripe.net) by 26 April.
>> Input provided up to this date will be considered by the Board when
>> formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the GM. Input
>> after this date is of course also welcome although it might not be
>> reflected in the schemes put forward to the membership at the GM.
>>
>> The consultation will also be recorded and available from:
>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/member-and-community-consultati
>> ons
>>
>> I look forward to your input.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Simon Jan Haytink
>> Finance Director
>> RIPE NCC
>>
>> Summary
>>
>> 7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging
>> Scheme model
>> 21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership
>> 24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far
>> 12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024
>> 26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted
>> on by members
>> 24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023
>>
>> References
>>
>> Open House and Survey Results
>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/open-house/ripe-ncc-open-ho
>> use-charging-scheme-principles
>>
>> Presentation at General Meeting
>> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2021/docume
>> ntation-and-archive/ripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf

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