[address-policy-wg] Fwd: Re: 2013-03 New Draft Document and Impact Analysis Published (No Need - Post-Depletion Reality Adjustment and Cleanup)
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Tore Anderson
tore at fud.no
Fri Sep 20 23:13:13 CEST 2013
* David Farmer > You are obfuscating and trivializing Sylvain's objection. He didn't say > that he doesn't support the transfer market. He said he doesn't support > your "deregulation" of the transfer market, which I interpret as removal > of justification of need for transfers. And, yes the transfer market is > a reality as of 2007-08, but this proposal does very much change the > status quo, that is deregulating the transfer market by removing > justification of need for transfers. The market appears to be supplying only about 3% of the demand, assuming the demand for IPv4 in the region is as high as before the NCC ran out. There is no reason to believe that I can see reason to assume that the buyers and the would-be buyers do not have "need". More likely, I think, is that many by now have a quite desperate need. So for a "buyer without need" to even come into the picture, they must be willing to outspend those needy 97% in order to get at the available resource. If these "buyers without need" truly exist and are that determined and resourceful, I have no doubt they are also capable of synthesising whatever "need" required to stay within the constraints of today's need-based policy. It's not at all difficult, they could simply offer to lease (or even loan) back the addresses to the "needy" LIRs they have just outbid. > Again you are obfuscating and trivializing his objection. The RIPE NCC > doesn't just "giving public resources away", the primary cost is the > justification of those resources. Or, the cost of dealing with the > "bureaucracy" that you want to eliminate, that is not free, which is why > you want to eliminate it. The cost of obtaining public IPv4 resources from the RIPE NCC is an one-time fee of €2000 plus a yearly fee of €1800 (which may be adjusted annually). Plus the cost of sending an e-mail requesting the /22. This e-mail is *not* the bureaucracy I want to eliminate. Indeed, the changes going into version 3 is there precisely to keep this the way it is today. The bureaucracy 2013-03 do want to eliminate* is that of the interaction between the LIRs and their End Users. In other words, the *assignment* bureaucracy. The RIPE NCC is not involved in this at all, apart from a few exceptions, for example when assignment size > AW and during LIR Audits. * Actually, "make optional" is more describing. If an LIR wants to keep its current operational practises, by all means, it's free to do so. > Please stop obfuscating and trivializing people's objections, you either > have sufficient support to ignore their objections or you should address > them properly. My aim is always to address any objections properly. I hope this message contributed to that. > From: David Farmer <farmer at umn.edu> > Organization: University of Minnesota Which reminds me, as you stated earlier on this list «I neither support or oppose [2013-03], as I do not represent any resources used within the RIPE region»: I am truly perplexed with the intensity at which ARIN community members seem to take an interest in RIPE policy making, and perhaps especially in 2013-03. Do you have any clue as to the reason for this? 2013-03 is not intended as a global policy proposal, has someone claimed that it is? Best regards, Tore Anderson
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