Plenary Session Minutes

RIPE 33
Vienna, 4th - 7th May 1999
Plenary Session


Chair: Rob Blokzijl
Scribe: Naomi de Bruyn


1. Opening

2. Agenda

3. Minutes RIPE 32

4. From the Chair

5. Reports from the RIPE NCC (D. Karrenberg et al.)

6. Report from APNIC (P. Wilson)

7. ICANN

a - Current Status of ICANN (R.Blokzijl)
b - Progress with the Address Supporting Organisation (ASO)
+ Report from the IETF/ASO meeting (D. Karrenberg)
+ Report from the ARIN/ASO meeting (M. Kuehne)
+ Report from the RIPE NCC Board (K. Mitchel)
c - Presentation on Guiding Principles (R. Blokzijl)
see document by G.Houston:

www.ripe.net/mail-archives/aso-discuss/19990311-19990401/msg00008.html

d - Questions & Discussion
e - Conclusions & Next Steps

8. Transatlantic Cables: from retail to wholesale (D. Bovio)

9. Reports from the working groups

10. Next meetings

11. AOB

12. Close




- 1. - Opening

RIPE chair Rob Blokzijl welcomed the participants to the 33rd
RIPE meeting.

- 2. - Agenda

One agenda item was added: Rob was pleased that Paul Wilson, from the
APNIC in Australia, agreed to give a report on APNIC operations
during the plenary session. The agenda was then approved.

- 3. - Minutes RIPE 32

The minutes of the plenary session of RIPE 32 were approved.

- 4. - From the Chair

- 5. - Reports from the RIPE NCC (Mirjam Kuehne)

The RIPE NCC Status presentation can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/meetings/ripe/ripe-33/pres/


- Statistics
Hostcount: Mirjam reported that the RIPE NCC has completed the
hostcount revision to include all top level domains in RIPE NCC region.
She reported a higher growth in the number of new Local IRs since the
status report provided at the RIPE 32 meeting in January 1999. Since
January 1999, the RIPE NCC has secured contracts with 230 new members
which is almost twice the amount than projected. Mirjam noted that
this trend will be monitored closely so that action can be taken to
cope with the growth, should this trend continue.

- Database
The month of March 1999 was a peek period with more than 300.000
updates made in the RIPE database.

- Registration Services
Due to many factors, the response time to tickets issued has
increased. The hostmaster team is working very hard to return to a
response time of 2-3 days.

Minor policy changes were made to align the policies of the RIPE NCC
with the other regional registries. These changes have been
distributed via email to the RIPE NCC membership and the appropriate
RIPE working groups.

A 'Frequently Asked Questions' document has been written for new
registries. The document is designed to provide answers to some of
the questions that new registries may have about their first address
space request. The document can be found at
http://www.ripe.net/lir/newlir/

The RIPE NCC has introduced and enforced stricter policies with
regards to billing. This procedure has been clarified to the RIPE NCC
members.


- IPv6
Mirjam reported that several suggestions for editorial changes to the
IPv6 document have been received. The document has been approved by
the RIPE IPv6 working group and the respective constituencies in the
other regions. The next step is to submit the document to IANA for
approval, the NCC will also request address space, however the formal
administration is still unclear. The draft can be found on the RIPE
NCC website at:
http://www.ripe.net/lir/registries/ipv6.html

- Database
Progress has been made with regards to the database re-implementation
process. The basic scheme was agreed and laid out during the Database
working group session.

The database consistency project is moving forward. A full-time
employee has been assigned to the consistency project. More
information about this can be found on the RIPE NCC website at:
http://www.ripe.net/db/state/

The RIPE NCC will work to combine the current RPSL tutorials with the
LIR training course. RPSL will become part of the LIR training course
with a planned launch in September 1999. Both courses, however, will
be set up so that they can be offered separately when needed.

- Test Traffic
A brief description of the current status of the Test-Traffic project
was given. The measurement network has been extended and progress has
been made with the analysis of the data.

The most important new analysis result was the comparison of
measurements by the RIPE NCC and Advanced Networks and Systems. Both
projects implement the IETF-IPPM drafts describing delay and loss
measurements and should therefore produce identical results. This was
tested by exchanging measurement machines and comparing the data taken
over a period of several months. The outcome of this analysis showed
that both experiments measure the same effects and that the results
are consistent with each other. This is an extremely important
step in the verification of the results of the Test-Traffic Project.

Current information about the Test Traffic project and the
presentation delivered at the RIPE 33 meeting can be found at
http://www.ripe.net/test-traffic/

- RIR Coordination
The registries continue to work on coordination efforts and as a
result have agreed on several operational policy alignments. The RIPE
NCC has been working with APNIC (RIPE NCC staff worked temporarily at
APNIC) to facilitate a mutual understanding of challenges and
operating procedures. The RIPE NCC has also participated in
membership meetings of ARIN and APNIC. Two colleagues from ARIN and
one from APNIC participated in the plenary session of the RIPE 33
meeting.

At the close of her presentation, Mirjam reported that the first ever
published RIPE NCC Annual Report was ready for distribution. A printed
version will be posted to all RIPE NCC members and will be available
on the RIPE NCC website at http://www.ripe.net/docs/ripe-194.html

Questions to the RIPE NCC:

Question: are there any figures on how many LIRs have left the RIPE
NCC?

A: Mirjam answered that we have not closed that many registries. The
main reason to close a registry, is when they do not pay their bills.
This has not happened that often yet. Another reason for closure is
when registries go out of business. Mirjam did not have the exact
figures on closed registries with her. She reported that these figures
will be presented at the RIPE 34 meeting.

Mike Norris wanted to give an additional figure in this context: the
number of registries is now in 1000's. Worth remembering that since
when we've last met the number of domains has now gone to over a
million. Domain objects in the database have increased with almost
50%. This is also because many objects in the database are related to
domain objects.

Daniel Karrenberg addressed the participants with a few words related
to the RIPE NCC and his present function as General Manager. He
informed everyone present that he has decided to step down as the
RIPE NCC General Manager. Daniel stated that the reason for stepping
down from the position is personal and family related. Daniel would
like to remain involved with the RIPE NCC. The Executive Board has
taken this into account. He stated that the RIPE NCC should intensify
new technical developments such as the Test Traffic project. This is
an area of interest for Daniel in the RIPE NCC.

Daniel expressed his thanks to several people in the RIPE community.
He has seen the NCC grow from 3 people to more then 50. Daniel
thanked all the RIPE NCC staff past and present, for all their effort
and good spirit. He also thanked Rob, who has been chairing the RIPE
meetings for 10 years. The ten year anniversary will take place during
the RIPE 34 in Amsterdam. He thanked Rob for his support and guidance
over the years. Daniel also thanked the Executive Board, he realises
that even though they have demanding day-jobs they take their board
tasks very seriously.

Finally, he also expressed thanks to the RIPE community as a whole for
their support, especially those people who have taken the time to
chair working groups and/or write documents and provide input to the
RIPE NCC. He closed by saying that the RIPE NCC will be represented by
a new General Manager at the RIPE 34 meeting.


Daniel briefly explained the efforts of the Executive Board in
appointing his successor. The RIPE NCC Executive Board are currently
engaged in recruiting a replacement for the RIPE NCC General Manager
position. The Executive Board have taken slow and deliberate steps
and are following the procedures outlined in the statutes. The
Executive Board have made very sure that the selection process
remains with them.


- 6. - Report from APNIC (P. Wilson)

The APNIC has recently undergone quite a few changes. Paul Wilson has
succeeded David Conrad as Director General of the APNIC. The APNIC
office has relocated from Tokyo, JP to Brisbane, AU. The growth of
the membership has decreased in the past months, which is largely
due to economic issues in the APNIC region.

Consumption, which has been slow for the past few years, is expected
to increase from now on. The major countries that are being served by
APNIC are: Australia, China, Japan, Hong Kong, Korea and Taiwan.

Paul Wilson provided more details with regards to the secretariat
relocation from Tokyo, JP to Brisbane, AU. He also reported that the
relocation did not disrupt the services provided to the APNIC
membership.

APNIC has gone from 4 1/2 staff to a current count of 11. They have
held a members survey results were positive.

APNIC has been working hard developing general policy documentation
for its operations as well as contributing to the production of policy
documents together with the other Regional Registries. The APNIC is
currently introducing a training programme to its membership, focusing
on the APNIC procedures. This course is similar to the LIR course
provided by the RIPE NCC.

APNIC will continue to do a lot of work on documents and translations
are very important due to language barriers and the demands of members
in the APNIC areas. With regards to technical services they are
closely looking at the current and planned activities of the RIPE NCC.
Paul expressed his thanks to the NCC for having provided short term
staff from the RIPE NCC to assist with APNIC operations.

Paul Wilson added that the APNIC is currently reviewing its
membership fee structure which was initially proposed to the APNIC
members in March of this year. Rob asked if the new charging scheme
in development is also copied to address space consumption and if an
ageing scheme is in place. Paul replied with saying that this
particular question has not been raised by the membership thus far.
They will be mixing it and historical allocations will be taken into
account.


- 7. - ICANN

A - Current Status of ICANN (R. Blokzijl)

Rob noted that RIPE has been very involved in the Address Supporting
Organisation. This has been discussed for the past 6 months, it has
been discussed in depth and at length. A few new developments in this
area have taken place between RIPE 32 and 33 meetings.

B - Progress with the Address Supporting Organisation (ASO)

1. Report from the ARIN/ASO meeting (M. Kuehne)
+ Report from the IETF/ASO meeting

Mirjam reported that during the IETF meeting in Minneapolis there was
a good open discussion. A few principles have been laid down that
were seen as significant for the creation of an ASO.

Another ASO meeting was held in conjunction with the ARIN members
meeting which was held in Atlanta.

Mirjam provided a summary of issues discussed at the ARIN meeting
first. This meeting marked the first time that ARIN had working group
meetings. During this meeting the address allocation policy working
group and the database working group met. These are organised very
much like the RIPE working groups. At the membership meeting and the
advisory council meeting it was decided to create a few more working
groups:

http://www.arin.net/members/wg/index.html

During the RIPE 32 plenary session discussions on the ICANN process
it was felt that in the ARIN region the structures and processes were
not as open and as transparent as in the other regions. The members
have discussed this issue and concluded to have open meetings to
discuss policy. It was also decided that the minutes of these
meetings will be published on the ARIN website.

Another proposal suggests that organisations that receive registration
services from ARIN automatically become members of ARIN. Mirjam was
not certain if this was decided yet as the decision needed to be
passed through the ARIN Board. It was noted that supporting this
proposal could help to further stabilise ARIN. ARIN would like to see
its membership participate in the discussions and give more support
to the ARIN structures.

During the ASO meeting in Atlanta a few ASO models were presented.
Most of the attendees supported the simple model where the
communities are represented through the regional registries in the ASO.

The next step is to work further on an ASO proposal. There was a
discussion to commission someone to facilitate this process. There
will be 2 more ICANN meetings, one in Berlin (May 1999) and one in
Santiago (August 1999). The RIPE NCC will actively participate in the
meetings.

+ Report from the RIPE NCC Board (K. Mitchell)

Keith Mitchell provided a summary from the RIPE NCC Executive Board
with regards to ICANN. He noted that he attended another ASO meeting
held in Singapore, on behalf of the RIPE NCC.

Keith expressed that the board believes a facilitator is needed for
the ICANN process. This process is extremely time consuming. The idea
is to contract someone who can devote the necessary time for this
activity. It is important to maintain initiative and continuity.

The person contracted for this task must be able to devote at least
half of their time to this, for a period of 6 months although it
could be longer. Keith stresses that the individual is required to
know the industry as well as governance issues. The problem is that
the people involved in the industry and governance issues are often
too busy for the task at hand.

Keith asked the meeting participants to please suggest and/or nominate
an individual who could carry this responsibility for the Regional
Registries. The facilitator would have to participate in both the
ICANN and Regional Registry meetings. He/she must also monitor the
discussions on the mailinglists and continue liase with the ICANN
board. The members of the Regional Registries are also participating
in this activity and we currently have an ASO discussion list to
track issues and report on progress. Keith also noted that too much
time should not be wasted on writing formal documents, as was the
case in the domain name supporting organisation. We must concentrate
on outlining the principles and then produce a document.


C - Presentation on Guiding Principles (R. Blokzijl)
See document by G. Houston:

www.ripe.net/mail-archives/aso-discuss/19990311-19990401/msg00008.htm

With regards to document preparation, Rob also believes that the
correct way to produce them is to first agree on the principles and
only then translate these into a document. Consensus must be reached
on the principles first.

A draft document exists which has been put together by Geoff Houston
a member of the APNIC Executive Council. It is based on discussions
which took place during the ICANN meetings discussed above as well as
a previous meeting held in Singapore. The principles are simple but
fundamental in nature:

First of all we should very consciously find out who the players are.
Naturally there are the Regional Registries with their members, they
are a very important players, but we should identify any other
legitimate players in the IP address policy issues.

Policies should not be confused with politics. It must be possible
for good policies to be implemented.

Any policies put in place should recognise that the existing Regional
Registry structure has proven to be strong and robust. We are not
going to invent something we do not need.

We should keep in mind that we need time to work on things so that we
can develop good policies. We should not confuse the time frame with
the DNSO time frame. They have urgent problems that need resolving
and they have nothing in place yet. We already have a good structure
in place and significantly less problems.

Open processes are important and a part of the discussion is on how to
implement an open process. There seems to be consensus and
understanding of the fact that the current Regional Registries are
open. For instance: RIPE meetings are not only open to NCC members,
they are open to anyone who wants to attend. We cannot be more open
than that. This has been acknowledged by the community, but also by
the current interim ICANN Board of Directors.

D - Questions & Discussions

A question was raised about the 2 proposals which have been made with
regards to representation (regional registries versus the at large
membership of ICANN). This is a point of contention.

Rob noted that what we have reached is a broad understanding that the
at large members, as far as address space is concerned, is best
represented through the Regional Registries.

It was pointed out that during the ARIN/ASO meeting Michael Schneider,
president of Euro ISPA (representing 300 European ISPs), stated that
this did not represent his ideas. During the same meeting someone
from CIX said it did not represent their needs either.

Rob replied stating that these persons were not present in the
RIPE 33 meeting and could have joined to the meeting to voice their
position. We have a much wider representation and are only concerned
with the address space issue, whereas the Euro ISPA organisation has
a much broader working area.

Rob said he realises that there are groups that have a slightly
different view. Keith and Rob offered to come to the membership
meeting of Euro ISPA, but was told that they had an overloaded agenda.
Rob reported that he had the feeling this item was not very high on
their list of priorities. He again stressed that we are open, and
that he hopes and expects that the organisation will be represented at
the ASO meeting, which will take place in Berlin.

Randy Bush noted that if the CIX executive has taken a position on
this, they did so without informing the CIX membership. The majority
of the members know nothing of this.

Keith stressed that this is a big obstacle. There is a representation
war between the existing Regional Registries and a couple of trade
associations. There have been some suggestions that these associations
are acting without authority and possibly there exist counter
allegations as well.

Keith stated that, if a member of Euro ISPA, CIX or a Regional
Registry, the best way to secure the set up of a stable ASO is to
tell the organisations whether you do or do not want these
organisations to represent you in this process. He added that if any
members do not want the RIPE NCC to represent them that they should
please state this. Keith stressed that the RIPE NCC is receptive to
comments on this issue and he hoped the others organisations are
as well.

Rob reminded the participants that in the Euro ISPA, the majority of
ISPs in Europe are not allowed to join in. Only ISPs based in the
European Union are eligible for membership.

Rob stated that he was aware of this ongoing discussion but that it
cannot be properly discussed if the organisations in question are not
present. Rob concluded by stating that the RIPE NCC provides a fair
representation, but it does not claim to be the only one or the
complete one. Everyone is welcome to be a part of it.

E - Conclusions & Next Steps

The RIPE NCC proposition is to start looking for a facilitator,
someone who has good knowledge of the general issues and/or the
technical issues and has not been part of the recent discussions.
This person should act as an impartial facilitator. If you feel you
are eligible or know someone who is, please contact either Keith or
Rob.

The RIPE NCC Executive Board has agreed to commit the funds necessary
to facilitate the project. It will be a project that the Board hopes
the other Regional Registries will also want to be part of. Keith was
pleased to announce that the APNIC have already agreed to support the
project and hopefully ARIN will as well.

- 8. - Transatlantic Cables: from retail to wholesale (D. Bovio)

- 9. - Reports from the RIPE Working Groups

The chairs from the various working groups provided reports on the
working group meetings that were held earlier in the week. Summaries
of the meetings provided by the working group chairpersons are included
here in the text to follow. Full minutes of the working groups will be
published on the RIPE NCC Website at http://www.ripe.net/wg/


Routing WG
----------
Chair: Joachim Schmitz
Attendees: 74
Scribe: Roman Karpiuk

Reports:

- Status Report: RPS Standards & Drafts
(Cengiz Alleattinoglu)
- Report from the NCC (JLS Damas)
- RPSL Transition: Issues and Progress (JLS Damas)
- Reports from other registries
- Overview (D. Kessens)
- RADB (A. Ahuja)
- Interesting Internet Developments (A. Ahuja)
- Multicast Developments (K. Kayser)

Actions:

- 29.R1 Definition/AUP of Internet Routing Registry (IRR)
- 31.R1 IPv6 IRR
- 32.R1 Document Issues related to transition RIPE 181 -> RPSL
- 32.R2 Consistency Check IRR


RIPE 33 DBsec TF
----------------
Chair: Joachim Schmitz
Attendees: 10
Scribe: Joao Damas

Reports:

- IETF
- RIPE NCC, ARIN, APNIC

Topics:

- prefix/origin authentication (G. Winters)
- rps-auth
- core: prefix/origin auth
referral-by
- non-core: (no) reclaim
auth-override

A question was raised with regards to the Database security task
force; do we still have a mandate from the community to keep this
task force? Shall we close it down? Requests for additional input
will be sent to the maillinglist of the working groups. Participants
were asked provide their input to be discussed at the next RIPE
meeting.


LIR WG
------
Chair: Hans Petter Holen
Attendees: 68
Scribe: Paul Tate

Action points LIR-WG RIPE 32

o DONE: NCC: Web interface to RIPE-141
- Announce, receive comments, and make source public
o DONE: NCC: write up suggestion on lowering AW from /19
o DONE: Guy Davies, UUnet: Start discussion on list on max allocation
size and internal aggregation needs for large networks
o DONE: NCC: make pretty address statistics charts
o DONE: NCC: IP addresses to cable networks
- Document current IANA policy and align practice with other IRRs
o Everybody: Participate in policies for IPv6 discussion
o OPEN: tagging of IP addresses for anti-SPAM

Tagging IP addresses for anti SPAM measures
o presentation on how the Dialup User List implemented by Paul Vixie
works: maps.vix.com
o A discussion on the usefulness of adding mechanisms to the RIPE
database took place
o Daniel Karrenberg proposed a more general mechanism that would solve
this and other needs
o Passed on to the db wg


DNS WG
------
Chair: Ruediger Volk
Attendees:
Scribe:

The DNS working group started of their session with reports from NCC,
delivered by Mirjam Kuehne. In response to two action items from the
last time, RIPE NCC had been asked to do a little bit of operational
statistics to see the impact of missing delegations and bad
delegations in the reverse domain mapping. Lee wilmot grepped out
some statistics from the DNS servers run by the NCC. Half of the load
was due to problems in the delegations. We couldn't figure out what
this means during this meeting. We will be analyzing the data
provided by the NCC further on.

The RIPE NCC had also been asked to check the current policy
documents, whether they could be enhanced to include stronger
encouragement for doing the reverse mapping correctly. We were told
that the forthcoming updated documents will include enhancements in
this direction.

After the reports from NCC, Lars-Johan Liman provided some reports
about DNS related sessions at the last IETF meeting. Randy Bush also
gave a few hints about what's going on there. For the next agenda
item we checked the status of the documents we have been working on,
unfortunately the publication has not progressed as planned. A very
short SOA recommandation paper will be published distributed in final
form by Peter Koch. The dummies guide which Lars has been working on
probably has been distributed in the final form this week. Collecting
more items and issues for larger best practise is still open. SOA and
dummies are supposed to be final.

These papers have been discussed in context of IETF meeting as well
and there has not been any requests for substantial changes so its
only a little bit of editorial stuff. We had opened the question of
DNSSEC of the availability of security functionality and DNS in
particular. Security in the way of securing the authenticy of DNS
data, we had the intention to collect material and check out what
work plan the working group should develop in this area. The result
was this: the TLD-wg told us that there is lots of interest but no
specific input for requirements. On the other hand the collection of
items and issues within the DNS-wg did not give much material at this
point in time. However there is supposed to be a small workshop in
the near future in Sweden and we expect to get substantial input back
from that event.

Checking how we expect the DNSSEC to progress, it looks like it will
take some time until we have real implementations that are ready for
being used by normal administrators, so the progress will be rather
slow. We will be monitoring this and get back to you during the next
meeting.

At the end we had Fernando Garcia present a sketch of a draft document
that he has started working on which is supposed to help
administrators with detailed advice on how to process DNS when they
have to renumber or change providers and change the DNS delegations
in this context. It seems that this kind of issue is a problem for a
couple of parties, so having someone or a small group create a
document that gives advice and help seems to be of interest and a
good idea. However, at the current time the reported document is a
sketch and we are looking for people to read this and comment on it
and we have to check next time whether this will make progress within
the working group and within RIPE.

TLD WG
------
Chair: Niall O'Reilly
Attendees: 33
Scribe: Maldwyn Morris
No. of ccTLDs represented: 9

Current Actions

TLD-32.1 [Chair]
Update Workplan
Part done; kept open; follow up on list.

TLD-32.2 [Chair]
Determine DNS-SEC plans and need for support from
DNS-WG
No registries have advised Chair of plans to
implement DNS-SEC. A couple have indicated that
guidance from DNS-WG would be welcome. One has
indicated that preparatory study is in progress.
Done

TLD-32.3 [Chair]
Advise DB-WG of number of registries planning to use
RIPE whois code
Nine registries are either using or considering using
the code.
Done

TLD-32.4 [Philippe Renaut]
Present NIC-FR directory work at Vienna
Done

TLD-32.5 [Mike Norris]
Co-ordinate review of RIPE-152
Agreed: review of RIPE-152 is not necessary at this
time.
Closed as OBE

HARMONIC: Directory Service of NIC.FR

Presentation by Philippe Renaut.

HARMONIC web front-end supports query by (partial) domain
name, business area or geographical location with
multilingual presentation. Architecture provides for
access to multiple, distributed databases.

Question: are other registries prepared to make their data
available in pilot project using HARMONIC interface ?

See http://harmonic.nic.fr.

CENTR Update

Presentation by Fay Howard.

RIPE-CENTR Project winding down.
CENTR to incorporate in England and to locate in Oxford.
Fay Howard appointed as General Manager.
CENTR will be recruiting: technical and administrative
staff.
Technical workshop planned with RIPE-34.

See http://www.centr.org.


ICANN/DNSO Update
Presentation by Fay Howard.

Paris, BMW, Singapore.
CENTR participation in consensus-building.
DNSO Formation, Constituencies and General Assembly.
Inaugural Meetings in Berlin later this month.

See http://www.icann.org.

New Actions

TLD-33.1 [Chair]
Provide minutes for RIPE-32 TLD-WG.

TLD-33.2 [Chair]
Obtain information from registries on plans for
continued dependency on RIPE DB for domain objects.

[ Notes added after the closing plenary session:

Feedback during the plenary suggests that I have
expressed this action item far too tersely for
clarity.

Several issues arise here: the large number of domain
objects in the RIPE DB, authority for these objects
and appropriateness of this location for them,
quality of data in these objects, possibility of
distributing data among several databases, coherency
of operational contact data, single point of initial
reference, control of access to the data, data
privacy, and possible differences in policy among
registries.

These issues need to be discussed in co-ordination
with DB WG, next requirements determined, and
corresponding resources identified.

-- Niall O'Reilly ]

TLD-33.3 [Chair]
Request information from registries on whether they
are prepared to make their data available for pilot
project using HARMONIC interface.

TLD-33.4 [Chair]
Place Future Direction of TLD-WG on Agenda for
RIPE-34 and stimulate preparatory discussion on
mailing list.

TLD-33.5 [All]
Contribute to workplan discussion on mailing list.


Question from Mike Norris relating to the maintenance of domain
objects in the RIPE database. Question: would it be possible to
broaden that and make a copy on the database working group? The
people might have comments on that. Niall is keeping in close contact
with Wilfried Woeber on that.

Dfk is concerned 32.2 is formulated in the sense of dependency might
be a broader issue on RIPE in general. What does the group think
about this. It does not just concern CENTR or the TLD working group.
Wilfried Woeber noted that we seem to be moving into new field. We
were forced to start thinking about the logical relationship of where
certain data is stored. Who is supposed to store the data who is
supposed to provide some rubber stamping to certain data. His feeling
is that we have to identify and technically describe the problem
first, this is a new issue. There are 3 different sets of data in the
big database in Amsterdam, namely IP, routing, and domain data. The
quality of the information differs depending on which set it
originates from. This has to be discussed during the next meeting.
What and who will work on this?

IPv6 WG
-------
Chair: David Kessens
Attendees: 100+
Scribe: Petra Zeidler


The IPv6 draft policy document was presented and discussed. The draft
can be found on the RIPE NCC website at
http://www.ripe.net/lir/registries/ipv6.html

The IPv6 working group approved the policies outlined in the document,
however further work is need to complete the document.

The IPv6 tutorial as given on Tuesday, 4 May 1999 will be repeated at
some point later on. David Kessens stated that this pointer will be in
the minutes of the IPv6 working group session and posted to the
ripe-list.

Presentation Jan Czmok:
http://engr.gigabell.net/ipv6/pres/

Actions:
- The RIPE NCC is to submit the IPv6 policy document to IANA and
request address space.

EIX WG
------
Chair: Fearghas Mckay
Attendees: 45
Scribe: Chris Fletcher

1 INTRO
last time asked for Y2K so it is on the agenda

2 SCRIBE
none

3 Czech - Boris ?
NIX - www.nix.cz
aug 1996
8 Founding members
non-profit
now 21(?) members
located in 10th floor Prague TV tower.
Czech radio communications - telco
problems getting other carriers in.
now 100Mb switch
capacity problems mean separate peerings around NIX
no stats
national:international traffic -> 50:50 (due to language).

5u rack space
max 2 circuits to NIX + phone line
max 2 ports

czk 110 000 - USD 3150 pa
Requirements
direct routes to 4 root-name servers
RIPE LIR
peering with one other member

GA 4 time a year
2/3 majority for new members

Exec committee
3 elected members

Future
2nd location in Prague
dark fibre interconnect
full time staff
CZ is small, can they attract multinationals?

Slovak - Marek(?)
SIX
started 1996
21 members
read only access to member routers by SIX staff !
considering interconnect with NIX (CZ)
little compeition for Internation circuits - expensive.

4 Vienna - Christian
No change
Moving to larger room
Visit - Wed afternoon - meet 14:00 after lunch.

5 Scot - Fergus
proposal - www.scotix.net
two offers tendered
close end of may
decision 6 weeks later

6 AMSIX - Rob
56 (actual) + 8 (progress) members
carriers upgrading bandwith
multiple stm 16 per carrier
task force to replace existing catalyst 5000s
share ideas about new technology

7 LINX - Nic

72 members
> 500 Mbps

dropped International connectivity requirements
dropped peering requirement to 1 other member
no transit dropped
technical criteria tightened.

rate of growth picked up particularly after change of requirements

less than half are just UK. 1/8 US & 1/8 global

Future
150+ members with current infrastructure
gigabit to members
move to telehouse 2000
satellite & regional sites

8 Y2K

LINX - complience - checked switches, servers, building access
readiness? - conference for ISPs at rollover?
BSI - self compliance.

AMSIX - Rob
checked switches, building access with manual overrides
no protection against national disasters.
will issue to statement to members

VIX - Christian
checked switches, airco, UPS
(circular dependancies) everyone is waiting for each other ;-)

9 Other Business

Christian - Are people allowing extending switched LAN to office,
no router at XP?

Liman - SEIX push connections to office. Connections come with
dark fibre from office to two switches. Wanted to get rid of
co-location business. No-one doing resell of connections so hasn't
happened. Stockholm City only are allowed to dig streets so they
sell cheap dark fibre where people need it.

Boris - one member doing this.

Keith - do it at layer one, otherwise loose admin control.

Rob - members don't trust each other to do it, but it happens and
will happen more.

Liman - Harder to do private interconnects (backhaul ethernet
between routers) eg Multicast.

Database WG
-----------
Chair: Wilfried Woeber
Attendees: ~80-90
Scribe: Ulf Kieber

NCC and database WG are going through consolidation at the moment
in the sense in that we again had the database operational summary
(traditional item on the agenda). We really want a code freeze on the
existing database software implementation. There will only be one
minor implementation/addtion effort and that is to update the
inet6num object but otherwise the ncc is putting most of their
effort/resources into progress with the software re-implementation
project.

Joao Damas from the RIPE NCC gave a presentation and provided
background information about the proposed structure of the software
system and information on where the NCC is standing at the moment.
Getting progress in the reimplementation project is a prerequisite
for the ripe region to move to RPSL for the production environment.
It is important to have a new code base which allows the ncc to
implement new things on top of that and to do things in a more
structure way than based on the old code.

Database consistency project:
The NCC has again allocated human resources to it. All of us together
should try to increase the quality of the objects/data being stored
in the database. Wilfried will give feedback about this during the
RIPE meeting in September or early next year. This project is really
making a difference. A certain set of measures should give an
indication if we are really making progress or if we only can slow
down the rate of deterioration of consistency.

Wilfried reported on the role of liaison with IETF activities. There
are two drafts being worked on right now which have impact on
database activities. The authentication and authorization draft. This
paper is approaching final status. Version 0.4

The distributed registry docuement also still on the table.
A document by Janos Zsako regarding PGP is being resubmitted as a
formal paper. It will soon become a final document.

Wilfried continued and stated that he feels that we have to deal with
the IPv6 compliance issue. From administrative logistic point of view
it seems to give problems. For example checking the interfaces
through the other functionalities/components of the whole system.
We have found out that RPSL is right now not IPv6 enabled. We might
want to think about an RPSL ng. or think about how we are going to
implement the IPv6 routing registry in the future. The technical
input should come from the routing working group.

Wilfried mentioned another thing to think about: IP registry. We are
in final stages of having an IP distribution framework. We have to
keep track of IPv6 addresses just like we are now keeping track of
IPv4 addresses. Wilfried is looking for input from the regional
registries as well as other working groups, how to do that. Either we
extend one of the existing documents or we come up with a new
document. The technical aspects appear to be under control at the
moment, the adminstrative environment has to be worked on.

Regarding input from the other working groups. We have started to
think about issues such as: where do we store data and who is
responsible for the maintenance of data and who might be in the
position for providing branding/rubber stamping/certificates for
certain data. In particular DNS objects as being the majority of
objects. Wilfried stated that we really have to start thinking about
how to deal with that.

The LIR working group discussed the IP tagging proposal, which has to
do with earmarking a certain subset of IP addresses as being used for
dialup customers. They had a discussion about it which was sparked
by the fact that there might be not only one application like smtp
mail which might be interested in finding out about the usage of
certain address space. We might want to document things like top
level domain name servers.

This seems to suggest that there is room for application type
registries. This is at the moment very fuzzy set of ideas/discussion
and it requires more thinking and talking to find our way.
Wilfried's major issue is who is going to use that data if we
eventually might decide to implement the tools. Who is going to
grant the data. Who will fund the resources in the end and how do
we make sure we do not make/provide tools noone wants to use in the
end, because that would simply be a waste of resources.

Netnews WG
----------
Chair: Felix Kugler
Attendees: 30
Scribe: Julia Edwards

Netnews WG minutes

Chair - Felix Kugler
Scribe - Julia Edwards, RIPE NCC

1. outstanding actions

A30-N3 *OPEN* flowmaps
A31-N1 *ONGOING* groupsync (now subproject NHNS)
A32-N1 *CLOSED* Test groupsync prototype (now called autd)

The open and ongoing actions will be renumbered to better point out
the new direction of these projects.

2. Newsbone

Reports about current status of Newsbone and the deployment of
online monitoring. Presentations about two tools to characterize
the QOS of a path between two news servers.

3. Flowmaps

Kai Siering is back. He will continue his work on flowmaps.
Actions: A33.N1: rewrite of inpath software (Kai Siering)
A33.N2: visualization of traffic flows (Kai Siering)

4. groupsync - newsgroup synchronization

Two (new) prototypes have been presented:

autd by Jonas Luster: based on CVS; work will be proceed outside
the scope of this working group.

NHNS by Daniel Diaz/Juan Garcia: based on DNS
Actions: A33.N3: work on NHNS software (Daniel Diaz/Juan Garcia)
A33.N4: "how-to" guide to simplify installation of TLH
servers (Elmar Bins)

Most slides, this short report and the minutes are available from
http://www.switch.ch/netnews/wg/meetings.html.

Anti-Spam WG
------------
Chair: Rodney Tillotson
Attendees: 44
Scribe: Gerry Berthauer

1 Reviewed progress towards WG objectives -- none

2 Reviewed developments in spam and anti-spam
- Collateral spam (your domain named in spam you never see)
- System compromise to obtain relaying service
+ DULs -- list of network addresses allocated for dial-up

3 Discussed current concerns
+ People are coping with spam in lots of different ways
- We want tools to identify spam
- We want software to more easily prevent transit

4 CENAR
WG work item -- Centre for European Network Abuse Resolution)
- No enthusiasm
- Unlikely to deliver a result
+ Consider instead offering spam advice to existing CERTs
* Appeal for material on the mailing list; draft for September

5 Code of Conduct
WG work item
- This group has so far generated no text
+ Material is available elsewhere (LINX BCP soon, many AUPs)
* Offer this material on the list for discussion;
draft for September

Test Traffic WG
---------------
Chair: Martin McCarthy
Attendees: 50
Scribe:

There was a presentation by Henk Uijterwaal of the RIPE NCC about
the test traffic project.

http://www.ripe.net/test-traffic/Talks/9905_ripe33/

The working group have a draft charter which hit their mailinglist
some time ago. The working group hopes to have that stamped and used
by the next RIPE meeting.

The working group has started to work on a policy for publishing the
collected data from the test traffic project into the public domain
or some such idea. This work will start on the mailinglist.

- 10. - Next meetings:

- RIPE 34 20-24 September 1999 Amsterdam
- RIPE 35 21-25 February 2000 Amsterdam
- RIPE 36 May 2000 Budapest
- RIPE 37 11-15 September 2000 Amsterdam
- RIPE 38 22-26 January 2001 Amsterdam
- RIPE 39 May 2001 Invitations and suggestions welcome!


- 11. - AOB

Rob expressed his thanks to Christian Panigl and the Vienna
University team for providing the great facilities. He also thanked
the companies that sponsored the various social activities. Finally,
he extended his thanks to the RIPE NCC for their support in the
organisation of the meeting.


- 12. - Close