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TTM-WG RIPE 52 draft minutes

  • From: Alexander Tudor alex_tudor@localhost
  • Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:37:02 -0700

Dear All,

Please find attached the groups RIPE 52 minutes. Many thanks to Rene!



PS Due to personal reasons I cannot attend RIPE 53.

Draft minutes Test Traffic Working Group at RIPE 52

Chair    Alexander Tudor
Scribe   Rene Wilhelm

25 attendees


1. Administrative
  - Scribe,
  - Agenda bash,
  - Approve RIPE 51 minutes.
2. TTM Status Report
  -  Included in 3(a)
3. New Directions for TTM
  a) NCC's ideas on new directions for TTM (Andrei Robachevsky)
  b) 2005-11/Multicast Monitoring (Gert Doering)
  c) 2005-10/Consumer Broadband Monitoring (Alex Tudor)
4. Open Microphone 
5. AOB

1. Administrative

Agenda and RIPE 51 minutes were approved

3a. RIPE NCC's ideas on new directions for TTM  (Andrei Robachevsky)

Andrei Robachevsky reflects on 8 years of Test Traffic Measurements by
RIPE NCC, the good things, the not so good things, the maintenance
and deployment issues. Some of the assumptions made in the design
of TTM no longer hold, have been overtaken by developments. Operator
interest in running a TTM box in their networks is stable at best, as
indicated by the number of active test boxes.

Andrei continues his presentation with ideas on how to improve,
increase the value of TTM; e.g. move the focus from network to
application, do more composite measurements, measure on demand, report
results immediately. The architecture of TTM could evolve to be multi-tier,
simple collectors and more complex aggregators.

Gert Doering remarks that for the multicast proposal he sees measurements
being done continuously, not just on demand. The idea is to have a
report available, a place to go and check measurement data, the
moment something is reported to be broken. For the normal delay measurements
he rarely looks at individual data points, but it's very helpful to
have these data when a customer comes along with complaints;
if the data confirms network has been up all month, he can point that out
to the user and stress that measurements were done by an independent

Brian Nisbet comments that HEANET also value the current continuous delay
measurements and the large dataset. Although TTM results are not checked
on a day to day basis, there is real value in having data available
when something goes wrong. In addition TTM data has been used numerous
times in network design.

Geert Nijpels reports that AMS-IX use the current delay data for (quality)
statements to their customers. They do not have much interest in more
complex, composite measurements but don't mind the TTM platform extended
as long as the near real time output via port 9148 of packets send and
received (including incoming delays) remains accessible.

Henk Uijterwaal answers he can see a mixed model: continue collecting the
delay data, but only produce plots on demand. At the moment RIPE NCC
creates thousands of plots a day, which takes significant resources
but hardly anyone ever looks at them.

Daniel Karrenberg feels the discussion in tt-wg is a good starting point;
input regarding the usefulness of long time series and one-way delay
measurements is valuable. The transition to a new operational and business
model for TTM must be done in a good way; develop in test traffic working
group but also interface with NCC-services WG and with the RIPE NCC board
who are responsible for finances.

The discussion concluded with the observation that nobody in the
meeting opposed the general directions outlined by Andrei.
It was decided to form a task force, a core group of interested people,
who would look into further developing the ideas and moving things forward.
Brian Nisbet, Neil O'Reilly and Geert Nijpels volunteered,
joined from the RIPE NCC side by Daniel Karrenberg, Henk Uijterwaal and
Andrei Robachevsky.

3b. Policy proposal 2005-11: Multicast Monitoring (Gert Doering)

Gert Doering explains the idea is to have a reachability plot for
multicast, which will allow operators to more quickly see when something
breaks in multicast. The specifics of how to implement it are left to the
RIPE NCC. The proposal has been circulated on the tt-wg list, received
some support and no strong opposition.

Daniel Karrenberg agrees measuring multicast is interesting, but
he doesn't like the binary "do it yes/no" question posed by the policy
development process. He would like to see work being done on other
things too, the restructuring of the TTM service and consumer broadband
Implementing multicast monitoring is something RIPE NCC could take on
at a lower priority.

After some more discussion it was concluded that the best course of
action would be to first move TTM to the new model and the consider
adding multicast monitoring as one of the services.

3c. Policy proposal 2005-10: Consumer Broadband Monitoring (Alex Tudor)

The proposal was posted to the mailing list last October. Not much
discussion, but no opposition either. Alex asks the attendees
if anyone is against CBM, opposes consumer broadband monitoring
being part of the new open platform.

Daniel Karrenberg expresses his concerns about starting a service with
RIPE NCC membership funds that might only be beneficial to a small subset
of the members. Personally he likes it a lot, but it could end up being
perceived as a threat by service providers.

Neil O'Reilly proposes to start with a proof of concept implementation
with limited scope. A pilot implementation which highlights what could
be done with a CBM service, what value it could have.

It was agreed setting up this pilot would be the next step for the CBM

4. Open microphone

Geert Nijpels: at RIPE 50 there was a presentation by Thomas Wana
on improving accuracy of clocks. Is anything being done with that?
Have some of these been deployed?

Henk Uijterwaal: some things were purely academical, others turned
out to be less practical in operating the TTM service.

5. A.O.B.

no other business.