[routing-wg] 2019-08 Review Phase (RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned RIPE NCC Address Space)

Anton pointed out I may have both misunderstood and not answered your question.

The testbed is a soft TA. In deployment, people will have to move to a
new (as yet not created) TAL for AS0, as long as it runs independently
of the mainline TAL.

We intend running a distinct TA for AS0 until we get a clear signal
our community wants it integrated. We have stated concerns about the
automatic adoption of ASO products worldwide without visible agreement
of this activity, a separate TAL turns the activity from opt-out to
opt-in.

We are duplicating the software signing infrastructure, but with lower
costs overall given commonalities.

We are still discussing if we can run the offline-TA HSM and the
online production key HSM for both activities, or if we need a
distinct infrastructure for AS0 and mainline. Duplication overall is
not in APNIC's model, we rely on spares and alternate use of the HSM,
but production signing systems are single instances. I believe they
are capable of some virtualisation or segmentation but that skirts the
underlying physical risk/dependency.

Sorry for not being clearer before

-George

On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 6:18 PM Carlos Friaças via routing-wg
<routing-wg at ripe.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Any clue if APNIC has duplicated the infrastructure (and cost) as it is
> foreseen in the NCC's impact analysis...?
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2020, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via routing-wg wrote:
>
> > Hi Max,
> >
> > I think is too early to take a decision, and in fact I don't think we are yet in case A.
> >
> > Consensus is about justified objections. I can see also people in favor and I understand, as we usually do in any proposal discussion, that non-objection is consent.
> >
> > The only justification that I can see is from Job about possible cost. However, I don't see figures about how much it cost to develop this AS0 + how much it cost the operators to use it (if they want) vs developing the SLURM + making sure it is secure as RPKI + how much ti cost the operators to use it.
> >
> > And by the way, the AS0 is compatible with the SLURM, so opeartors can choose.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jordi
> > @jordipalet
> >
> >
> >
> > El 25/2/20 20:30, "routing-wg en nombre de Massimiliano Stucchi" <routing-wg-bounces at ripe.net en nombre de max at stucchi.ch> escribió:
> >
> >
> >    Hi everyone,
> >
> >    On 20/02/2020 15:39, Petrit Hasani wrote:
> >
> >    > As per the RIPE Policy Development Process (PDP), the purpose of this four week Review Phase is to continue discussion of the proposal, taking the impact analysis into consideration, and to review the full draft RIPE Policy Document.
> >    >
> >    > At the end of the Review Phase, the Working Group (WG) Chairs will determine whether the WG has reached rough consensus. It is therefore important to provide your opinion, even if it is simply a restatement of your input from the previous phase.
> >
> >    Today, me and the other proposers of this policy change had a meeting to
> >    discuss the feedback we have been receiving on the list.
> >
> >    We understand that many people find this proposal controversial, and
> >    many have expressed themselves against it in the past days.
> >
> >    We would like to encourage discussion and provide us with a bit of
> >    guidance on how the community would like to proceed.  At present we have
> >    identified three ways of progressing:
> >
> >    A) We can try to go ahead with this proposal, although it will be hard
> >    to get consensus;
> >
> >    B) We can drop the proposal, and leave everything as is;
> >
> >    C) We can change the proposal to a different ask for RIPE NCC.  The idea
> >    could be to ask RIPE NCC to provide a SLURM file (similar to what APNIC
> >    does), so that single users can decide if they want to feed it to their
> >    validators.
> >
> >    From what we gathered in the discussions, I think B) could be the most
> >    sought-after decision, but we would like to propose C) as the way
> >    forward.  It would give the possibility to those who want to implement
> >    this solution to do it in a lightweight fashion.  It would for sure be
> >    much much cheaper to implement.
> >
> >    In any case, as Job already pointed out, I prepared a simple tool to
> >    generate a SLURM file using either the Team Cymru bogons list, or
> >    considering any unassigned space from the NRO delegated stats file.
> >    RIPE NCC has kindly provided help and patches to improve it.  If you
> >    want to give it a go, you can find it here:
> >
> >    https://github.com/stucchimax/rpki-as0-bogons
> >
> >    Thank you for any suggestion or any discussion around this.
> >
> >    Ciao!
> >    --
> >    Massimiliano Stucchi
> >    MS16801-RIPE
> >    Twitter/Telegram: @stucchimax
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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