[routing-wg] Minutes for routing wg meeting at RIPE 73

Dear all,
I am attaching the minutes for our meeting during RIPE 73. I would like to greatly thank the RIPE NCC and in particular Amanda Gowland for getting these ready in good time.
Please post any comments, questions, etc regarding these minutes to the list before year’s end, when we declare them final.

As an additional note, no further comments have been received on the minutes for our meetings at RIPE 72 and therefore, as mentioned during the session at RIPE 73 we are declaring this final.

Regards
Joao Damas and Paolo Moroni
=========================================================

Routing Working Group - RIPE 73 
Thursday, 27 October, 10:00-11:30 
WG Co-Chairs: Joao Damas, Paolo Moroni
Scribe: Anand Buddhhev 

A. Admin 

Joao Damas opened the session. He said that the minutes of the working group 
session from RIPE 72 were published quite late and apologised for this. He requested that instead of 
approving them in this session, people had a week's time to look at them, and 
then he would declare them final. 

B. ISP Border Definition - Alexander Azimov 

The presentation is available at: 
https://ripe73.ripe.net/presentations/149-ripe73.routingwg.azimov.pdf <https://ripe73.ripe.net/presentations/149-ripe73.routingwg.azimov.pdf> 

Joao Damas asked if the draft mentioned in Alexander's presentation would be 
submitted to the IETF. Alexander said that the first draft had already been 
submitted, and a second one was in progress. Joao then asked whether Alexander 
was doing the Bird implementation himself, and Alexander said yes. 

Rudiger Volk (Deutsche Telekom) asked whether Alexander saw a use-case for 
splitting a single AS for (usually) non-technical reasons. Alexander answered 
that when migrating, one is forced to migrate one ASN to another, but here one 
is free to unite or not. It's just an option. 

Rudiger then noted that the original design of BGP did not factor in commercial 
relations. 

C. Large BGP Communities - Job Snijders 

The presentation is available at: 
https://ripe73.ripe.net/presentations/152-Job_Snijders_RIPE73_Large_BGP_Communities.pdf <https://ripe73.ripe.net/presentations/152-Job_Snijders_RIPE73_Large_BGP_Communities.pdf> 

Rudiger Volk had several comments. He said that comparing large BGP communities 
with earlier proposals misses the fact that earlier proposals were inadequate. 
He said it was important to note in slides and documentation that large BGP 
communities do in fact fix the concerns operators had with 16-bit communities. 

Rudiger then noted that while the large BGP communities attribute is 
transitive, and should propagate everywhere, Job should not expect it to 
propagate everywhere, because some operators filter prefixes with certain 
attributes for security or other reasons. Rudiger was surprised that operators 
were not doing more filtering. Job replied that if more operators did such 
filtering, it would stifle innovation in BGP, because filters tend to become 
stale. He then added that if anyone *is* filtering BGP paths, then they should 
at least allow attribute 32 (large BGP communities). 

Wolfgang Tremmel (DE-CIX) thanked Job for this work and wondered why anyone 
else hadn't had this idea before. 

Warren Kumari noted that there was a lot of work involved and thanked Job for 
getting it done. 

Joao asked whether anyone had asked Juniper about their plans. Job said he had 
heard about implementation coming in 2017. 

Alexander Azimov asked if Job had asked Juniper, and Job said he had heard 
about it from friends, and that it was second-hand information. Alexander then 
asked which code point the implementations were using. Job said that some were 
using 30 and some 31, squatting on both unassigned code points, and Job said he would do that. 
. He then said that the 32 code point had been assigned 
just hours earlier, but despite that the development pace was high, and some 
implementations had already patched their code. Job said that the time for 
changing the code point was right, because the only prefixes using it were the 
beacon prefixes. Leaving it to later would have made it harder to change the 
code point. Alexander asked if Job would update his slides to show the status 
of implementations' use of code point 30 and  31.
Rudiger Volk said that while any serious vendor could patch their code for 
large BGP communities in 6 weeks, it will take much longer for it to be 
available at the edge because devices in production do not get updated so 
quickly. 

Peter Hessler (OpenBGPD) commented that he had updated OpenBGPD to use code 
point 32. He then noted that with the exception of the Cisco IOS-XR implementation 
(that one has to specifically request), all other implementations are currently 
in open source software, which will be easy to update. The place where large 
BGP communities will be most useful will on the route servers of Internet 
Exchanges, and since these all use open source software, it will be easy to 
deploy. Job remarked that the availability of open source BGP implementations 
has been a great help in developing large BGP communities. 

D. MANRS - Ben Maddison 

The presentation is available at: 
https://ripe73.ripe.net/presentations/123-201610-MANRS-BCOP.pdf <https://ripe73.ripe.net/presentations/123-201610-MANRS-BCOP.pdf> 

Joao said it would be nice to have a document that people can refer to, and 
asked Ben if he had any plans to work with the RIPE NCC to make this available 
in tutorials, for example. Ben said that there was still discussion going on 
about how to do this. He said that originally it was meant to become a RIPE 
document. But it's become too long and complex to be a RIPE document. So it may 
be better to have the principles of this in a RIPE document or something 
similar, and then refer from there to a more fluid documentation (such as a 
wiki) which can be updated more frequently, and make this available widely to 
the various registries and their communities. 

Joao asked the working group to review the document and provide feedback. 

E. "IXP Hackathon Report" - Robert Kisteleki 

The presentation is available at: 
https://ripe73.ripe.net/presentations/158-ripe73-routing-ixp-hackathon-report.pdf <https://ripe73.ripe.net/presentations/158-ripe73-routing-ixp-hackathon-report.pdf> 

No questions or comments 

F. AOB 

Nothing
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