[ripe-list] LIR and Member Agreements

​Great, a new month and two issues:

 * the state of the RIPE NCC' legal stack
 * a 'tone police' issue
Many of Dennis' points are valid.  Yes documents are written by ppl. PPL make mistakes. You should be able to call out mistakes. Using the Code of Conduct in this way, for me, feels totally inappropriate. Dennis' email was a balanced fact giving exercise, not a rant attacking individual persons. Using the CoC in this way certainly does not help solve issue #1, and might  even have a negative effect by people not willing to speak out on issues (issues always involve people and speaking out sometimes hurt feelings etc.)  due to CoC concerns. 

This is not the way.​-- 
IDGARA | Alex de Joode | alex at idgara.nl | +31651108221 


On Tue, 01-02-2022 10h 00min, "Barry O'Donovan (Open Solutions)" <barry at opensolutions.ie> wrote:
> 


Hi all,
> 

> 
I have to say, I find some of the reactions to Hans' email perplexing. 
It's almost as if one has never written anything that has been 
criticised is public. Of course 'the documents' don't have feelings. But
 the authors do, and I expect these authors are amongst our community 
and on the executive. 
> 

> 
Coming at this with such bullish language as the following is not the 
way to start a discussion on this:
> 

> 
> 
  
Most of the documents I have read are poorly written. This is probably
one of the worst. I will itemise below the details of what is wrong
with this document. But firstly I will point out some of the serious
mistakes.




I, like Hans (which has somehow been interpreting as an attempt to 
'suppress criticism'?), would suggest Denis come at this again with a 
more conciliatory stance.



Let me restate for the absolute avoidance of doubt: zero suppression; 
please restate and try again.



 - Barry





Gert Doering wrote on 31/01/2022 21:15:

> 
  
Hi,

On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 08:58:22PM +0100, Hans Petter Holen wrote:


  > 
I will not comment on your email right now, now but I will, however, point you to the RIPE Code of Conduct.

https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-766 <https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-766>

I read your characterisations of the document, as
"This is probably one of the worst»

as well as numerous others characterisations I will refrain from quoting,  though out the document as completely unnecessary.

They are not helping everyone to feel safe and included.

I find the use of the Code of Conduct as a tool to suppress criticism
*on documents* very much inappropriate.

This is not making *me* feel "safe and included".

Denis has explained well enough why he thinks that many of these documents 
are not in a good shape, singling out the one he thinks is the worst of 
these as a starting point to get the work started to improve them.

Gert Doering
        -- LIR representative


  

  
  



-- 


Kind regards,


Barry O'Donovan





Open Solutions - Internet Infrastructure Specialists





Web: http://www.opensolutions.ie/


Mob: +353 86 801 7669





Open Source Solutions Limited


52 Sandwith Street Lower


Dublin, D02 WR26, 
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