[ripe-list] [diversity] Updated Draft RIPE Code of Conduct Published for Community Review

Hi,

TL;DR I am okay with it as is but it could certainly be better in some places.
And my stance may change depending on if it gets changed by feedback
from others.

I agree with much of what has been brought up by Benno, Sasha, and others.

But I would really like to emphasize that the part about that the CoC
should always be applied and the PC (or anyone else including the RIPE
Chair) should not have a say in if it should be applied or not.

-Cynthia

On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 2:06 PM Benno Overeinder <benno at nlnetlabs.nl> wrote:
>
> Dear Leo and RIPE Code of Conduct TF,
>
> Thank you for writing the RIPE Code of Conduct draft.  We think it is
> concise and very clear.  We have some suggestions for textual changes
> for the TF's consideration.
>
> We understand that "wordsmithing" can be a pitfall for progressing a
> document, so please consider our email as a sign of support for the
> document and the suggestions as improvements.  Two points we mention
> have already been addressed by Gergana and Sasha, see the comments below.
>
>
> Section Introduction:
>
> Suggestion: “diversity of views” --> “diversity in views and people”
> to appreciate the diversity in attendees.
>
>
> Section Rationale:
>
> “To help everyone feel safe and included” --> “To make everyone feel
> safe and included”
> This may look subtle, but “help” suggests that people have some issue or
> problem they need to be assisted with, and makes it sound to me like the
> problem is with them.  Changing this to “make” shifts the burden to the
> community rather than the individual.
>
>
> “...a CoC sets clear expectations in terms of how people should behave.”
> --> could be more active, e.g.: “...a CoC makes clear how we expect
> people to conduct themselves.” or “...a CoC makes clear how we expect
> people to behave.”
>
>
> Section Scope:
>
> “Unofficial social events organised by RIPE Meeting attendees or their
> employers within the meeting venue” --> the “within the meeting venue”
> seems legalese to us in the sense that it could be said to be within the
> responsibility and bailiwick of RIPE.
> Given that a CoC is not a legal document, we would say something that is
> wider, e.g. “Unofficial social events organised by RIPE Meeting
> attendees or their employers within the context and spirit of the
> meeting” -- many side events are not in the meeting venue, but they
> clearly would not have happened had there not been a RIPE meeting.
>
> As already mentioned by Gergana in a previous email, why does the PC
> have the final say in whether the CoC is applied?  The CoC should be
> carried by the community and should always apply, not ifs, no buts.
>
> “This CoC does not apply to events or interactions that are managed by
> other organisations or communities.” --> legalese, not needed, this is
> self evident, because the inclusive scope of the CoC is clearly defined
> at the start.  Legalese does not belong in a CoC, it is not a contract.
>
>
> Section People and Organisations Bound and Protected by the Code:
>
> Making a list of people the CoC applies to is risky, since such a list
> can never be complete.  Why have a list at all?  Make it simpler: “This
> CoC equally applies to participants in the RIPE community, officers of
> the RIPE community and RIPE NCC staff members.”
>
>
> Section CoC and National Law:
>
> “The CoC Team or RIPE NCC staff may relay the report or make their own
> if necessary.” --> the last part “or make their own if necessary”, no
> matter how well-intended, incurs the risk of a serious breach of trust.
> This has also been argued by Sasha in an earlier email, and we fully
> endorse Sasha's wording in this regard.
>
> We realise this is a point that may lead to a lot of discussion, we
> would strongly advocate that anyone who acts in a role of trust w.r.t.
> this CoC be properly and regularly trained to deal with this kind of
> situation.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Roland van Rijswijk-Deij
> Benno Overeinder
>
>
> On 18/03/2021 18:21, Leo Vegoda wrote:
> > Dear RIPE community,
> >
> > There has been relatively little feedback on ths draft Code of Conduct
> > so far. We would be grateful if you could share any comments on the
> > RIPE Discussion
> > List by Friday, 2 April 2021. We welcome suggested changes, but if you
> > don’t see problems with the draft then statements of support are also
> > helpful. The RIPE Chair Team will evaluate your comments and determine
> > whether there is consensus on this draft or additional work is needed.
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Leo Vegoda
> > On behalf of the RIPE Code of Conduct TF
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 5:02 AM Leo Vegoda <leo at vegoda.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear RIPE community,
> >>
> >> An updated draft RIPE Code of Conduct (CoC) is now published for your
> >> review. As this is intended to cover all participation within RIPE, it
> >> applies to interactions over the Internet, mailing lists, as well as
> >> in-person at RIPE Meetings.
> >>
> >> You can find the document here:
> >>
> >> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-documents/other-documents/ripe-code-of-conduct/
> >>
> >> This draft keeps most of the text in v3.0[1], which was developed by
> >> the RIPE Diversity TF. It also draws from CoCs that are in use in
> >> other communities, including the Python CoC[2]. The biggest change is
> >> that the updated draft covers scope and behaviour only. It doesn’t
> >> touch on process or the CoC Team – these aspects will be addressed in
> >> two separate documents that are still to come.
> >>
> >> Please review the draft and share any comments on the RIPE Discussion
> >> List by Friday, 2 April 2021. We welcome suggested changes, but if you
> >> don’t see problems with the draft then statements of support are also
> >> helpful. The RIPE Chair Team will evaluate your comments and determine
> >> whether there is consensus on this draft or additional work is needed.
> >>
> >> While we would prefer comments to be shared on the RIPE Discussion
> >> List, we recognise that some people might have feedback that they
> >> would like to share in private. If you want to provide feedback in
> >> private you can contact members of the CoC TF or the RIPE Chair Team
> >> directly.
> >>
> >> Some key changes in this version:
> >>
> >> - The goal of “a neutral, transparent and open framework for report
> >> handling” has been removed and will be covered in the upcoming
> >> document that describes process.
> >> - The scope is defined as “all participation in RIPE.”
> >> - Groups and events with separate governance from RIPE may adopt this
> >> CoC but will need to manage their own implementation.
> >> - A new section covers how the CoC relates to national law.
> >> - A new section lists desired behaviours along with an updated list of
> >> unacceptable behaviours. - Both lists are arranged alphabetically, to
> >> avoid suggesting a hierarchy.
> >>
> >> We look forward to reading your thoughts on the current draft.
> >>
> >> Kind regards,
> >>
> >> Leo Vegoda
> >> On behalf of the RIPE Code of Conduct TF
> >>
> >> [1] RIPE Meeting Code of Conduct 3.0 - Draft
> >> https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/ripe-meetings/ripe-meeting-code-of-conduct-3-0-draft
> >> [2] Python Community Code of Conduct https://www.python.org/psf/conduct/
> >
>
> --
> Benno J. Overeinder
> NLnet Labs
> https://www.nlnetlabs.nl/
>
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