From nick at ripe.net Fri Oct 7 14:55:36 2016 From: nick at ripe.net (Nick Hyrka) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2016 14:55:36 +0200 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] Fwd: [ripe-list] Mailing list for discussion of RIPE Chair selection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, To help stimulate discussion on the subject, I am forwarding Hans Petter's mail to this list. Regards, Nick Hyrka Communications Manager RIPE NCC -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [ripe-list] Mailing list for discussion of RIPE Chair selection Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2016 22:58:50 +0400 From: Hans Petter Holen Reply-To: hph at oslo.net To: ripe-list at ripe.net Dear colleagues, When Rob Blokzijl stepped down as RIPE Chair, he asked that I put the wheels in motion to establish a selection procedure for future RIPE Chairs. At the last meeting I presented a proposal for how this could happen to start the discussion. https://labs.ripe.net/Members/hans_petter_holen/draft-ripe-chair-election-procedure The RIPE Chair represents you, the RIPE community. This community has been, and always will be, driven bottom up and by consensus. Your ideas and input form the foundation of what this selection procedure will look like. Key questions for a procedure are: * Who can be selected as RIPE Chair * Who will select the RIPE Chair * How will the selection happen? Should we have an election? Decided by a show of hands at a RIPE Meeting? Evoting? A selection panel? A vetting process by the RIPE Working Group Chairs? Should there be a RIPE Vice Chair? Your involvement and consensus on the selection procedure is crucial. We've established a dedicated mailing list for this discussion: ripe-chair-discuss at ripe.net To subscribe to the list, please visit https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-chair-discuss/ -- Sincerely, Hans Petter Holen RIPE Chair From shane at time-travellers.org Tue Oct 11 11:10:04 2016 From: shane at time-travellers.org (Shane Kerr) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 11:10:04 +0200 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair Job description Message-ID: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> All, Is there a document which actually documents what the RIPE Chair actually is? Sorry if I missed it, I don't think this exists. Perhaps such a document would be a good starting point for the discussion? We have a nice web page talking about *who* the chair is: https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/ripe-chair We also have a RIPE Document which describes what the job of a RIPE working group chairs, RIPE 542: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-542 Somewhat related, we also have a document describing the RIPE Programme Committee, RIPE 600: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-600 Note that writing down what the RIPE Chair is does not need to be super detailed, or restrictive. Hopefully it can be done in a page or two of text. Cheers, -- Shane -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 163 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From koalafil at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 11:32:12 2016 From: koalafil at gmail.com (Filiz Yilmaz) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 11:32:12 +0200 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair Job description In-Reply-To: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> Message-ID: Hello, I tend to agree with Shane's point of somewhat defining the scope of RIPE Chair responsibilities, so what is expected of this position in its broad terms, as well as any selection process for the position. Having said that, I would not use "Job description" in any document eventually describing these, because that sounds requiring a level of detail which I believe we do not need to prescribe to this position. There will always be things this position can find itself to be involved as our Community and industry evolves. So I would leave it to RIPE Chair Responsibilities or Scope of RIPE Chair, or something along those lines. Hans Peter Holen's initial mail (pasted below in full) to the ripe-list suggested some questions for an election procedure, starting with "Who can be selected as RIPE Chair". Who heavily will depend on the requirements of the position and whether or not a particular candidate meets them. So I suggest we add the requirements of the position to the key questions in this discussion so we can document it all at once, when the discussion reaches closure. So adding this to HPH's points, we would have the key questions for a procedure as: * What are the requirements and responsibilities of the RIPE Chair position * Who can be selected as RIPE Chair * Who will select the RIPE Chair * How will the selection happen? Finally, thanks HPH! This is an important token of our system and community process. Open and transparent discussion and eventual documentation for reference relating to this important position is very much needed in my opinion. Cheers Filiz Yilmaz ---- Hans Petter Holen via ripe.net Oct 4 (7 days ago) to ripe-list Dear colleagues, When Rob Blokzijl stepped down as RIPE Chair, he asked that I put the wheels in motion to establish a selection procedure for future RIPE Chairs. At the last meeting I presented a proposal for how this could happen to start the discussion. https://labs.ripe.net/Members/hans_petter_holen/draft-ripe-chair-election-procedure The RIPE Chair represents you, the RIPE community. This community has been, and always will be, driven bottom up and by consensus. Your ideas and input form the foundation of what this selection procedure will look like. Key questions for a procedure are: * Who can be selected as RIPE Chair * Who will select the RIPE Chair * How will the selection happen? Should we have an election? Decided by a show of hands at a RIPE Meeting? Evoting? A selection panel? A vetting process by the RIPE Working Group Chairs? Should there be a RIPE Vice Chair? Your involvement and consensus on the selection procedure is crucial. We've established a dedicated mailing list for this discussion: ripe-chair-discuss at ripe.net To subscribe to the list, please visit https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-chair-discuss/ --------------- On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Shane Kerr wrote: > All, > > Is there a document which actually documents what the RIPE Chair > actually is? Sorry if I missed it, I don't think this exists. Perhaps > such a document would be a good starting point for the discussion? > > We have a nice web page talking about *who* the chair is: > > https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/ripe-chair > > We also have a RIPE Document which describes what the job of a RIPE > working group chairs, RIPE 542: > > https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-542 > > Somewhat related, we also have a document describing the RIPE Programme > Committee, RIPE 600: > > https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-600 > > Note that writing down what the RIPE Chair is does not need to be super > detailed, or restrictive. Hopefully it can be done in a page or two of > text. > > Cheers, > > -- > Shane From jim at rfc1035.com Tue Oct 11 11:55:26 2016 From: jim at rfc1035.com (Jim Reid) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 10:55:26 +0100 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair Job description In-Reply-To: References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> Message-ID: <55F9A5B7-F9EC-4C1E-AC19-509D334A7BFD@rfc1035.com> > On 11 Oct 2016, at 10:32, Filiz Yilmaz wrote: > > I tend to agree with Shane's point of somewhat defining the scope of > RIPE Chair responsibilities, so what is expected of this position in > its broad terms, as well as any selection process for the position. > > Having said that, I would not use "Job description" in any document > eventually describing these, because that sounds requiring a level of > detail which I believe we do not need to prescribe to this position. > There will always be things this position can find itself to be > involved as our Community and industry evolves. So I would leave it to > RIPE Chair Responsibilities or Scope of RIPE Chair, or something along > those lines. +1 I would be wary of ?defining the scope? though. That could be unduly restrictive and inflexible. A scoping exercise will also encourage far too much rat-holing and shed-painting, something which we?re overly fond of doing. [That?s probably going to happen regardless. Sigh.] An outline of the general responsibilities of the role seems to be the thing to do here. From nigel at titley.com Tue Oct 11 12:24:10 2016 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 11:24:10 +0100 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair Job description In-Reply-To: <55F9A5B7-F9EC-4C1E-AC19-509D334A7BFD@rfc1035.com> References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> <55F9A5B7-F9EC-4C1E-AC19-509D334A7BFD@rfc1035.com> Message-ID: <2f4e99e5-003b-7a7b-0fca-1410e5938223@titley.com> On 11/10/16 10:55, Jim Reid wrote: > I would be wary of ?defining the scope? though. That could be unduly restrictive and inflexible. A scoping exercise will also encourage far too much rat-holing and shed-painting, something which we?re overly fond of doing. [That?s probably going to happen regardless. Sigh.] An outline of the general responsibilities of the role seems to be the thing to do here. My primary definition of the job role would merely be the ability to stand up at the back of a working group discussion and shout "Bullshit" and get the working group back on track. Anything tighter than that and we'll rapidly be debating exactly which shade of violet we should be painting the bike-sheds. Nigel From koalafil at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 12:46:38 2016 From: koalafil at gmail.com (Filiz Yilmaz) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 12:46:38 +0200 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair Job description In-Reply-To: <2f4e99e5-003b-7a7b-0fca-1410e5938223@titley.com> References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> <55F9A5B7-F9EC-4C1E-AC19-509D334A7BFD@rfc1035.com> <2f4e99e5-003b-7a7b-0fca-1410e5938223@titley.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 12:24 PM, Nigel Titley wrote: > > > On 11/10/16 10:55, Jim Reid wrote: > >> I would be wary of ?defining the scope? though. That could be unduly restrictive and inflexible. A scoping exercise will also encourage far too much rat-holing and shed-painting, something which we?re overly fond of doing. [That?s probably going to happen regardless. Sigh.] An outline of the general responsibilities of the role seems to be the thing to do here. > > My primary definition of the job role would merely be the ability to > stand up at the back of a working group discussion and shout "Bullshit" > and get the working group back on track. Sure but these are soft skills :). And I bet we, as a very capable community, can find a way of documenting such soft skills in some acceptable wording (preferably not identical to the above :) so that it can be understood by an outsider or a newcomer with ease, avoiding the thought that this position is given to some special people for some unknown special powers, but to guide and watch the best for the community. Some could be: - Capable of initial mediation and identification of common grounds between conflicting ideas - Capable of driving ongoing discussions to conclusions - Articulate, knowledgable of RIPE matters, etc. etc.... But I was not actually talking about the softs skills: we can still outline the actual responsibilities so we all know what a RIPE Chair actually does and so we can elect the right person for the job. Some I know and I agree to be in the merit of this position are: - Dedicating time for all RIPE matters, to travel to the RIPE meetings and to engage with all parts of RIPE region - Facilitating decision making on formation of new RIPE WGs and format of RIPE meetings. - Representing RIPE community in other occasions where necessary I do not think these are too tight. It just expresses what I expect from our leader in very broad terms as a community member. We can see if we can agree on them but I think it is worth a try as we are discussing an election process. Filiz Anything tighter than that and > we'll rapidly be debating exactly which shade of violet we should be > painting the bike-sheds. > > Nigel > From mir at ripe.net Tue Oct 11 17:18:18 2016 From: mir at ripe.net (Mirjam Kuehne) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2016 17:18:18 +0200 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair Job description In-Reply-To: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi all, Some time ago we drafted a function description for a RIPE Chair. Hans Petter now asked me to pass it on to the list for further discussion. Please see the pdf attached. It is also posted here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/draft-ripe-chair-function-descript ion Kind regards, Mirjam Kuehne RIPE NCC On 11/10/16 11:10, Shane Kerr wrote: > All, > > Is there a document which actually documents what the RIPE Chair > actually is? Sorry if I missed it, I don't think this exists. > Perhaps such a document would be a good starting point for the > discussion? > > We have a nice web page talking about *who* the chair is: > > https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/ripe-chair > > We also have a RIPE Document which describes what the job of a > RIPE working group chairs, RIPE 542: > > https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-542 > > Somewhat related, we also have a document describing the RIPE > Programme Committee, RIPE 600: > > https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-600 > > Note that writing down what the RIPE Chair is does not need to be > super detailed, or restrictive. Hopefully it can be done in a page > or two of text. > > Cheers, > > -- Shane > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJX/QK6AAoJEPXqNN7m+XRf75EH/2ylnfKpoGc3tk0scRSV2ZgG OYBX5dAiD0eYvWV9Clzj5RSLbL91ptgDOgUBIyGfY1bBjc95qRTyPmK3nD2RStuw Mqc7t1I7n3IOldHxJM90NfaUu/YQSuqZshtiBkd9v0qa7ym4YzDKx2NlbreiF8A3 Sdc8Zbfo+H5qS2Ryh29SUcbjnrTwlmWe6tx7xXGbZauEL3XOxH8JQUHHU4HarTe9 k8RzeTrq6wt4BWvgIyXhMzlPY1vAJBvWQ7TXCS3rLRwFT6wYoKCGhJHD2JYjq47b FBbRUSuN+uGVLbu6dWNmLl2moPj+dLzRhXy89E1cbZalqeaw769vP32nkN8ZGWE= =laGc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DRAFT- RIPE Chair Function Description.pdf Type: application/x-unkown Size: 43679 bytes Desc: not available URL: From koalafil at gmail.com Fri Oct 21 10:04:46 2016 From: koalafil at gmail.com (Filiz Yilmaz) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 10:04:46 +0200 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair Job description In-Reply-To: References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> Message-ID: Thanks Mirjam. This helps. Glad to hear there was indeed a draft document on this. This draft addresses my comments about the responsibilities and the scope of this position. It also relates to the current "process" discussion with its content as: "Term duration: The duration of this role is five years after which the exiting Chair may choose to place him/herself up for reelection in the pool of qualifying candidates. " I have no objections to the 5 years term. But we may need to consider the purpose of the "may" in this sentence, "the exiting Chair may choose to place him/herself up for reelection...", as we are discussing a process. So with this discussion we may have the opportunity to both come up with a process for an election and move this document from a Draft state to a proper RIPE Document status. Where will this discussion take place during the upcoming meeting next week? Thank you Filiz On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Mirjam Kuehne wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > Hi all, > > Some time ago we drafted a function description for a RIPE Chair. Hans > Petter now asked me to pass it on to the list for further discussion. > Please see the pdf attached. It is also posted here: > > https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/draft-ripe-chair-function-descript > ion > > Kind regards, > Mirjam Kuehne > RIPE NCC > > > On 11/10/16 11:10, Shane Kerr wrote: >> All, >> >> Is there a document which actually documents what the RIPE Chair >> actually is? Sorry if I missed it, I don't think this exists. >> Perhaps such a document would be a good starting point for the >> discussion? >> >> We have a nice web page talking about *who* the chair is: >> >> https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/ripe-chair >> >> We also have a RIPE Document which describes what the job of a >> RIPE working group chairs, RIPE 542: >> >> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-542 >> >> Somewhat related, we also have a document describing the RIPE >> Programme Committee, RIPE 600: >> >> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-600 >> >> Note that writing down what the RIPE Chair is does not need to be >> super detailed, or restrictive. Hopefully it can be done in a page >> or two of text. >> >> Cheers, >> >> -- Shane >> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org > > iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJX/QK6AAoJEPXqNN7m+XRf75EH/2ylnfKpoGc3tk0scRSV2ZgG > OYBX5dAiD0eYvWV9Clzj5RSLbL91ptgDOgUBIyGfY1bBjc95qRTyPmK3nD2RStuw > Mqc7t1I7n3IOldHxJM90NfaUu/YQSuqZshtiBkd9v0qa7ym4YzDKx2NlbreiF8A3 > Sdc8Zbfo+H5qS2Ryh29SUcbjnrTwlmWe6tx7xXGbZauEL3XOxH8JQUHHU4HarTe9 > k8RzeTrq6wt4BWvgIyXhMzlPY1vAJBvWQ7TXCS3rLRwFT6wYoKCGhJHD2JYjq47b > FBbRUSuN+uGVLbu6dWNmLl2moPj+dLzRhXy89E1cbZalqeaw769vP32nkN8ZGWE= > =laGc > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jim at rfc1035.com Fri Oct 21 12:29:19 2016 From: jim at rfc1035.com (Jim Reid) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 11:29:19 +0100 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair appointment procedure In-Reply-To: References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> Message-ID: <32BFBEFE-623A-493F-889B-47C7D1DECB32@rfc1035.com> > On 21 Oct 2016, at 09:04, Filiz Yilmaz wrote: > > So with this discussion we may have the opportunity to both come up > with a process for an election and move this document from a Draft > state to a proper RIPE Document status. s/election/selection/ Part of this discussion has to include deciding what process is used for appointing the RIPE Chair. We shouldn't rule out (or rule in) particular options at this stage. We should examine those options and aim to reach agreement on which one works best. Personally, I strongly recommend we stick by the open, consensus-driven approach we use for selecting WG chairs and making RIPE policy. Votes give me the heebie-jeebies when literally anyone is able to vote and do so as many times as they want. We must be very careful that the selection mechanism for RIPE Chair is not vulnerable to manipulation, say by an undesirable wannabe and their newly created 100,000 Facebook friends. At the same time, the barriers to entry for participating in that appointment decision should be no higher than they are for participation in any WG: ie an email address and some ability to communicate in English. From koalafil at gmail.com Fri Oct 21 12:40:26 2016 From: koalafil at gmail.com (Filiz Yilmaz) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 12:40:26 +0200 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair appointment procedure In-Reply-To: <32BFBEFE-623A-493F-889B-47C7D1DECB32@rfc1035.com> References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> <32BFBEFE-623A-493F-889B-47C7D1DECB32@rfc1035.com> Message-ID: Thanks Jim for explaining the difference between election and selection. The missing "s" in my previous mail was a mere typo, not an intentional ruling out of any processes! Happens with non-native english speakers at times which may be the majority of our community. Hence the need for open, transparent and easy to find documents for any process to be defined, including the leader *selections* in our fora. Filiz On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Jim Reid wrote: > >> On 21 Oct 2016, at 09:04, Filiz Yilmaz wrote: >> >> So with this discussion we may have the opportunity to both come up >> with a process for an election and move this document from a Draft >> state to a proper RIPE Document status. > > s/election/selection/ > > Part of this discussion has to include deciding what process is used for appointing the RIPE Chair. We shouldn't rule out (or rule in) particular options at this stage. We should examine those options and aim to reach agreement on which one works best. > > Personally, I strongly recommend we stick by the open, consensus-driven approach we use for selecting WG chairs and making RIPE policy. Votes give me the heebie-jeebies when literally anyone is able to vote and do so as many times as they want. > > We must be very careful that the selection mechanism for RIPE Chair is not vulnerable to manipulation, say by an undesirable wannabe and their newly created 100,000 Facebook friends. At the same time, the barriers to entry for participating in that appointment decision should be no higher than they are for participation in any WG: ie an email address and some ability to communicate in English. > > From shane at time-travellers.org Fri Oct 21 14:05:42 2016 From: shane at time-travellers.org (Shane Kerr) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 14:05:42 +0200 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] In-person discussion of RIPE Chair Selection (was: RIPE Chair Job description) In-Reply-To: References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> Message-ID: <20161021140542.0dd0e05c@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> Filiz & all, tl;dr I think we need an in-person discussion of the procedure. We need to have the discussion at RIPE 73, or defer using the procedure until we have had the discussion. More words: Your question about a discussion next week is important. Thanks for bringing it up. Looking at the post that kicked off this discussion: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/hans_petter_holen/draft-ripe-chair-election-procedure We see the proposal: * Use the process for electing RIPE Chair at RIPE 74 in May 2017 It seems like an in-person discussion of the RIPE chair selection process is worthwhile, and RIPE 73 is the last time to have such a discussion before RIPE 74. I'd be happy if we deferred selecting a RIPE Chair until RIPE 75; I don't think there is any hurry. Alternately, we need to get some time on the agenda next week to discuss it. It's as late as can possibly be, but if it is important to use this procedure for RIPE 74 then I think we must have a face-to-face discussion about it. Sorry if I missed time for this already on the agenda. I don't remember seeing anything, but my memory is definitely not perfect. Cheers, -- Shane At 2016-10-21 10:04:46 +0200 Filiz Yilmaz wrote: > Thanks Mirjam. This helps. Glad to hear there was indeed a draft > document on this. > > This draft addresses my comments about the responsibilities and the > scope of this position. > It also relates to the current "process" discussion with its content as: > > "Term duration: > > The duration of this role is five years after which the exiting Chair > may choose to place him/herself up for reelection in the pool of > qualifying candidates. > " > > I have no objections to the 5 years term. > But we may need to consider the purpose of the "may" in this sentence, > "the exiting Chair may choose to place him/herself up for > reelection...", as we are discussing a process. > > So with this discussion we may have the opportunity to both come up > with a process for an election and move this document from a Draft > state to a proper RIPE Document status. > > Where will this discussion take place during the upcoming meeting next week? > > > Thank you > Filiz > > > > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Mirjam Kuehne wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA512 > > > > Hi all, > > > > Some time ago we drafted a function description for a RIPE Chair. Hans > > Petter now asked me to pass it on to the list for further discussion. > > Please see the pdf attached. It is also posted here: > > > > https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/draft-ripe-chair-function-descript > > ion > > > > Kind regards, > > Mirjam Kuehne > > RIPE NCC > > > > > > On 11/10/16 11:10, Shane Kerr wrote: > >> All, > >> > >> Is there a document which actually documents what the RIPE Chair > >> actually is? Sorry if I missed it, I don't think this exists. > >> Perhaps such a document would be a good starting point for the > >> discussion? > >> > >> We have a nice web page talking about *who* the chair is: > >> > >> https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/ripe-chair > >> > >> We also have a RIPE Document which describes what the job of a > >> RIPE working group chairs, RIPE 542: > >> > >> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-542 > >> > >> Somewhat related, we also have a document describing the RIPE > >> Programme Committee, RIPE 600: > >> > >> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-600 > >> > >> Note that writing down what the RIPE Chair is does not need to be > >> super detailed, or restrictive. Hopefully it can be done in a page > >> or two of text. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> -- Shane > >> > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org > > > > iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJX/QK6AAoJEPXqNN7m+XRf75EH/2ylnfKpoGc3tk0scRSV2ZgG > > OYBX5dAiD0eYvWV9Clzj5RSLbL91ptgDOgUBIyGfY1bBjc95qRTyPmK3nD2RStuw > > Mqc7t1I7n3IOldHxJM90NfaUu/YQSuqZshtiBkd9v0qa7ym4YzDKx2NlbreiF8A3 > > Sdc8Zbfo+H5qS2Ryh29SUcbjnrTwlmWe6tx7xXGbZauEL3XOxH8JQUHHU4HarTe9 > > k8RzeTrq6wt4BWvgIyXhMzlPY1vAJBvWQ7TXCS3rLRwFT6wYoKCGhJHD2JYjq47b > > FBbRUSuN+uGVLbu6dWNmLl2moPj+dLzRhXy89E1cbZalqeaw769vP32nkN8ZGWE= > > =laGc > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 163 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jim at rfc1035.com Fri Oct 21 14:11:59 2016 From: jim at rfc1035.com (Jim Reid) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2016 13:11:59 +0100 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] In-person discussion of RIPE Chair Selection In-Reply-To: <20161021140542.0dd0e05c@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> <20161021140542.0dd0e05c@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> Message-ID: > On 21 Oct 2016, at 13:05, Shane Kerr wrote: > > I'd be happy if we deferred selecting a RIPE Chair until RIPE 75; I > don't think there is any hurry. Shane, I?d be happier if we didn?t set a timetable for this right now. There are a lot of things to consider and we shouldn?t rush those discussions to meet some self-imposed and abitrary deadline. Let?s take our time and get this right. Act in haste, repent at leisure and all that. Of course, all bets are off if Hans Petter wants to quit and wants to do that soon. From randy at psg.com Sat Oct 22 09:26:16 2016 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 16:26:16 +0900 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair appointment procedure In-Reply-To: <32BFBEFE-623A-493F-889B-47C7D1DECB32@rfc1035.com> References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> <32BFBEFE-623A-493F-889B-47C7D1DECB32@rfc1035.com> Message-ID: >> So with this discussion we may have the opportunity to both come up >> with a process for an election and move this document from a Draft >> state to a proper RIPE Document status. > > s/election/selection/ imagine what rob would say about all this randy From nick at foobar.org Sat Oct 22 16:34:44 2016 From: nick at foobar.org (Nick Hilliard) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 15:34:44 +0100 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair appointment procedure In-Reply-To: References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> <32BFBEFE-623A-493F-889B-47C7D1DECB32@rfc1035.com> Message-ID: <580B7904.4080004@foobar.org> Randy Bush wrote: >>> So with this discussion we may have the opportunity to both come up >>> with a process for an election and move this document from a Draft >>> state to a proper RIPE Document status. >> s/election/selection/ > > imagine what rob would say about all this I talked to him about it, actually. He volunteered that there was a need to formalise a mechanism to handle how to choose a ripe chair, and what the position would do, and so forth. He also said that he wanted a future ripe chair to handle this, which struck me as being a strange thing to say, but in retrospect perhaps not: it was an acknowledgement that this was not an easy thing to do, but that he had enough faith that the community would do the right thing. Regarding the words "election" and "selection", people get them mixed up and this is more to do with the fact that they sound similar than anything else. A typo happened and was corrected, so let's move on. Nick From jim at rfc1035.com Sat Oct 22 17:20:29 2016 From: jim at rfc1035.com (Jim Reid) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 16:20:29 +0100 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair appointment procedure In-Reply-To: <580B7904.4080004@foobar.org> References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> <32BFBEFE-623A-493F-889B-47C7D1DECB32@rfc1035.com> <580B7904.4080004@foobar.org> Message-ID: <9453F99F-7513-4702-BE4F-C1E92D7DC156@rfc1035.com> > On 22 Oct 2016, at 15:34, Nick Hilliard wrote: > >> imagine what rob would say about all this > > I talked to him about it, actually. He volunteered that there was a need > to formalise a mechanism to handle how to choose a ripe chair, and what > the position would do, and so forth. He also said that he wanted a > future ripe chair to handle this, which struck me as being a strange > thing to say, but in retrospect perhaps not: it was an acknowledgement > that this was not an easy thing to do, but that he had enough faith that > the community would do the right thing. Rob pretty much said the same thing at the last few meetings of the WG chairs he attended. Some discussions about this topic got under way once the bickering over procedures for WG chair appointments began to subside. I think Rob realised that he didn?t have enough time left (or the energy) to wait for the inevitable shed-painting and rat-holing on RIPE Chair selection to end. So he wisely left his successor to deal with this hairball. BTW this was also why Rob appointed Hans Petter. He wanted a quick and effective solution. He didn?t want the final months of his time as RIPE Chair to be spent on debating a succession plan. Rob very probably knew he wouldn?t live long enough for that to reach a conclusion. > Regarding the words "election" and "selection", people get them mixed up > and this is more to do with the fact that they sound similar than > anything else. A typo happened and was corrected, so let's move on. Indeed. From gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com Sat Oct 22 19:41:20 2016 From: gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com (Gordon Lennox) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 19:41:20 +0200 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] RIPE Chair appointment procedure In-Reply-To: <9453F99F-7513-4702-BE4F-C1E92D7DC156@rfc1035.com> References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> <32BFBEFE-623A-493F-889B-47C7D1DECB32@rfc1035.com> <580B7904.4080004@foobar.org> <9453F99F-7513-4702-BE4F-C1E92D7DC156@rfc1035.com> Message-ID: <50587083-261D-479E-90DD-0AC2C78FFCE9@gmail.com> I seem to remember a point being made when a person was being identified for a similar role in another community. I think the point is pertinent here: We already know the person who will be the RIPE Chair. By that I mean that we are not in a widespread head-hunting exercise. We are not going out to recruit somebody. I think we are more trying to identify somebody who already participates and has being doing so for a while. We are looking for somebody who is ready and able to take on the role and who will start with the necessary goodwill from the community. When Rob indicated Has-Petter nobody in the room asked, ?Who?? And I think most people also knew that he would do a good job. Having recently seen some quite sophisticated processes in the political field resulting in strange outcomes I think we can do better. I think we know enough to keep it simple and aim for an appropriate outcome. Gordon From ripe-wgs.cs at schiefner.de Sun Oct 23 14:07:17 2016 From: ripe-wgs.cs at schiefner.de (Carsten Schiefner) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2016 14:07:17 +0200 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] In-person discussion of RIPE Chair Selection (was: RIPE Chair Job description) In-Reply-To: <20161021140542.0dd0e05c@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> References: <20161011111004.3dad7fde@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> <20161021140542.0dd0e05c@pallas.home.time-travellers.org> Message-ID: <82e8cb81-1214-1aa6-e503-ed4670d03028@schiefner.de> All - I take side with Shane and Jim here: I cannot see any need to rush this trough. It shall get the time it needs - as I am sure no one intends to stretch this over the next decade. And my reading of Shane's proposal for aiming at RIPE 75 rather than 74 was that it's purely inidicative but not mandatory. Best, -C. On 21.10.2016 14:05, Shane Kerr wrote: > Filiz & all, > > tl;dr I think we need an in-person discussion of the procedure. We need > to have the discussion at RIPE 73, or defer using the procedure > until we have had the discussion. > > More words: > > [...] > > Cheers, > > -- > Shane From lynnblok at gmail.com Thu Oct 27 08:21:28 2016 From: lynnblok at gmail.com (Lynn Blokzijl) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 08:21:28 +0200 Subject: [ripe-chair-discuss] (no subject) Message-ID: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: