[ncc-services-wg] Get a warrant or direct request ?

First of all, I want to say that I like the way discussions take place
within this group. We all have an opinion based on our experience and
day to day job which really help adressing the issue thru its various ways.

regarding warrant, that I hear a lot, you have to bear in mind that
there is nothing such an international warrant. We are working within UE
in order to somehow get one, meaning a way for LEA to adress a request
to a company or someone living in another european country than the one
the investigator is working. Question remains about how to deal with a
no answer.
Anyway, today, the only way for an investigator to get answers to its
question is by asking his judge to send a Mutual Legal Assistance
Request or European Investigative Order to his fellow magistrate in the
other country so the police forces will open a case just to get the
information back. It may take some months til the request is sent and
answered. unfortunatly, it doesn't fit with the need of speed while
working cybercrime such as CP where data is moved one month to another.

So one question might also be : would you agree answering an official
request coming directly from a foreign LEA ?
 
It will help for sure if the answer is yes but it won't change the issue
that is global cartography of a network as we speak.

Who should I turn to in order to be assured that John Doe, renting this
server I am asking you about, isn't renting another server providing
exactly the same thing in another country? You might answer RIPE NCC
/(that might have to hire people to deal with more legal request, and
maybe raise the contract fees, who knows)/. Sure but we are now facing
registrants that are not providing the data at all to the registries.

I know my writing is going way beyond sara's question (sorry about that)
but I'm just trying to explain what our issues are. We just need help
from all stakeholders in order to find the best and proper way to work.

stephane


Pour une administration exemplaire, préservons l'environnement.
N'imprimons que si nécessaire.

-------- Message original --------
*Sujet: *[INTERNET] Re: [ncc-services-wg] legal adress
*De : *netravnen+lists at gmail.com
*Pour : *stephane.robinot at interieur.gouv.fr, ncc-services-wg at ripe.net
*Date : *10/10/2018 12:20
> On 10/10/2018 11:23 AM, ROBINOT Stephane DCPJ SDLC wrote:
>> But here is my question : If, to you, the legal address is a personal
>> data, are you also thinking the same way about the telephone number
>> which is so far kept for registrar abuse contact phone ?
> If phone number is registered in company name/RegID. Definitely not.
>
>> Speaking about sole trader, if I understand well your point and go
>> beyond, the name by itself might also be considered as a personal data
>> as it is also a way to identify the person.
> Hard to argue for or against.
>
> In its core essence. I will say Yes.
>
>> To me, legal address is just a way to be assured that the official
>> request are sent to the correct place
> Idea: Publish link to local business registry instead.
>
> Alternative: as Hessler wrote. 'get a warrant'
>
> Duplicate data results: If data is re-entered into the RIPE NCC
> Database. When they are often accessible from local business registry.
> It does not _really_ make sense.
> As previously mentioned. Down-going rate in data quality is definitely
> unavoidable over time.

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