[ncc-services-wg] Re: [dns-wg] Re: dnsmon / .org
Jim Reid jim at rfc1035.com
Wed Sep 10 23:52:34 CEST 2003
>>>>> "Daniel" == Daniel Karrenberg <daniel.karrenberg at ripe.net> writes: Daniel> Who is selling DNSSEC courses? I was thinking this might have been a way to keep me in very fine, rare malt whisky. :-) I have an Advanced DNS Admin course that could be used as the basis of a DNSSEC training course. However, there's not much point in trying to develop and sell such a course -- far less try to make a living from that -- when RIPE NCC is offering one "for free" that would attract most, if not all, potential customers. That's hardly fair or neutral, eh? >> I fear that your plans for DNS monitoring will similarly >> distort the market. Firstly, potential customers -- TLDs, >> regulators, etc -- will expect to get this type of service for >> free instead of paying for it as they really should. Secondly, >> it will prevent commercial operators, some of whom could well >> be NCC members, from providing this kind of service. Who can >> compete with free? Daniel> Yes, but is there a market? And can this be done Daniel> independently and neutrally for a fee? These questions can't be answered if NCC does this for free and therefore strangles at birth any attempts by someone else to offer these services and/or create a market for them. Daniel> Again we needed this for k.root-servers.net operations. Fine. So monitor K and ns.ripe.net and ns.eu.net: the servers directly under the NCC's responsibility. But stop there. There's a huge leap going from there to monitoring every TLD and root server on the planet "for free" and I just don't see the justification for that quite frankly. Monitor these other servers by all means. Provided the people running those servers pay at least the full costs of providing that service to them. This would of course require much more transparency in identifying the costs and overheads of providing these additional, non-core services. Daniel> The RIPE NCC is another kettle of fish than a commercial Daniel> company. You need stability and neutrality and that has Daniel> its price! Indeed. But where is the neutrality if NCC is raising the barriers to entry by offering additional, non-core services "for free" that are cross-subsidised from its core, monopoly services? I've given a couple of examples where NCC's actions/policies have far from neutral market consequences. Simply by their existence, these non-core services NCC offers have eliminated competition. Or prevented commercial players entering the market. What's worse, those additional services might have been provided by the NCC membership if they'd been given the chance. And that extra revenue could have helped them pay for NCC's recently increased fees. :-) I would also like to see the NCC's projects (such as DISI) subject to regular external review to ensure they are seen to be on track and meeting their objectives, deliverables, timelines and budgets. Perhaps this already happens and I as a non-member just don't know about that? Daniel> What if you lean it until it falls over at the Daniel> most inconveient time? This is less likely to happen if NCC sticks to its core job -- an RIR -- and makes sure it has enough cash to carry out that role. The further NCC moves from its absolutely critical RIR responsibility, the more likely that core function will be at risk. And the more likely the EU's anti-competition people will come knocking at the door.... Daniel> Talking about fairness: The RIPE NCC does not have stock Daniel> options either. Yes I have a relatively secure job, but Daniel> that's because I think the RIPE NCC is important for the Daniel> Internet in Europe and I chose for it *in good times* when Daniel> there were *a lot* more interesting offers in terms of Daniel> remuneration. Daniel, please don't take my earlier comments personally. This discussion has nothing to do with our respective career choices or money. It's about more important things. :-) FYI, I don't have stock options either. [These die when you get downsized you know.] I don't even have a job. Let alone a relatively secure one. And as I look for new things to do in the DNS arena, there's this 800 pound NCC gorilla in my backyard which is almost literally eating my lunch. It's giving away "for free" the services I might want to provide and try to earn a living from. Where's the fairness you speak of? The only consolation I have is that since I'm not an NCC member, I'm not paying for that gorilla to eat my lunch.