[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2024
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Daniel Pearson
daniel at privatesystems.net
Thu Mar 9 14:48:40 CET 2023
Hi Mike, I'm curious why you feel that charge more / spend more should be the only option for vote? Why should we not vote that RIPE reduce its expenses instead? Cheers Daniel~ On 3/9/23 05:21, mail at mys.co.uk wrote: > Hello > > Tiered membership cost structures should be the only options put > forward for a vote as this is the only viable and sustainable way > forward. > > The current structure is rapidly pushing up costs for members with > XS/S allocations making it unsustainable and RIPE can not afford to > continue with the decreasing revenue this model achieves. > > Is is a no-brainer for LIRs with multiple accounts to amalgamate their > positions into one LIR account and that is not sustainable under the > current pricing structure. It seems reasonable to me that LIR > membership costs should be calculated pro-rata on the number of > resources held by each LIR, albeit with a base membership cost of say > €500 per LIR with a /22 or less. Each additional /22 should be costed > on the total amount of /22's within RIPE divided by the required > income budget set by RIPE for the following year. > > For the sake of LIRs with small or extra small resources, and also for > the sustainability of RIPE itself, RIPE can not in my view, even risk > the option of continuing with the current “Option 1” model. > > Best > Mike > > * > * > > > On 8 Mar 2023, at 21:46, Lukasz Jarosz <lukasz at jarosz.pl> wrote: > > Hi, > I also think, that before so sever fee increases are implemented, > budget should be reconsidered. I want to point out that according to > "RIPE NCC Activity Plan and Budget 2023” ( > https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-786/#4.%20Maintaining%20a%20Strong%20Organisation ) > *RIPE is spending as much money for these extracurricular activities > as for maintaining registry*. > Especially with some of our members suffering from war and other > natural disasters, RIPE shouldn’t be budgeting to increase > investments, but only for sustaining required services. > > Best regards, > Lukasz Jarosz > >> Wiadomość napisana przez Kaj Niemi <kajtzu at basen.net> w dniu >> 07.03.2023, o godz. 12:02: >> >> Hi, >> >> >> Thanks, the email and the excel made for some quite interesting >> reading. There are a few other reasonable options which were not >> listed on the slide deck from 2021 nor in your email. >> >> An obvious option would be to reduce budgeted RIPE NCC expenditure to >> the level of forecasted revenue. This is what most normal companies, >> without assured funding, must do. >> >> Another option would be to charge LIRs for the services they use. >> With this I do not mean IP addresses and ASNs that were mentioned in >> your model but for everything. Someone who is using only basic LIR >> services (IP/ASN assignments, reverse name services) would not have >> to pay for "value-added services" (VAS). >> >> With VAS I mean RIPE NCC's varied extracurricular activities such as >> outreach, education programs and software development that have >> expanded considerably over the years and have undoubtedly been of >> some value to some of its members. Still, many of the same >> roles/functions are also conducted by membership organizations, NOGs, >> and independent software developers. Imposition of the costs of such >> programs on members, who either don't benefit from or do not use >> them, equates the charging model functioning mostly as an ATM to >> finance the ambitions and initiatives of the RIPE NCC leadership and >> a small group of active advocates. >> >> Some of us would be happy with a Big Mac meal rather than the >> expensive all you can eat seafood buffet 😉 >> >> >> >> Kaj >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ncc-announce <ncc-announce-bounces at ripe.net> On Behalf Of Simon >> Jan Haytink >> Sent: Tuesday, March 7, 2023 11:35 >> To: ncc-announce at ripe.net >> Subject: [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme >> 2024 >> >> Dear RIPE NCC members, >> >> We would like to re-open the consultation we began with the >> membership in 2021 on the RIPE NCC Charging Scheme model, and we >> would like to carry out that consultation well in advance of the RIPE >> NCC General Meeting (GM) May 2023. >> >> In 2021, we presented on this topic at the GM, and we also surveyed >> our members and held an open house to get direct input on the >> charging scheme model that members would like to see implemented by >> the RIPE NCC. The outcome at that stage of the consultation was that >> there were strong cases made for both the current one-LIR, one-fee >> model and for a category-based model that would charge based on the >> number of resources held by a member. A strong case was also made to >> charge for all resources allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC, >> including ASNs, and to charge a fee for transfers. >> >> The Executive Board decided to suspend the consultation in light of >> the war in Ukraine, but we are eager to decide on a way forward on >> this matter together with the membership. >> >> One of the main reasons that we would like to advance the discussion >> on the charging model is that we expect many members with multiple >> LIR accounts who received resources in 2021 to merge these accounts >> in the coming year. This means that the income the RIPE NCC receives >> will be reduced by a significant amount and we will need to ensure >> that our charging model allows us to collect the revenue required to >> maintain our operations. We believe that a category-based model would >> be best suited to cover this consolidation risk. Continuing with the >> existing model would mean that an increase in fees for all >> members would be required. Our ultimate goal is to arrive at a >> charging scheme model that will be sustainable for many years to >> come, meeting the needs of the RIPE NCC’s members. >> >> To help with discussion and to provide something tangible for members >> to assess, we are putting forward two draft models for members to >> review. These models can be summarised as: >> >> Model 1: A “one-LIR, one-fee” model based on the current RIPE NCC >> Charging Scheme 2023 that also charges for independent resources, >> ASNs, transfers and changes in business structure such as Mergers & >> Acquisitions. >> >> Model 2: A category-based model that charges per member (not per LIR >> account) and is based on resources registered and that also charges >> for independent resources, ASNs, transfers and changes in business >> structure such as Mergers & Acquisitions. >> >> In order to allow members to form an opinion based on their own >> situation, we are providing an Excel sheet that will allow you >> to calculate the fees you would pay under each of the draft models. >> It is important to be aware that at this stage, the numbers assigned >> for each item are indicative and would be reviewed in light of the >> discussion with members. We plan to review these figures following >> consultation with the members, and giving input on those figures >> would greatly help to arrive at a good model. >> >> You can download the Excel sheet from: >> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations%2Fmember-calculator-charging-scheme-2024.xlsx&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=p27R1eIR06WMjapHci7lCcjUxNBvlnExmGvJr6XesOA%3D&reserved=0 >> >> We also plan to hold another Open House meeting on the Charging >> Scheme in March to further discuss the charging scheme models. The >> Executive Board will then take the input and decide on one or more >> charging schemes for the membership to vote on at the GM to be held >> on 24 May 2023. The outcome of that vote will determine the charging >> scheme model to be used in the coming years. >> >> I ask that you provide your input on this important consultation on >> the Membership Discussion mailing list (members-discuss at ripe.net) by >> 26 April. Input provided up to this date will be considered by the >> Board when formulating the charging schemes to be proposed for the >> GM. Input after this date is of course also welcome although it might >> not be reflected in the schemes put forward to the membership at the GM. >> >> The consultation will also be recorded and available from: >> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HYL%2BY4nhlDzN2A0gsahcPXVxVLgVs7tNynm6fm7sJh8%3D&reserved=0 >> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HYL%2BY4nhlDzN2A0gsahcPXVxVLgVs7tNynm6fm7sJh8%3D&reserved=0> >> >> I look forward to your input. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Simon Jan Haytink >> Finance Director >> RIPE NCC >> >> Summary >> >> 7 March: Start consultation with membership on RIPE NCC Charging >> Scheme model >> 21 March: Open House to discuss charging scheme with membership >> 24 March: Executive Board meeting to discuss input received so far >> 12 April: Publication of Draft RIPE NCC Charging Schemes 2024 >> 26 April: Publication of Final RIPE NCC Charging Schemes to be voted >> on by members >> 24 May: RIPE NCC General Meeting May 2023 >> >> References >> >> Open House and Survey Results >> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fopen-house%2Fripe-ncc-open-house-charging-scheme-principles&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PXkQQ03kVkFM6T8w0wVHyjqKJV6ckSsqg6cNpg24e5w%3D&reserved=0 >> >> Presentation at General Meeting >> https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fgm%2Fmeetings%2Fmay-2021%2Fdocumentation-and-archive%2Fripe-ncc-charging-scheme-discussion.pdf&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cba37c5f6a8244dc0053308db1ef066de%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638137790087678748%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=O9UYcJe53%2FlO08Qr4X%2FtcR2w0w6YopCcz448FcWGhdg%3D&reserved=0 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> members-discuss mailing list >> members-discuss at ripe.net >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >> Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/lukasz%40jarosz.pl > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/mail%40mys.co.uk > > > _______________________________________________ > members-discuss mailing list > members-discuss at ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > Unsubscribe:https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/options/members-discuss/daniel%40privatesystems.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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