[members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme

Thu Apr 13 16:18:15 CEST 2023

Yup, I was also surprised that the seemingly default allocation for v6
was considered a higher category!

Is it really worth it for the NCC to chase people for the difference
between a /32 and a /29? I was under the impression that the /29 was
reserved anyway each time a LIR got a v6 block.

On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 3:13 PM David Brůha <d.bruha at virtis.cz> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>
> I agree. We are actually renting a server for offsite backups in Canada and the provider charges 1 Euro per month for 1 additional IP address. No way anyone would return unused IPv4 addresses.
>
>
> But after seeing the new updated calculator we would definitely return part of our IPv6 allocation if the charging scheme category A should be chosen. The "free" enlargement from /32 to /29 suddenly costs 350 Euro per year.
>
>
> --
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> e-mail: d.bruha at virtis.cz
>
> Dne čtvrtek 30. března 2023 15:22:15 CEST, Kaj Niemi napsal(a):
>
> > It won’t. I believe most will either a) rent out, or b) sell their unused IP
>
> > addresses if it becomes a choice between having to pay for the privilege of
>
> > keeping vs converting them to either continuous (renting out) or onetime
>
> > (sale) revenue.
>
> >
>
> > LIRs who have an acute IPv4 address deficit will, realistically, need to
>
> > procure more addresses on the free market. That is, if they intend to grow
>
> > their business and not let it stagnate.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Kaj
>
> >
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > From: members-discuss <members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of José
>
> > Manuel Giner via members-discuss <members-discuss at ripe.net> Sent:
>
> > Wednesday, March 29, 2023 10:14:30 PM
>
> > To: members-discuss at ripe.net <members-discuss at ripe.net>
>
> > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [ncc-announce] [GM] Consultation on RIPE NCC
>
> > Charging Scheme
>
> >
>
> > Hello,
>
> >
>
> > I think it is very necessary to address the problem of LIRs that need
>
> > IPs in relation to LIRs that have +80% of their IPs unused.
>
> >
>
> > How to fix? maybe a pay per individual IP model?
>
> >
>
> > For example: 0.25 €/year per IP.
>
> >
>
> > I think this will make those who have unused IPs give them back and
>
> > reduce speculation, which I think are the two big problems.
>
> >
>
> > Thanks!
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > José Manuel Giner
>
> > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fginernet.c
>
> > om%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f08db311a3cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc9
>
> > 23b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638157760994467552%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo
>
> > iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&
>
> > sdata=XwY9HPEkXKXBM%2BpxqAxU5OSX6NNV%2FvP46yUJSfQIC0M%3D&reserved=0
>
> > On 17/03/2023 10:24, Simon-Jan Haytink wrote:
>
> > > Dear all,
>
> > >
>
> > > First off, I apologise for the length of this email, but I hope to cover
>
> > > a number of points brought up in the consultation so far.
>
> > >
>
> > > I want to thank you again for your input so far on the models. We are
>
> > > busy looking at all the feedback. We have also seen over 100 members
>
> > > sign up for the Open House next week to discuss this further, so I
>
> > > appreciate your interest in helping us to reach a good outcome.
>
> > >
>
> > > Looking at the feedback we've seen so far, there are a number of
>
> > > questions and points raised where I can help to add clarity and also
>
> > > answer some specific questions.
>
> > >
>
> > > 1. Some of you asked for a breakdown of the IPv4 address space held by
>
> > > LIRs to help with your consideration of a category-based model. So here
>
> > > is a chart with that information:
>
> > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe
>
> > > .net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations%2Fdistribut
>
> > > ion-of-total-allocated-ipv4-per-lir.png&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0
>
> > > 100f08db311a3cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638157760994
>
> > > 623871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI
>
> > > 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=5gCFELEOWGX6ULpsEGUdpHHcczGA
>
> > > ij3nMotVAWCFKXg%3D&reserved=0
>
> > >
>
> > > I’d like to note that in the models we are developing, we are looking to
>
> > > move to a model that charges per member rather than per LIR account. So
>
> > > I also have an indicative spread of how many members would be in each
>
> > > category in the model we shared:
>
> > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe
>
> > > .net%2Fparticipate%2Fmail%2Fmember-and-community-consultations%2Fmember-sp
>
> > > read-across-categories.png&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f08db311a3
>
> > > cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638157760994623871%7CUnkn
>
> > > own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX
>
> > > VCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=McgLLf5YS41Pc47Zbhz95myWZLA8TKDx0Jku5FjY2
>
> > > Ao%3D&reserved=0
>
> > >
>
> > > 2. To clarify what determines the category someone is placed within in
>
> > > the model I shared, it is the highest score for just one of the
>
> > > following types of resource:
>
> > > - IPv4 allocations
>
> > > - IPv6 allocations
>
> > > - ASN assignments
>
> > > - Independent resources (includes all resource assignments not in the
>
> > > previous three categories, including all sponsored items)
>
> > > Note: Independent resources are charged by number of assignments rather
>
> > > than by the amount of IPs within the assignment.
>
> > >
>
> > > So if your highest score is for IPv4 allocations, then the amount for
>
> > > IPv6 allocations, ASNs or independent resources does not contribute to
>
> > > the category you are placed in. The highest score of the four defines
>
> > > the category. The elements that we charge for in the categories or
>
> > > separately can of course change or be refined based on your feedback.
>
> > >
>
> > > 3. Another person asked for comparison with other RIR charging schemes,
>
> > > and I provide links to the information on their websites:
>
> > > APNIC:
>
> > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apn
>
> > > ic.net%2Fget-ip%2Fapnic-membership%2Fhow-much-does-it-cost%2F&data=05%7C01
>
> > > %7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f08db311a3cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%
>
> > > 7C0%7C0%7C638157760994623871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiL
>
> > > CJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PJ%2BC
>
> > > PI4x8eDbknzv%2BjShaOX9n1%2Bs0sCt6ZhmtVffjMU%3D&reserved=0 ARIN:
>
> > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ari
>
> > > n.net%2Fresources%2Ffees%2Ffee_schedule%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d01754
>
> > > 2a0100f08db311a3cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638157760
>
> > > 994623871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJB
>
> > > TiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TAFgtin8UkyHacIE9%2F%2B06
>
> > > 0Yc%2BYrCoBdbeJlplnza7oU%3D&reserved=0 AFRINIC:
>
> > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fafrinic
>
> > > .net%2Fmembership%2Fcost%23resource&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f
>
> > > 08db311a3cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C6381577609946238
>
> > > 71%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1
>
> > > haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cb4Aaz%2FYHRUTS49YAvLPQzjeXNE5Pm
>
> > > UZ1B1MVD%2BFMYM%3D&reserved=0 LACNIC:
>
> > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lac
>
> > > nic.net%2F2399%2F2%2Flacnic%2Fmembership-fees-and-categories&data=05%7C01%
>
> > > 7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f08db311a3cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7
>
> > > C0%7C0%7C638157760994623871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC
>
> > > JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CIQB4Nf
>
> > > tyPEkV4x7BuT7dPlDIJNxyLMtFtuqGAiI0j4%3D&reserved=0
>
> > >
>
> > > 4. There was a question on how we charge for those who are still on the
>
> > > waiting list and have not yet received any IPv4 address space. We are
>
> > > still looking at how this might work and it is something I can bring up
>
> > > during the Open House. Potentially, there could be a base membership fee
>
> > > and another fee once IPv4 resources are received.
>
> > >
>
> > > 5. There was a request for comment on the idea that the RIPE NCC had
>
> > > permitted multiple LIRs in order to allow some members to receive more
>
> > > address space. In fact, the members themselves voted at the General
>
> > > Meeting to allow this in 2016. There had been a resolution by the
>
> > > Executive Board to stop the creation of multiple LIR accounts in 2015;
>
> > > there was a lengthy discussion about this and the Board therefore asked
>
> > > the members to discuss the issue and make a decision on the matter in
>
> > > 2016.
>
> > >
>
> > > Board Resolution:
>
> > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe
>
> > > .net%2Fpublications%2Fnews%2Fannouncements%2Fboard-resolution-to-suspend-c
>
> > > reation-of-multiple-lir-accounts&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f08d
>
> > > b311a3cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638157760994623871%
>
> > > 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haW
>
> > > wiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2jAWk7ZRZjTNSlfqpVwX648Bu1kwsfXvXvC
>
> > > LRGD1xWE%3D&reserved=0
>
> > >
>
> > > Membership Vote:
>
> > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe
>
> > > .net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fgm%2Fmeetings%2Fmay-2016&data=05%7C01%7C%7
>
> > > Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f08db311a3cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7
>
> > > C0%7C638157760994623871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj
>
> > > oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VefCoEB5Mso
>
> > > WARWN1HNe7c441x1uUHDXXcNy%2BXR6naU%3D&reserved=0
>
> > >
>
> > > Finally, there was a comment that we need to achieve a balance between
>
> > > fairness and complexity. This comment really resonates with me, given
>
> > > that there are possibly as many ways to charge as there are IPv6
>
> > > addresses. At the Open House next week, I plan to present updated models
>
> > > that take as much of your feedback as possible into account, and of
>
> > > course I'll share that information afterwards with the full membership.
>
> > >
>
> > > Charging Scheme 2024 Open House:
>
> > > https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe
>
> > > .net%2Fparticipate%2Fmeetings%2Fopen-house%2Fripe-ncc-open-house-charging-
>
> > > scheme-2024-consultation&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cfffe6b8d017542a0100f08db311a3cc
>
> > > 1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638157760994623871%7CUnknow
>
> > > n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVC
>
> > > I6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=OGs8lfe9V5NrsDKah9IijvLUu9pT57qicuzQ0A7Vx1s
>
> > > %3D&reserved=0
>
> > >
>
> > > Kind regards,
>
> > >
>
> > > Simon Jan Haytink
>
> > > Finance Director
>
> > > RIPE NCC
>
> > >
>
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> > > members-discuss mailing list
>
> > > members-discuss at ripe.net
>
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>
> > > 7542a0100f08db311a3cc1%7Cd0b71c570f9b4acc923b81d0b26b55b3%7C0%7C0%7C638157
>
> > > 760994623871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL
>
> > > CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ezweqpi8sbAxU7BuqAipMO
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>
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> > _______________________________________________
>
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