[members-discuss] LIR’s billing issues with RIPE NCC, need support

Dear Juri

It's the first and last time I answer to this discussion.

Three things:
1. You signed a contract.
2. We are talking about 1'400€, not 140'000€ per Year and LIR.
3. You could buy IP addresses. That's more expensive.

Regards,
Robert

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] Im Auftrag
> von Juri
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2018 01:55
> An: members-discuss at ripe.net
> Betreff: [members-discuss] LIR’s billing issues with RIPE NCC, need
> support
> 
> Dear RIPE NCC Members i.e. LIR!
> 
> RIPE77 meeting  is over but some questions still active and I want to
> bring them up for discussion. This is long-read, but please read it, it’s
> important.
> 
> I work at ISP company and work a lot of with RIPE NCC as well as for LIR
> management and registrations. I want RIPE NCC become better for all LIRs
> and try to participate. For long time I face with RIPE NCC strange billing
> issues, and I feel not comfortable with them. I run ISP company and I
> understand how to manage customers and how usually billing for services of
> the IT company should work.
> 
> I will try to split different issues in different emails.
> 
> First I want to say that I tried to find an answer for my question from
> Finance department of the RIPE NCC, I spent a time for that and I found
> that it was not correct place for that. I was forwarded to RIPE NCC Board
> for such discussion. I wrote my experience at RIPE77 Meeting to the Board
> and got feedback that the ideas and facts I explained to them should be
> discussed in Members-Discuss list because they are not described in
> Policies. So that’s my try to do that.
> 
> Let me show you several simple billing issues. They will be related to
> companies who pays much more than other companies to RIPE NCC. These are
> Multi LIR companies. Yes, everybody knows that company may have several
> LIR accounts at RIPE NCC if company pays membership and setup fees. This
> is quite normal and a lot of companies use this ability. Let’s start.
> 
> What kind of issues do we have. Let me explain most important of them.
> 
> 1) If a company want to do anything (transfer a part or merge with your
> existing company) with one of your LIRs RIPE NCC will ask you to pay till
> the end of the year for all LIRs. This is not fear and not correct because
> RIPE NCC really doesn’t give a LIR service for that companies.
> 
> 2) Let’s say you just opened in December new one LIR for your company (and
> paid fees for the last 4th part of the year + setup fees) and want to do
> something with other LIR resources on account of the same company.
>  RIPE NCC will ask to pay full year for LIR that were opened just in
> current year. What we have? You just get service for last part of the year
> but you should pay for membership for LIR for the time that it was not
> existed. This is insane for IT company to overcharge members for the past
> time.
> 
> 3) If one company merge another one - they get still limitations for
> keeping several LIRs for several years. Such things should not happen.
> It was not so sometime before but now that happens.
> 
> What I see? RIPE NCC overcharge LIRs.
> Why? It was not so some amount of time ago. RIPE NCC didn’t care about
> that, but they changed it without any discussion with members.
> 
> Now I want to answer for Important question for those members who wish to
> start telling me about something else.... I will give you an answer here.
> All RIPE NCC members have the limit for changes/transfers and etc as 2
> years (24 month) of hold time. If this time should be changed - it’s a way
> to Policy development process. Everybody believe that expenses for having
> extra LIR should be for 2 years (24 month), let’s say this is what we have
> and this delay is written in  RIPE NCC documents. If we want to discuss
> this time - it's other one discussion.
> 
> In real life this 2 years means 3 years (and usually *N). LIRs have to pay
> extra membership fees for (3-4 years)*N of LIRs, but not for 2 years as it
> should be. I find this unfair for LIRs. I want all LIRs have clear billing
> and pay for services/membership that we have really consumed.
> This is normal and correct to have clear and good billing.
> 
> 
> What do I suggest?
> 
> I suggest RIPE NCC do correct accounting for each LIR for the time this
> LIR instance exists. If LIR has annual billing - then RIPE NCC should use
> it. If LIR selected quarterly billing - RIPE NCC show use. But RIPE NCC
> should not overcharge LIRs for the time they didn't give any services for
> LIR instance.
> 
> Please support me and reply to this email. Or write your opinion.
> I believe RIPE NCC should work better for LIRs. Your voice is important.
> 
> Juri
> ------------
> NTX DataCenter/Hosting
> +7 (499) 346-76-29
> 
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