[members-discuss] LIR’s billing issues with RIPE NCC, need support

Dear Juri, All,

(please see inline)


On Tue, 4 Dec 2018, Juri wrote:

(...)
>
> 1) If a company want to do anything (transfer a part or merge with your
> existing company) with one of your LIRs RIPE NCC will ask you to pay
> till the end of the year for all LIRs. This is not fear and not correct
> because RIPE NCC really doesn?t give a LIR service for that companies.

As i understand it, the "multiple LIRs" feature was made possible after a 
lot of people circumvented the last /8 policy's spirit.

The payments until the end of year in the case of transfers/mergers are 
just (in my understanding) a way of minimizing the effects of something 
which was inevitable...



> 2) Let?s say you just opened in December new one LIR for your company
> (and paid fees for the last 4th part of the year + setup fees) and want
> to do something with other LIR resources on account of the same company.
> RIPE NCC will ask to pay full year for LIR that were opened just in
> current year. What we have? You just get service for last part of the
> year but you should pay for membership for LIR for the time that it was
> not existed. This is insane for IT company to overcharge members for the
> past time.

I think these are the current rules, yes. As this relates to payments and 
the Association, i would say any changes need to run through the RIPE 
NCC's AGM. I have no problem with the current rules, but i understand they 
can be more costly to business models where ownership is not very stable.


> 3) If one company merge another one - they get still limitations for
> keeping several LIRs for several years. Such things should not happen.
> It was not so sometime before but now that happens.

But the current rules are clear, and the limitations are not subject to 
abusive interpretation from the RIPE NCC, right?

Again, possibly through AGM's decisions the current rules can be changed.
And i think you are also correct about these limitations being rather 
recent -- they were only placed after issues around the last /8, afaik.



> What I see? RIPE NCC overcharge LIRs.
> Why? It was not so some amount of time ago. RIPE NCC didn?t care about
> that, but they changed it without any discussion with members.

Was this a decision by the Board (a former Board?)
Or a decision taken at the RIPE NCC's AGM?



> Now I want to answer for Important question for those members who wish
> to start telling me about something else.... I will give you an answer
> here. All RIPE NCC members have the limit for changes/transfers and etc
> as 2 years (24 month) of hold time. If this time should be changed -
> it?s a way to Policy development process. Everybody believe that
> expenses for having extra LIR should be for 2 years (24 month), let?s
> say this is what we have and this delay is written in  RIPE NCC
> documents. If we want to discuss this time - it's other one discussion.

I guess 2 years was the compromise solution found when this was put in 
place. Some people would like to see 5 or 10, some people were pushing for 
less than 2, so there is always a need to find the value most people can 
live with, even if they aren't totally happy with it.



> In real life this 2 years means 3 years (and usually *N). LIRs have to
> pay extra membership fees for (3-4 years)*N of LIRs, but not for 2 years
> as it should be. I find this unfair for LIRs. I want all LIRs have clear
> billing and pay for services/membership that we have really consumed.
> This is normal and correct to have clear and good billing.

I'm not sure if i understand.
Is RIPE NCC mis-interpreting the current rules/policies?



> What do I suggest?
>
> I suggest RIPE NCC do correct accounting for each LIR for the time this
> LIR instance exists. If LIR has annual billing - then RIPE NCC should
> use it. If LIR selected quarterly billing - RIPE NCC show use. But RIPE
> NCC should not overcharge LIRs for the time they didn't give any
> services for LIR instance.
>
> Please support me and reply to this email. Or write your opinion.
> I believe RIPE NCC should work better for LIRs. Your voice is important.

I would like to have the option of multiple-year billing. i.e. pay for 
Jan/2019-Dec/2021, like it is possible for domain registration.

But this is because our business model is stable, and i do understand 
different companies/organizations have different business models and 
different needs.



Best Regards,
Carlos Friaças



> Juri
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