[members-discuss] Database Abuse

Hi Mike,

I think asking if such a list comes from scraping the DB should be part of
a brokers due diligence, should it not? If for nothing else than as a
matter of civility towards those you are contacting.

Regards,
Tim.

On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Mike Burns <mike at iptrading.com> wrote:

> Hello Alex,
>
>
>
> As a broker, LIR, and contact for some address blocks in RIPE and ARIN, I
> receive these solicitations as well, and it is particularly bothersome
> getting solicited from other brokers who should know better.
>
>
>
> I would support administrative action against LIRs or registered brokers
> at RIPE who abuse the DB, but what if these people are buying a list of
> email addresses which they are not aware was scraped from the DB?  Would
> that offer some defense?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Mike Burns
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* members-discuss [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] *On
> Behalf Of *Alex Lobachov
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 07, 2017 5:24 AM
> *To:* members-discuss at ripe.net
>
> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Database Abuse
>
>
>
> Good day,
>
>
>
> I’m all for administrative actions to LIR members (usually guys who are
> involved in ipv4 transfers) who are found guilty of using the DB with
> commercial goals.
>
>
>
> Closing the LIR might be the appropriate (yet quite aggressive one) action
> for them.
>
>
>
> Comments?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alex Lobachov
> Telenet, sia
> Network Systems Engineer
> LinkedIn: https://lv.linkedin.com/in/allxll
> E-mail: alxl at telenet.lv
> Skype: alxl__
> Direct office: +371 67886224 <+371%2067%20886%20224>
> Office: +371 67711111 <+371%2067%20711%20111>
>
>
>
> *From:* Tim Armstrong <t.armstrong at nerdalize.com>
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 7, 2017 11:17 AM
>
> *To:* Vegard Svanberg <vegard at monsternett.no>
>
> *Cc:* members-discuss at ripe.net
>
> *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] Database Abuse
>
>
>
> Or if your details are in the list and / or you are a technical contact
> attached to an LIR then you can see everything.
>
> Only non-technical / non-LIR people can't access it.
>
> Perhaps use passing the RIPE DB Training course as a requirement for
> access.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7 Sep 2017 10:06 am, "Vegard Svanberg" <vegard at monsternett.no> wrote:
>
> * Tim Armstrong <t.armstrong at nerdalize.com> [2017-09-05 10:36]:
>
> > I hate to bring this subject up again, but is there really nothing
> > structural we can do about this?
> > At a minimum we could occlude e-mail addresses from the public DB,
> > instead having public complaint submitted via a webform on the NCC
> > website, requiring the uninitiated to realise this is an abuse /
> > complaint contact, not a sales opportunity.
>
> I understand the problem (and get those pitches myself nearly daily). I
> have no alternative, simple solutions. I also haven't thought this
> through in detail. :-) However, and despite all that: I'd oppose the
> idea of hiding/obfuscating emails and centralising/limiting feedback
> loops to the NCC website. I'm concerned about the operational
> consequences of limiting the opportunity to collect emails and build and
> maintain lists of contact points (potentially) important for operations.
>
> And if we remove just emails, we'd probably have to do the same with
> phone numbers. They're calling from time to time as well.
>
> Again, I haven't thought this through, but it's the knee-jerk response
> anyway. Perhaps naming, shaming and blacklisting the offenders might be
> a better way to go. Perhaps verified members could get regular database
> dumps (including contact info) from other sources, or authenticate
> against the db to get the whole lot. I don't know. I'm not sure the
> problem is big enough to warrant any major changes.
>
> --
> -o)  Vegard Svanberg, MD - Monsternett (www.monsternett.no)
> /\\ Violgata 3A, N-1776 HALDEN, NORWAY
> _\_v Phone: (+47) 69701802 | Fax: (+47) 69701801
>
>
> ----
> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
> general page:
> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/
>
> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ----
> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
> general page:
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>
> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>
> ----
> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss
> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the
> general page:
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>
> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From
> here, you can add or remove addresses.
>



-- 


*Tim Armstrong*Dark Lord of Network Operations
+31 6 175 444 72 <+31617544472>
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