[members-discuss] Input from Membership on RIPE NCC Charging Scheme Model

Hi Arash:

You should look at policy mailing list, it has been a very long and
complicated discussion for past 2 years, I can not tell you what happen in
a single sentence, but I guess the conclusion are fairly simple, it can not
be done though PDP.

With regards.

Lu

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 1:57 PM, Daniel Pearson <daniel at privatesystems.net>
wrote:

> I'm not saying that a discussion is bad, but I'm simply saying that most
> of the discussions are being had are not based on fact.
>
> To my knowledge RIPE doesn't have a list of members categorized by
> assignment size, so this is something that someone would need to parse the
> RIPE db for, it's all public record so it can be done.
>
> Would be curious to see, but even @ the estimated 15,000 LIR's this year,
> I would assume only 3,000~ or less have just a single /22 associated to
> their account. Just as a rough number I came up with about 879,126,218 IP's
> within the RIPE NCC that aren't tied to Legacy status. It's a VERY rough
> number, but as far as the average LIR size and how many one has I stopped
> short on that as that's more work than I care to put into pulling from the
> database and making associations.
>
> Let me ask you, Arash, what is your goal. Is it to simply pay less? If so,
> perhaps that is 'somewhat' feasible, assuming an agreement can be reached
> with all parties.
>
> If your goal is to try and redistribute IP's then most will agree, this is
> not possible, both in a legal sense (because of Legacy) and it would be a
> self harming policy for most people to vote for.
>
> Daniel~
>
>
>
>
> On 09/22/2016 06:44 AM, Arash Naderpour wrote:
>
> Well, Those so called small minority have the same right as the others
> thinking they are majority, thats why every organization has a right to
> vote. There is nothing wrong with trying to have a level of fairness, while
> you can spend more time on those real issues :)
>
> Maybe 1k Euro is nothing to many members, but it is something important
> the end-users that recently had to become a RIPE NCC member, to just
> receive an small block of /22. And the number of those new members are more
> than the old ones which are making a fortune by selling their unused IPv4
> to them.
>
> Can anyone from RIPE NCC tell me how many members are holding just an /22?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Arash
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 9:25 PM, Daniel Pearson <daniel at privatesystems.net
> > wrote:
>
>> I agree that people need to do a LOT more research before randomly
>> spouting off about things.
>>
>> I spent several hours showing that any change made will not result in a
>> substantial financial impact as well as others bringing valid points as far
>> as Legacy blocks, European laws in regards to a market monopoly etc, yet
>> the vast majority of the people crying for change have produced nothing
>> substantial.
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned if they can't produce a plan, based on reality,
>> then this is a dead discussion. Things should stay as is, let's move on to
>> something more realistic, such as the folks getting /29 legacy assignments
>> just to snag a LIR account as well as folks opening multiple LIR accounts
>> with the hopes of transferring the /22 into a single account one day. Those
>> are real issues that can and should be addressed more so than the small
>> minority who thinks everything in life should be fair and if it's not fair
>> lets make it fair.
>>
>> Daniel~
>>
>>
>> On 09/22/2016 05:18 AM, Dickinson, Ian wrote:
>>
>>> I do find it entertaining that the legacy resource holders that probably
>>>> have WAY WAY more space than they need and refuse to return their surplus
>>>> for the good of the internet have objections.
>>>> I feel this is because their bosses would then start asking if the need
>>>> it all. They'd then be pressured financially to return their 'cushions'. It
>>>> boils down to selfishness and not working towards the common good of the
>>>> internet. Just because you got it when we were careless as an industry
>>>> doesn't mean you should hoard it now.
>>>> We should bill legacy holders per /24 and they can then pay for the
>>>> unused space or return it. The maintenance fees can then go to reducing
>>>> costs to LIRs with limited resources who are truly optimising their
>>>> resources so they can afford to buy more on the transfer market. Or they
>>>> could do the decent thing and rationalise their requirements and return
>>>> unused space.
>>>> What does newham council need 65000 odd public ips for? What does a uni
>>>> need a /16 for? I know one uni I visited some friend at that used to give
>>>> EVERY DEVICE a public IP. That's unacceptable in the current situation.
>>>> I even know a trust that has a /20 they use in azure over a VPN that
>>>> they are using 5-10% of and they frankly said they were keeping it because
>>>> it was a cheap annual fee. If it was expensive or per IP they would have
>>>> only kept a /23 and returned the rest.
>>>> Maybe an amnesty for legacy holders where if they return 50% of their
>>>> space or more they can stay on the current charging scheme but if they
>>>> continue to hoard they are penalised?
>>>>
>>> Wow. Just wow.
>>>
>>> Legacy space is out of scope for RIPE policy for charging and reclaim.
>>>
>>> All sorts of organisations have need for addresses that may not be
>>> obvious from the outside, but that does not make them selfish.
>>> (This applies to PA space too)
>>>
>>> None of this would make any substantial difference to the exhaustion
>>> situation anyway.
>>>
>>> It would be nice if a little more research was apparent in some of the
>>> items in this thread.
>>>
>>> BTW, How advanced is your IPv6 deployment compared to your deckchair
>>> rearrangement project?
>>>
>>> Ian
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