From ipas.master at gmail.com Fri Jun 13 14:12:14 2014 From: ipas.master at gmail.com (Andrei Kushnireuski) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:12:14 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam Message-ID: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> Hi Colleagues, First of all, happy Friday 13 =) Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? Thanks. - Andrei Kushnireuski AK1065-RIPE regID: cz.alfatelecom From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Fri Jun 13 14:16:46 2014 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:16:46 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <73CB7471-A24A-4122-B3AC-566F7999B7F8@anytimechinese.com> Hi I do...and my colleagues as well...but the company number receive such spam anyway(local coc sell your info), not such big problem though. This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. > On 2014?6?13?, at ??2:12, Andrei Kushnireuski wrote: > > Hi Colleagues, > > First of all, happy Friday 13 =) > > Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. > > For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? > > Thanks. > > - > Andrei Kushnireuski > AK1065-RIPE > regID: cz.alfatelecom > > > > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From ripe at freethought-internet.co.uk Fri Jun 13 14:18:36 2014 From: ripe at freethought-internet.co.uk (Edward Dore) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:18:36 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7BC00BC8-098C-4E9F-B2D2-23BCB479A776@freethought-internet.co.uk> Cogent have done similar naughty things before, for example they got themselves banned from PeeringDB for mining contact info (http://www.peeringdb.com/view.php?asn=174). Edward Dore Freethought Internet On 13 Jun 2014, at 13:12, Andrei Kushnireuski wrote: > Hi Colleagues, > > First of all, happy Friday 13 =) > > Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. > > For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? > > Thanks. > > - > Andrei Kushnireuski > AK1065-RIPE > regID: cz.alfatelecom > > > > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com Fri Jun 13 14:18:14 2014 From: ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com (William Weber) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:18:14 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1DD047E5-C766-48C8-8472-3D19325FAE5E@edisglobal.com> Not surprised, some IP brokers do the same and annoy me - The used hardware sellers are also already jumping on the RIPE DB contacts... Maybe it's time to remove phone numbers from objects and just keep mail... something for some WG at one point -- William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh william at edisglobal.com | william at edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Graz, Austria Am 13.06.2014 um 14:12 schrieb Andrei Kushnireuski : > Hi Colleagues, > > First of all, happy Friday 13 =) > > Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. > > For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? > > Thanks. > > - > Andrei Kushnireuski > AK1065-RIPE > regID: cz.alfatelecom > > > > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominik at clouvider.co.uk Fri Jun 13 14:22:05 2014 From: dominik at clouvider.co.uk (Dominik Nowacki) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:22:05 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: <1DD047E5-C766-48C8-8472-3D19325FAE5E@edisglobal.com> References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> <1DD047E5-C766-48C8-8472-3D19325FAE5E@edisglobal.com> Message-ID: <89d034db8b0e4d468e456265685efc9a@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> I would still prefer to have a contact number to the allocation operator though. They called me once, I don't think one call is a problem to be honest. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of William Weber Sent: 13 June 2014 13:18 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam Not surprised, some IP brokers do the same and annoy me - The used hardware sellers are also already jumping on the RIPE DB contacts... Maybe it's time to remove phone numbers from objects and just keep mail... something for some WG at one point -- William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh william at edisglobal.com | william at edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Graz, Austria Am 13.06.2014 um 14:12 schrieb Andrei Kushnireuski >: Hi Colleagues, First of all, happy Friday 13 =) Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? Thanks. - Andrei Kushnireuski AK1065-RIPE regID: cz.alfatelecom ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaa at net-art.cz Fri Jun 13 14:22:49 2014 From: kaa at net-art.cz (sergey myasoedov) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:22:49 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1126475301.20140613142249@net-art.cz> Yes, from Cogent as well. But this was in 2012 or 2013. But actually this is not a spam, but marketing/sales practice as they are paying for phone calls, staff etc. Anyway they are wasting your time. Will you complain if they will send you a paper leaflets by post? You wrote Friday, June 13, 2014, 2:12:14 PM: > For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. > Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? -- Kind regards, sergey myasoedov From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Fri Jun 13 14:23:31 2014 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:23:31 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list Message-ID: Dear Colleagues: I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human Email for this list? -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. From ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com Fri Jun 13 14:24:58 2014 From: ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com (William Weber) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:24:58 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: <89d034db8b0e4d468e456265685efc9a@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> <1DD047E5-C766-48C8-8472-3D19325FAE5E@edisglobal.com> <89d034db8b0e4d468e456265685efc9a@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: It probably won't stay one only tho, Cogent reps cycle like monthly and just call again and again (at least thats what Cogent Germany does with me, plus annoying on Linkedin by each and any rep) This also seems to depend on your market, Cogent in secondary markets (like Austria) seems to be more inclined to annoy ISPs than the Tier1 locations (Amsterdam, Fra..) -- William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh william at edisglobal.com | william at edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Graz, Austria Am 13.06.2014 um 14:22 schrieb Dominik Nowacki : > I would still prefer to have a contact number to the allocation operator though. > > They called me once, I don?t think one call is a problem to be honest. > > With Kind Regards, > Dominik Nowacki > > Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. > > From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of William Weber > Sent: 13 June 2014 13:18 > To: members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam > > Not surprised, some IP brokers do the same and annoy me - The used hardware sellers are also already jumping on the RIPE DB contacts... > > Maybe it's time to remove phone numbers from objects and just keep mail... something for some WG at one point > > -- > William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh > william at edisglobal.com | william at edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net > EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC > Graz, Austria > > > > Am 13.06.2014 um 14:12 schrieb Andrei Kushnireuski : > > > Hi Colleagues, > > First of all, happy Friday 13 =) > > Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. > > For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? > > Thanks. > > - > Andrei Kushnireuski > AK1065-RIPE > regID: cz.alfatelecom > > > > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ipas.master at gmail.com Fri Jun 13 14:25:06 2014 From: ipas.master at gmail.com (Andrei) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:25:06 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Valerii, RIPE DB contains actual information NOT for marketing purposes but to provide possibility to contact IP administrator/ tech and resolve any issues. In case of mass usage DB information for marketing purposes end users will try to hide/limit actual infromation in RIPE DB. On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Valerii Lolin wrote: > and? > > it's great problem for you? > or they called to your own (private) number? > > > why your questions addressed to RIPE NCC members? > you want to discuss cogent policy? > > > > > 2014-06-13 15:12 GMT+03:00 Andrei Kushnireuski : > >> Hi Colleagues, >> >> First of all, happy Friday 13 =) >> >> Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone >> call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number >> is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. >> >> For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB >> for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? >> >> Thanks. >> >> - >> Andrei Kushnireuski >> AK1065-RIPE >> regID: cz.alfatelecom >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >> here, you can add or remove addresses. >> > > -- Andrei Kushnireuski Alfa Telecom s.r.o. REGID: cz.alfatelecom nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE phone: +420226020360 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ipas.master at gmail.com Fri Jun 13 14:26:46 2014 From: ipas.master at gmail.com (Andrei) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:26:46 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I 100% support this proposal. On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lu Heng wrote: > Dear Colleagues: > > I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort > out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you > reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. > > Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human > Email for this list? > > -- > -- > Kind regards. > Lu > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. > It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or > otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use > of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the > intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and > e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this > message and including the text of the transmission received. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > -- Andrei Kushnireuski Alfa Telecom s.r.o. REGID: cz.alfatelecom nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE phone: +420226020360 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dominik at clouvider.co.uk Fri Jun 13 14:27:44 2014 From: dominik at clouvider.co.uk (Dominik Nowacki) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:27:44 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> <1DD047E5-C766-48C8-8472-3D19325FAE5E@edisglobal.com> <89d034db8b0e4d468e456265685efc9a@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <9360cf3ca8364805a2442d445c67142c@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> They haven't attempted any more contacts, but if they do I will be concerned. For now it's one for me and it's not a big deal for me. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of William Weber Sent: 13 June 2014 13:25 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam It probably won't stay one only tho, Cogent reps cycle like monthly and just call again and again (at least thats what Cogent Germany does with me, plus annoying on Linkedin by each and any rep) This also seems to depend on your market, Cogent in secondary markets (like Austria) seems to be more inclined to annoy ISPs than the Tier1 locations (Amsterdam, Fra..) -- William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh william at edisglobal.com | william at edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Graz, Austria Am 13.06.2014 um 14:22 schrieb Dominik Nowacki >: I would still prefer to have a contact number to the allocation operator though. They called me once, I don't think one call is a problem to be honest. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of William Weber Sent: 13 June 2014 13:18 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam Not surprised, some IP brokers do the same and annoy me - The used hardware sellers are also already jumping on the RIPE DB contacts... Maybe it's time to remove phone numbers from objects and just keep mail... something for some WG at one point -- William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh william at edisglobal.com | william at edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Graz, Austria Am 13.06.2014 um 14:12 schrieb Andrei Kushnireuski >: Hi Colleagues, First of all, happy Friday 13 =) Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? Thanks. - Andrei Kushnireuski AK1065-RIPE regID: cz.alfatelecom ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leland at gandi.net Fri Jun 13 14:21:37 2014 From: leland at gandi.net (Leland Vandervort) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:21:37 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3C205616-6752-4FD8-A925-A317756A92CF@gandi.net> Hi Andrei, Whilst it is unfortunate that some companies use this data for commercial sollicitation (Cogent isn?t the only one?), the fact that the information is in the publicly-accessible RIPE database puts this information into the public domain. Although the RIPE database Terms and Conditions specifically prohibit the use of the information for commercial solicitation (Article 4, paragraph 4 refers), in practice this restriction is difficult to enforce since the data is accessible to anyone anywhere irrespective of whether or not they are RIPE members. Leland Vandervort Gandi SAS 63-65 Boulevard Massena 75013 Paris, France WWW: http://www.gandi.net/ T: +33 1 70 39 37 59 M: +33 6 31 15 15 07 On 13 Jun 2014, at 14:12, Andrei Kushnireuski wrote: > Hi Colleagues, > > First of all, happy Friday 13 =) > > Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. > > For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? > > Thanks. > > - > Andrei Kushnireuski > AK1065-RIPE > regID: cz.alfatelecom > > > > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 204 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From dominik at clouvider.co.uk Fri Jun 13 14:29:06 2014 From: dominik at clouvider.co.uk (Dominik Nowacki) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:29:06 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8d04ffd1aadc43a1b55ed0beea0d8054@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> +1. That?s one of the reasons why I?m reluctant to respond in RIPE mailing list? With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrei Sent: 13 June 2014 13:27 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list I 100% support this proposal. On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lu Heng > wrote: Dear Colleagues: I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human Email for this list? -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Andrei Kushnireuski Alfa Telecom s.r.o. REGID: cz.alfatelecom nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE phone: +420226020360 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alfredo at solucionesdinamicas.net Fri Jun 13 14:29:26 2014 From: alfredo at solucionesdinamicas.net (Alfredo Sola) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:29:26 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human > Email for this list? Hi, you have reached es.sdr technical support. A ticket regarding banning automated systems once and forever from members-discuss will be created for you. Thank you for your business. -- Alfredo Sola http://www.solucionesdinamicas.net/ From fahad at gccix.net Fri Jun 13 14:29:59 2014 From: fahad at gccix.net (Fahad AlShirawi) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:29:59 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> <1DD047E5-C766-48C8-8472-3D19325FAE5E@edisglobal.com> <89d034db8b0e4d468e456265685efc9a@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <20140613122959.5386372.15828.3589@gccix.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From dominik at clouvider.co.uk Fri Jun 13 14:30:01 2014 From: dominik at clouvider.co.uk (Dominik Nowacki) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:30:01 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list References: Message-ID: Couldn?t RIPE potentially filter those automated responses out basing on subject? With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. From: Dominik Nowacki Sent: 13 June 2014 13:29 To: 'Andrei'; members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: RE: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list +1. That?s one of the reasons why I?m reluctant to respond in RIPE mailing list? With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrei Sent: 13 June 2014 13:27 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list I 100% support this proposal. On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lu Heng > wrote: Dear Colleagues: I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human Email for this list? -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Andrei Kushnireuski Alfa Telecom s.r.o. REGID: cz.alfatelecom nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE phone: +420226020360 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fahad at gccix.net Fri Jun 13 14:30:58 2014 From: fahad at gccix.net (Fahad AlShirawi) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:30:58 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140613123058.5386372.91787.3597@gccix.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From dominik at clouvider.co.uk Fri Jun 13 14:15:17 2014 From: dominik at clouvider.co.uk (Dominik Nowacki) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 12:15:17 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, We have received one from them as well. I would not consider is spam though. We have our own AS so we might be potentially interested in IP Transit. It was B2B anyway and wasn't hard selling. I wouldn't complain. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrei Kushnireuski Sent: 13 June 2014 13:12 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam Hi Colleagues, First of all, happy Friday 13 =) Cogent uses RIPE DB for phone spam. My colleague just received a phone call from +31204621445 with IP Transit offer. Colleague's phone number is published as admin-c in RIPE DB only. For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? Thanks. - Andrei Kushnireuski AK1065-RIPE regID: cz.alfatelecom ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From matthias.subik at ucnd.at Fri Jun 13 14:31:44 2014 From: matthias.subik at ucnd.at (=?windows-1252?Q?=22Mag=2E_Matthias_=8Aubik=22?=) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:31:44 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, On 13.06.2014, at 14:12, Andrei Kushnireuski wrote: ... > For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on RIPE DB info? This is true for a lot of companies that use provision based payment. As others said before, representatives change, and each of them has a 'new' and 'bright' idea to find new customers. The only thing that helps is not to respond to such offers, or complaining to their headquarters. Setting remarks in RIPE-DB is next to useless, as they employ mostly bad coded scripts to parse only the fields they need. Moving the telephone number or post-dial PIN to the remarks helps, as network admins tend to read full whois output, instead of parsed fields in excel. Matthias -- UCND United City Network Development GmbH Steingasse 23 1030 Wien, ?sterreich FN 188089b beim Handelsgericht Wien UID ATU 54974906 Mag. Matthias ?ubik Head of Solution Design Tel.: +43 676 83820-787 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4148 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fahad at gccix.net Fri Jun 13 14:31:47 2014 From: fahad at gccix.net (Fahad AlShirawi) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:31:47 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140613123147.5386372.72347.3601@gccix.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com Fri Jun 13 14:31:35 2014 From: ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com (William Weber) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:31:35 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: <8d04ffd1aadc43a1b55ed0beea0d8054@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <8d04ffd1aadc43a1b55ed0beea0d8054@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <2A8494A5-7F1F-4581-B57F-DD2A4C10CBFE@edisglobal.com> +100 - Annoying. Filters on RIPE side would be... not really neutral IMO, but that's a policy question only anyway. It's generally much less used than it should probably be, could use some more discussion. -- William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh william at edisglobal.com | william at edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Graz, Austria Am 13.06.2014 um 14:29 schrieb Dominik Nowacki : > +1. That?s one of the reasons why I?m reluctant to respond in RIPE mailing list? > > With Kind Regards, > Dominik Nowacki > > Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. > > From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrei > Sent: 13 June 2014 13:27 > To: members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list > > I 100% support this proposal. > > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lu Heng wrote: > Dear Colleagues: > > I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort > out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you > reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. > > Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human > Email for this list? > > -- > -- > Kind regards. > Lu > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. > It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or > otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use > of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the > intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and > e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this > message and including the text of the transmission received. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > -- > Andrei Kushnireuski > Alfa Telecom s.r.o. > REGID: cz.alfatelecom > nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE > phone: +420226020360 > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.lu at outsideheaven.com Fri Jun 13 14:34:03 2014 From: h.lu at outsideheaven.com (Lu Heng) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:34:03 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: <20140613123147.5386372.72347.3601@gccix.net> References: <20140613123147.5386372.72347.3601@gccix.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Fahad AlShirawi wrote: > Yes. They could also just remove those emails from the discuss list. > +1 no one really responds to the member discussion from those Emails any way. Maybe Ripe NCC should responds in this case. > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > *From: *Dominik Nowacki > *Sent: *Friday, 13 June 2014 15:30 > *To: *Andrei; members-discuss at ripe.net > *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply > from member discussion list > > Couldn?t RIPE potentially filter those automated responses out basing on > subject? > > > > With Kind Regards, > > Dominik Nowacki > > > > Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. > Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, > United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor > email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of > security and staff training. This message contains confidential information > and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you > are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy > this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately > by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this > e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be > secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, > destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited > nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors > or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of > e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy > version. > > > > *From:* Dominik Nowacki > *Sent:* 13 June 2014 13:29 > *To:* 'Andrei'; members-discuss at ripe.net > *Subject:* RE: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply > from member discussion list > > > > +1. That?s one of the reasons why I?m reluctant to respond in RIPE mailing > list? > > > > With Kind Regards, > > Dominik Nowacki > > > > Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. > Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, > United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor > email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of > security and staff training. This message contains confidential information > and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you > are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy > this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately > by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this > e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be > secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, > destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited > nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors > or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of > e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy > version. > > > > *From:* members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [ > mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net ] > *On Behalf Of *Andrei > *Sent:* 13 June 2014 13:27 > *To:* members-discuss at ripe.net > *Subject:* Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply > from member discussion list > > > > I 100% support this proposal. > > > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lu Heng wrote: > > Dear Colleagues: > > I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort > out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you > reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. > > Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human > Email for this list? > > -- > -- > Kind regards. > Lu > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. > It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or > otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use > of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the > intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and > e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this > message and including the text of the transmission received. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > > -- > Andrei Kushnireuski > Alfa Telecom s.r.o. > REGID: cz.alfatelecom > nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE > phone: +420226020360 > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > -- This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matthias.subik at ucnd.at Fri Jun 13 14:35:36 2014 From: matthias.subik at ucnd.at (=?windows-1252?Q?=22Mag=2E_Matthias_=8Aubik=22?=) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:35:36 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65EEE8DC-14FD-4D9F-BA9C-34BE9CFFD160@ucnd.at> On 13.06.2014, at 14:29, Alfredo Sola wrote: > >> Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human >> Email for this list? > > Hi, you have reached es.sdr technical support. A ticket regarding banning automated systems once and forever from members-discuss will be created for you. Thank you for your business. +1 for irony and +1 for fake, and I would say the list operator should open the bounce list and name and shame those, that try to post back to the list, or just to all recipients (sender, bounce-address AND list) :) Matthias -- UCND United City Network Development GmbH Steingasse 23 1030 Wien, ?sterreich FN 188089b beim Handelsgericht Wien UID ATU 54974906 Mag. Matthias ?ubik Head of Solution Design Tel.: +43 676 83820-787 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4148 bytes Desc: not available URL: From andrea.cocito at ifom.eu Fri Jun 13 14:50:10 2014 From: andrea.cocito at ifom.eu (Andrea Cocito) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:50:10 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> Hi, I think that RIPE should unsubscribe those folks from the list for several reasons: 1. RFC 3834 explicitly says that vacation programs should not reply unless the "on vacation" address is explicitly in the To: or cc: headers. So each vacation program autoresponding to this list (or to the sender of messages) is wrong, and lame. 2. Any automated reply (away messages, delivery errors, ticket confirmations) should go to the Return-Path address, as requested per RFC 2821; sending automated replies to and address stolen in the "From:" header or in the To:/cc: headers is wrong, and lame. 3. Subscribing any kind of robot to this list means that you do not understand what this list is, and this is wrong, and lame. RIPE folks: please, do unsubscribe from this list ANYTHING that sends automated replies, and blacklist them forever. Thanks. A. On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Dominik Nowacki wrote: > Couldn?t RIPE potentially filter those automated responses out basing on subject? > > With Kind Regards, > Dominik Nowacki > > Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. > > From: Dominik Nowacki > Sent: 13 June 2014 13:29 > To: 'Andrei'; members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: RE: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list > > +1. That?s one of the reasons why I?m reluctant to respond in RIPE mailing list? > > With Kind Regards, > Dominik Nowacki > > Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. > > From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrei > Sent: 13 June 2014 13:27 > To: members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list > > I 100% support this proposal. > > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lu Heng wrote: > Dear Colleagues: > > I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort > out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you > reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. > > Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human > Email for this list? > > -- > -- > Kind regards. > Lu > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. > It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or > otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use > of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the > intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and > e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this > message and including the text of the transmission received. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > -- > Andrei Kushnireuski > Alfa Telecom s.r.o. > REGID: cz.alfatelecom > nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE > phone: +420226020360 > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Fri Jun 13 14:52:42 2014 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:52:42 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> Message-ID: Hi I believe that is a little bit too extreme in action...maybe Ripe NCC can spend few hours just to call few of them ask them to correct the problem...I mean end of the day it was only few of them and you can find out who they are by simply reply to this list:) On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Andrea Cocito wrote: > Hi, > > I think that RIPE should unsubscribe those folks from the list for several reasons: > 1. RFC 3834 explicitly says that vacation programs should not reply unless the "on vacation" address is explicitly in the To: or cc: headers. So each vacation program autoresponding to this list (or to the sender of messages) is wrong, and lame. > 2. Any automated reply (away messages, delivery errors, ticket confirmations) should go to the Return-Path address, as requested per RFC 2821; sending automated replies to and address stolen in the "From:" header or in the To:/cc: headers is wrong, and lame. > 3. Subscribing any kind of robot to this list means that you do not understand what this list is, and this is wrong, and lame. > > RIPE folks: please, do unsubscribe from this list ANYTHING that sends automated replies, and blacklist them forever. Thanks. > > A. > > > On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Dominik Nowacki wrote: > >> Couldn?t RIPE potentially filter those automated responses out basing on subject? >> >> With Kind Regards, >> Dominik Nowacki >> >> Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. >> >> From: Dominik Nowacki >> Sent: 13 June 2014 13:29 >> To: 'Andrei'; members-discuss at ripe.net >> Subject: RE: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list >> >> +1. That?s one of the reasons why I?m reluctant to respond in RIPE mailing list? >> >> With Kind Regards, >> Dominik Nowacki >> >> Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. >> >> From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrei >> Sent: 13 June 2014 13:27 >> To: members-discuss at ripe.net >> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list >> >> I 100% support this proposal. >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lu Heng wrote: >> Dear Colleagues: >> >> I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort >> out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you >> reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. >> >> Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human >> Email for this list? >> >> -- >> -- >> Kind regards. >> Lu >> >> This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. >> It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or >> otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use >> of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the >> intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received >> this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and >> e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this >> message and including the text of the transmission received. >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. >> >> >> >> -- >> Andrei Kushnireuski >> Alfa Telecom s.r.o. >> REGID: cz.alfatelecom >> nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE >> phone: +420226020360 >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. From fahad at gccix.net Fri Jun 13 14:54:52 2014 From: fahad at gccix.net (Fahad AlShirawi) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:54:52 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> Message-ID: <20140613125452.5386372.40846.3616@gccix.net> Calling is effort and time. I propose unsubscribing. But not black listing. People learn and can change.? Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. ? Original Message ? From: Lu Heng Sent: Friday, 13 June 2014 15:53 To: Andrea Cocito Cc: Andrei; members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list Hi I believe that is a little bit too extreme in action...maybe Ripe NCC can spend few hours just to call few of them ask them to correct the problem...I mean end of the day it was only few of them and you can find out who they are by simply reply to this list:) On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Andrea Cocito wrote: > Hi, > > I think that RIPE should unsubscribe those folks from the list for several reasons: > 1. RFC 3834 explicitly says that vacation programs should not reply unless the "on vacation" address is explicitly in the To: or cc: headers. So each vacation program autoresponding to this list (or to the sender of messages) is wrong, and lame. > 2. Any automated reply (away messages, delivery errors, ticket confirmations) should go to the Return-Path address, as requested per RFC 2821; sending automated replies to and address stolen in the "From:" header or in the To:/cc: headers is wrong, and lame. > 3. Subscribing any kind of robot to this list means that you do not understand what this list is, and this is wrong, and lame. > > RIPE folks: please, do unsubscribe from this list ANYTHING that sends automated replies, and blacklist them forever. Thanks. > > A. > > > On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Dominik Nowacki wrote: > >> Couldn?t RIPE potentially filter those automated responses out basing on subject? >> >> With Kind Regards, >> Dominik Nowacki >> >> Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. >> >> From: Dominik Nowacki >> Sent: 13 June 2014 13:29 >> To: 'Andrei'; members-discuss at ripe.net >> Subject: RE: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list >> >> +1. That?s one of the reasons why I?m reluctant to respond in RIPE mailing list? >> >> With Kind Regards, >> Dominik Nowacki >> >> Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. >> >> From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrei >> Sent: 13 June 2014 13:27 >> To: members-discuss at ripe.net >> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list >> >> I 100% support this proposal. >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lu Heng wrote: >> Dear Colleagues: >> >> I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort >> out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you >> reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. >> >> Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human >> Email for this list? >> >> -- >> -- >> Kind regards. >> Lu >> >> This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. >> It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or >> otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use >> of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the >> intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received >> this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and >> e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this >> message and including the text of the transmission received. >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. >> >> >> >> -- >> Andrei Kushnireuski >> Alfa Telecom s.r.o. >> REGID: cz.alfatelecom >> nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE >> phone: +420226020360 >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com Fri Jun 13 14:59:06 2014 From: ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com (William Weber) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:59:06 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: <20140613125452.5386372.40846.3616@gccix.net> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <20140613125452.5386372.40846.3616@gccix.net> Message-ID: <2FAEFD9B-264C-4EAC-958E-7C8CC28B9AA2@edisglobal.com> With/For the money we pay RIPE should simply take that few minutes and do something. Unsubscribing works of course also but someone should probably inform them in some way why/that it happened. -- William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh william at edisglobal.com | william at edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Graz, Austria Am 13.06.2014 um 14:54 schrieb Fahad AlShirawi : > Calling is effort and time. I propose unsubscribing. But not black listing. People learn and can change. > > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > Original Message > From: Lu Heng > Sent: Friday, 13 June 2014 15:53 > To: Andrea Cocito > Cc: Andrei; members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list > > Hi > > I believe that is a little bit too extreme in action...maybe Ripe NCC > can spend few hours just to call few of them ask them to correct the > problem...I mean end of the day it was only few of them and you can > find out who they are by simply reply to this list:) > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Andrea Cocito wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I think that RIPE should unsubscribe those folks from the list for several reasons: >> 1. RFC 3834 explicitly says that vacation programs should not reply unless the "on vacation" address is explicitly in the To: or cc: headers. So each vacation program autoresponding to this list (or to the sender of messages) is wrong, and lame. >> 2. Any automated reply (away messages, delivery errors, ticket confirmations) should go to the Return-Path address, as requested per RFC 2821; sending automated replies to and address stolen in the "From:" header or in the To:/cc: headers is wrong, and lame. >> 3. Subscribing any kind of robot to this list means that you do not understand what this list is, and this is wrong, and lame. >> >> RIPE folks: please, do unsubscribe from this list ANYTHING that sends automated replies, and blacklist them forever. Thanks. >> >> A. >> >> >> On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Dominik Nowacki wrote: >> >>> Couldn?t RIPE potentially filter those automated responses out basing on subject? >>> >>> With Kind Regards, >>> Dominik Nowacki >>> >>> Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. >>> >>> From: Dominik Nowacki >>> Sent: 13 June 2014 13:29 >>> To: 'Andrei'; members-discuss at ripe.net >>> Subject: RE: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list >>> >>> +1. That?s one of the reasons why I?m reluctant to respond in RIPE mailing list? >>> >>> With Kind Regards, >>> Dominik Nowacki >>> >>> Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. >>> >>> From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrei >>> Sent: 13 June 2014 13:27 >>> To: members-discuss at ripe.net >>> Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list >>> >>> I 100% support this proposal. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lu Heng wrote: >>> Dear Colleagues: >>> >>> I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort >>> out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you >>> reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. >>> >>> Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human >>> Email for this list? >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Kind regards. >>> Lu >>> >>> This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. >>> It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or >>> otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use >>> of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the >>> intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received >>> this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and >>> e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this >>> message and including the text of the transmission received. >>> >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Andrei Kushnireuski >>> Alfa Telecom s.r.o. >>> REGID: cz.alfatelecom >>> nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE >>> phone: +420226020360 >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. >> >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > -- > -- > Kind regards. > Lu > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. > It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or > otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use > of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the > intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and > e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this > message and including the text of the transmission received. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fahad at gccix.net Fri Jun 13 15:06:26 2014 From: fahad at gccix.net (Fahad AlShirawi) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 16:06:26 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: <2FAEFD9B-264C-4EAC-958E-7C8CC28B9AA2@edisglobal.com> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <20140613125452.5386372.40846.3616@gccix.net> <2FAEFD9B-264C-4EAC-958E-7C8CC28B9AA2@edisglobal.com> Message-ID: <20140613130626.5386372.21677.3624@gccix.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Fri Jun 13 15:07:53 2014 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:07:53 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: <20140613130626.5386372.21677.3624@gccix.net> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <20140613125452.5386372.40846.3616@gccix.net> <2FAEFD9B-264C-4EAC-958E-7C8CC28B9AA2@edisglobal.com> <20140613130626.5386372.21677.3624@gccix.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 3:06 PM, Fahad AlShirawi wrote: > The problem is, as an organisation, to set up this process will incur a > cost and will require additional FTEs so that other services aren't > impacted. I am not saying ?this can't be done on the side, I am just saying > I know how things work and what would end up happening under the current > processes and workload. It's easier to just remove the entries from the > discuss list and if the LIR contacts to ask what is going on, the person > answering the call can explain. This is more of a short term project and > would never justify additional FTEs and no argument can be made for them. > > +1 > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > *From: *William Weber > *Sent: *Friday, 13 June 2014 15:59 > *To: *members-discuss at ripe.net > *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply > from member discussion list > > With/For the money we pay RIPE should simply take that few minutes and do > something. Unsubscribing works of course also but someone should probably > inform them in some way why/that it happened. > > -- > William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh > william at edisglobal.com | william at edis.at | http://edis.at | > http://as57169.net > EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC > Graz, Austria > > > > Am 13.06.2014 um 14:54 schrieb Fahad AlShirawi : > > Calling is effort and time. I propose unsubscribing. But not black > listing. People learn and can change. > > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. > Original Message > From: Lu Heng > Sent: Friday, 13 June 2014 15:53 > To: Andrea Cocito > Cc: Andrei; members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from > member discussion list > > Hi > > I believe that is a little bit too extreme in action...maybe Ripe NCC > can spend few hours just to call few of them ask them to correct the > problem...I mean end of the day it was only few of them and you can > find out who they are by simply reply to this list:) > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Andrea Cocito > wrote: > > Hi, > > I think that RIPE should unsubscribe those folks from the list for several > reasons: > 1. RFC 3834 explicitly says that vacation programs should not reply unless > the "on vacation" address is explicitly in the To: or cc: headers. So each > vacation program autoresponding to this list (or to the sender of messages) > is wrong, and lame. > 2. Any automated reply (away messages, delivery errors, ticket > confirmations) should go to the Return-Path address, as requested per RFC > 2821; sending automated replies to and address stolen in the "From:" header > or in the To:/cc: headers is wrong, and lame. > 3. Subscribing any kind of robot to this list means that you do not > understand what this list is, and this is wrong, and lame. > > RIPE folks: please, do unsubscribe from this list ANYTHING that sends > automated replies, and blacklist them forever. Thanks. > > A. > > > On Jun 13, 2014, at 2:30 PM, Dominik Nowacki > wrote: > > Couldn?t RIPE potentially filter those automated responses out basing on > subject? > > With Kind Regards, > Dominik Nowacki > > Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. > Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, > United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor > email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of > security and staff training. This message contains confidential information > and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you > are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy > this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately > by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this > e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be > secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, > destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited > nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors > or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of > e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy > version. > > From: Dominik Nowacki > Sent: 13 June 2014 13:29 > To: 'Andrei'; members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: RE: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from > member discussion list > > +1. That?s one of the reasons why I?m reluctant to respond in RIPE mailing > list? > > With Kind Regards, > Dominik Nowacki > > Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. > Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, > United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor > email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of > security and staff training. This message contains confidential information > and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you > are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy > this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately > by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this > e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be > secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, > destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited > nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors > or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of > e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy > version. > > From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [ > mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net ] > On Behalf Of Andrei > Sent: 13 June 2014 13:27 > To: members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from > member discussion list > > I 100% support this proposal. > > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lu Heng wrote: > Dear Colleagues: > > I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort > out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you > reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. > > Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human > Email for this list? > > -- > -- > Kind regards. > Lu > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. > It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or > otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use > of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the > intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and > e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this > message and including the text of the transmission received. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > -- > Andrei Kushnireuski > Alfa Telecom s.r.o. > REGID: cz.alfatelecom > nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE > phone: +420226020360 > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > > -- > -- > Kind regards. > Lu > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. > It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or > otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use > of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the > intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and > e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this > message and including the text of the transmission received. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matthias.subik at ucnd.at Fri Jun 13 15:18:18 2014 From: matthias.subik at ucnd.at (=?windows-1252?Q?=22Mag=2E_Matthias_=8Aubik=22?=) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:18:18 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> Message-ID: <2CBB3766-223E-43E5-9268-4EA31F6BA21E@ucnd.at> On 13.06.2014, at 14:50, Andrea Cocito wrote: 1. and 2. are completely right, > > 3. Subscribing any kind of robot to this list means that you do not understand what this list is, and this is wrong, and lame. the recipient might not did this. They might got the address forwarded from their predecessor. > > RIPE folks: please, do unsubscribe from this list ANYTHING that sends automated replies, and blacklist them forever. Thanks. this is too drastic. as stated above, this might not be voluntarily, it might be by error, or similar. When you have ever got an IP which was blacklisted "forever" by some quick fix solution, you will hate this approach. I would opt for unsubscribe and automated notice why. this takes much less time, and they can read the explanation, IF they ever read the tickets opened for them (I assume these tickets end in dark dead queues of thousands of unsolved 'tickets'. all the best Matthias -- UCND United City Network Development GmbH Steingasse 23 1030 Wien, ?sterreich FN 188089b beim Handelsgericht Wien UID ATU 54974906 Mag. Matthias ?ubik Head of Solution Design Tel.: +43 676 83820-787 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4148 bytes Desc: not available URL: From oskar at cetex.se Fri Jun 13 15:24:33 2014 From: oskar at cetex.se (oskar at cetex.se) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:24:33 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5e27e9e1dd43afc9c458e23cab08e275@cetex.se> Or implement some kind of captcha for anonymous requests on the web so programmatic mining without a person-object and a registered maintainer becomes trickier, and remove email / phone from the files on the ftp-site. If someone wants to get in touch they just have to solve the captcha and the information will be available. If someone wants to get data from CLI or automatic they would have to provide user-info when they do their request, or get a response with such data removed. I have no idea how large the repercursions of doing this would be though. I guess this knowledge exists on the list though. :) Oskar Stenman 2014-06-13 14:31 skrev Mag. Matthias ?ubik: > Hello, > On 13.06.2014, at 14:12, Andrei Kushnireuski wrote: > ... >> For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use >> RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on >> RIPE DB info? > > This is true for a lot of companies that use provision based payment. > As others said before, representatives change, and each of them has a > 'new' and 'bright' idea to find new customers. > > The only thing that helps is not to respond to such offers, or > complaining to their headquarters. Setting remarks in RIPE-DB is next > to useless, as they employ mostly bad coded scripts to parse only the > fields they need. Moving the telephone number or post-dial PIN to the > remarks helps, as network admins tend to read full whois output, > instead of parsed fields in excel. > > Matthias > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". > From here, you can add or remove addresses. From dominik at clouvider.co.uk Fri Jun 13 15:33:15 2014 From: dominik at clouvider.co.uk (Dominik Nowacki) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 13:33:15 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: <5e27e9e1dd43afc9c458e23cab08e275@cetex.se> References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> <5e27e9e1dd43afc9c458e23cab08e275@cetex.se> Message-ID: <6facd3afae4243e6a293b217fafea273@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Oskar, problem here is that they are real people who call, they can also solve captchas. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of oskar at cetex.se Sent: 13 June 2014 14:25 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam Or implement some kind of captcha for anonymous requests on the web so programmatic mining without a person-object and a registered maintainer becomes trickier, and remove email / phone from the files on the ftp-site. If someone wants to get in touch they just have to solve the captcha and the information will be available. If someone wants to get data from CLI or automatic they would have to provide user-info when they do their request, or get a response with such data removed. I have no idea how large the repercursions of doing this would be though. I guess this knowledge exists on the list though. :) Oskar Stenman 2014-06-13 14:31 skrev Mag. Matthias ?ubik: > Hello, > On 13.06.2014, at 14:12, Andrei Kushnireuski wrote: > ... >> For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use >> RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based on >> RIPE DB info? > > This is true for a lot of companies that use provision based payment. > As others said before, representatives change, and each of them has a > 'new' and 'bright' idea to find new customers. > > The only thing that helps is not to respond to such offers, or > complaining to their headquarters. Setting remarks in RIPE-DB is next > to useless, as they employ mostly bad coded scripts to parse only the > fields they need. Moving the telephone number or post-dial PIN to the > remarks helps, as network admins tend to read full whois output, > instead of parsed fields in excel. > > Matthias > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". > From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk Fri Jun 13 15:55:48 2014 From: brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk (Brandon Butterworth) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 14:55:48 +0100 (BST) Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list Message-ID: <201406131355.OAA25336@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> and remove people sending html only email? >
The problem is, as an organisation, to set up this process will incur a cost and will require additional FTEs so that other services aren't impacted. I am not saying ???this can't be done on the side, I am just saying I know how things work and what would end up happening under the current processes and workload. It's easier to just remove the entries from the discuss list and if the LIR contacts to ask what is going on, the person answering the call can explain. This is more of a short term project and would never justify additional FTEs and no argument can be made for them. 
... From oskar at cetex.se Fri Jun 13 16:12:10 2014 From: oskar at cetex.se (oskar at cetex.se) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 16:12:10 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam In-Reply-To: <6facd3afae4243e6a293b217fafea273@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <542BD9AF-5A54-4C95-8D23-B3075EDB6CA9@gmail.com> <5e27e9e1dd43afc9c458e23cab08e275@cetex.se> <6facd3afae4243e6a293b217fafea273@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: I agree. It depends on how they get the data. If they're manually searching the database and calling people they find they're investing some time to find the correct person and I believe that shouldn't be a big issue, but it may be annoying for those affected. If on the other hand someone automates the extraction and gives the information to a callcenter I'd be a bit disturbed by their tactics. But i guess hiding the information so it gets trickier to automate extraction would have wider consequences. Automated DMCA notifications / copyright infringement notifications / spam and other weird stuff where there isn't a person on the other end could probably decrease a bit. Oskar Stenman 2014-06-13 15:33 skrev Dominik Nowacki: > Oskar, problem here is that they are real people who call, they can > also solve captchas. > > > With Kind Regards, > Dominik Nowacki > > Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and > Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood > Street, > London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited > may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the > purposes of security and staff training. This message contains > confidential information and is intended only for the intended > recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you > should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify > abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have > received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your > system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or > error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, > destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider > Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability > for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which > arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required > please request a hard-copy version. > > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of oskar at cetex.se > Sent: 13 June 2014 14:25 > To: members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Cogent uses RIPE DB for spam > > Or implement some kind of captcha for anonymous requests on the web > so programmatic mining without a person-object and a registered > maintainer becomes trickier, and remove email / phone from the files > on the ftp-site. > > If someone wants to get in touch they just have to solve the captcha > and the information will be available. > If someone wants to get data from CLI or automatic they would have to > provide user-info when they do their request, or get a response with > such data removed. > > I have no idea how large the repercursions of doing this would be > though. I guess this knowledge exists on the list though. :) > > Oskar Stenman > > 2014-06-13 14:31 skrev Mag. Matthias ?ubik: >> Hello, >> On 13.06.2014, at 14:12, Andrei Kushnireuski wrote: >> ... >>> For me it's very bad practice for same company like Cogent to use >>> RIPE DB for spamming. Did anybody receive same calls/emails based >>> on >>> RIPE DB info? >> >> This is true for a lot of companies that use provision based >> payment. >> As others said before, representatives change, and each of them has >> a >> 'new' and 'bright' idea to find new customers. >> >> The only thing that helps is not to respond to such offers, or >> complaining to their headquarters. Setting remarks in RIPE-DB is >> next >> to useless, as they employ mostly bad coded scripts to parse only >> the >> fields they need. Moving the telephone number or post-dial PIN to >> the >> remarks helps, as network admins tend to read full whois output, >> instead of parsed fields in excel. >> >> Matthias >> >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC >> members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". >> From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". > From here, you can add or remove addresses. From sr at ripe.net Fri Jun 13 16:58:20 2014 From: sr at ripe.net (Serge Radovcic) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 16:58:20 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> Message-ID: <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> Hello all humans out there that are reading this mail, I want to say that I feel your pain as I too have to deal with all these ticket system replies on a daily basis and would also like to tackle this issue. I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first gaining permission. Furthermore, the email addresses subscribed to the 'members-discuss' mailing list are the ones LIRs configure in the LIR Portal. Unfortunately, sometimes emails sent to the members-discuss list are forwarded internally to other addresses ? such as in the case of ticketing systems or role emails ? and those are the ones sending the automated replies. We can look for similar domains in the list of subscribers, but we might not find an exact match with the sending email (which can be something like 'noreply at example.com'). In that case, we can't be confident that we are un-subscribing the correct address. In order to be successful, we'll have to contact the companies in question and find out the chains of redirects that lead to the problem in order to get them fixed/removed from the LIR Portal subscriptions. Over the past year or so, and due to our team's efforts, we reduced the amount of automated ticket responses from more than well over 100 to about 30 or so that we still get today. Which isn't too bad considering some 3,015 email addresses are subscribed to this list, but I agree that zero would be the ultimate goal! I am more than happy to go after those that are remaining (which I am about to receive an updated list of after hitting "Send") to reduce this amount even further if possible. And for those of you that are behind these ticket systems and are actually reading this thread, can you provide an alternative email address that will not produce an automated ticket response. Here is the URL that will explain how you can do this: https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/info/membership-mailing-lists/subscribing-to-members-discuss Here's looking forward to a more human mailing list! Take care, Serge Radovcic Chief Communications Officer RIPE NCC From notifications.nws-spain at t-systems.es Fri Jun 13 17:02:51 2014 From: notifications.nws-spain at t-systems.es (BUZON TSE GSOPER NOTIFICATIONS NWS-SPAIN) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:02:51 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> Message-ID: <43E51234B17F0743AE73C2C6CE03225D0583B21B@TSEBCN12EW.itc.ads.t-systems.es> Dear all, Please, remove our mail address noc.plan at t-systems.es for this discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!! BR, Jos? Luis Pe?as Cuesta T-Systems Iberia Supervisor Desktop Services & Solutions - CIC/NOC Sancho de ?vila 110 - 130 08018 Barcelona Tel?fono: +34 93 341 96 28 +34 682779680 E-mail: joseluis.penas at t-systems.es Internet: http//:www.t-systems.es -----Mensaje original----- De: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] En nombre de Serge Radovcic Enviado el: viernes, 13 de junio de 2014 16:58 Para: members-discuss at ripe.net Asunto: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies Hello all humans out there that are reading this mail, I want to say that I feel your pain as I too have to deal with all these ticket system replies on a daily basis and would also like to tackle this issue. I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first gaining permission. Furthermore, the email addresses subscribed to the 'members-discuss' mailing list are the ones LIRs configure in the LIR Portal. Unfortunately, sometimes emails sent to the members-discuss list are forwarded internally to other addresses - such as in the case of ticketing systems or role emails - and those are the ones sending the automated replies. We can look for similar domains in the list of subscribers, but we might not find an exact match with the sending email (which can be something like 'noreply at example.com'). In that case, we can't be confident that we are un-subscribing the correct address. In order to be successful, we'll have to contact the companies in question and find out the chains of redirects that lead to the problem in order to get them fixed/removed from the LIR Portal subscriptions. Over the past year or so, and due to our team's efforts, we reduced the amount of automated ticket responses from more than well over 100 to about 30 or so that we still get today. Which isn't too bad considering some 3,015 email addresses are subscribed to this list, but I agree that zero would be the ultimate goal! I am more than happy to go after those that are remaining (which I am about to receive an updated list of after hitting "Send") to reduce this amount even further if possible. And for those of you that are behind these ticket systems and are actually reading this thread, can you provide an alternative email address that will not produce an automated ticket response. Here is the URL that will explain how you can do this: https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/info/membership-mailing-lists/subscribing-to-members-discuss Here's looking forward to a more human mailing list! Take care, Serge Radovcic Chief Communications Officer RIPE NCC ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential or privileged information. Any unauthorized copying, use or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited. From nick at netability.ie Fri Jun 13 17:14:30 2014 From: nick at netability.ie (Nick Hilliard) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 16:14:30 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <43E51234B17F0743AE73C2C6CE03225D0583B21B@TSEBCN12EW.itc.ads.t-systems.es> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <43E51234B17F0743AE73C2C6CE03225D0583B21B@TSEBCN12EW.itc.ads.t-systems.es> Message-ID: <539B1556.6040002@netability.ie> On 13/06/2014 16:02, BUZON TSE GSOPER NOTIFICATIONS NWS-SPAIN wrote: > Please, remove our mail address noc.plan at t-systems.es for this discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!! if only there were clear instructions on how to remove yourself attached to the end of every mail send to members-discuss at ripe.net. I wonder could the RIPE NCC organise this? Nick > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > From alfredo at solucionesdinamicas.net Fri Jun 13 17:18:07 2014 From: alfredo at solucionesdinamicas.net (Alfredo Sola) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:18:07 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <43E51234B17F0743AE73C2C6CE03225D0583B21B@TSEBCN12EW.itc.ads.t-systems.es> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <43E51234B17F0743AE73C2C6CE03225D0583B21B@TSEBCN12EW.itc.ads.t-systems.es> Message-ID: > Please, remove our mail address noc.plan at t-systems.es for this discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think there has to be a way to embarrass yourself more in front of all the European ISPs, but I can't think of it right now. I will try to explain, though. You have a problem with your mail, not the rest of Europe. You seem to need to fix your problem, as it seems to stress you. Unfortunately, nobody outside your organization can or will fix your problem for you. Therefore, gather your information together, contact the ppl inside your company that works with RIPE, explain them the situation and that will likely fix your problem. As a collateral benefit, the rest of the European ISPs will get rid of a small part of a mild annoyance. Have a nice weekend. -- Alfredo Sola http://www.solucionesdinamicas.net/ From fahad at gccix.net Fri Jun 13 17:20:13 2014 From: fahad at gccix.net (Fahad AlShirawi) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 18:20:13 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <43E51234B17F0743AE73C2C6CE03225D0583B21B@TSEBCN12EW.itc.ads.t-systems.es> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <43E51234B17F0743AE73C2C6CE03225D0583B21B@TSEBCN12EW.itc.ads.t-systems.es> Message-ID: <20140613152013.5386372.796.3646@gccix.net> Scroll to the bottom of this discussion. Instructions on how to unsubscribe are there . You can do it yourself.? Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. ? Original Message ? From: BUZON TSE GSOPER NOTIFICATIONS NWS-SPAIN Sent: Friday, 13 June 2014 18:12 To: Serge Radovcic; members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies Dear all, Please, remove our mail address noc.plan at t-systems.es for this discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!! BR, Jos? Luis Pe?as Cuesta T-Systems Iberia Supervisor Desktop Services & Solutions - CIC/NOC Sancho de ?vila 110 - 130 08018 Barcelona Tel?fono: +34 93 341 96 28 +34 682779680 E-mail: joseluis.penas at t-systems.es Internet: http//:www.t-systems.es -----Mensaje original----- De: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] En nombre de Serge Radovcic Enviado el: viernes, 13 de junio de 2014 16:58 Para: members-discuss at ripe.net Asunto: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies Hello all humans out there that are reading this mail, I want to say that I feel your pain as I too have to deal with all these ticket system replies on a daily basis and would also like to tackle this issue. I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first gaining permission. Furthermore, the email addresses subscribed to the 'members-discuss' mailing list are the ones LIRs configure in the LIR Portal. Unfortunately, sometimes emails sent to the members-discuss list are forwarded internally to other addresses - such as in the case of ticketing systems or role emails - and those are the ones sending the automated replies. We can look for similar domains in the list of subscribers, but we might not find an exact match with the sending email (which can be something like 'noreply at example.com'). In that case, we can't be confident that we are un-subscribing the correct address. In order to be successful, we'll have to contact the companies in question and find out the chains of redirects that lead to the problem in order to get them fixed/removed from the LIR Portal subscriptions. Over the past year or so, and due to our team's efforts, we reduced the amount of automated ticket responses from more than well over 100 to about 30 or so that we still get today. Which isn't too bad considering some 3,015 email addresses are subscribed to this list, but I agree that zero would be the ultimate goal! I am more than happy to go after those that are remaining (which I am about to receive an updated list of after hitting "Send") to reduce this amount even further if possible. And for those of you that are behind these ticket systems and are actually reading this thread, can you provide an alternative email address that will not produce an automated ticket response. Here is the URL that will explain how you can do this: https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/info/membership-mailing-lists/subscribing-to-members-discuss Here's looking forward to a more human mailing list! Take care, Serge Radovcic Chief Communications Officer RIPE NCC ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential or privileged information. Any unauthorized copying, use or distribution of this information is strictly prohibited. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From fahad at gccix.net Fri Jun 13 17:21:49 2014 From: fahad at gccix.net (Fahad AlShirawi) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 18:21:49 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <539B1556.6040002@netability.ie> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <43E51234B17F0743AE73C2C6CE03225D0583B21B@TSEBCN12EW.itc.ads.t-systems.es> <539B1556.6040002@netability.ie> Message-ID: <20140613152149.5386372.1363.3650@gccix.net> Oh good one :) I like this one better than mine. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. ? Original Message ? From: Nick Hilliard Sent: Friday, 13 June 2014 18:15 To: BUZON TSE GSOPER NOTIFICATIONS NWS-SPAIN; Serge Radovcic; members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies On 13/06/2014 16:02, BUZON TSE GSOPER NOTIFICATIONS NWS-SPAIN wrote: > Please, remove our mail address noc.plan at t-systems.es for this discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!! if only there were clear instructions on how to remove yourself attached to the end of every mail send to members-discuss at ripe.net. I wonder could the RIPE NCC organise this? Nick > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From gert at space.net Fri Jun 13 17:24:43 2014 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:24:43 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> Message-ID: <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> Hi, On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 04:58:20PM +0200, Serge Radovcic wrote: > I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first gaining > permission. We do this on the address-policy mailing list - whoever sends an autoreply to a list post will be unsubscribed, and receive a notice why. This was proposed to the APWG list, and people agreed to it, so following community consensus. That's what I'd propose to do here as well: - propose to do it exactly that way ("who sends an autoreply gets unsubscribed, and informed about the reasons why") - wait 14 days for community feedback - if nobody protests, go there. > Furthermore, the email addresses subscribed to the 'members-discuss' > mailing list are the ones LIRs configure in the LIR Portal. > > Unfortunately, sometimes emails sent to the members-discuss list are > forwarded internally to other addresses ? such as in the case of > ticketing systems or role emails ? and those are the ones sending the > automated replies. > > We can look for similar domains in the list of subscribers, but we might > not find an exact match with the sending email (which can be something > like 'noreply at example.com'). In that case, we can't be confident that we > are un-subscribing the correct address. If you can't find the culprit, send probes coming from unique sender addresses, so you can see on the autoreply to: address which receiver this was mapped to. Mailman can even do this automatically for you :-) Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 811 bytes Desc: not available URL: From admin at inasset.es Fri Jun 13 17:16:53 2014 From: admin at inasset.es (Administration - [ inAsset Networks ]) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:16:53 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <43E51234B17F0743AE73C2C6CE03225D0583B21B@TSEBCN12EW.itc.ads.t-systems.es> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <43E51234B17F0743AE73C2C6CE03225D0583B21B@TSEBCN12EW.itc.ads.t-systems.es> Message-ID: <503CD2B2-B7E8-459E-81A7-811AF01B7A03@inasset.es> Hi, Removal instructions are at the end of every message. R, Administration - [ inAsset Networks ] P : +34 911 335 002 F : +34 911 701 242 E-mail : admin at inasset.es / admin at trueinter.net We deliver True Internet Facebook : https://facebook.com/inasset Twitter : https://twitter.com/inassetnetworks El 13/06/2014, a las 17:02, BUZON TSE GSOPER NOTIFICATIONS NWS-SPAIN escribi?: > Dear all, > > Please, remove our mail address noc.plan at t-systems.es for this discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > BR, > > Jos? Luis Pe?as Cuesta > T-Systems Iberia > Supervisor Desktop Services & Solutions - CIC/NOC > Sancho de ?vila 110 - 130 > 08018 Barcelona > Tel?fono: +34 93 341 96 28 > +34 682779680 > E-mail: joseluis.penas at t-systems.es > Internet: http//:www.t-systems.es > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] En nombre de Serge Radovcic > Enviado el: viernes, 13 de junio de 2014 16:58 > Para: members-discuss at ripe.net > Asunto: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies > > Hello all humans out there that are reading this mail, > > I want to say that I feel your pain as I too have to deal with all these ticket system replies on a daily basis and would also like to tackle this issue. > > I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first gaining permission. > > Furthermore, the email addresses subscribed to the 'members-discuss' > mailing list are the ones LIRs configure in the LIR Portal. > > Unfortunately, sometimes emails sent to the members-discuss list are forwarded internally to other addresses - such as in the case of ticketing systems or role emails - and those are the ones sending the automated replies. > > We can look for similar domains in the list of subscribers, but we might not find an exact match with the sending email (which can be something like 'noreply at example.com'). In that case, we can't be confident that we are un-subscribing the correct address. > > In order to be successful, we'll have to contact the companies in question and find out the chains of redirects that lead to the problem in order to get them fixed/removed from the LIR Portal subscriptions. > > Over the past year or so, and due to our team's efforts, we reduced the amount of automated ticket responses from more than well over 100 to about 30 or so that we still get today. Which isn't too bad considering some 3,015 email addresses are subscribed to this list, but I agree that zero would be the ultimate goal! > > I am more than happy to go after those that are remaining (which I am about to receive an updated list of after hitting "Send") to reduce this amount even further if possible. > > And for those of you that are behind these ticket systems and are actually reading this thread, can you provide an alternative email address that will not produce an automated ticket response. Here is the URL that will explain how you can do this: > > https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/info/membership-mailing-lists/subscribing-to-members-discuss > > Here's looking forward to a more human mailing list! > > Take care, > > Serge Radovcic > Chief Communications Officer > RIPE NCC > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential or privileged information. > Any unauthorized copying, use or distribution of this information is strictly > prohibited. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: inasset.es.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 15423 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jcs at bitcanal.com Fri Jun 13 17:33:07 2014 From: jcs at bitcanal.com (Joao Silveira) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 16:33:07 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Remove Message-ID: <88664722ce023d40c7147c24e4e6463c@mail.bitcanal.com> Please remove our mail addres from this discussion. -- Joao Silveira HQ: Rua 28 de Janeiro 350 - B11 - 4400-335 Vila Nova de Gaia | PORTUGAL Phone: +351 227 136 188 | Mobile: +351 912 386 351 Rio Office: Rua Pinheiro Guimar?ees, 150 - 22281-080 Rio de Janeiro | BRAZIL Phone: +55 (21) 2538-2318 | Mobile: +55 (21) 99798-3523 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pkambach at kambach.net Fri Jun 13 17:36:54 2014 From: pkambach at kambach.net (Patrick Kambach) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:36:54 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Remove In-Reply-To: <88664722ce023d40c7147c24e4e6463c@mail.bitcanal.com> References: <88664722ce023d40c7147c24e4e6463c@mail.bitcanal.com> Message-ID: <539B1A96.6030001@kambach.net> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. Am 13.06.2014 17:33, schrieb Joao Silveira: > > > Please remove our mail addres from this discussion. > > -- > > Joao Silveira > > HQ: Rua 28 de Janeiro 350 - B11 - 4400-335 Vila Nova de Gaia | > PORTUGAL > > Phone: +351 227 136 188 | Mobile: +351 912 386 351 > > Rio Office: Rua Pinheiro Guimar?ees, 150 - 22281-080 Rio de Janeiro > | BRAZIL > > Phone: +55 (21) 2538-2318 | Mobile: +55 (21) 99798-3523 > > logo > > > > > > > > > > ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC > members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal > account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". > From here, you can add or remove addresses. > -- ConnectingBytes GmbH - "www.kambach.net" | In der Steele 35, 40599 D?sseldorf, Germany | Telefon: 0800 / 900 2580 - 1, Fax: 0800 / 900 2580 - 2 | E-Mail: pkambach at kambach.net | Web: http://www.kambach.net | | Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Patrick Kambach | Amtsgericht D?sseldorf, HRB 60009 | Ust-IdNr.: DE815028832, Steuernummer: 106/5736/0037 From s.koetsier at dataprotectors.eu Fri Jun 13 17:20:59 2014 From: s.koetsier at dataprotectors.eu (Sebastiaan Koetsier | DataProtectors) Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:20:59 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <43E51234B17F0743AE73C2C6CE03225D0583B21B@TSEBCN12EW.itc.ads.t-systems.es> Message-ID: <2458465C-0EBA-4E92-8CBE-023DDECE7588@dataprotectors.eu> On 13 Jun 2014, at 17:18, Alfredo Sola wrote: ? SNIP ? > Have a nice weekend. > Where can i send a truckload of kudos? ;-) Cheers! -S From Timothy at tra.gov.om Sun Jun 15 10:14:31 2014 From: Timothy at tra.gov.om (Timothy Roy) Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 08:14:31 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <962B35EE7538DD448DF70940EE3756FA39940234@TRASRV09.TRA.COM> I also support this proposal 100% as I find very annoying to receive about 5 ticketing system responses when I reply to the mailing list, especially the ipv6 one seems to be where it happens the most. From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrei Sent: 13 June 2014 16:27 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] remove automated ticket system reply from member discussion list I 100% support this proposal. On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Lu Heng > wrote: Dear Colleagues: I understand some large cooperation might need ticket system to sort out their Emails, but it is really getting annoying every time you reply to the member mailing list you get 4-5 none-human responds. Should we contact these organizations and ask them to put a real human Email for this list? -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Andrei Kushnireuski Alfa Telecom s.r.o. REGID: cz.alfatelecom nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE phone: +420226020360 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stolpe at resilans.se Mon Jun 16 12:54:01 2014 From: stolpe at resilans.se (Daniel Stolpe) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 12:54:01 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> Message-ID: Well, this way, or even rather the APWG way. As long as we get rid of them, I am in favour. On Fri, 13 Jun 2014, Serge Radovcic wrote: > Hello all humans out there that are reading this mail, > > I want to say that I feel your pain as I too have to deal with all these > ticket system replies on a daily basis and would also like to tackle > this issue. > > I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first gaining > permission. > > Furthermore, the email addresses subscribed to the 'members-discuss' > mailing list are the ones LIRs configure in the LIR Portal. > > Unfortunately, sometimes emails sent to the members-discuss list are > forwarded internally to other addresses ? such as in the case of > ticketing systems or role emails ? and those are the ones sending the > automated replies. > > We can look for similar domains in the list of subscribers, but we might > not find an exact match with the sending email (which can be something > like 'noreply at example.com'). In that case, we can't be confident that we > are un-subscribing the correct address. > > In order to be successful, we'll have to contact the companies in > question and find out the chains of redirects that lead to the problem > in order to get them fixed/removed from the LIR Portal subscriptions. > > Over the past year or so, and due to our team's efforts, we reduced the > amount of automated ticket responses from more than well over 100 to > about 30 or so that we still get today. Which isn't too bad considering > some 3,015 email addresses are subscribed to this list, but I agree that > zero would be the ultimate goal! > > I am more than happy to go after those that are remaining (which I am > about to receive an updated list of after hitting "Send") to reduce this > amount even further if possible. > > And for those of you that are behind these ticket systems and are > actually reading this thread, can you provide an alternative email > address that will not produce an automated ticket response. Here is the > URL that will explain how you can do this: > > https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/member-support/info/membership-mailing-lists/subscribing-to-members-discuss > > Here's looking forward to a more human mailing list! > > Take care, > > Serge Radovcic > Chief Communications Officer > RIPE NCC > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > mvh Daniel Stolpe _________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe at resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 45 094 556741-1193 104 30 Stockholm From chrislist at de-punkt.de Mon Jun 16 13:51:09 2014 From: chrislist at de-punkt.de (Christopher Kunz) Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 13:51:09 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> Message-ID: <539EDA2D.40805@de-punkt.de> Hi, > > That's what I'd propose to do here as well: > > - propose to do it exactly that way ("who sends an autoreply gets > unsubscribed, and informed about the reasons why") > - wait 14 days for community feedback > - if nobody protests, go there. > +1 There's really no reason to have a ticket system subscribed to a mailing list. Best regards, --ck From sebastian.wiesinger at noris.net Tue Jun 17 14:51:45 2014 From: sebastian.wiesinger at noris.net (Sebastian Wiesinger) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:51:45 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> Message-ID: <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> * Gert Doering [2014-06-13 17:25]: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 04:58:20PM +0200, Serge Radovcic wrote: > > I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first gaining > > permission. > > We do this on the address-policy mailing list - whoever sends an autoreply > to a list post will be unsubscribed, and receive a notice why. > > This was proposed to the APWG list, and people agreed to it, so following > community consensus. > > That's what I'd propose to do here as well: > > - propose to do it exactly that way ("who sends an autoreply gets > unsubscribed, and informed about the reasons why") > - wait 14 days for community feedback > - if nobody protests, go there. +1 Regards Sebastian -- noris network AG - Thomas-Mann-Stra?e 16-20 - D-90471 N?rnberg Tel +49-911-9352-0 - Fax +49-911-9352-100 http://www.noris.de - The IT-Outsourcing Company Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Hansjochen Klenk - Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG N?rnberg HRB 17689 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 523 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From datos at tvt-datos.es Tue Jun 17 16:09:53 2014 From: datos at tvt-datos.es (Dpto. Datos Television Costa Blanca) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 16:09:53 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> Message-ID: <53A04C31.4090009@tvt-datos.es> +1 For this! El 17/06/2014 14:51, Sebastian Wiesinger escribi?: > * Gert Doering [2014-06-13 17:25]: >> Hi, >> >> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 04:58:20PM +0200, Serge Radovcic wrote: >>> I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first gaining >>> permission. >> We do this on the address-policy mailing list - whoever sends an autoreply >> to a list post will be unsubscribed, and receive a notice why. >> >> This was proposed to the APWG list, and people agreed to it, so following >> community consensus. >> >> That's what I'd propose to do here as well: >> >> - propose to do it exactly that way ("who sends an autoreply gets >> unsubscribed, and informed about the reasons why") >> - wait 14 days for community feedback >> - if nobody protests, go there. > +1 > > Regards > > Sebastian > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Daniel Baeza Centro de Observaci?n de Red Dpto. Internet y Telefon?a Television Costa Blanca S.L. Telf. 966190565 WEB: http://www.tvt.es Correo: datos at tvt-datos.es --AVISO LEGAL-- En cumplimiento de la Ley Org?nica 15/1999, de 13 de diciembre de protecci?n de datos de car?cter personal, se pone en conocimiento del destinatario del presente correo electr?nico, que los datos incluidos en este mensaje, est?n dirigidos exclusivamente al citado destinatario cuyo nombre aparece en el encabezamiento, por lo que si usted no es la persona interesada rogamos nos comunique el error de env?o y se abstenga de realizar copias del mensaje o de los datos contenidos en el mismo o remitirlo o entregarlo a otra persona, procediendo a borrarlo de inmediato. Asimismo le informamos que sus datos de correo han quedado incluidos en nuestra base de datos a fin de dirigirle, por este medio, comunicaciones comerciales, profesionales e informativas y que usted dispone de los derechos de acceso, rectificaci?n, cancelaci?n y especificaci?n de los mismos, derechos que podr? hacer efectivos dirigi?ndose a Televisi?n Costa Blanca, S.L., C/ San Policarpo 41 Bajo. C.P: 03181 Torrevieja (Alicante). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From graesser at telemaxx.de Tue Jun 17 16:40:33 2014 From: graesser at telemaxx.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Nicolas_Gr=E4sser?=) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:40:33 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> Message-ID: This is a really good idea, I would also prefer this solution. +1 * Gert Doering [2014-06-13 17:25]: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 04:58:20PM +0200, Serge Radovcic wrote: > > I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first > > gaining permission. > > We do this on the address-policy mailing list - whoever sends an > autoreply to a list post will be unsubscribed, and receive a notice why. > > This was proposed to the APWG list, and people agreed to it, so > following community consensus. > > That's what I'd propose to do here as well: > > - propose to do it exactly that way ("who sends an autoreply gets > unsubscribed, and informed about the reasons why") > - wait 14 days for community feedback > - if nobody protests, go there. From Timothy at tra.gov.om Wed Jun 18 04:29:27 2014 From: Timothy at tra.gov.om (Timothy Roy) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 02:29:27 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <53A04C31.4090009@tvt-datos.es> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> <53A04C31.4090009@tvt-datos.es> Message-ID: Make a +2 for this proposal Sent from my iPhone On Jun 17, 2014, at 18:07, "Dpto. Datos Television Costa Blanca" > wrote: +1 For this! El 17/06/2014 14:51, Sebastian Wiesinger escribi?: * Gert Doering [2014-06-13 17:25]: Hi, On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 04:58:20PM +0200, Serge Radovcic wrote: I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first gaining permission. We do this on the address-policy mailing list - whoever sends an autoreply to a list post will be unsubscribed, and receive a notice why. This was proposed to the APWG list, and people agreed to it, so following community consensus. That's what I'd propose to do here as well: - propose to do it exactly that way ("who sends an autoreply gets unsubscribed, and informed about the reasons why") - wait 14 days for community feedback - if nobody protests, go there. +1 Regards Sebastian ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Daniel Baeza Centro de Observaci?n de Red Dpto. Internet y Telefon?a Television Costa Blanca S.L. Telf. 966190565 WEB: http://www.tvt.es Correo: datos at tvt-datos.es --AVISO LEGAL-- En cumplimiento de la Ley Org?nica 15/1999, de 13 de diciembre de protecci?n de datos de car?cter personal, se pone en conocimiento del destinatario del presente correo electr?nico, que los datos incluidos en este mensaje, est?n dirigidos exclusivamente al citado destinatario cuyo nombre aparece en el encabezamiento, por lo que si usted no es la persona interesada rogamos nos comunique el error de env?o y se abstenga de realizar copias del mensaje o de los datos contenidos en el mismo o remitirlo o entregarlo a otra persona, procediendo a borrarlo de inmediato. Asimismo le informamos que sus datos de correo han quedado incluidos en nuestra base de datos a fin de dirigirle, por este medio, comunicaciones comerciales, profesionales e informativas y que usted dispone de los derechos de acceso, rectificaci?n, cancelaci?n y especificaci?n de los mismos, derechos que podr? hacer efectivos dirigi?ndose a Televisi?n Costa Blanca, S.L., C/ San Policarpo 41 Bajo. C.P: 03181 Torrevieja (Alicante). ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From Timothy at tra.gov.om Wed Jun 18 05:49:45 2014 From: Timothy at tra.gov.om (Timothy Roy) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 03:49:45 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> Message-ID: <962B35EE7538DD448DF70940EE3756FA39945A12@TRASRV09.TRA.COM> And this same policy should be applied to all the mailing lists for all the WG's as well. -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Nicolas Gr?sser Sent: 17 June 2014 18:41 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies This is a really good idea, I would also prefer this solution. +1 * Gert Doering [2014-06-13 17:25]: > Hi, > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 04:58:20PM +0200, Serge Radovcic wrote: > > I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first > > gaining permission. > > We do this on the address-policy mailing list - whoever sends an > autoreply to a list post will be unsubscribed, and receive a notice why. > > This was proposed to the APWG list, and people agreed to it, so > following community consensus. > > That's what I'd propose to do here as well: > > - propose to do it exactly that way ("who sends an autoreply gets > unsubscribed, and informed about the reasons why") > - wait 14 days for community feedback > - if nobody protests, go there. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From karl.kaiser at upc.at Wed Jun 18 14:16:46 2014 From: karl.kaiser at upc.at (Kaiser, Karl) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 12:16:46 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> <53A04C31.4090009@tvt-datos.es> Message-ID: <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E22AA@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> dear friends, as much fun as it might be, I guess approx. 99% of the subscribers of this mailing-list will not be interested in all these +1, +2, +215, -5322,... postings (at least I'm not). so please - if you feel the urge to tell somebody that you share his opinion: grab your phone, give him a call and schedule a meeting in a pub with him. there you can do as much hugging as you like, have a nice beer and make friends. if you want to un-subscripe from this list - just do it and don't tell the whole list about it. should you like comments about your feelings - make a selfie and post in on facebook. just my 2 cents cheers karl -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Timothy Roy Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2014 04:29 To: Dpto. Datos Television Costa Blanca Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies Make a +2 for this proposal Sent from my iPhone On Jun 17, 2014, at 18:07, "Dpto. Datos Television Costa Blanca" > wrote: +1 For this! El 17/06/2014 14:51, Sebastian Wiesinger escribi?: * Gert Doering [2014-06-13 17:25]: Hi, On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 04:58:20PM +0200, Serge Radovcic wrote: I would rather not un-subscribe email addresses without first gaining permission. We do this on the address-policy mailing list - whoever sends an autoreply to a list post will be unsubscribed, and receive a notice why. This was proposed to the APWG list, and people agreed to it, so following community consensus. That's what I'd propose to do here as well: - propose to do it exactly that way ("who sends an autoreply gets unsubscribed, and informed about the reasons why") - wait 14 days for community feedback - if nobody protests, go there. +1 Regards Sebastian From gert at space.net Wed Jun 18 14:28:01 2014 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 14:28:01 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E22AA@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> <53A04C31.4090009@tvt-datos.es> <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E22AA@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> Message-ID: <20140618122801.GU46558@Space.Net> Hi, On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 12:16:46PM +0000, Kaiser, Karl wrote: > dear friends, > as much fun as it might be, I guess approx. 99% of the subscribers of this mailing-list will not be interested in all these +1, +2, +215, -5322,... postings (at least I'm not). > so please - if you feel the urge to tell somebody that you share his opinion: grab your phone, give him a call and schedule a meeting in a pub with him. You're fundamentally misunderstanding how "consensus based decision making" works. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 811 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sebastian.wiesinger at noris.net Wed Jun 18 14:28:36 2014 From: sebastian.wiesinger at noris.net (Sebastian Wiesinger) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 14:28:36 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E22AA@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> <53A04C31.4090009@tvt-datos.es> <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E22AA@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> Message-ID: <20140618122836.GC4366@sol.office.noris.de> * Kaiser, Karl [2014-06-18 14:18]: > dear friends, > as much fun as it might be, I guess approx. 99% of the subscribers of this mailing-list will not be interested in all these +1, +2, +215, -5322,... postings (at least I'm not). > so please - if you feel the urge to tell somebody that you share his opinion: grab your phone, give him a call and schedule a meeting in a pub with him. > there you can do as much hugging as you like, have a nice beer and make friends. Hello, the +1, etc. is a common way to voice support for a proposal on the RIPE working group mailinglists (and others). Like a show of hands. People are expressing their support for the removal of ticket systems and other auto responders from this list. > if you want to un-subscripe from this list - just do it and don't tell the whole list about it. No, we want the RIPE NCC to unsubscribe others from this list. On the other hand if you're bothered by mails from this list feel free to do so? > just my 2 cents +1 Regards Sebastian -- noris network AG - Thomas-Mann-Stra?e 16-20 - D-90471 N?rnberg Tel +49-911-9352-0 - Fax +49-911-9352-100 http://www.noris.de - The IT-Outsourcing Company Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Hansjochen Klenk - Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG N?rnberg HRB 17689 From karl.kaiser at upc.at Wed Jun 18 15:02:02 2014 From: karl.kaiser at upc.at (Kaiser, Karl) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 13:02:02 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <20140618122836.GC4366@sol.office.noris.de> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> <53A04C31.4090009@tvt-datos.es> <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E22AA@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> <20140618122836.GC4366@sol.office.noris.de> Message-ID: <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E23AF@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> hi, do you have an average count of members on this mailing-list? should only 10% of these share your opinion that this is necessary to post their +1 or -1 to each and every proposal you might have a minor issue with your inbox. and: I think you might survive deleting the 2 or 3 automated mails you receive after posting on the list yourself. voting for others to get removed from a mailing-list is NOT an option (as long as they stay inside some common-sense boundaries). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense else some day it might be your removal, others vote on. hailing our first world problems, karl -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Sebastian Wiesinger Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2014 14:29 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies * Kaiser, Karl [2014-06-18 14:18]: > dear friends, > as much fun as it might be, I guess approx. 99% of the subscribers of this mailing-list will not be interested in all these +1, +2, +215, -5322,... postings (at least I'm not). > so please - if you feel the urge to tell somebody that you share his opinion: grab your phone, give him a call and schedule a meeting in a pub with him. > there you can do as much hugging as you like, have a nice beer and make friends. Hello, the +1, etc. is a common way to voice support for a proposal on the RIPE working group mailinglists (and others). Like a show of hands. People are expressing their support for the removal of ticket systems and other auto responders from this list. > if you want to un-subscripe from this list - just do it and don't tell the whole list about it. No, we want the RIPE NCC to unsubscribe others from this list. On the other hand if you're bothered by mails from this list feel free to do so? > just my 2 cents +1 Regards Sebastian -- noris network AG - Thomas-Mann-Stra?e 16-20 - D-90471 N?rnberg Tel +49-911-9352-0 - Fax +49-911-9352-100 http://www.noris.de - The IT-Outsourcing Company Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Hansjochen Klenk - Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG N?rnberg HRB 17689 ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ----- eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG ?berpr?ft - www.avg.de Version: 10.0.1432 / Virendatenbank: 3955/7197 - Ausgabedatum: 18.06.2014 From dominik at clouvider.co.uk Wed Jun 18 15:07:26 2014 From: dominik at clouvider.co.uk (Dominik Nowacki) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 13:07:26 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E23AF@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> <53A04C31.4090009@tvt-datos.es> <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E22AA@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> <20140618122836.GC4366@sol.office.noris.de> <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E23AF@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> Message-ID: <8cba9260289941efb9c94b1e0de27a29@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Ok, I think we all go too far on this now. There is no point to argue. Serge Radovic, CCO of RIPE already said he will go after non-humans. Please refer to his message (Fri 13/06/2014 15:58 GMT). Karl, for me, it is annoying to get 3-5 auto responses when posting to mailing list. Especially when you send a few messages in a day (which does not happen often - I know). Moreover, I don't think anyone votes for removing people of the mailing list, they, or at least I voted to introduce a mailing list policy that prevents subscribing non-humans email addresses to the mailing list. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Kaiser, Karl Sent: 18 June 2014 14:02 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies hi, do you have an average count of members on this mailing-list? should only 10% of these share your opinion that this is necessary to post their +1 or -1 to each and every proposal you might have a minor issue with your inbox. and: I think you might survive deleting the 2 or 3 automated mails you receive after posting on the list yourself. voting for others to get removed from a mailing-list is NOT an option (as long as they stay inside some common-sense boundaries). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense else some day it might be your removal, others vote on. hailing our first world problems, karl -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Sebastian Wiesinger Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2014 14:29 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies * Kaiser, Karl [2014-06-18 14:18]: > dear friends, > as much fun as it might be, I guess approx. 99% of the subscribers of this mailing-list will not be interested in all these +1, +2, +215, -5322,... postings (at least I'm not). > so please - if you feel the urge to tell somebody that you share his opinion: grab your phone, give him a call and schedule a meeting in a pub with him. > there you can do as much hugging as you like, have a nice beer and make friends. Hello, the +1, etc. is a common way to voice support for a proposal on the RIPE working group mailinglists (and others). Like a show of hands. People are expressing their support for the removal of ticket systems and other auto responders from this list. > if you want to un-subscripe from this list - just do it and don't tell the whole list about it. No, we want the RIPE NCC to unsubscribe others from this list. On the other hand if you're bothered by mails from this list feel free to do so? > just my 2 cents +1 Regards Sebastian -- noris network AG - Thomas-Mann-Stra?e 16-20 - D-90471 N?rnberg Tel +49-911-9352-0 - Fax +49-911-9352-100 http://www.noris.de - The IT-Outsourcing Company Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Hansjochen Klenk - Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG N?rnberg HRB 17689 ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ----- eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG ?berpr?ft - www.avg.de Version: 10.0.1432 / Virendatenbank: 3955/7197 - Ausgabedatum: 18.06.2014 ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From gert at space.net Wed Jun 18 15:07:35 2014 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 15:07:35 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E23AF@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> <53A04C31.4090009@tvt-datos.es> <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E22AA@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> <20140618122836.GC4366@sol.office.noris.de> <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E23AF@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> Message-ID: <20140618130735.GY46558@Space.Net> Hi, On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 01:02:02PM +0000, Kaiser, Karl wrote: > do you have an average count of members on this mailing-list? > should only 10% of these share your opinion that this is necessary to post their +1 or -1 to each and every proposal you might have a minor issue with your inbox. > and: I think you might survive deleting the 2 or 3 automated mails you receive after posting on the list yourself. > voting for others to get removed from a mailing-list is NOT an option (as long as they stay inside some common-sense boundaries). > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense > else some day it might be your removal, others vote on. > hailing our first world problems, This is not a matter of "surviving" something - it's a matter of agreeing to a common list netiquette, which could be transcribed as "I will not send autoreplies to the list, but if I do, you can remove me from the list, as I'm violating list policy". I see no reason why everybody who is actively trying to participate on the list has to be tolerant with the dimwits who can't get their mail systems to behave properly. Tolerance works both ways: if you want to join a club, play by it's rules, and "not send autoreplies to mailing lists" is a fairly fundamental one. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 811 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dominik at clouvider.co.uk Wed Jun 18 15:11:15 2014 From: dominik at clouvider.co.uk (Dominik Nowacki) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 13:11:15 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <8cba9260289941efb9c94b1e0de27a29@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> <53A04C31.4090009@tvt-datos.es> <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E22AA@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> <20140618122836.GC4366@sol.office.noris.de> <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E23AF@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> <8cba9260289941efb9c94b1e0de27a29@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <9a01cc03c8724efba11ac61a07f78d4a@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Also, I am positively surprised to see just one non-human response after today's post - so things are getting better. Thank you. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Dominik Nowacki Sent: 18 June 2014 14:07 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies Ok, I think we all go too far on this now. There is no point to argue. Serge Radovic, CCO of RIPE already said he will go after non-humans. Please refer to his message (Fri 13/06/2014 15:58 GMT). Karl, for me, it is annoying to get 3-5 auto responses when posting to mailing list. Especially when you send a few messages in a day (which does not happen often - I know). Moreover, I don't think anyone votes for removing people of the mailing list, they, or at least I voted to introduce a mailing list policy that prevents subscribing non-humans email addresses to the mailing list. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Kaiser, Karl Sent: 18 June 2014 14:02 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies hi, do you have an average count of members on this mailing-list? should only 10% of these share your opinion that this is necessary to post their +1 or -1 to each and every proposal you might have a minor issue with your inbox. and: I think you might survive deleting the 2 or 3 automated mails you receive after posting on the list yourself. voting for others to get removed from a mailing-list is NOT an option (as long as they stay inside some common-sense boundaries). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense else some day it might be your removal, others vote on. hailing our first world problems, karl -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Sebastian Wiesinger Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Juni 2014 14:29 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies * Kaiser, Karl [2014-06-18 14:18]: > dear friends, > as much fun as it might be, I guess approx. 99% of the subscribers of this mailing-list will not be interested in all these +1, +2, +215, -5322,... postings (at least I'm not). > so please - if you feel the urge to tell somebody that you share his opinion: grab your phone, give him a call and schedule a meeting in a pub with him. > there you can do as much hugging as you like, have a nice beer and make friends. Hello, the +1, etc. is a common way to voice support for a proposal on the RIPE working group mailinglists (and others). Like a show of hands. People are expressing their support for the removal of ticket systems and other auto responders from this list. > if you want to un-subscripe from this list - just do it and don't tell the whole list about it. No, we want the RIPE NCC to unsubscribe others from this list. On the other hand if you're bothered by mails from this list feel free to do so? > just my 2 cents +1 Regards Sebastian -- noris network AG - Thomas-Mann-Stra?e 16-20 - D-90471 N?rnberg Tel +49-911-9352-0 - Fax +49-911-9352-100 http://www.noris.de - The IT-Outsourcing Company Vorstand: Ingo Kraupa (Vorsitzender), Joachim Astel, Hansjochen Klenk - Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Stefan Schnabel - AG N?rnberg HRB 17689 ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ----- eMail ist virenfrei. Von AVG ?berpr?ft - www.avg.de Version: 10.0.1432 / Virendatenbank: 3955/7197 - Ausgabedatum: 18.06.2014 ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From andrea.cocito at ifom.eu Wed Jun 18 15:42:15 2014 From: andrea.cocito at ifom.eu (Andrea Cocito) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 15:42:15 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Dealing with automated ticket system replies In-Reply-To: <9a01cc03c8724efba11ac61a07f78d4a@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> References: <6BAE99BE-1A3A-4952-BC96-F7CC31BDCF30@ifom.eu> <539B118C.5030201@ripe.net> <20140613152443.GY46558@Space.Net> <20140617125144.GC5794@sol.office.noris.de> <53A04C31.4090009@tvt-datos.es> <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E22AA@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> <20140618122836.GC4366@sol.office.noris.de> <538099D09579EB4692304F682AF9E7C3164E23AF@NLAMSPEXMB011.upcit.ds.upc.biz> <8cba9260289941efb9c94b1e0de27a29@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> <9a01cc03c8724efba11ac61a07f78d4a@AM3PR06MB180.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: <971CEE16-F702-4345-879C-903A2B9FBC31@ifom.eu> On Jun 18, 2014, at 3:11 PM, Dominik Nowacki wrote: > Also, I am positively surprised to see just one non-human response after today's post - so things are getting better. Thank you. > > With Kind Regards, > Dominik Nowacki I subscribe the "thank you" part, for the "things are getting better" I would wait mid-august with the "vacation" storm :) Point is not only non-humans subscribed, it is also (and mostly, IMO) with broken vacation/autoreply systems. A. From nigel at titley.com Tue Jun 24 12:01:04 2014 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:01:04 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> Message-ID: <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> On 22/05/14 13:19, _Network Operation Center (NOC) wrote: > > Hello everybody, > > as a result of last weeks AGM and an intense discussion on the voting > procedure I would like to request the Executive Board to put forward a > resolution for the next General Meeting to abandon paper ballot voting. > > Dear Ulf, all, Thank you for your mail on this. We have just had our first Executive Board meeting since the General Meeting and we brought this up for discussion. We would like to hear more feedback from the membership on these voting issues. Do members think there is a case for removing the option to vote with paper ballot and by proxy? On a slightly different issue, we have received comments asking that we open electronic voting before the General Meeting. However, the board would prefer that members cast their vote after the presentations and discussions on each issue so they will be fully informed before voting. We also feel that the current electronic voting window is sufficient to allow all members in the service region to cast their votes (some calculations show that if were to hold a General meeting in the easternmost timezone in the region then the westernmost zone (Iceland) would still have 2 hours of working time to cast their vote). However, if members believe that the voting window should be extended we would also like to hear from you. The Executive Board meets again in September, and we would appreciate hearing from the membership on these matters before we have our discussions there. Best regards, Nigel Titley RIPE NCC Executive Board Chairman -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alfredo at solucionesdinamicas.net Tue Jun 24 12:09:23 2014 From: alfredo at solucionesdinamicas.net (Alfredo Sola) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:09:23 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> Message-ID: <431D172A-2A05-471B-B35A-C337582164A6@solucionesdinamicas.net> Hi Nigel and colleagues, > We would like to hear more feedback from the membership on these voting > issues. Do members think there is a case for removing the option to vote > with paper ballot and by proxy? Yes and no. As a highly technical community, it is natural for us to call paper ballots a thing of the past. We all know that proper electronic procedures are not as safe but safer than paper ballots, not to mention faster, more eco-friendly, and more convenient. However as for proxy voting is an entirely different issue. I think this is such a great part of the voting process at RIPE that I'm not even sure if I misunderstood what is being proposed for removing. I understand that proxy voting allows people to delegate their votes, which is a great thing: Here, I don't have the (time|expertise|whatever) to decide on my vote, but I trust the judgement of this other colleage; I'll give him my vote trusting he will use it well. This allows for higher and more qualified participation, and it would be a step back to lose it. On a different topic, I'll proceed now to evaluate RIPE's efforts to clean the list of bots... :) -- Alfredo Sola http://www.solucionesdinamicas.net/ From sander at steffann.nl Tue Jun 24 12:09:39 2014 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:09:39 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> Message-ID: <6D17B44F-F785-4F79-AECC-CF145B2E407D@steffann.nl> Hi Nigel, I wouldn't mind switching to only electronic voting, but I don't have a strong preference. I do agree with the board that voting should only start after the presentations. I don't see a benefit in allowing voting by people not in posession of all the data. The length of the voting window seems good to me, but I'll leave that to the people more affected by it than I am as I am usually at the meeting itself. I haven't missed a RIPE meeting in 10 years ;) Met vriendelijke groet, Sander Steffann -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hph at oslo.net Tue Jun 24 12:15:50 2014 From: hph at oslo.net (Hans Petter Holen) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:15:50 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <431D172A-2A05-471B-B35A-C337582164A6@solucionesdinamicas.net> References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> <431D172A-2A05-471B-B35A-C337582164A6@solucionesdinamicas.net> Message-ID: <53A94FD6.3060808@oslo.net> First, I am all in favour of goiing fully electronic. On 24.06.14 11:09, Alfredo Sola wrote: > I understand that proxy voting allows people to delegate their votes, which is a great thing: Here, I don't have the (time|expertise|whatever) to decide on my vote, but I trust the judgement of this other colleage; I'll give him my vote trusting he will use it well. This allows for higher and more qualified participation, and it would be a step back to lose it. I think proxy voting in the past was used in two cases, one is the one you described, but more commonly to be able to vote if you are not present. The last one is easily replaced by electronic voting. The other could be handled by electronic voting - and a request to the trusted collegue; please tell me who to vote for. Or by a delegation/proxy mechanism in the voting system. You could do it today indirectly by registering the person you delegate to in the LIR portal and let him/her sign up to vote for that LIR too. ( I did this at the last election as the company I work for currently operates two LIRs.) Sincerely, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Hans Petter Holen* Mobile+47 45 06 60 54 | Switchboard +47 46 40 40 00 |*Online Business Card* Visma, Karenslyst All? 56, 0277 Oslo|http://www.visma.com |Find us on Facebook ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Tue Jun 24 12:23:27 2014 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 18:23:27 +0800 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A94FD6.3060808@oslo.net> References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> <431D172A-2A05-471B-B35A-C337582164A6@solucionesdinamicas.net> <53A94FD6.3060808@oslo.net> Message-ID: Emm Paper voting is fun...and if I am honest, I enjoyed the voting process on paper. otherwise it looks like an online questionnaire... But of course it can be a thing of the past, just like many other things( paper magazine for example, computer world just had its last paper issue) > On 2014?6?24?, at ??6:15, Hans Petter Holen wrote: > > First, > I am all in favour of goiing fully electronic. > >> On 24.06.14 11:09, Alfredo Sola wrote: >> I understand that proxy voting allows people to delegate their votes, which is a great thing: Here, I don't have the (time|expertise|whatever) to decide on my vote, but I trust the judgement of this other colleage; I'll give him my vote trusting he will use it well. This allows for higher and more qualified participation, and it would be a step back to lose it. > I think proxy voting in the past was used in two cases, one is the one you described, but more commonly to be able to vote if you are not present. > > The last one is easily replaced by electronic voting. > The other could be handled by electronic voting - and a request to the trusted collegue; please tell me who to vote for. > > Or by a delegation/proxy mechanism in the voting system. > You could do it today indirectly by registering the person you delegate to in the LIR portal and let him/her sign up to vote for that LIR too. ( I did this at the last election as the company I work for currently operates two LIRs.) > Sincerely, > > Hans Petter Holen > Mobile +47 45 06 60 54 | Switchboard +47 46 40 40 00 | Online Business Card > Visma, Karenslyst All? 56, 0277 Oslo | http://www.visma.com | Find us on Facebook > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk Tue Jun 24 12:25:44 2014 From: brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk (Brandon Butterworth) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:25:44 +0100 (BST) Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association Message-ID: <201406241025.LAA07760@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> > We also feel that the current electronic voting window is sufficient to > allow all members in the service region to cast their votes (some > calculations show that if were to hold a General meeting in the easternmost > timezone in the region then the westernmost zone (Iceland) would still have > 2 hours of working time to cast their vote). However, if members > believe that the voting window should be extended we would > also like to hear from you. That sounds as tricky as trying to not miss the end of an ebay item I'm usually to distracted or in meetings and stuff. brandon From nick at netability.ie Tue Jun 24 13:06:47 2014 From: nick at netability.ie (Nick Hilliard) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:06:47 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> Message-ID: <53A95BC7.3000101@netability.ie> On 24/06/2014 11:01, Nigel Titley wrote: > We would like to hear more feedback from the membership on these voting > issues. Do members think there is a case for removing the option to vote > with paper ballot and by proxy? As it's expired from my mailbox, Ulf's original email is here: > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2014-May/001476.html e-voting is demonstrably faster and more efficient than paper ballots, but it's not possible to guarantee voter anonymity. The bottom line is that if you log into an online evoting system, you need to trust that the system will not associate your authentication token with your ballot. All we can do is say that the RIPE NCC trusts BigPulse, and also expects it's membership to do so. Regarding counting, there are several software packages which can assist with counting. I've used OpenSTV and it works quite nicely. I assume that as there are both e-votes and paper votes, that BigPulse's system also assists with this and that therefore the problem that Ulf identified maybe isn't as big as he perceives it to be. No doubt BigPulse are a reputable company, but on principal I have problems with e-voting relating to privacy and verifiable trust. On balance, I'm not convinced that Ulf's suggestion fixes more problems than it creates, and consequently I do not support it. Nick From kurtis at netnod.se Tue Jun 24 13:21:54 2014 From: kurtis at netnod.se (Kurt Erik Lindqvist) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:21:54 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> Message-ID: On 24 jun 2014, at 12:01, Nigel Titley wrote: > On 22/05/14 13:19, _Network Operation Center (NOC) wrote: >> Hello everybody, >> >> as a result of last weeks AGM and an intense discussion on the voting procedure I would like to request the Executive Board to put forward a resolution for the next General Meeting to abandon paper ballot voting. >> >> > > Dear Ulf, all, > > Thank you for your mail on this. We have just had our first Executive > Board meeting since the General Meeting and we brought this up for > discussion. > > We would like to hear more feedback from the membership on these voting > issues. Do members think there is a case for removing the option to vote > with paper ballot and by proxy? I agree with this. > On a slightly different issue, we have received comments asking that we open electronic > voting before the General Meeting. However, the board would prefer that > members cast their vote after the presentations and discussions on each > issue so they will be fully informed before voting. > > We also feel that the current electronic voting window is sufficient to > allow all members in the service region to cast their votes (some > calculations show that if were to hold a General meeting in the easternmost > timezone in the region then the westernmost zone (Iceland) would still have > 2 hours of working time to cast their vote). However, if members > believe that the voting window should be extended we would > also like to hear from you. I also prefer to open the voting window also only once all presentations and discussions have been had. Best regards, - kurtis - --- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO kurtis at netnod.se, Direct: +46-8-562 860 11, Switch: +46-8-562 860 00 Franz?ngatan 5 | SE-112 51 Stockholm | Sweden -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 203 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From stolpe at resilans.se Tue Jun 24 16:47:21 2014 From: stolpe at resilans.se (Daniel Stolpe) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:47:21 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A95BC7.3000101@netability.ie> References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> <53A95BC7.3000101@netability.ie> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Jun 2014, Nick Hilliard wrote: > On 24/06/2014 11:01, Nigel Titley wrote: >> We would like to hear more feedback from the membership on these voting >> issues. Do members think there is a case for removing the option to vote >> with paper ballot and by proxy? > > As it's expired from my mailbox, Ulf's original email is here: > >> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2014-May/001476.html > > e-voting is demonstrably faster and more efficient than paper ballots, but > it's not possible to guarantee voter anonymity. The bottom line is that if > you log into an online evoting system, you need to trust that the system > will not associate your authentication token with your ballot. All we can > do is say that the RIPE NCC trusts BigPulse, and also expects it's > membership to do so. > > Regarding counting, there are several software packages which can assist > with counting. I've used OpenSTV and it works quite nicely. I assume that > as there are both e-votes and paper votes, that BigPulse's system also > assists with this and that therefore the problem that Ulf identified maybe > isn't as big as he perceives it to be. > > No doubt BigPulse are a reputable company, but on principal I have problems > with e-voting relating to privacy and verifiable trust. On balance, I'm > not convinced that Ulf's suggestion fixes more problems than it creates, > and consequently I do not support it. > > Nick Well said Nick. One may think that paper ballots are low tech and old fashioned but I still see a point concerning anonymity. As far as I remember from what Fergal sais, all the paper ballots are converted to e-votes anyway. Regards, Daniel _________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe at resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 45 094 556741-1193 104 30 Stockholm From noc at green.ch Tue Jun 24 16:50:01 2014 From: noc at green.ch (_Network Operation Center (NOC)) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:50:01 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <431D172A-2A05-471B-B35A-C337582164A6@solucionesdinamicas.net> References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> <431D172A-2A05-471B-B35A-C337582164A6@solucionesdinamicas.net> Message-ID: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260984D405@EX01.green-connection.ch> Alfredo, Nigel, all, there is a slight misunderstanding/misrepresentation here. My request was NOT about removing the possibility to vote by proxy. My original comment was: Proxy Votes: No paper necessary anymore-register for electronic voting and forward the registration confirmation (which then should already contain the link to access the poll) to your proxy. When you register for electronic voting you receive an email with a personalised link to the poll. What you do with that link (vulgo: if you use it yourself, or if you forward it to somebody else) should entirely be left up to the voter. Best regards, Ulf Kieber -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Alfredo Sola Sent: Dienstag, 24. Juni 2014 12:09 To: Nigel Titley Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association Hi Nigel and colleagues, > We would like to hear more feedback from the membership on these > voting issues. Do members think there is a case for removing the > option to vote with paper ballot and by proxy? Yes and no. As a highly technical community, it is natural for us to call paper ballots a thing of the past. We all know that proper electronic procedures are not as safe but safer than paper ballots, not to mention faster, more eco-friendly, and more convenient. However as for proxy voting is an entirely different issue. I think this is such a great part of the voting process at RIPE that I'm not even sure if I misunderstood what is being proposed for removing. I understand that proxy voting allows people to delegate their votes, which is a great thing: Here, I don't have the (time|expertise|whatever) to decide on my vote, but I trust the judgement of this other colleage; I'll give him my vote trusting he will use it well. This allows for higher and more qualified participation, and it would be a step back to lose it. On a different topic, I'll proceed now to evaluate RIPE's efforts to clean the list of bots... :) -- Alfredo Sola http://www.solucionesdinamicas.net/ ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From nigel at titley.com Tue Jun 24 17:03:05 2014 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:03:05 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> <53A95BC7.3000101@netability.ie> Message-ID: <53A99329.6020403@titley.com> On 24/06/14 15:47, Daniel Stolpe wrote: > > Well said Nick. One may think that paper ballots are low tech and old > fashioned but I still see a point concerning anonymity. Just as a point of fact, the RIPE NCC doesn't get to see who voted or what they voted (and I'm sure you aren't suggesting this). If you outsource anything there is always a degree of trust involved. We looked at the costs of doing this in-house and it just wasn't economical. In the end we tried to take a middle road of allowing electronic voting to expand the franchise as far as possible, but retaining paper balloting and proxies for those really concerned about privacy. > > As far as I remember from what Fergal sais, all the paper ballots are > converted to e-votes anyway. Yes, indeed, but there is no privacy lost in the process. All the best Nigel From brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk Tue Jun 24 17:15:05 2014 From: brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk (Brandon Butterworth) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:15:05 +0100 (BST) Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association Message-ID: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> > On Tue, 24 Jun 2014, Nick Hilliard wrote: > No doubt BigPulse are a reputable company No idea but I don't trust any company that can't also include a plain text body, instead requiring the participant to trust more easily phishable vote email brandon From nick at netability.ie Tue Jun 24 17:34:11 2014 From: nick at netability.ie (Nick Hilliard) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:34:11 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> On 24/06/2014 16:15, Brandon Butterworth wrote: > No idea but I don't trust any company that can't > also include a plain text body, instead requiring the > participant to trust more easily phishable vote email that bit doesn't concern me, tbh. They make their business run on trust, so if their trust breaks down, so does their business model. So probably they are trustworthy. Thing is, I understand the paper voting model. It goes like this: - get ballot paper, put mark on paper, get paper collected, lock ballot box in room, count votes according to prescribed formula in the presence of other people, get result. At any stage, people can look in on the process and inspect what's happening. The evoting model goes like this: - identify yourself using email, get authentication token, log on to web site, click some buttons, , get result. No doubt the magic is the right magic, but I don't understand it. I'm just more comfortable with something I understand, both at each point along the way and in its entirety. It's not a problem that it's really low tech. Sometimes that's good if it means we can all understand how it works. Nick From brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk Tue Jun 24 17:39:41 2014 From: brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk (Brandon Butterworth) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:39:41 +0100 (BST) Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association Message-ID: <201406241539.QAA16515@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> > that bit doesn't concern me, tbh. They make their business run on trust, > so if their trust breaks down, so does their business model. So probably > they are trustworthy. You're right but the conclusion doesn't follow. Plenty of banks etc are totally not trustworthy but stay in business by various means. Never underestimate the stupidity of the general public... > No doubt the magic is the right magic, but I don't understand it. I'm just > more comfortable with something I understand, both at each point along the > way and in its entirety. It's not a problem that it's really low tech. > Sometimes that's good if it means we can all understand how it works. I don't have a problem with it, the mental image is the paper process done by xkcd people inside a machine and we all trust xkcd so it must be trustworthy brandon From nick at netability.ie Tue Jun 24 17:44:22 2014 From: nick at netability.ie (Nick Hilliard) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:44:22 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <201406241539.QAA16515@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> References: <201406241539.QAA16515@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <53A99CD6.80206@netability.ie> On 24/06/2014 16:39, Brandon Butterworth wrote: > I don't have a problem with it, the mental image is the paper > process done by xkcd people inside a machine and we all trust xkcd > so it must be trustworthy {{citation needed}} From sander at steffann.nl Tue Jun 24 17:47:11 2014 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 17:47:11 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> Message-ID: <5646876B-F6CE-4258-AE27-CCFA34556222@steffann.nl> Hi Nick, Op 24 jun. 2014, om 17:34 heeft Nick Hilliard het volgende geschreven: > Thing is, I understand the paper voting model. It goes like this: > > - get ballot paper, put mark on paper, get paper collected, lock ballot box > in room, count votes according to prescribed formula in the presence of > other people, get result. > > At any stage, people can look in on the process and inspect what's happening. > > The evoting model goes like this: > > - identify yourself using email, get authentication token, log on to web > site, click some buttons, , get result. To be honest the current paper voting model probably goes like this: - get ballot paper, put mark on paper, get paper collected, lock ballot box in room, clicking on some buttons in the presence of other people, , get result. So I am not sure how much abandoning the paper ballots would change in terms of understanding the whole process. Keeping the paper ballots does add an extra layer of anonymity for the people in the room even if BigPulse messes up (I do hope they generate random auth tokens and don't just MD5 the membership number or the LIR RegID like https://medium.com/@vijayp/of-taxis-and-rainbows-f6bc289679a1). I personally wouldn't mind if we go to all-electronic voting. Cheers, Sander From rob.golding at astutium.com Tue Jun 24 17:38:11 2014 From: rob.golding at astutium.com (rob.golding at astutium.com) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 15:38:11 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> Message-ID: I have no problem with paper (although a the RIPE region is quite large, that does involve it's own problems) or e-voting as such - I'll use whichever is most convenient to me. What I do require though, is enough time to cast my vote and that is the major failing of the current system. Rob From noc at green.ch Tue Jun 24 18:23:04 2014 From: noc at green.ch (_Network Operation Center (NOC)) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 16:23:04 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A95BC7.3000101@netability.ie> References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> <53A95BC7.3000101@netability.ie> Message-ID: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260984D4E2@EX01.green-connection.ch> Nick, all talk to the NCC, it's exactly that: Counting paper ballots: This is a manual process by which the cast paper ballots get entered into the same electronic voting system that the electronically cast votes end up in. With 5 resolutions plus 6 candidates times 119 paper ballots and a 4 (or more) eyes verification this takes hours of possibly error-prone monotony. My goal here is educated decision making and ensuring a wide democratic base. Consequently I don't think voting should be opened before the end of a General Meeting and I'd even want people to have a bit more time to evaluate available choices, and maybe sleep over them. But there are still provisions in the Articles that would allow passing resolutions (not very anonymously, btw.) by acclamation or by show of hands, excluding everybody not on site, and I don't want that to happen during a GM I was hindered to attend for whatever reason. Remember, the Voting Report states " 1,140 members registered to vote, and 608 members cast their ballots". Only 119 of those were paper ballots. The membership has increased significantly. This will very likely continue for quite some years, so the ratio will probably become more biased. I have no strong feelings about the duration of the voting period. 24 hours seems enough for me, but YMMV. Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Ulf Kieber Head of NOC green.ch AG -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Nick Hilliard Sent: Dienstag, 24. Juni 2014 13:07 To: Nigel Titley; members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association On 24/06/2014 11:01, Nigel Titley wrote: > We would like to hear more feedback from the membership on these > voting issues. Do members think there is a case for removing the > option to vote with paper ballot and by proxy? As it's expired from my mailbox, Ulf's original email is here: > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/2014-May/001476 > .html e-voting is demonstrably faster and more efficient than paper ballots, but it's not possible to guarantee voter anonymity. The bottom line is that if you log into an online evoting system, you need to trust that the system will not associate your authentication token with your ballot. All we can do is say that the RIPE NCC trusts BigPulse, and also expects it's membership to do so. Regarding counting, there are several software packages which can assist with counting. I've used OpenSTV and it works quite nicely. I assume that as there are both e-votes and paper votes, that BigPulse's system also assists with this and that therefore the problem that Ulf identified maybe isn't as big as he perceives it to be. No doubt BigPulse are a reputable company, but on principal I have problems with e-voting relating to privacy and verifiable trust. On balance, I'm not convinced that Ulf's suggestion fixes more problems than it creates, and consequently I do not support it. Nick ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From nigel at titley.com Tue Jun 24 22:24:58 2014 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 21:24:58 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> Message-ID: <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> On 24/06/14 16:38, rob.golding at astutium.com wrote: > I have no problem with paper (although a the RIPE region is quite large, > that does involve it's own problems) or e-voting as such - I'll use > whichever is most convenient to me. > > What I do require though, is enough time to cast my vote and that is the > major failing of the current system. Well, this is one thing we were asking about. We currently allow a voting window of 16 hours (which is an improvement on the original 15 mins). How much time do you think would be reasonable? Nigel From andrea.cocito at ifom.eu Tue Jun 24 23:17:13 2014 From: andrea.cocito at ifom.eu (Andrea Cocito) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 23:17:13 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> Message-ID: <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu> > On 24/giu/2014, at 22:24, Nigel Titley wrote: > > Well, this is one thing we were asking about. We currently allow a > voting window of 16 hours (which is an improvement on the original 15 > mins). How much time do you think would be reasonable? 3 days? A. From dominik at clouvider.co.uk Tue Jun 24 23:23:44 2014 From: dominik at clouvider.co.uk (Dominik Nowacki) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 21:23:44 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu> Message-ID: I agree. 2-3 days should be sufficient for everyone in all time zones to vote. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. 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If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrea Cocito Sent: 24 June 2014 22:17 To: Nigel Titley Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association > On 24/giu/2014, at 22:24, Nigel Titley wrote: > > Well, this is one thing we were asking about. We currently allow a > voting window of 16 hours (which is an improvement on the original 15 > mins). How much time do you think would be reasonable? 3 days? A. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From rob.golding at astutium.com Wed Jun 25 02:31:08 2014 From: rob.golding at astutium.com (Rob Golding) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 01:31:08 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu> Message-ID: <016b01cf900c$c358fcb0$4a0af610$@golding@astutium.com> > Well, this is one thing we were asking about. We currently allow a > voting window of 16 hours (which is an improvement on the original 15 > mins). How much time do you think would be reasonable? I'd be happy with 2 days/48-hours Rob From poty at iiat.ru Wed Jun 25 08:19:27 2014 From: poty at iiat.ru (poty at iiat.ru) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:19:27 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles ofAssociation References: <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> Message-ID: <07824FF8A4954B438144406BC0D91D031B0E85@CMAIL.office.iiat> Hello, Most (if not all) information about voting's questions is available prior to the voting beginning, so the only thing that somebody has to "sleep with" is the discussion at the meeting itself. I do not think it takes a lot of time to do so and prefer the voting results to be announced during the meeting course. So I'll be good with 24-36 hours (taking into account that Friday is only half day packed). Regards, Vladislav -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Nigel Titley Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 12:25 AM To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles ofAssociation On 24/06/14 16:38, rob.golding at astutium.com wrote: > I have no problem with paper (although a the RIPE region is quite > large, that does involve it's own problems) or e-voting as such - I'll > use whichever is most convenient to me. > > What I do require though, is enough time to cast my vote and that is > the major failing of the current system. Well, this is one thing we were asking about. We currently allow a voting window of 16 hours (which is an improvement on the original 15 mins). How much time do you think would be reasonable? Nigel ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From nigel at titley.com Wed Jun 25 13:02:31 2014 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:02:31 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <016b01cf900c$c358fcb0$4a0af610$@golding@astutium.com> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu> <016b01cf900c$c358fcb0$4a0af610$@golding@astutium.com> Message-ID: <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> On 25/06/14 01:31, Rob Golding wrote: >> Well, this is one thing we were asking about. We currently allow a >> voting window of 16 hours (which is an improvement on the original 15 >> mins). How much time do you think would be reasonable? > I'd be happy with 2 days/48-hours > This would mean that the results wouldn't be available during the meeting (as we normally hold the members' meeting on Wednesday evening). If this isn't a problem then fine, but we've had indications that people like to know the result during the meeting. Nigel From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Wed Jun 25 13:08:44 2014 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:08:44 +0800 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu> <016b01cf900c$c358fcb0$4a0af610$@golding@astutium.com> <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> Message-ID: Hi I would like to know it in the meeting--discussing the results with friends in person is really part of the meeting for me, just a common. This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. > On 2014?6?25?, at ??7:02, Nigel Titley wrote: > > > On 25/06/14 01:31, Rob Golding wrote: >>> Well, this is one thing we were asking about. We currently allow a >>> voting window of 16 hours (which is an improvement on the original 15 >>> mins). How much time do you think would be reasonable? >> I'd be happy with 2 days/48-hours >> > This would mean that the results wouldn't be available during the > meeting (as we normally hold the members' meeting on Wednesday evening). > > If this isn't a problem then fine, but we've had indications that people > like to know the result during the meeting. > > Nigel > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From mike.simkins at sungardas.com Wed Jun 25 13:08:55 2014 From: mike.simkins at sungardas.com (Mike Simkins) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:08:55 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu> <016b01cf900c$c358fcb0$4a0af610$@golding@astutium.com> <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> Message-ID: I think 24hours should be enough Mike -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Nigel Titley Sent: 25 June 2014 12:03 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association On 25/06/14 01:31, Rob Golding wrote: >> Well, this is one thing we were asking about. We currently allow a >> voting window of 16 hours (which is an improvement on the original 15 >> mins). How much time do you think would be reasonable? > I'd be happy with 2 days/48-hours > This would mean that the results wouldn't be available during the meeting (as we normally hold the members' meeting on Wednesday evening). If this isn't a problem then fine, but we've had indications that people like to know the result during the meeting. Nigel ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From sander at steffann.nl Wed Jun 25 14:23:16 2014 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 14:23:16 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu> <016b01cf900c$c358fcb0$4a0af610$@golding@astutium.com> <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> Message-ID: Hi Nigel, Op 25 jun. 2014, om 13:02 heeft Nigel Titley het volgende geschreven: > On 25/06/14 01:31, Rob Golding wrote: >>> Well, this is one thing we were asking about. We currently allow a >>> voting window of 16 hours (which is an improvement on the original 15 >>> mins). How much time do you think would be reasonable? >> I'd be happy with 2 days/48-hours >> > This would mean that the results wouldn't be available during the > meeting (as we normally hold the members' meeting on Wednesday evening). > > If this isn't a problem then fine, but we've had indications that people > like to know the result during the meeting. Indeed. Discussing the results of the voting, congratulating new board members, thanking old board members etc has to be part of the meeting in my opinion. A voting window of 24 hours seems the most fair to everybody because 24 hours will include one normal full working day for everybody. Cheers, Sander From nigel at titley.com Wed Jun 25 14:54:00 2014 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 13:54:00 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu> <016b01cf900c$c358fcb0$4a0af610$@golding@astutium.com> <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> Message-ID: <53AAC668.2090506@titley.com> On 25/06/14 13:23, Sander Steffann wrote: > Hi Nigel, > > Op 25 jun. 2014, om 13:02 heeft Nigel Titley het volgende geschreven: > Indeed. Discussing the results of the voting, congratulating new board members, thanking old board members etc has to be part of the meeting in my opinion. A voting window of 24 hours seems the most fair to everybody because 24 hours will include one normal full working day for everybody. > > In practice this will mean making the announcement at some time on Friday morning, which I don't think is too much of an issue, especially as we now make the announcement generally rather than just to members. We could either make it first thing (before the plenary starts) or during the morning break. The latter would seem to be most sensible (assuming the PC is happy with this). All the best Nigel From sander at steffann.nl Wed Jun 25 14:56:20 2014 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 14:56:20 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53AAC668.2090506@titley.com> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu> <016b01cf900c$c358fcb0$4a0af610$@golding@astutium.com> <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> <53AAC668.2090506@titley.com> Message-ID: <710FA8DB-BB3B-403D-ABDE-B1FFA5579B8F@steffann.nl> Hi Nigel, Op 25 jun. 2014, om 14:54 heeft Nigel Titley het volgende geschreven: > On 25/06/14 13:23, Sander Steffann wrote: >> Indeed. Discussing the results of the voting, congratulating new board members, thanking old board members etc has to be part of the meeting in my opinion. A voting window of 24 hours seems the most fair to everybody because 24 hours will include one normal full working day for everybody. > > In practice this will mean making the announcement at some time on Friday morning, which I don't think is too much of an issue, especially as we now make the announcement generally rather than just to members. We could either make it first thing (before the plenary starts) or during the morning break. The latter would seem to be most sensible (assuming the PC is happy with this). Sounds like a good solution to me :) Cheers, Sander From dave.wilson at heanet.ie Wed Jun 25 15:59:50 2014 From: dave.wilson at heanet.ie (Dave Wilson) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 14:59:50 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> Message-ID: <53AAD5D6.6080206@heanet.ie> Hi Nick, all, On 24/06/2014 12:06, Nick Hilliard wrote: > The bottom line is that if you log into an online evoting system, you > need to trust that the system will not associate your authentication > token with your ballot. I think that's fair. On 24/06/2014 16:34, Nick Hilliard wrote: > The evoting model goes like this: > > - identify yourself using email, get authentication token, log on to web > site, click some buttons, , get result. > > No doubt the magic is the right magic, but I don't understand it. I'm just > more comfortable with something I understand, both at each point along the > way and in its entirety. It's not a problem that it's really low tech. > Sometimes that's good if it means we can all understand how it works. I actually think this is not so fair. The "magic" is revealed in detail in the voting report and its linked documents. Every single vote is listed with its receipt number (I checked mine) and the result of each count is reported, and itself verifiable. This is linked from the web page for the GM. Best regards, Dave -- Dave Wilson, Project Manager web: www.heanet.ie HEAnet Ltd, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin 1 tel: +353-1-660-9040 Registered in Ireland, no 275301 fax: +353-1-660-3666 From lists-ripe at c4inet.net Wed Jun 25 16:58:38 2014 From: lists-ripe at c4inet.net (Sascha Luck) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 15:58:38 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53AAD5D6.6080206@heanet.ie> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53AAD5D6.6080206@heanet.ie> Message-ID: <20140625145838.GH87032@cilantro.c4inet.net> Hi Dave, all, On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 02:59:50PM +0100, Dave Wilson wrote: >I actually think this is not so fair. The "magic" is revealed in detail >in the voting report and its linked documents. Every single vote is >listed with its receipt number (I checked mine) and the result of each >count is reported, and itself verifiable. This is linked from the web >page for the GM. I'd call that a problem, actually. While it is nice to be able to verify that my vote was correctly counted, the secret ballot exists for one reason: to prevent vote buying, as the buyer will not be able to make sure the payee voted as "contracted". If the voting results are publically available, linked to receipt #, this verification is possible... cheers, Sascha Luck From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Wed Jun 25 17:23:52 2014 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:23:52 +0800 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <20140625145838.GH87032@cilantro.c4inet.net> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53AAD5D6.6080206@heanet.ie> <20140625145838.GH87032@cilantro.c4inet.net> Message-ID: <10D11A33-CD45-4380-8E3F-74B0C80C6102@anytimechinese.com> Hi Sascha: I think your point is valued... But for real... The ripe community as I know for past 7 years... Such situation is very unlikely to happen, and on the other hand, if someone have agreed to be bought, I do not understand much of his intention to change his vote during the actual voting with or without being verified. And secondly, vote can be bought, and each cost 1600 euro/ year:) according to current amount of voting, you only need about 200 vote to secure almost anything, so 320,000 euro/year. Just my two second:) > On 2014?6?25?, at ??10:58, Sascha Luck wrote: > > Hi Dave, all, > >> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 02:59:50PM +0100, Dave Wilson wrote: >> I actually think this is not so fair. The "magic" is revealed in detail >> in the voting report and its linked documents. Every single vote is >> listed with its receipt number (I checked mine) and the result of each >> count is reported, and itself verifiable. This is linked from the web >> page for the GM. > > I'd call that a problem, actually. While it is nice to be able to verify > that my vote was correctly counted, the secret ballot exists for one > reason: to prevent vote buying, as the buyer will not be able to make > sure the payee voted as "contracted". If the voting results are > publically available, linked to receipt #, this verification is > possible... > > cheers, > Sascha Luck > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From rob.golding at astutium.com Wed Jun 25 18:30:37 2014 From: rob.golding at astutium.com (rob.golding at astutium.com) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:30:37 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] =?utf-8?q?Request_to_amend_the_RIPE_NCC_Article?= =?utf-8?q?s=09of=09Association?= In-Reply-To: <53AAC668.2090506@titley.com> References: "\"<201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com>" <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu>" <016b01cf900c$c358fcb0$4a0af610$@golding@astutium.com> <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> <53AAC668.2090506@titley.com> Message-ID: <582462c8c582444845dfdaddb950eea9@astutium.com> >> Discussing the results of the voting, congratulating new board >> members, >> thanking old board members etc has to be part of the meeting in my >> opinion. Then IMHO voting _really_ needs to open a day earlier - whilst I understand the board want people to listen and maybe change their mind, but my experience is that the minds are made up *weeks* if not months in advance. That way 48 hours would still mean the results can be handled on the Friday Rob From sander at steffann.nl Wed Jun 25 18:46:04 2014 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 18:46:04 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <582462c8c582444845dfdaddb950eea9@astutium.com> References: "\"<201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com>" <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu>" <016b01cf900c$c358fcb0$4a0af610$@golding@astutium.com> <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> <53AAC668.2090506@titley.com> <582462c8c582444845dfdaddb950eea9@astutium.com> Message-ID: <6C3CB5F2-ADD3-40E9-BD31-0961F8A317A4@steffann.nl> Hi Rob, Op 25 jun. 2014, om 18:30 heeft rob.golding at astutium.com het volgende geschreven: > Then IMHO voting _really_ needs to open a day earlier - whilst I > understand the board want people to listen and maybe change their mind, > but my experience is that the minds are made up *weeks* if not months in > advance. I strongly disagree. This may be true for things that are published months in advance and not further discussed during the AGM. At the last AGM there was a lot of discussion on some subjects, and for me the presentations of the candidates for the board also made a big difference. If people vote blindly then what point is there in having an AGM with discussions in the first place? Cheers, Sander From brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk Wed Jun 25 20:04:58 2014 From: brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk (Brandon Butterworth) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:04:58 +0100 (BST) Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association Message-ID: <201406251804.TAA04679@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> > 25 Jun 2014 18:46 sander at steffann.nl > I strongly disagree. This may be true for things that are published > months in advance and not further discussed during the AGM. At the last > AGM there was a lot of discussion on some subjects, and for me the > presentations of the candidates for the board also made a big > difference. People voting the day before are likely because they can't make the meeting so they won't see the presentations or discussion. Thus they should be considered not a valid opinion and barred from voting? They can't have prior or independently obtained data to form an opinion? > If people vote blindly then what point is there in having > an AGM with discussions in the first place? Those registered to attend the meeting could be blocked from voting prior to the presentation. You might have to force them to be in the room and not have their fingers in their ears too I don't think early voting should be an issue, usually it's hard enough to get people to vote at all so best not to discourage those that will. regards brandon From lists-ripe at c4inet.net Wed Jun 25 20:35:55 2014 From: lists-ripe at c4inet.net (Sascha Luck) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:35:55 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <201406251804.TAA04679@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> References: <201406251804.TAA04679@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <20140625183555.GI87032@cilantro.c4inet.net> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 07:04:58PM +0100, Brandon Butterworth wrote: >People voting the day before are likely because they can't make the >meeting so they won't see the presentations or discussion. Thus they >should be considered not a valid opinion and barred from voting? a vote without debate leaves a bad taste, be it in $parliament or at the NCC AGM. Indeed, it is not far away from a jury delivering a verdict before the evidence has been presented. The reason there is a debate/discussion of these items is to give proponents or opposers a chance to persuade even those whose mind is made up to change it. Unless one were to make the process entirely virtual and hold all debate on the ML, but then there is no need (except perhaps, legal) for a physical GM at all rgds, Sascha Luck From lists-ripe at c4inet.net Wed Jun 25 20:55:43 2014 From: lists-ripe at c4inet.net (Sascha Luck) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:55:43 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> References: <0B6DCA0DECEE2143A4FD33DD8DA96C260983A49F@EX01.green-connection.ch> <53A94C60.1000909@titley.com> Message-ID: <20140625185543.GJ87032@cilantro.c4inet.net> Hi Nigel, all, On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 11:01:04AM +0100, Nigel Titley wrote: >We would like to hear more feedback from the membership on these voting >issues. Do members think there is a case for removing the option to vote >with paper ballot and by proxy? As for abolishing the paper ballot, I support this in principle. Some members have made good points though, regarding the secrecy and anonymity of electronic ballots. On a positive side, not needing time to vote during GM leaves more time to debate the agenda points... IMO this issue may need further debate and careful judgement. On the issue of proxies, is there data on what percentage of the vote is by proxy? On one hand, abolishing proxies prevents the accumulation of disproportional voting power in very few hands; OTOH, it may lead to a reduction in "turn-out". Not yet sure which side to take... (full-disclosure: I usually vote a few (electronic) proxies myself) >On a slightly different issue, we have received comments asking that >we open electronic >voting before the General Meeting. However, the board would prefer that >members cast their vote after the presentations and discussions on each >issue so they will be fully informed before voting. With the Board there, voting w/o debate is fundamentally undemocratic. >We also feel that the current electronic voting window is sufficient to >allow all members in the service region to cast their votes (some >calculations show that if were to hold a General meeting in the easternmost >timezone in the region then the westernmost zone (Iceland) would still have >2 hours of working time to cast their vote). However, if members >believe that the voting window should be extended we would >also like to hear from you. I think 24h is sufficient. rgds, Sascha Luck From brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk Wed Jun 25 22:34:26 2014 From: brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk (Brandon Butterworth) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 21:34:26 +0100 (BST) Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association Message-ID: <201406252034.VAA29817@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> > 25 Jun 2014 19:35 lists-ripe at c4inet.net > a vote without debate leaves a bad taste, be it in $parliament or at > the NCC AGM. Indeed, it is not far away from a jury delivering a > verdict before the evidence has been presented. Nobody said no debate. At the moment you can vote without listening to the debate, what difference does it make being allowed to do the same the day before? I think it's unreasonable to insist all voters have to sit through it before being allowed to vote at all but if it is necessary (need a vote on that :) then lock the doors, anyone who leaves loses their vote, allow only physical votes. brandon From dominik at clouvider.co.uk Wed Jun 25 23:05:17 2014 From: dominik at clouvider.co.uk (Dominik Nowacki) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 21:05:17 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <201406252034.VAA29817@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> References: <201406252034.VAA29817@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> Message-ID: <20140625210516.5927060.25149.3833@clouvider.co.uk> ?Hi All, I do believe candidates should have the opportunity to convince voters. What a point of them producing themselves and convincing the voters, if say half of them has already voted. ?I'm fine with 24 hours vote time but in my opinion there should be no voting before the debate. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. Original Message From: Brandon Butterworth Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2014 21:36 To: brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk; lists-ripe at c4inet.net Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association > 25 Jun 2014 19:35 lists-ripe at c4inet.net > a vote without debate leaves a bad taste, be it in $parliament or at > the NCC AGM. Indeed, it is not far away from a jury delivering a > verdict before the evidence has been presented. Nobody said no debate. At the moment you can vote without listening to the debate, what difference does it make being allowed to do the same the day before? I think it's unreasonable to insist all voters have to sit through it before being allowed to vote at all but if it is necessary (need a vote on that :) then lock the doors, anyone who leaves loses their vote, allow only physical votes. brandon ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From Timothy at tra.gov.om Thu Jun 26 06:32:15 2014 From: Timothy at tra.gov.om (Timothy Roy) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 04:32:15 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <20140625210516.5927060.25149.3833@clouvider.co.uk> References: <201406252034.VAA29817@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <20140625210516.5927060.25149.3833@clouvider.co.uk> Message-ID: <962B35EE7538DD448DF70940EE3756FA3994967C@TRASRV09.TRA.COM> Hi All, RIPE68 was my first RIPE meeting and after reading all the emails going back and forth it seems to me if the Candidates want your vote then they should have their presentation or at least their reasons for running for election posted well in advance as well. I found that actually waiting for the presentations and then listening to the comments did not sway my opinion on my voting for the Board Candidates but then there is not much time to really think about it at the GM. As for electronic voting, I am all for it in principle and I really do not care about anonymity as I am not voting for the leader of a country or a member of congress (in which there could be reprisal against you for who or what you vote for). Since there is already electronic voting for non-attendees (which their votes should count because they may have very specific reasons for not being able to attend) then for the attendees it should be a 12hr window for them to cast their vote electronically after the GM discussions. This should also allow for enough time for the announcement to be made at the RIPE meeting either the morning of the last day or the evening of the day before. Let's Face it, no matter what the decision is, not everyone will like it and that is a fact of life. As someone else mentioned in the emails, maybe we should have an electronic vote on whether to go fully electronic or not and the time frame to vote. Best Regards and Ramadan Kareem to All Tim -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Dominik Nowacki Sent: 26 June 2014 01:05 Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association ?Hi All, I do believe candidates should have the opportunity to convince voters. What a point of them producing themselves and convincing the voters, if say half of them has already voted. ?I'm fine with 24 hours vote time but in my opinion there should be no voting before the debate. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. Registered office: 88 Wood Street, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 7RS. Please note that Clouvider Limited may monitor email traffic data and also the content of email for the purposes of security and staff training. This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the intended recipient. If you do not believe you are the intended recipient you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify abuse at clouvider.net of this e-mail immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. Clouvider Limited nor any of its employees therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. Original Message From: Brandon Butterworth Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2014 21:36 To: brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk; lists-ripe at c4inet.net Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association > 25 Jun 2014 19:35 lists-ripe at c4inet.net a vote without debate leaves a > bad taste, be it in $parliament or at the NCC AGM. Indeed, it is not > far away from a jury delivering a verdict before the evidence has been > presented. Nobody said no debate. At the moment you can vote without listening to the debate, what difference does it make being allowed to do the same the day before? I think it's unreasonable to insist all voters have to sit through it before being allowed to vote at all but if it is necessary (need a vote on that :) then lock the doors, anyone who leaves loses their vote, allow only physical votes. brandon ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From rogerj at gmail.com Thu Jun 26 09:00:04 2014 From: rogerj at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Roger_J=C3=B8rgensen?=) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 09:00:04 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association In-Reply-To: <53AAC668.2090506@titley.com> References: <201406241515.QAA12077@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <53A99A73.9070303@netability.ie> <53A9DE9A.1050300@titley.com> <011ADE6D-56F8-4553-A8A9-2D86EEB3181A@ifom.eu> <53AAAC47.7070604@titley.com> <53AAC668.2090506@titley.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Nigel Titley wrote: > On 25/06/14 13:23, Sander Steffann wrote: >> Hi Nigel, >> >> Op 25 jun. 2014, om 13:02 heeft Nigel Titley het volgende geschreven: >> Indeed. Discussing the results of the voting, congratulating new board members, thanking old board members etc has to be part of the meeting in my opinion. A voting window of 24 hours seems the most fair to everybody because 24 hours will include one normal full working day for everybody. >> >> > In practice this will mean making the announcement at some time on > Friday morning, which I don't think is too much of an issue, especially > as we now make the announcement generally rather than just to members. > We could either make it first thing (before the plenary starts) or > during the morning break. The latter would seem to be most sensible > (assuming the PC is happy with this). > > All the best Sounds like a good solution. To sum it all up as I see it: - 24hours voting window as a max. See no real need for 2-3days, if you need that much time you should delegate the voting. - Open voting as today. It would be unwise to open voting before discussions in General Meeting (GM) are done so I'm strongly against that. Might be arriving new information that change the entire game? - Announce result sometime during the RIPE meeting, if that mean we have to move GM to an earlier day, so be it. - Proxy voting can, probably will, and probably already have been "missused" to get your (for any definition of you) candidate voted in. However there are real use cases for proxy voting so we need to support it somehow. I like the suggestion that LIRs have an option to delegate their voting rights to someone else online. - Paper voting is extra work if you compare it to full electronic voting, however we have this privacy vs anonymity issue. It is not an easy answer to that. What I suggest - all that register for GM and voting on RIPE70 should by default get the online vote options selected. If they want to vote using paper they have to select it themself. - Accountability should be improved, but first I think we need to better understand the real problem. Is it lack of trust, or just need to double check the result? -- Roger Jorgensen | ROJO9-RIPE rogerj at gmail.com | - IPv6 is The Key! http://www.jorgensen.no | roger at jorgensen.no From poty at iiat.ru Thu Jun 26 09:37:07 2014 From: poty at iiat.ru (poty at iiat.ru) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:37:07 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association References: <201406252034.VAA29817@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <20140625210516.5927060.25149.3833@clouvider.co.uk> Message-ID: <07824FF8A4954B438144406BC0D91D031B0E8E@CMAIL.office.iiat> Hello, In every voting process there are people who decide early (knowing the matter very well), have questions to resolve before deciding, decided in random ... and many-many other "types" of people. The democracy is not to force all people to go all the way to the end, but to allow them make their choice according to their believes. Those who need to ask questions and get more information will sit on the GM and ask, listen to, think... Those who had already decided (there are a lot of information before a GM) can vote early. Nobody will be restricted. Regards, Vladislav -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Dominik Nowacki Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 1:05 AM Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association ?Hi All, I do believe candidates should have the opportunity to convince voters. What a point of them producing themselves and convincing the voters, if say half of them has already voted. ?I'm fine with 24 hours vote time but in my opinion there should be no voting before the debate. With Kind Regards, Dominik Nowacki Clouvider Limited is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered number: 08750969. 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If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. Original Message From: Brandon Butterworth Sent: Wednesday, 25 June 2014 21:36 To: brandon at rd.bbc.co.uk; lists-ripe at c4inet.net Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Request to amend the RIPE NCC Articles of Association > 25 Jun 2014 19:35 lists-ripe at c4inet.net a vote without debate leaves a > bad taste, be it in $parliament or at the NCC AGM. Indeed, it is not > far away from a jury delivering a verdict before the evidence has been > presented. Nobody said no debate. At the moment you can vote without listening to the debate, what difference does it make being allowed to do the same the day before? I think it's unreasonable to insist all voters have to sit through it before being allowed to vote at all but if it is necessary (need a vote on that :) then lock the doors, anyone who leaves loses their vote, allow only physical votes. brandon ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/ Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses.