From sander at steffann.nl Tue Oct 22 17:27:25 2013 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 17:27:25 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? Message-ID: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> Hi, I just noticed this on the NCC website: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) Cheers, Sander From alfredo at solucionesdinamicas.net Tue Oct 22 17:39:27 2013 From: alfredo at solucionesdinamicas.net (Alfredo Sola) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 17:39:27 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <4C90963A-2825-4FF6-A8AF-80BCE94E8234@solucionesdinamicas.net> > http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager > It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... > I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) Now I am sure RIPE is on a Parke's dive... -- Alfredo Sola http://www.solucionesdinamicas.net/ From mark at tuxis.nl Tue Oct 22 17:44:45 2013 From: mark at tuxis.nl (Mark Schouten) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 17:44:45 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <52669D6D.1050501@tuxis.nl> Hi Sander, On 10/22/2013 05:27 PM, Sander Steffann wrote: > It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... > > I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) Obviously this is to cope with the killing competion in the market RIPE is working in. -- Kerio Connect in de Cloud? https://www.kerioindecloud.nl/ Mark Schouten | Tuxis Internet Engineering KvK: 09218193 | http://www.tuxis.nl/ T: 0318 200208 | info at tuxis.nl -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stolpe at resilans.se Tue Oct 22 18:49:24 2013 From: stolpe at resilans.se (Daniel Stolpe) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 18:49:24 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Sander Steffann wrote: > Hi, > > I just noticed this on the NCC website: > http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager > >> From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." > and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" > > It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... > > I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) Hi Sander, Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee that will cover the expenses and we are done). According to the activity plan, about 30ish people work with the core business: registry services. And about 100 do other stuff. Of course there has to be some infrastructure around but I still don't get what all of them are doing. I would be very happy to see a document stating what the NCC are supposed to do. And not do. Atlas, and labs and "no name" services are things I could do without. For example Cheers, Daniel _________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe at resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 13 054 556741-1193 103 02 Stockholm From sr at ripe.net Tue Oct 22 19:30:53 2013 From: sr at ripe.net (Serge Radovcic) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 19:30:53 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <5266B64D.4000401@ripe.net> Hi Sander et al, Yes we are looking for such an addition to our team. The term "marketing" may bring up thoughts of salesmen in suits and flash presentations, but that is not at all what we are intending. However, we do recognise there is a need for an addition to our team at the RIPE NCC that can help us improve the way many of our services are communicated to bring greater value to our membership and the RIPE community. And the term that is often used to describe such a function is associated with "marketing". I guess the irony is that the description I used in the advertisement should be seen as marketing in itself and I think that all members should be rest assured that they are not about to be hit by any hard hitting marketing campaigns from our end. That I can promise you all. We have a lot of new members joining the association, from far reaches of our incredibly vast service region and we are doing our very best to keep up with the latest techniques in communicating with them and reaching out to them to understand their needs. I hope that you don't get too caught up in the terms being used in this advertisement but rather what we are trying to achieve with this valuable addition. While we could get into an endless mailing list discussion about this, I would rather ask you to bear with me here and trust my actions. So far, I feel that I have brought positive change and additional transparency to the RIPE NCC since I joined the team just over two years ago and I feel equally as confident in asking you to trust me that we are aiming to continue with this trend. Kind regards, Serge Radovcic Chief Communications Officer RIPE NCC On 10/22/13 5:27 PM, Sander Steffann wrote: > Hi, > > I just noticed this on the NCC website: > http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager > > >From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." > and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" > > It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... > > I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) > > Cheers, > Sander > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From jj at streamnetworks.lv Tue Oct 22 19:39:45 2013 From: jj at streamnetworks.lv (=?UTF-8?B?SsSBbmlzIEphdW5vxaHEgW5z?=) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 20:39:45 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> I like atlas and labs :( On 10/22/13 7:49 PM, Daniel Stolpe wrote: > On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Sander Steffann wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I just noticed this on the NCC website: >> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager >> >>> From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." >> and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" >> >> It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... >> >> I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) > Hi Sander, > > Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the > employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is > everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a > government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is > responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need > 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee > that will cover the expenses and we are done). > > According to the activity plan, about 30ish people work with the core > business: registry services. And about 100 do other stuff. Of course there > has to be some infrastructure around but I still don't get what all of > them are doing. > > I would be very happy to see a document stating what the NCC are supposed > to do. And not do. > > Atlas, and labs and "no name" services are things I could do without. For > example > > Cheers, > > Daniel > > _________________________________________________________________________________ > Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe at resilans.se > Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ > Box 13 054 556741-1193 > 103 02 Stockholm > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- T?lrunis: +371 67788888 From poty at iiat.ru Tue Oct 22 20:02:14 2013 From: poty at iiat.ru (Vladislav Potapov) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:02:14 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] =?utf-8?b?0J3QkDogIE1hcmtldGluZz8gUmVhbGx5Pw==?= Message-ID: Me too. And many "outgoing" activities like RIPE meetings an so... too. I'm fully satisfied with the latest finance documents. At least they have the information I asked. Vladislav Potapov ru.iiat -----???????? ?????????----- ??: "J?nis Jauno??ns" ??????????: ?22.?10.?2013 21:46 ????: "members-discuss at ripe.net" ????: Re: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? I like atlas and labs :( On 10/22/13 7:49 PM, Daniel Stolpe wrote: > On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Sander Steffann wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I just noticed this on the NCC website: >> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager >> >>> From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." >> and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" >> >> It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... >> >> I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) > Hi Sander, > > Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the > employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is > everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a > government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is > responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need > 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee > that will cover the expenses and we are done). > > According to the activity plan, about 30ish people work with the core > business: registry services. And about 100 do other stuff. Of course there > has to be some infrastructure around but I still don't get what all of > them are doing. > > I would be very happy to see a document stating what the NCC are supposed > to do. And not do. > > Atlas, and labs and "no name" services are things I could do without. For > example > > Cheers, > > Daniel > > _________________________________________________________________________________ > Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe at resilans.se > Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ > Box 13 054 556741-1193 > 103 02 Stockholm > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- T?lrunis: +371 67788888 ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stolpe at resilans.se Tue Oct 22 20:05:55 2013 From: stolpe at resilans.se (Daniel Stolpe) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 20:05:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> Message-ID: Well, some people apparently do. My point is more that we pay about 20 people do to lab stuff that nobody (out of Amsterdam) knows how it started and nobody knows who might have asked for. If we need to hire people to market services, then I think something is upside down. I would prefer to see something like: 1) Someone presenting an idea (and a budget) for a new service. 2) The membership can say do or don't. 3) If "do", then there can be a trial for some period of time. 4) Evaluation and feed back. 5) The membership can again say do or don't (to continue). Not building something large and hidden and then try to get people to like and use it. Cheers, Daniel On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, J?nis Jauno??ns wrote: > I like atlas and labs :( > > On 10/22/13 7:49 PM, Daniel Stolpe wrote: >> On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Sander Steffann wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I just noticed this on the NCC website: >>> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager >>> >>>> From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." >>> and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" >>> >>> It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... >>> >>> I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) >> Hi Sander, >> >> Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the >> employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is >> everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a >> government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is >> responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need >> 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee >> that will cover the expenses and we are done). >> >> According to the activity plan, about 30ish people work with the core >> business: registry services. And about 100 do other stuff. Of course there >> has to be some infrastructure around but I still don't get what all of >> them are doing. >> >> I would be very happy to see a document stating what the NCC are supposed >> to do. And not do. >> >> Atlas, and labs and "no name" services are things I could do without. For >> example >> >> Cheers, >> >> Daniel _________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe at resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 13 054 556741-1193 103 02 Stockholm From stolpe at resilans.se Tue Oct 22 20:12:38 2013 From: stolpe at resilans.se (Daniel Stolpe) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 20:12:38 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [members-discuss] =?utf-8?b?0J3QkDogIE1hcmtldGluZz8gUmVhbGx5Pw==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good to hear some voices about this anyway. Btw. can the following members please use som other addresses: Exe Net Office noreply at combell.com TelecityGroup Finland This is a discussion mailing list. Posting members have no intention to create tickets. Thank you. On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Vladislav Potapov wrote: > Me too. And many "outgoing" activities like RIPE meetings an so... too. > I'm fully satisfied with the latest finance documents. At least they have the information I asked. > > Vladislav Potapov > ru.iiat > > ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > ??: J?nis Jauno??ns > ??????????: ?22.?10.?2013 21:46 > ????: members-discuss at ripe.net > ????: Re: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? > > I like atlas and labs :( > > On 10/22/13 7:49 PM, Daniel Stolpe wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Sander Steffann wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I just noticed this on the NCC website: > >> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager > >> > >>>? From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." > >> and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" > >> > >> It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... > >> > >> I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) > > Hi Sander, > > > > Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the > > employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is > > everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a > > government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is > > responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need > > 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee > > that will cover the expenses and we are done). > > > > According to the activity plan, about 30ish people work with the core > > business: registry services. And about 100 do other stuff. Of course there > > has to be some infrastructure around but I still don't get what all of > > them are doing. > > > > I would be very happy to see a document stating what the NCC are supposed > > to do. And not do. > > > > Atlas, and labs and "no name" services are things I could do without. For > > example > > > > Cheers, > > > > Daniel > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________ > > Daniel Stolpe?????????? Tel:? 08 - 688 11 81?????????????????? stolpe at resilans.se > > Resilans AB???????????? Fax:? 08 - 55 00 21 63??????????? http://www.resilans.se/ > > Box 13 054 ????? 556741-1193 > > 103 02 Stockholm > > > > > > ---- > > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > -- > T?lrunis: +371 67788888 > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > mvh Daniel Stolpe _________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe at resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 13 054 556741-1193 103 02 Stockholm From h.lu at outsideheaven.com Tue Oct 22 20:07:09 2013 From: h.lu at outsideheaven.com (Lu Heng) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 20:07:09 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] =?koi8-r?b?7uE6IE1hcmtldGluZz8gUmVhbGx5Pw==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Have no problem with them as long as next year they keep budget at 20m range. consider the current member fees, I think we as business have no problem with Ripe NCC doing any outreach activities at certain amount and some "good for internet" thing at few hundreds euro member fees per year. after all, we are running a business and such cost as business is too little to be even calculated. On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 8:02 PM, Vladislav Potapov wrote: > Me too. And many "outgoing" activities like RIPE meetings an so... too. > I'm fully satisfied with the latest finance documents. At least they have > the information I asked. > > Vladislav Potapov > ru.iiat > ________________________________ > ??: J?nis Jauno??ns > ??????????: ?22.?10.?2013 21:46 > ????: members-discuss at ripe.net > ????: Re: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? > > I like atlas and labs :( > > On 10/22/13 7:49 PM, Daniel Stolpe wrote: >> On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Sander Steffann wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I just noticed this on the NCC website: >>> >>> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager >>> >>>> From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation >>>> [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all >>>> services." >>> and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional >>> content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" >>> >>> It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, >>> needs someone for marketing its products and services... >>> >>> I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) >> Hi Sander, >> >> Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the >> employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is >> everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a >> government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is >> responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need >> 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee >> that will cover the expenses and we are done). >> >> According to the activity plan, about 30ish people work with the core >> business: registry services. And about 100 do other stuff. Of course there >> has to be some infrastructure around but I still don't get what all of >> them are doing. >> >> I would be very happy to see a document stating what the NCC are supposed >> to do. And not do. >> >> Atlas, and labs and "no name" services are things I could do without. For >> example >> >> Cheers, >> >> Daniel >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________________________ >> Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 >> stolpe at resilans.se >> Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 >> http://www.resilans.se/ >> Box 13 054 556741-1193 >> 103 02 Stockholm >> >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >> here, you can add or remove addresses. > > -- > T?lrunis: +371 67788888 > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general > page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, > you can add or remove addresses. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general > page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, > you can add or remove addresses. -- This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. From sander at steffann.nl Tue Oct 22 20:43:12 2013 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 20:43:12 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: <5266B64D.4000401@ripe.net> References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B64D.4000401@ripe.net> Message-ID: Hey Serge, It was indeed my feeling with the word 'marketing' that triggered my message. Thank you for your reply. Met vriendelijke groet, Sander Steffann > Op 22 okt. 2013 om 19:30 heeft Serge Radovcic het volgende geschreven: > > Hi Sander et al, > > Yes we are looking for such an addition to our team. The term > "marketing" may bring up thoughts of salesmen in suits and flash > presentations, but that is not at all what we are intending. However, we > do recognise there is a need for an addition to our team at the RIPE NCC > that can help us improve the way many of our services are communicated > to bring greater value to our membership and the RIPE community. And the > term that is often used to describe such a function is associated with > "marketing". > > I guess the irony is that the description I used in the advertisement > should be seen as marketing in itself and I think that all members > should be rest assured that they are not about to be hit by any hard > hitting marketing campaigns from our end. That I can promise you all. > > We have a lot of new members joining the association, from far reaches > of our incredibly vast service region and we are doing our very best to > keep up with the latest techniques in communicating with them and > reaching out to them to understand their needs. > > I hope that you don't get too caught up in the terms being used in this > advertisement but rather what we are trying to achieve with this > valuable addition. > > While we could get into an endless mailing list discussion about this, I > would rather ask you to bear with me here and trust my actions. So far, > I feel that I have brought positive change and additional transparency > to the RIPE NCC since I joined the team just over two years ago and I > feel equally as confident in asking you to trust me that we are aiming > to continue with this trend. > > Kind regards, > > Serge Radovcic > Chief Communications Officer > RIPE NCC > >> On 10/22/13 5:27 PM, Sander Steffann wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I just noticed this on the NCC website: >> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager >> >>> From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." >> and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" >> >> It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... >> >> I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) >> >> Cheers, >> Sander >> >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > From jj at streamnetworks.lv Tue Oct 22 20:43:28 2013 From: jj at streamnetworks.lv (=?UTF-8?B?SsSBbmlzIEphdW5vxaHEgW5z?=) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 21:43:28 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] =?utf-8?b?0J3QkDogIE1hcmtldGluZz8gUmVhbGx5Pw==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5266C750.4040906@streamnetworks.lv> Agreed, RIPE guys will probably filter out these emails, it happens all the time. On 10/22/13 9:12 PM, Daniel Stolpe wrote: > > Good to hear some voices about this anyway. > > Btw. can the following members please use som other addresses: > > Exe Net Office > noreply at combell.com > TelecityGroup Finland > > This is a discussion mailing list. Posting members have no intention > to create tickets. Thank you. > > On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Vladislav Potapov wrote: > >> Me too. And many "outgoing" activities like RIPE meetings an so... too. >> I'm fully satisfied with the latest finance documents. At least they >> have the information I asked. >> >> Vladislav Potapov >> ru.iiat >> >> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> ??: J?nis Jauno??ns >> ??????????: ?22.?10.?2013 21:46 >> ????: members-discuss at ripe.net >> ????: Re: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? >> >> I like atlas and labs :( >> >> On 10/22/13 7:49 PM, Daniel Stolpe wrote: >> > On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Sander Steffann wrote: >> > >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I just noticed this on the NCC website: >> >> >> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager >> >> >> >>> From that page: " This is a high profile role within the >> organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR >> strategy for all services." >> >> and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional >> content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" >> >> >> >> It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership >> organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... >> >> >> >> I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) >> > Hi Sander, >> > >> > Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the >> > employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is >> > everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a >> > government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is >> > responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I >> need >> > 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a >> membership fee >> > that will cover the expenses and we are done). >> > >> > According to the activity plan, about 30ish people work with the core >> > business: registry services. And about 100 do other stuff. Of >> course there >> > has to be some infrastructure around but I still don't get what all of >> > them are doing. >> > >> > I would be very happy to see a document stating what the NCC are >> supposed >> > to do. And not do. >> > >> > Atlas, and labs and "no name" services are things I could do >> without. For >> > example >> > >> > Cheers, >> > >> > Daniel >> > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________________________ >> > Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 >> stolpe at resilans.se >> > Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ >> > Box 13 054 556741-1193 >> > 103 02 Stockholm >> > >> > >> > ---- >> > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to >> the general page: >> > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >> > >> > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". >> From here, you can add or remove addresses. >> >> -- >> T?lrunis: +371 67788888 >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >> general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". >> From here, you can add or remove addresses. >> > > mvh > > Daniel Stolpe > > _________________________________________________________________________________ > > Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe at resilans.se > Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ > Box 13 054 556741-1193 > 103 02 Stockholm > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- T?lrunis: +371 67788888 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yiorgos at tee.gr Tue Oct 22 20:48:48 2013 From: yiorgos at tee.gr (Yiorgos Adamopoulos) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 21:48:48 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> Message-ID: <5266C890.1090000@tee.gr> ???? 22/10/2013 8:39 ??, ?/? J?nis Jauno??ns ??????: > I like atlas and labs :( Atlas and labs are things that I expect from RIPE NCC because of our membership. From tholloway at brightsolid.com Tue Oct 22 23:17:59 2013 From: tholloway at brightsolid.com (Tom Holloway) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 21:17:59 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: <5266B64D.4000401@ripe.net> References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl>, <5266B64D.4000401@ripe.net> Message-ID: <38667D08-0231-4797-A9BB-EBD6C7399ADF@brightsolid.com> Hear, hear. All organisations require a communications arm. Sent from my iPhone > On 22 Oct 2013, at 18:31, "Serge Radovcic" wrote: > > Hi Sander et al, > > Yes we are looking for such an addition to our team. The term > "marketing" may bring up thoughts of salesmen in suits and flash > presentations, but that is not at all what we are intending. However, we > do recognise there is a need for an addition to our team at the RIPE NCC > that can help us improve the way many of our services are communicated > to bring greater value to our membership and the RIPE community. And the > term that is often used to describe such a function is associated with > "marketing". > > I guess the irony is that the description I used in the advertisement > should be seen as marketing in itself and I think that all members > should be rest assured that they are not about to be hit by any hard > hitting marketing campaigns from our end. That I can promise you all. > > We have a lot of new members joining the association, from far reaches > of our incredibly vast service region and we are doing our very best to > keep up with the latest techniques in communicating with them and > reaching out to them to understand their needs. > > I hope that you don't get too caught up in the terms being used in this > advertisement but rather what we are trying to achieve with this > valuable addition. > > While we could get into an endless mailing list discussion about this, I > would rather ask you to bear with me here and trust my actions. So far, > I feel that I have brought positive change and additional transparency > to the RIPE NCC since I joined the team just over two years ago and I > feel equally as confident in asking you to trust me that we are aiming > to continue with this trend. > > Kind regards, > > Serge Radovcic > Chief Communications Officer > RIPE NCC > >> On 10/22/13 5:27 PM, Sander Steffann wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I just noticed this on the NCC website: >> http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/jobs/current-openings/marketing-and-pr-manager >> >>> From that page: " This is a high profile role within the organisation [...] to develop a high-level marketing, branding and PR strategy for all services." >> and "General Duties: [...] Write powerful and engaging promotional content for the organisation?s products and services [...]" >> >> It really surprises me that the NCC, being a membership organisation, needs someone for marketing its products and services... >> >> I hope I am just misunderstanding this :-) >> >> Cheers, >> Sander >> >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the brightsolid Email Security System. Powered by MessageLabs > ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ "brightsolid" is used in this email to collectively mean brightsolid online innovation limited and its subsidiary companies brightsolid online publishing limited and brightsolid online technology limited. findmypast.co.uk is a brand of brightsolid online publishing limited. brightsolid online innovation limited, Gateway House, Luna Place, Dundee Technology Park, Dundee DD2 1TP. Registered in Scotland No. SC274983. brightsolid online publishing limited, The Glebe, 6 Chapel Place, Rivington Street, London EC2A 3DQ. Registered in England No. 04369607. brightsolid online technology limited, Gateway House, Luna Place, Dundee Technology Park, Dundee DD2 1TP. Registered in Scotland No. SC161678. Email Disclaimer This message is confidential and may contain privileged information. You should not disclose its contents to any other person. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender named above immediately. It is expressly declared that this e-mail does not constitute nor form part of a contract or unilateral obligation. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of brightsolid shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the brightsolid Email Security System. Powered by MessageLabs ______________________________________________________________________ From rogerj at gmail.com Wed Oct 23 10:18:20 2013 From: rogerj at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Roger_J=F8rgensen?=) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:18:20 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: <5266B64D.4000401@ripe.net> References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B64D.4000401@ripe.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Serge Radovcic wrote: > Hi Sander et al, > > Yes we are looking for such an addition to our team. The term > "marketing" may bring up thoughts of salesmen in suits and flash > presentations, but that is not at all what we are intending. However, we > do recognise there is a need for an addition to our team at the RIPE NCC > that can help us improve the way many of our services are communicated > to bring greater value to our membership and the RIPE community. And the > term that is often used to describe such a function is associated with > "marketing". As a member I don't really like that you used terms like marketing or sales at all. I would be more happy with something more along the line of communication or similar since that's how I understand the task you need help with are? -- Roger Jorgensen | ROJO9-RIPE rogerj at gmail.com | - IPv6 is The Key! http://www.jorgensen.no | roger at jorgensen.no From stolpe at resilans.se Wed Oct 23 10:26:05 2013 From: stolpe at resilans.se (Daniel Stolpe) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:26:05 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: <5266C890.1090000@tee.gr> References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> <5266C890.1090000@tee.gr> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Yiorgos Adamopoulos wrote: > ???? 22/10/2013 8:39 ??, ?/? J?nis Jauno??ns ??????: >> I like atlas and labs :( > > Atlas and labs are things that I expect from RIPE NCC because of our > membership. How long have you been a member? Maybe new members are used to this playground business from the start and the older members are more sceptic. This is more of a principal question than a financial one. With all new members there is probably room in the budget for a lot of not really important things at the same time as the membership fees go down. But in principle, the R?seaux IP Europ?ens should be about European IP resources. I come to think of the fibre company owned by the Stockholm city government. They have monopoly for fibres in town. But some years ago they started to pull fibres across the Baltic sea. The question then was not if fibres across the Baltic was a good thing, but wether it was the task of this company to be in charge. (It was not). Cheers, Daniel _________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe at resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 13 054 556741-1193 103 02 Stockholm From kurtis at netnod.se Wed Oct 23 10:33:26 2013 From: kurtis at netnod.se (Kurt Erik Lindqvist) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:33:26 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> <5266C890.1090000@tee.gr> Message-ID: On 23 okt 2013, at 10:26, Daniel Stolpe wrote: > > On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Yiorgos Adamopoulos wrote: > >> ???? 22/10/2013 8:39 ??, ?/? J?nis Jauno??ns ??????: >>> I like atlas and labs :( >> >> Atlas and labs are things that I expect from RIPE NCC because of our >> membership. > > How long have you been a member? Maybe new members are used to this playground business from the start and the older members are more sceptic. > > This is more of a principal question than a financial one. With all new members there is probably room in the budget for a lot of not really important things at the same time as the membership fees go down. > > But in principle, the R?seaux IP Europ?ens should be about European IP resources. While I have some healthy skepticism against some RIPE NCC projects, and some of the ways they came to be, I think it's also fair to point out that the activities of the RIPE NCC is presented in the RIPE NCC activity plan, and that they as of the last one actually does a better job of breaking up costs in it. If you, me or anyone else have concerns or opinions on it, the right thing is to post comments on it when it is presented to members every year. Unfortunately the posting if normally comes with a very quiet mailing list. What we should all be doing during the year though is to compare activities to it and provide feedback on how well (or not) we think it's executed. That is partly why the NCC Services WG was created once upon a time, and we have (but rarely) had feedback in there on the performance of the activities of the NCC. This mailinglist is of course also a good channel, but I think we need to accept that the NCC does what is in the activity plan approved by it's members.... Best regards, - kurtis - --- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO kurtis at netnod.se, Direct: +46-8-562 860 11, Switch: +46-8-562 860 00 Franz?ngatan 5 | SE-112 51 Stockholm | Sweden From nigel at titley.com Wed Oct 23 10:16:23 2013 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 09:16:23 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <526785D7.6050308@titley.com> On 22/10/2013 17:49, Daniel Stolpe wrote: > Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me that much, considering the > employees talking about the NCC as a company while it in many ways is > everything but a company. I think it has many similarities with a > government entity. People do a lot of divese things and nobody is > responsible for the financies. (Axel just goes to Nigel and says "I need > 20 millinon euros next year, and then the board suggest a membership fee > that will cover the expenses and we are done). > > Since I got mentioned by name, perhaps the list won't mind if I respond to this one. In actual fact the board drags Axel over the coals every time he proposes a budget. Every item on the budget is debated and in many cases reduced. Axel has a personal objective (with real personal implications) to reduce per member spending, year on year and to bring expenses in below budget. That's one reason why the expenses are consistently falling. Every extra staff position is identified and debated before making it into the budget. It normally takes 2 or 3 iterations to come to a final budget, and only then will the membership fee be proposed. If the community thinks that the board just rubber-stamps the NCC's management decisions, then I'm afraid they are much mistaken. In addition to that, the NCC generates a monthly board report, running to 20 pages or more, which the board reads through and picks over. Between us, we've got pretty good at spotting anomalies and Axel knows better than to try (not that he would, of course). All the best Nigel From sander at steffann.nl Wed Oct 23 10:57:12 2013 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:57:12 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: <526785D7.6050308@titley.com> References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <526785D7.6050308@titley.com> Message-ID: Hi Nigel, > Since I got mentioned by name, perhaps the list won't mind if I respond to this one. Very much appreciated even! > In actual fact the board drags Axel over the coals every time he > proposes a budget. Every item on the budget is debated and in many cases > reduced. Axel has a personal objective (with real personal implications) > to reduce per member spending, year on year and to bring expenses in > below budget. That's one reason why the expenses are consistently > falling. Every extra staff position is identified and debated before > making it into the budget. It normally takes 2 or 3 iterations to come > to a final budget, and only then will the membership fee be proposed. If > the community thinks that the board just rubber-stamps the NCC's > management decisions, then I'm afraid they are much mistaken. > > In addition to that, the NCC generates a monthly board report, running > to 20 pages or more, which the board reads through and picks over. > Between us, we've got pretty good at spotting anomalies and Axel knows > better than to try (not that he would, of course). Thank you for this reply. I think it is very good that the members see what their board is doing for them. And I guess it might make the board's job a bit easier if we as members think about and discuss what we expect from the NCC in a constructive way :-) Cheers, Sander From stolpe at resilans.se Wed Oct 23 11:04:21 2013 From: stolpe at resilans.se (Daniel Stolpe) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:04:21 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> <5266C890.1090000@tee.gr> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Oct 2013, Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote: > > On 23 okt 2013, at 10:26, Daniel Stolpe wrote: > >> >> On Tue, 22 Oct 2013, Yiorgos Adamopoulos wrote: >> >>> ???? 22/10/2013 8:39 ??, ?/? J?nis Jauno??ns ??????: >>>> I like atlas and labs :( >>> >>> Atlas and labs are things that I expect from RIPE NCC because of our >>> membership. >> >> How long have you been a member? Maybe new members are used to this playground business from the start and the older members are more sceptic. >> >> This is more of a principal question than a financial one. With all new members there is probably room in the budget for a lot of not really important things at the same time as the membership fees go down. >> >> But in principle, the R?seaux IP Europ?ens should be about European IP resources. > > > > While I have some healthy skepticism against some RIPE NCC projects, and > some of the ways they came to be, I think it's also fair to point out > that the activities of the RIPE NCC is presented in the RIPE NCC > activity plan, and that they as of the last one actually does a better > job of breaking up costs in it. Absolutely. Thanks to some Russian shouting, if I remember things correctly. ;-) > If you, me or anyone else have concerns or opinions on it, the right > thing is to post comments on it when it is presented to members every > year. Unfortunately the posting if normally comes with a very quiet > mailing list. What we should all be doing during the year though is to > compare activities to it and provide feedback on how well (or not) we > think it's executed. I agree. But I rarely see any debate about this, so if someone has an opinion, it is not obvious when or where to speak up. > That is partly why the NCC Services WG was created once upon a time, and > we have (but rarely) had feedback in there on the performance of the > activities of the NCC. This mailinglist is of course also a good > channel, but I think we need to accept that the NCC does what is in the > activity plan approved by it's members.... Yes. If the majority is happy, then we are done. Cheers, Daniel _________________________________________________________________________________ Daniel Stolpe Tel: 08 - 688 11 81 stolpe at resilans.se Resilans AB Fax: 08 - 55 00 21 63 http://www.resilans.se/ Box 13 054 556741-1193 103 02 Stockholm From nigel at titley.com Wed Oct 23 11:14:02 2013 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:14:02 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> <5266C890.1090000@tee.gr> Message-ID: <5267935A.2040008@titley.com> On 23/10/2013 10:04, Daniel Stolpe wrote: > While I have some healthy skepticism against some RIPE NCC projects, > and some of the ways they came to be, I think it's also fair to point > out that the activities of the RIPE NCC is presented in the RIPE NCC > activity plan, and that they as of the last one actually does a better > job of breaking up costs in it. > > Absolutely. Thanks to some Russian shouting, if I remember things > correctly. ;-) > Well, the result of the Russian shouting was that the previous year's activity plan was re-published with a better breakdown. The Board had in fact already decided (as a response to, amongst other things, Kurtis' questions at the previous General meeting) that the next Activity plan would have a better breakdown and costing structure. But we would say that wouldn't we ;-) Nigel From yiorgos at tee.gr Wed Oct 23 11:16:22 2013 From: yiorgos at tee.gr (Yiorgos Adamopoulos) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:16:22 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> <5266C890.1090000@tee.gr> Message-ID: <526793E6.1040103@tee.gr> ???? 23/10/2013 11:26 ??, ?/? Daniel Stolpe ??????: > How long have you been a member? Maybe new members are used to this > playground business from the start and the older members are more sceptic. Since 1998 or 1999 (I'll have to check). But then again we were running tt24 so mentioning Atlas hit a nerve. > But in principle, the R?seaux IP Europ?ens should be about European IP > resources. If we make this their only mission then we can just transform them to bureaucrats that maintain a spreadsheet and be done with it. This LIR (gr.tee) although not heavily involved with RIPE NCCs activities would not like to see RIPE NCC reduced to such an organization. From nick at netability.ie Wed Oct 23 11:43:03 2013 From: nick at netability.ie (Nick Hilliard) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 17:43:03 +0800 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> <5266C890.1090000@tee.gr> Message-ID: <52679A27.8080603@netability.ie> On 23/10/2013 16:26, Daniel Stolpe wrote: > But in principle, the R?seaux IP Europ?ens should be about European IP > resources. Hi Daniel, ... as it is. The terms and reference for the RIPE community are defined in RIPE-1, which is still current: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-001 Nick From ms at man-da.de Wed Oct 23 11:58:29 2013 From: ms at man-da.de (Marcus Stoegbauer) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:58:29 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> <5266C890.1090000@tee.gr> Message-ID: On 23.10.2013, at 10:33, Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote: > > On 23 okt 2013, at 10:26, Daniel Stolpe wrote: >> >> This is more of a principal question than a financial one. With all new members there is probably room in the budget for a lot of not really important things at the same time as the membership fees go down. >> >> But in principle, the R?seaux IP Europ?ens should be about European IP resources. > > > While I have some healthy skepticism against some RIPE NCC projects, and some of the ways they came to be, I think it's also fair to point out that the activities of the RIPE NCC is presented in the RIPE NCC activity plan, and that they as of the last one actually does a better job of breaking up costs in it. If you, me or anyone else have concerns or opinions on it, the right thing is to post comments on it when it is presented to members every year. Unfortunately the posting if normally comes with a very quiet mailing list. What we should all be doing during the year though is to compare activities to it and provide feedback on how well (or not) we think it's executed. That is partly why the NCC Services WG was created once upon a time, and we have (but rarely) had feedback in there on the performance of the activities of the NCC. This mailinglist is of course also a good channel, but I think we need to accept that the NCC does what is in the activity plan approved by it's members?. I fully agree with your points, the activity plan has become a lot better to read after the improvements in the last couple of years. But if I may be a bit overly pedantic for a second: the activity plan is not directly approved by the RIPE NCC members, but by the board. The members can discuss the activity plan in the general meeting but cannot vote on it. Marcus -- man-da.de GmbH, AS8365 Phone: +49 6151 16-71022 Mornewegstr. 30 Fax: +49 6151 16-71198 D-64293 Darmstadt e-mail: ms at man-da.de Gesch?ftsf?hrer Marcus St?gbauer AG Darmstadt, HRB 94 84 From nigel at titley.com Wed Oct 23 13:41:14 2013 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:41:14 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Marketing? Really? In-Reply-To: References: <97D90C03-9E0A-452F-B867-605FE6DB14FD@steffann.nl> <5266B861.1000708@streamnetworks.lv> <5266C890.1090000@tee.gr> Message-ID: <5267B5DA.4020003@titley.com> On 23/10/2013 10:58, Marcus Stoegbauer wrote: > On 23.10.2013, at 10:33, Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote: > >> >> >> I fully agree with your points, the activity plan has become a lot better to read after the improvements in the last couple of years. But if I may be a bit overly pedantic for a second: the activity plan is not directly approved by the RIPE NCC members, but by the board. The members can discuss the activity plan in the general meeting but cannot vote on it. >> No but it is circulated both in draft and final form on the member list, well in advance of the general meeting and members are always invited to discuss it on the list. The Board does watch the list and does take your comments into account. Nigel