From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Tue Jun 5 00:22:08 2012 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 00:22:08 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count Message-ID: Hi Colleuages: Today I come across an very interesting article which I'd like to share with your guys and see what your guys think about it. http://ilia.ws/archives/236-ISP-Popularity-by-Domain-Count.html If what said in the article was true(which it should be as all the data from the article should be public data), if all the cable network start to use NAT, just in sense of domains, we might have IP supply for few more decades. And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. In which, is that service can use NAT in sometime future? I talked to an UK telecom provider one day in a ripe lunch, he told me that their network is already partly using NAT(sorry I didn't remember his name, but I am sure he is on this mailing list), and he only need a /21 for entire network. And another thing was, I heard from one of my friend in the Apanic meeting, that someone is selling entire A class there for 10 USD/ IP. We don't know if there is already some successful story there regarding IP sales. But seems to me, based on what happened on Asian now, at least in China, as I heard from many of my colleagues there, there was no real shortage there at this time. No body goes bankrupt because of no IPs left. So that raise an interesting point, since 60% of the world domain is in fact wasted, is that the same story with IP usage. After all, we allocated almost half of the pool before RIR even exists. The current way of IP distributing results a very noneffective way of "past business" IP usage as well(e.g. someone changed their business from cable business to an enterprise business, of course that guy will not return Ripe NCC his additional free 2 M IPs). So when their is a real market for IPv4, and all the latency space come to sale, will we last much much longer than everybody expected? We our-self have few dozen of enterprise customers, and they are already paying 3-5 USD/ month /IP for years, as asking them to re-program their software and re-provision their business into IPv6, the cost will be enormous for them, and one more thing is, most software writers don't really like IPv6, as it is hard to remember and hard to type(it will be a whole lot easier if you just remember the IP and type it every time you have to do so, rather than copy paste, we all know the reason). So, even IP price eventually raise to 30USD even 50USD, it is still very hard for them to switch it over to IPv6 as long as they don't have IPv6-only client, because they are paying this amount of money for IP per year anyway. Another thing is, one thing aside from RIR meetings and ISP meetings, we didn't really hear a lot about IPv6. IPv6 come into developer is still something new and interesting, and one guy I talked in the IPv6 workshop in the Ripe64, a software developer for an Austria local company, who don't even know that IPv6 has been around for almost a decades. Since Ripe is almost finish it's public pools, my last question is, will one day all the wasted IP address being effectively picked up because of existing marketplace, and that market place will last us another 3 decades before we really going to IPv6 ear? Go Ipv6 Pro Last forever(this reason doesn't really come into play because it this can be a reason convince enterprise customer then it should be done 10 years ago.). unlimited amount of address space.(same as above) cost reasons. con: need new router new config new practice and testing almost every part of the business(from software to hardware). very hard to remember and write. (welcome to add more on this list) IPv4 pro you know how it works it works for all of our business life. it is easy to remember con cost reasons. But let's look at how much we are paying Ripe NCC now, for large ones, they are paying more coffee in the office than they are paying Ripe thing. So does that really hurts them when they pay 20USD per IP, look at their margin and their current costs structure, I would say for most business, it should be fine. If there is enough supply in the market for next decades, and keep the price well below 50 USD per IP, I believe 99% of business would accept this price and go on with their life. History already tell us most of us don't look too far to the future(otherwise we are already there). Hope my a bit of 2 cents can get more interesting thoughts come around. -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. From ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com Tue Jun 5 00:26:34 2012 From: ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com (William Weber) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 00:26:34 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. Dedicated Servers/VPS/Colocation and Datacenter services in General i guess. >In which, is that service can use NAT in sometime future? Unlikely to impossible. William (RIPE: WW - LIR: at.edisgmbh - M: william at edis.at) Sent from my iPhone Am 05.06.2012 um 00:22 schrieb Lu Heng : > And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share > with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. > > In which, is that service can use NAT in sometime future? From h.lu at outsideheaven.com Tue Jun 5 00:32:57 2012 From: h.lu at outsideheaven.com (Lu Heng) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 00:32:57 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi The world has about 50m of servers. that including everything. and we have almost 378 m of IP pools. we can give 8 ip per server if we really want. On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 12:26 AM, William Weber wrote: >>And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share > with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. > > Dedicated Servers/VPS/Colocation and Datacenter services in General i guess. > > >>In which, is that service can use NAT in sometime future? > > Unlikely to impossible. > > William (RIPE: WW - LIR: at.edisgmbh - M: william at edis.at) > > Sent from my iPhone > > Am 05.06.2012 um 00:22 schrieb Lu Heng : > >> And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share >> with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. >> >> In which, is that service can use NAT in sometime future? > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. From job at instituut.net Tue Jun 5 00:47:26 2012 From: job at instituut.net (Job Snijders) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 00:47:26 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Lu (and others), From what I understand you have doubts about how serious IPv6 is and why it's needed. You also carefully lay down some arguments and datapoints, which I appreciate. This topic has been discussed multiple times before on this list, nevertheless I think it will not hurt anybody if we go over some of the aspects of this subject again. Members-discuss@, I urge you to come forward with arguments why IPv6 is so desperately needed and invalidate what Lu Heng brought to the list. I would love to compile all reasoning into a document to be used in IPv6 workshops. Regarding the pro's and con's you've written: - I agree IPv6 addresses are hard to remember, this is something that will not change, try to use automated DNS everywhere - In terms of routing, IPv6 is just 96 bits more of address space, that's mostly what has changed. - My guess is that IPv4 will but be available to everybody who needs it... up until somewhere in the year 2013 (RIPE region). Maybe you can put consumer subscribers behind NAT's, but there are only so many portforwards you can make on inbound tcp/25 or tcp/443. In these dark times I always enjoy listening to Randy Bush's soothing voice, this is a short video I recommend watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh3i6lDqWBM Kind regards, Job On 5 jun. 2012, at 00:22, Lu Heng wrote: > Hi Colleuages: > > Today I come across an very interesting article which I'd like to > share with your guys and see what your guys think about it. > > http://ilia.ws/archives/236-ISP-Popularity-by-Domain-Count.html > > If what said in the article was true(which it should be as all the > data from the article should be public data), if all the cable network > start to use NAT, just in sense of domains, we might have IP supply > for few more decades. > > And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share > with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. > > In which, is that service can use NAT in sometime future? > > I talked to an UK telecom provider one day in a ripe lunch, he told me > that their network is already partly using NAT(sorry I didn't remember > his name, but I am sure he is on this mailing list), and he only need > a /21 for entire network. > > And another thing was, I heard from one of my friend in the Apanic > meeting, that someone is selling entire A class there for 10 USD/ IP. > > We don't know if there is already some successful story there > regarding IP sales. But seems to me, based on what happened on Asian > now, at least in China, as I heard from many of my colleagues there, > there was no real shortage there at this time. > > No body goes bankrupt because of no IPs left. > > So that raise an interesting point, since 60% of the world domain is > in fact wasted, is that the same story with IP usage. After all, we > allocated almost half of the pool before RIR even exists. > > The current way of IP distributing results a very noneffective way of > "past business" IP usage as well(e.g. someone changed their business > from cable business to an enterprise business, of course that guy will > not return Ripe NCC his additional free 2 M IPs). > > So when their is a real market for IPv4, and all the latency space > come to sale, will we last much much longer than everybody expected? > > We our-self have few dozen of enterprise customers, and they are > already paying 3-5 USD/ month /IP for years, as asking them to > re-program their software and re-provision their business into IPv6, > the cost will be enormous for them, and one more thing is, most > software writers don't really like IPv6, as it is hard to remember and > hard to type(it will be a whole lot easier if you just remember the IP > and type it every time you have to do so, rather than copy paste, we > all know the reason). So, even IP price eventually raise to 30USD even > 50USD, it is still very hard for them to switch it over to IPv6 as > long as they don't have IPv6-only client, because they are paying this > amount of money for IP per year anyway. > > Another thing is, one thing aside from RIR meetings and ISP meetings, > we didn't really hear a lot about IPv6. IPv6 come into developer is > still something new and interesting, and one guy I talked in the IPv6 > workshop in the Ripe64, a software developer for an Austria local > company, who don't even know that IPv6 has been around for almost a > decades. > > Since Ripe is almost finish it's public pools, my last question is, > will one day all the wasted IP address being effectively picked up > because of existing marketplace, and that market place will last us > another 3 decades before we really going to IPv6 ear? > > Go Ipv6 > Pro > Last forever(this reason doesn't really come into play because it this > can be a reason convince enterprise customer then it should be done 10 > years ago.). > unlimited amount of address space.(same as above) > cost reasons. > con: > need new router new config new practice and testing almost every part > of the business(from software to hardware). > very hard to remember and write. > (welcome to add more on this list) > > IPv4 > pro > you know how it works > it works for all of our business life. > it is easy to remember > con > cost reasons. > > But let's look at how much we are paying Ripe NCC now, for large ones, > they are paying more coffee in the office than they are paying Ripe > thing. So does that really hurts them when they pay 20USD per IP, look > at their margin and their current costs structure, I would say for > most business, it should be fine. > > If there is enough supply in the market for next decades, and keep the > price well below 50 USD per IP, I believe 99% of business would accept > this price and go on with their life. > > History already tell us most of us don't look too far to the > future(otherwise we are already there). > > Hope my a bit of 2 cents can get more interesting thoughts come around. > > -- > -- > Kind regards. > Lu > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. > It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or > otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use > of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the > intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and > e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this > message and including the text of the transmission received. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4867 bytes Desc: not available URL: From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Tue Jun 5 01:03:58 2012 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 01:03:58 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi First I am sorry for the number provide in the last email was not correct, it should be 3.7B IP, in which left us about 80 IPs/server. Second I want to make perfect clear that I have no doubts about how serious IPv6 is, and how urgent we need to do it. Just this article I saw today, in which I think it might be very interesting to share with fellow colleagues as we are wasting 60% of total world IP, and I guess we wasted about half of our IP pools as well. But Job you are perfectly right, this topic most of us has come over multiple times, and I am sorry to bring this up again. As I have been to Asian a lot, which is the first region out of IP spaces, but I find out most of my Chinese colleagues have never worried about IP issues. Even China telecom are charging over 10USD/month/IP, most ISP are just ok with it. because end of the day, 10USD/month isn't a lot for enterprise customer. NAT has limited functionality, yes, but for most cable network users, that functionality is enough for them. And, I just want to say that I am sharing few of my thoughts these days about our IP problems, while I come across Atlantic in the past few months and the thoughts and talk I had with people in different regions and different organizations. Hope it helps:) On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 12:47 AM, Job Snijders wrote: > Dear Lu (and others), > > From what I understand you have doubts about how serious IPv6 is and why it's needed. You > also carefully lay down some arguments and datapoints, which I appreciate. This topic has > been discussed multiple times before on this list, nevertheless I think it will not hurt > anybody if we go over some of the aspects of this subject again. > > Members-discuss@, I urge you to come forward with arguments why IPv6 is so desperately > needed and invalidate what Lu Heng brought to the list. I would love to compile all > reasoning into a document to be used in IPv6 workshops. > > Regarding the pro's and con's you've written: > > ? ? ? ?- I agree IPv6 addresses are hard to remember, this is something that will not change, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? try to use automated DNS everywhere > ? ? ? ?- In terms of routing, IPv6 is just 96 bits more of address space, that's mostly what > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? has changed. > ? ? ? ?- My guess is that IPv4 will but be available to everybody who needs it... up until > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? somewhere in the year 2013 (RIPE region). Maybe you can put consumer subscribers > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?behind NAT's, but there are only so many portforwards you can make on inbound > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?tcp/25 or tcp/443. > > In these dark times I always enjoy listening to Randy Bush's soothing voice, this is a > short video I recommend watching: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh3i6lDqWBM > > Kind regards, > > Job > > > > > On 5 jun. 2012, at 00:22, Lu Heng wrote: > >> Hi Colleuages: >> >> Today I come across an very interesting article which I'd like to >> share with your guys and see what your guys think about it. >> >> http://ilia.ws/archives/236-ISP-Popularity-by-Domain-Count.html >> >> If what said in the article was true(which it should be as all the >> data from the article should be public data), if all the cable network >> start to use NAT, just in sense of domains, we might have IP supply >> for few more decades. >> >> And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share >> with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. >> >> In which, is that service can use NAT in sometime future? >> >> I talked to an UK telecom provider one day in a ripe lunch, he told me >> that their network is already partly using NAT(sorry I didn't remember >> his name, but I am sure he is on this mailing list), and he only need >> a /21 for entire network. >> >> And another thing was, I heard from one of my friend in the Apanic >> meeting, that someone is selling entire A class there for 10 USD/ IP. >> >> We don't know if there is already some successful story there >> regarding IP sales. But seems to me, based on what happened on Asian >> now, at least in China, as I heard from many of my colleagues there, >> there was no real shortage there at this time. >> >> No body goes bankrupt because of no IPs left. >> >> So that raise an interesting point, since 60% of the world domain is >> in fact wasted, is that the same story with IP usage. After all, we >> allocated almost half of the pool before RIR even exists. >> >> The current way of IP distributing results a very noneffective way of >> "past business" IP usage as well(e.g. someone changed their business >> from cable business to an enterprise business, of course that guy will >> not return Ripe NCC his additional free 2 M IPs). >> >> So when their is a real market for IPv4, and all the latency space >> come to sale, will we last much much longer than everybody expected? >> >> We our-self have few dozen of enterprise customers, and they are >> already paying 3-5 USD/ month /IP for years, as asking them to >> re-program their software and re-provision their business into IPv6, >> the cost will be enormous for them, and one more thing is, most >> software writers don't really like IPv6, as it is hard to remember and >> hard to type(it will be a whole lot easier if you just remember the IP >> and type it every time you have to do so, rather than copy paste, we >> all know the reason). So, even IP price eventually raise to 30USD even >> 50USD, it is still very hard for them to switch it over to IPv6 as >> long as they don't have IPv6-only client, because they are paying this >> amount of money for IP per year anyway. >> >> Another thing is, one thing aside from RIR meetings and ISP meetings, >> we didn't really hear a lot about IPv6. IPv6 come into developer is >> still something new and interesting, and one guy I talked in the IPv6 >> workshop in the Ripe64, a software developer for an Austria local >> company, who don't even know that IPv6 has been around for almost a >> decades. >> >> Since Ripe is almost finish it's public pools, my last question is, >> will one day all the wasted IP address being effectively picked up >> because of existing marketplace, and that market place will last us >> another 3 decades before we really going to IPv6 ear? >> >> Go Ipv6 >> Pro >> Last forever(this reason doesn't really come into play because it this >> can be a reason convince enterprise customer then it should be done 10 >> years ago.). >> unlimited amount of address space.(same as above) >> cost reasons. >> con: >> need new router new config new practice and testing almost every part >> of the business(from software to hardware). >> very hard to remember and write. >> (welcome to add more on this list) >> >> IPv4 >> pro >> you know how it works >> it works for all of our business life. >> it is easy to remember >> con >> cost reasons. >> >> But let's look at how much we are paying Ripe NCC now, for large ones, >> they are paying more coffee in the office than they are paying Ripe >> thing. So does that really hurts them when they pay 20USD per IP, look >> at their margin and their current costs structure, I would say for >> most business, it should be fine. >> >> If there is enough supply in the market for next decades, and keep the >> price well below 50 USD per IP, I believe 99% of business would accept >> this price and go on with their life. >> >> History already tell us most of us don't look too far to the >> future(otherwise we are already there). >> >> Hope my a bit of 2 cents can get more interesting thoughts come around. >> >> -- >> -- >> Kind regards. >> Lu >> >> This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. >> It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or >> otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use >> of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the >> intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received >> this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and >> e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this >> message and including the text of the transmission received. >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. From job at instituut.net Tue Jun 5 01:19:07 2012 From: job at instituut.net (Job Snijders) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 01:19:07 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Lu Heng, On 5 jun. 2012, at 01:03, Lu Heng wrote: > Second I want to make perfect clear that I have no doubts about how > serious IPv6 is, and how urgent we need to do it. :-) > But Job you are perfectly right, this topic most of us has come over > multiple times, and I am sorry to bring this up again. No, do not feel sorry, IP economics change over time. Especially given that World IPv6 Laundry day is around the corner, it's worth discussing. > As I have been to Asian a lot, which is the first region out of IP > spaces, but I find out most of my Chinese colleagues have never > worried about IP issues. > Even China telecom are charging over 10USD/month/IP, most ISP are just > ok with it. > because end of the day, 10USD/month isn't a lot for enterprise customer. You are talking about _today_ I assume. I think at some point the cost of maintaining IPv4 space will be higher than just deploying IPv6 on the devices that talk to other continents. > NAT has limited functionality, yes, but for most cable network users, > that functionality is enough for them. Might be true, but I like a world where everybody can run any service on their IP addresses without jumping through NAT hoops. Kind regards, Job -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4867 bytes Desc: not available URL: From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Tue Jun 5 01:30:06 2012 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 01:30:06 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Job On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 1:19 AM, Job Snijders wrote: > Hi Lu Heng, > > On 5 jun. 2012, at 01:03, Lu Heng wrote: > >> Second I want to make perfect clear that I have no doubts about how >> serious IPv6 is, and how urgent we need to do it. > > :-) > >> But Job you are perfectly right, this topic most of us has come over >> multiple times, and I am sorry to bring this up again. > > No, do not feel sorry, IP economics change over time. Especially given that > World IPv6 Laundry day is around the corner, it's worth discussing. > Thanks:) >> As I have been to Asian a lot, which is the first region out of IP >> spaces, but I find out most of my Chinese colleagues have never >> worried about IP issues. >> Even China telecom are charging over 10USD/month/IP, most ISP are just >> ok with it. >> because end of the day, 10USD/month isn't a lot for enterprise customer. > > You are talking about _today_ I assume. I think at some point the cost of > maintaining IPv4 space will be higher than just deploying IPv6 on the > devices that talk to other continents. No, what I mean here is, the real economically pressure that at least from my experiences with current enterprise customer, they don't really have any, because IP has been THE most profitable thing for almost all major commercial ISPs, look at this way, we get IP for free, and we sell it at what, 10,20,50 even sometime 100USD per year per IP. If we looking at the real rate the enterprise customer are paying for today, it is not really much of hurry for them to rush for the IPv6 at all--they paying this costs for years anyway. The video you have showed, randy was perfect right in the video, one day, we will hit a wall that will make our IPv4 costs so high that we have to go IPv6, but the question is, when? We know we are going to running out of IP address 20 years ago, but look at today's market you will find out that not many people are even heard of IPv6, it always be an "new and interesting and far future" thing. > >> NAT has limited functionality, yes, but for most cable network users, >> that functionality is enough for them. > > Might be true, but I like a world where everybody can run any service > on their IP addresses without jumping through NAT hoops. We are jumping though NAT hoops already these days, look at Chinese market, the largest internet user base, they are living an happy life with their carrier NAT for years. And another thing is, US are wasting enormous amount of IPs nowadays, they have less user base then China, but they are using about 10 times more than China, if we can make US use their IPs more effectively, in which I it might be as the market price come into play, the intention of re-writing software to support v6 might be well delayed for sometime. > > Kind regards, > > Job > -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Tue Jun 5 01:54:09 2012 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 01:54:09 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi And I just find another interesting number of internet user base. Internet users worldwide by regions, year-end 2011 (December 2011): WORLDWIDE: 2,267,233,742 - Asia: 1,016,799,076 (44.8% of internet users worldwide) - Europe: 500,723,686 (22.1%) - North America: 273,067,546 (12.0%) - Latin America / Caribbean: 235,819,740 (10.4%) - Africa: 139,875,242 (6.2%) - Middle East: 77,020,995 (3.4%) - Oceania / Australia: 23,927,457 (1.1%) So, US are using 40% of total world IP supply for it's 10% of world internet user base, while asian for years, is using about 10% of world IP address to supply 40% of internet user base. In which, tells us that if US can free us even half of it's IP address space, that will supply us maybe another decades. On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 1:30 AM, Lu Heng wrote: > Hi Job > > On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 1:19 AM, Job Snijders wrote: >> Hi Lu Heng, >> >> On 5 jun. 2012, at 01:03, Lu Heng wrote: >> >>> Second I want to make perfect clear that I have no doubts about how >>> serious IPv6 is, and how urgent we need to do it. >> >> :-) >> >>> But Job you are perfectly right, this topic most of us has come over >>> multiple times, and I am sorry to bring this up again. >> >> No, do not feel sorry, IP economics change over time. Especially given that >> World IPv6 Laundry day is around the corner, it's worth discussing. >> > Thanks:) >>> As I have been to Asian a lot, which is the first region out of IP >>> spaces, but I find out most of my Chinese colleagues have never >>> worried about IP issues. >>> Even China telecom are charging over 10USD/month/IP, most ISP are just >>> ok with it. >>> because end of the day, 10USD/month isn't a lot for enterprise customer. >> >> You are talking about _today_ I assume. I think at some point the cost of >> maintaining IPv4 space will be higher than just deploying IPv6 on the >> devices that talk to other continents. > > No, what I mean here is, the real economically pressure that at least > from my experiences with current enterprise customer, they don't > really have any, because IP has been THE most profitable thing for > almost all major commercial ISPs, look at this way, we get IP for > free, and we sell it at what, 10,20,50 even sometime 100USD per year > per IP. > > If we looking at the real rate the enterprise customer are paying for > today, it is not really much of hurry for them to rush for the IPv6 at > all--they paying this costs for years anyway. > > The video you have showed, randy was perfect right in the video, one > day, we will hit a wall that will make our IPv4 costs so high that we > have to go IPv6, but the question is, when? > > We know we are going to running out of IP address 20 years ago, but > look at today's market you will find out that not many people are even > heard of IPv6, it always be an "new and interesting and far future" > thing. >> >>> NAT has limited functionality, yes, but for most cable network users, >>> that functionality is enough for them. >> >> Might be true, but I like a world where everybody can run any service >> on their IP addresses without jumping through NAT hoops. > > We are jumping though NAT hoops already these days, look at Chinese > market, the largest internet user base, they are living an happy life > with their carrier NAT for years. > > And another thing is, US are wasting enormous amount of IPs nowadays, > they have less user base then China, but they are using about 10 times > more than China, if we can make US use their IPs more effectively, in > which I ?it might be as the market price come into play, the intention > of re-writing software to support v6 might be well delayed for > sometime. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Job >> > > > > -- > -- > Kind regards. > Lu > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. > It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or > otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use > of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the > intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and > e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this > message and including the text of the transmission received. -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. From erik at bais.name Tue Jun 5 09:42:50 2012 From: erik at bais.name (Erik Bais) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 09:42:50 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D56DE@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> Hi William, Lu & others, > >And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. > Dedicated Servers/VPS/Colocation and Datacenter services in General i guess. Don't forget SSL hosting. Also a lot of hosting companies provide extra IP's for management like IPO, so instead of only 1 IP per server, they would require a second IP per server. Some things could be improved here if hosting companies would only allow that kind of connections on private IP's via a central VPN box. However valid, I don't expect hosting companies to change their behavior in conserving IP's up to a point where they are running out. A question that I have, is will we see (do we expect) implementations of reverse proxies in front of (shared) hosting environments ? It would make things more complex to troubleshoot, but with the current speed of implementations in the field ... I wouldn't be surprised if we would. Regards, Erik Bais From gert at space.net Tue Jun 5 09:55:02 2012 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 09:55:02 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120605075502.GQ84425@Space.Net> Hi, On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 01:54:09AM +0200, Lu Heng wrote: > In which, tells us that if US can free us even half of it's IP address > space, that will supply us maybe another decades. This would be very ill-spent effort. If we do the same stupid things a few more decades, like "write new software with IPv4 only, sell millions of phones and other gadgets with IPv4 only", migration to something reasonable will be much *harder*. If we had done the IPv6 thing 5 years ago already, hardly any mobile device would have been affected - today, there's millions of iThings and Androids that don't support IPv6 on 3G - stupid and avoidable pain. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From neufeind at gmx.de Tue Jun 5 08:37:06 2012 From: neufeind at gmx.de (Stefan Neufeind) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2012 08:37:06 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FCDA912.3040909@gmx.de> On 06/05/2012 01:30 AM, Lu Heng wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 1:19 AM, Job Snijders wrote: >> >> On 5 jun. 2012, at 01:03, Lu Heng wrote: [...] >>> NAT has limited functionality, yes, but for most cable network users, >>> that functionality is enough for them. >> >> Might be true, but I like a world where everybody can run any service >> on their IP addresses without jumping through NAT hoops. > > We are jumping though NAT hoops already these days, look at Chinese > market, the largest internet user base, they are living an happy life > with their carrier NAT for years. Well, they are living behind a big firewall anyway. So if we as non-Chinese worry about them doing NAT, maybe that should worry us more. Regards, Stefan From gert at space.net Tue Jun 5 09:51:03 2012 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 09:51:03 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20120605075103.GP84425@Space.Net> Hi, On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 12:47:26AM +0200, Job Snijders wrote: > Members-discuss@, I urge you to come forward with arguments why IPv6 is so desperately > needed and invalidate what Lu Heng brought to the list. I would love to compile all > reasoning into a document to be used in IPv6 workshops. "end to end connectivity". If your ISP NATs you, you can't connect back to your home network by any means, and most of the peer2peer-applications will be broken. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 7650 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chris at filoo.de Tue Jun 5 10:00:12 2012 From: chris at filoo.de (Dr. Christopher Kunz) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2012 10:00:12 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D56DE@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> References: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D56DE@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> Message-ID: <4FCDBC8C.7060307@filoo.de> Am 05.06.12 09:42, schrieb Erik Bais: > Hi William, Lu & others, > >>> And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. > >> Dedicated Servers/VPS/Colocation and Datacenter services in General i guess. > > Don't forget SSL hosting. As far as I know, over 95% of all relevant browsers are currently SNI capable. There are only few exceptions, and even fewer notable ones. Most of the exceptions (IE on XP etc.) are dying out steadily. Just my two cents, --ck -- filoo GmbH Dr. Christopher Kunz E-Mail: chris at filoo.de Tel.: (+49) 0 52 41 8 67 30 -18 Fax: (+49) 0 52 41 / 8 67 30 -20 Please sign & encrypt mail wherever possible, my key: C882 8ED1 7DD1 9011 C088 EA50 5CFA 2EEB 397A CAC1 Moltkestra?e 25a 33330 G?tersloh HRB4355, AG G?tersloh Gesch?ftsf?hrer: S.Grewing, J.Rehp?hler, Dr. C.Kunz Filoo im Web: http://www.filoo.de/ Folgen Sie uns auf Twitter: http://twitter.com/filoogmbh Werden Sie unser Fan auf Facebook: http://facebook.com/filoogmbh From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Tue Jun 5 10:15:36 2012 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 10:15:36 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: <4FCDBC8C.7060307@filoo.de> References: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D56DE@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> <4FCDBC8C.7060307@filoo.de> Message-ID: Hi On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Dr. Christopher Kunz wrote: > Am 05.06.12 09:42, schrieb Erik Bais: >> Hi William, Lu & others, >> >>>> And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. >> >>> Dedicated Servers/VPS/Colocation and Datacenter services in General i guess. >> >> Don't forget SSL hosting. > > As far as I know, over 95% of all relevant browsers are currently SNI > capable. There are only few exceptions, and even fewer notable ones. > Most of the exceptions (IE on XP etc.) are dying out steadily. > That is very much depends on country though, in Germany or EU in general, IE was not the most popular browser for years, but XP+IE has been still holding huge amount of share in Asian or other developing market, after all, XP is still an functioning OS with minimum hardware requirement. > Just my two cents, > > --ck > > -- > filoo GmbH > Dr. Christopher Kunz > > E-Mail: chris at filoo.de > Tel.: (+49) 0 52 41 8 67 30 -18 > Fax: (+49) 0 52 41 / 8 67 30 -20 > > Please sign & encrypt mail wherever possible, my key: > C882 8ED1 7DD1 9011 C088 EA50 5CFA 2EEB 397A CAC1 > > Moltkestra?e 25a > 33330 G?tersloh > > HRB4355, AG G?tersloh > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: S.Grewing, J.Rehp?hler, Dr. C.Kunz > > Filoo im Web: http://www.filoo.de/ > Folgen Sie uns auf Twitter: http://twitter.com/filoogmbh > Werden Sie unser Fan auf Facebook: http://facebook.com/filoogmbh > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Tue Jun 5 10:21:45 2012 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 10:21:45 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: <20120605075502.GQ84425@Space.Net> Message-ID: Hi On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Gert Doering wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 01:54:09AM +0200, Lu Heng wrote: >> In which, tells us that if US can free us even half of it's IP address >> space, that will supply us maybe another decades. > > This would be very ill-spent effort. > > If we do the same stupid things a few more decades, like "write new software > with IPv4 only, sell millions of phones and other gadgets with IPv4 only", > migration to something reasonable will be much *harder*. > > If we had done the IPv6 thing 5 years ago already, hardly any mobile > device would have been affected - today, there's millions of iThings and > Androids that don't support IPv6 on 3G - stupid and avoidable pain. > You are perfectly right, but in the real business world, 99% company operate exactly like how western country works--every CEO is in office for current amount of time, and most of them worry much more about this Q rather than 5 years later in which he might not even in office any more. So if today cost him 10m to fix the problem for 5 years, or cost him 20m to fix the problem forever, not many of them will go for 20m option. The real reason behind it, is just like Jeff said in the IPv6 workshop, most of us are technical people, with not real much of business practice in mind. > Gert Doering > ? ? ? ?-- NetMaster > -- > have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? > > SpaceNet AG ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 ? ? ? ? ?Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann > D-80807 Muenchen ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) > Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 ? ? ? ? ? ?USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. -- -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Tue Jun 5 10:37:22 2012 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 10:37:22 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: <20120605075103.GP84425@Space.Net> References: <20120605075103.GP84425@Space.Net> Message-ID: Hi On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Gert Doering wrote: > Hi, > > On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 12:47:26AM +0200, Job Snijders wrote: >> Members-discuss@, I urge you to come forward with arguments why IPv6 is so desperately >> needed and invalidate what Lu Heng brought to the list. I would love to compile all >> reasoning into a document to be used in IPv6 workshops. > > "end to end connectivity". > > If your ISP NATs you, you can't connect back to your home network by > any means, and most of the peer2peer-applications will be broken. > You are right about connect back to home thing(but again, how many people really connect back to home, or even know that possibility exists, and what China telecom does with these business people(they are business people mostly), they charge extra for static IP address in which at cost of over 2000Euro/IP/year(that's why they are the most profitable ISP in the world) ), for p2p, there is already large amount of software has solved the problem,and just do not underestimate the people's technical ability about sharing. The biggest IPv6 traffic I have ever seen is in one of Chinese university in Beijing, the reason behind that is--school charge student for their IPv4 traffic but not IPv6 traffic, so they use IPv6 to download:)(about 5G/second) so example like that will tech us, end of the day, the cost is the most important thing, not many people really care about how long the future goes as long as it is not broken now, as long as people has no economical intensive to go for IPv6, then won't do that. But once the end user has the presure of money for going IPv6,then they will, but the core point I am raising here is: since end customer already paying somewhere around 10-100USD/IP/year, at current low IPv4 price, I didn't see much of economic intensive exits at the end user side(only in ISP side, but again, we have free lunch for past 20 years, does it really matter a lot for that free lunch raise it's price a bit in which still be a relative cheap price). So, let me summary my point, I believe current IPv4 price does not offer enough intensive for most of end user to go IPv6.Maybe we need about 100USD/IP to drive IPv6 into a everyday world. Just my 2 cents thought:) -- Kind regards. Lu This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. From neufeind at gmx.de Tue Jun 5 10:40:04 2012 From: neufeind at gmx.de (Stefan Neufeind) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2012 10:40:04 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: <4FCDBC8C.7060307@filoo.de> References: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D56DE@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> <4FCDBC8C.7060307@filoo.de> Message-ID: <4FCDC5E4.9040805@gmx.de> On 06/05/2012 10:00 AM, Dr. Christopher Kunz wrote: > Am 05.06.12 09:42, schrieb Erik Bais: >> Hi William, Lu & others, >> >>>> And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. >> >>> Dedicated Servers/VPS/Colocation and Datacenter services in General i guess. >> >> Don't forget SSL hosting. > > As far as I know, over 95% of all relevant browsers are currently SNI > capable. There are only few exceptions, and even fewer notable ones. > Most of the exceptions (IE on XP etc.) are dying out steadily. SNI would be really great to have. But according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication#No_support browsers on XP (which you mentioned; IE and Safari) and Android 2.x as well as some things like wget (maybe distributions supply it patched nowadays?) are the pain I see with that solution. XP is not yet really dead, as is Android 2.x - unfortunately for both. Regards, Stefan From depebo at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 13:14:41 2012 From: depebo at gmail.com (Artem B) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 15:14:41 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, dear mailing list. On behalf of a medium retail ETTH ISP here in central Russia, I'd like to share a piece of CGNAT44 expirience with you. We are using it right from the start of the business for the 95% of our subscribers on their way to Internet. We've tried out several application approaches on this matter: single public IP with round robin port mapping to a 10.a.b/24 full of subscribers; random IP with session long port-block allocation of various ranges (64-1024 portblocks allocated per user at a time), while maintaining NAT behaviour requirements for TCP/UDP as per RFCs (major NAT traversal tricks as well). Number of ports required for a single user may vary in scale dramatically - simple websurfing takes 50-100 ports, while heavy p2p application can easily take 10K active connections, this Optimal port utilisation may be reached with up to 350-400 active users per public IP address without significant service degradation. This gives us around 2.5-3.5M IPv4 addresses required for a 1B users surfing internet and doing some serious p2p... So... an ISP can survive with this shortage and provide a "static public IP address" as a VAS - as it seems to me =) What bothers us is that it's still quiet difficult to get even as little as /21 IPv4 address as an additional allocation in case if we want to launch a new regional network... By the way - just while this discussion lasts, I've recieved 2 emails asking if we want to buy or sell any internet numbers =) 05.06.2012 2:22 ???????????? "Lu Heng" ???????: > > Hi Colleuages: > > Today I come across an very interesting article which I'd like to > share with your guys and see what your guys think about it. > > http://ilia.ws/archives/236-ISP-Popularity-by-Domain-Count.html > > If what said in the article was true(which it should be as all the > data from the article should be public data), if all the cable network > start to use NAT, just in sense of domains, we might have IP supply > for few more decades. > > And it would be very interesting if someone from Ripe NCC can share > with us what is the most IP consuming business in the planet. > > In which, is that service can use NAT in sometime future? > > I talked to an UK telecom provider one day in a ripe lunch, he told me > that their network is already partly using NAT(sorry I didn't remember > his name, but I am sure he is on this mailing list), and he only need > a /21 for entire network. > > And another thing was, I heard from one of my friend in the Apanic > meeting, that someone is selling entire A class there for 10 USD/ IP. > > We don't know if there is already some successful story there > regarding IP sales. But seems to me, based on what happened on Asian > now, at least in China, as I heard from many of my colleagues there, > there was no real shortage there at this time. > > No body goes bankrupt because of no IPs left. > > So that raise an interesting point, since 60% of the world domain is > in fact wasted, is that the same story with IP usage. After all, we > allocated almost half of the pool before RIR even exists. > > The current way of IP distributing results a very noneffective way of > "past business" IP usage as well(e.g. someone changed their business > from cable business to an enterprise business, of course that guy will > not return Ripe NCC his additional free 2 M IPs). > > So when their is a real market for IPv4, and all the latency space > come to sale, will we last much much longer than everybody expected? > > We our-self have few dozen of enterprise customers, and they are > already paying 3-5 USD/ month /IP for years, as asking them to > re-program their software and re-provision their business into IPv6, > the cost will be enormous for them, and one more thing is, most > software writers don't really like IPv6, as it is hard to remember and > hard to type(it will be a whole lot easier if you just remember the IP > and type it every time you have to do so, rather than copy paste, we > all know the reason). So, even IP price eventually raise to 30USD even > 50USD, it is still very hard for them to switch it over to IPv6 as > long as they don't have IPv6-only client, because they are paying this > amount of money for IP per year anyway. > > Another thing is, one thing aside from RIR meetings and ISP meetings, > we didn't really hear a lot about IPv6. IPv6 come into developer is > still something new and interesting, and one guy I talked in the IPv6 > workshop in the Ripe64, a software developer for an Austria local > company, who don't even know that IPv6 has been around for almost a > decades. > > Since Ripe is almost finish it's public pools, my last question is, > will one day all the wasted IP address being effectively picked up > because of existing marketplace, and that market place will last us > another 3 decades before we really going to IPv6 ear? > > Go Ipv6 > Pro > Last forever(this reason doesn't really come into play because it this > can be a reason convince enterprise customer then it should be done 10 > years ago.). > unlimited amount of address space.(same as above) > cost reasons. > con: > need new router new config new practice and testing almost every part > of the business(from software to hardware). > very hard to remember and write. > (welcome to add more on this list) > > IPv4 > pro > you know how it works > it works for all of our business life. > it is easy to remember > con > cost reasons. > > But let's look at how much we are paying Ripe NCC now, for large ones, > they are paying more coffee in the office than they are paying Ripe > thing. So does that really hurts them when they pay 20USD per IP, look > at their margin and their current costs structure, I would say for > most business, it should be fine. > > If there is enough supply in the market for next decades, and keep the > price well below 50 USD per IP, I believe 99% of business would accept > this price and go on with their life. > > History already tell us most of us don't look too far to the > future(otherwise we are already there). > > Hope my a bit of 2 cents can get more interesting thoughts come around. > > -- > -- > Kind regards. > Lu > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. > It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or > otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use > of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the > intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and > e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this > message and including the text of the transmission received. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rob.golding at othellotech.net Tue Jun 5 16:03:43 2012 From: rob.golding at othellotech.net (Rob Golding) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 15:03:43 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <02ca01cd4324$0444e500$0cceaf00$@golding@othellotech.net> Lu Heng wrote ... > So, US are using 40% of total world IP supply for it's 10% of world > internet user base, while asian for years, is using about 10% of world > IP address to supply 40% of internet user base. > > In which, tells us that if US can free us even half of it's IP address > space, that will supply us maybe another decades. You make a *very* incorrect assumption: That the main use of IP addresses is "access" to the internet - completely ignoring all the devices/systems/networks/etc that hold those services you are accessing - the bulk of which are in the EU and US. IPv6 is not a new idea. Dual-Stacking is not a new idea. IMHO if you're still deploying systems and devices that only work v4 your business is about to die - attaching a bit of NAT based life-support isn't going to save it. Rob From alexandr.saroyan at orange-ftgroup.am Wed Jun 6 09:06:57 2012 From: alexandr.saroyan at orange-ftgroup.am (Alexandr Saroyan) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 07:06:57 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: <02ca01cd4324$0444e500$0cceaf00$@golding@othellotech.net> References: <02ca01cd4324$0444e500$0cceaf00$@golding@othellotech.net> Message-ID: <64D23D4DB42E1C46B0655D4DF4EEA5B92310C739@Oram-EXMBOX02.ad.orangearmenia.am> Hi, Dear friends, Don't forget that idea of the Internet is that each single host should be able to communicate to any other single host. I strongly believe and I think everyone on this mailing list sure that there are many approaches to live with IPv4. It is time to understand that all that are temporary solutions. Your life will become more and more hard if you go deeper and deeper with temporary solutions. There is class of "Specialists" for whom it is easier to deploy a temporary solution and say 'Hah it works' instead of making a bit effort to deploy something permanent. Each LIR is piece of the Internet - don't trust strategy of your piece to such lazy "Specialists". Don't think like "I need a solution", think like "I need stable, reliable and long lasting solution". Internet is in production service, it is not your grandmother's home LAN, each of you must feel responsibility. Temporary solution is bad for production and permanent solution is only and only good thing for growth and stability of any production system like Internet is. And finally: Stop counting IP addresses, just do your contribution to IPv6 deployment by deploying it within your piece of the Internet. As fast as we converge to IPv6 as fast we will remove all the bad stuff like NAT and will finally stop counting IP addresses. Best. /Alex -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Rob Golding Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 6:04 PM To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count Lu Heng wrote ... > So, US are using 40% of total world IP supply for it's 10% of world > internet user base, while asian for years, is using about 10% of world > IP address to supply 40% of internet user base. > > In which, tells us that if US can free us even half of it's IP address > space, that will supply us maybe another decades. You make a *very* incorrect assumption: That the main use of IP addresses is "access" to the internet - completely ignoring all the devices/systems/networks/etc that hold those services you are accessing - the bulk of which are in the EU and US. IPv6 is not a new idea. Dual-Stacking is not a new idea. IMHO if you're still deploying systems and devices that only work v4 your business is about to die - attaching a bit of NAT based life-support isn't going to save it. Rob ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com Wed Jun 6 13:37:53 2012 From: ripe-members-discussion at edisglobal.com (William Weber) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 13:37:53 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: <20120605075502.GQ84425@Space.Net> References: <20120605075502.GQ84425@Space.Net> Message-ID: <9BA11260-8B4E-410E-846E-4C609E675DF9@edisglobal.com> As far as i can see my iPhone (4, newest iOS) obtains an IPv6 by DHCP6 from my carrier over 3G so it *should* be able to use it. All my devices (iPhone, iPad, Android phone, my old Nokia even) get (and use + prefer) IPv6 in my home Wifi by DHCP6 from my Netgear router (which then tunnels to he.net since UPC Austria has no IPv6 officially). Anyway, that what follows is pretty offtopic - I'd like to share the IPv6 and IPv4 usage of some ISPs in Austria which might be interesting for you since we are a rather small (both in population and size) but highly connected country used often as a testbed for new tech (highest 3G usage rate in the EU, first 3G network in the EU, highest LTE usage rate in the EU etc etc) We have a few main ISPs here: UPC Telekom Austria And some smaller ones like Hotze.com and local networks and the mobile ISPs. So far you get a dynamic external IPv4 IP at most of them when using DSL, the smaller ISPs like Hotze and I3B usualy give one static IP per connection. UPC gives a "semi" static IP at cable connections (DHCP lease time is somewhere 2030 - i have my IP since over a year now) and Blizznet/D-Light (FTTH providers) use only static IPs. Hotze and I3B have IPv6 - The BIG ones (UPC, Telekom) have no IPv6 at all, neither for private nor for business customers. Now the more interesting part, the mobile networks. We have the "usual bunch": Three (Drei) Orange (was: One) A1 (Telekom owned) T-Mobile Tele.Ring (was: Max Mobil) Three by default NATs any customer in 3G services in 10.x - You can disable this at their customer panel and thus obtain a public IP which is a very nice feature and surely helps to save IPs. Orange NATs in 192.168.x and seems to use public IPs sometimes when you are on EDGE - Business customers can obtain a static IPv4 for 1EUR / month. A1 uses NAT exclusively TMobile/Tele.Ring seem to use NAT also but i didn't try them. As you can see much here is based on NAT (at least mobile)? now you may ask, what about IPv6? Simply, IPv6 is not offered by ANY ISP here. My best guess is that maybe 100k, if not less, people in Austria use or are able to use IPv6 (either native or tunneled). -- William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh william at edisglobal.com | william at edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net Network in: Austria - Germany - France - Italy - Poland - UK - Netherlands - USA - Hong Kong EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC Graz, Austria Am 05.06.2012 um 09:55 schrieb Gert Doering: > Hi, > > On Tue, Jun 05, 2012 at 01:54:09AM +0200, Lu Heng wrote: >> In which, tells us that if US can free us even half of it's IP address >> space, that will supply us maybe another decades. > > This would be very ill-spent effort. > > If we do the same stupid things a few more decades, like "write new software > with IPv4 only, sell millions of phones and other gadgets with IPv4 only", > migration to something reasonable will be much *harder*. > > If we had done the IPv6 thing 5 years ago already, hardly any mobile > device would have been affected - today, there's millions of iThings and > Androids that don't support IPv6 on 3G - stupid and avoidable pain. > > Gert Doering > -- NetMaster > -- > have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? > > SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann > D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) > Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dariusz.margas at gazeta.pl Wed Jun 6 22:34:00 2012 From: dariusz.margas at gazeta.pl (Dariusz Margas) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2012 06:34:00 +1000 (EST) Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: <9BA11260-8B4E-410E-846E-4C609E675DF9@edisglobal.com> References: <20120605075502.GQ84425@Space.Net> <9BA11260-8B4E-410E-846E-4C609E675DF9@edisglobal.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jun 2012, William Weber wrote: > As far as i can see my iPhone (4, newest iOS) obtains an IPv6 by DHCP6 from my carrier over 3G so it *should* be able to use it. > All my devices (iPhone, iPad, Android phone, my old Nokia even) get (and use + prefer) IPv6 in my home Wifi by DHCP6 from my Netgear router (which then tunnels to he.net since > UPC Austria has no IPv6 officially). To be exact - IPs are being given by RA not DHCP. Regards D.M. From h.lu at outsideheaven.com Wed Jun 6 23:38:03 2012 From: h.lu at outsideheaven.com (Lu Heng) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 23:38:03 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: References: <20120605075502.GQ84425@Space.Net> <9BA11260-8B4E-410E-846E-4C609E675DF9@edisglobal.com> Message-ID: Hi Thanks everybody for the discussion. Just want to make one point clear, I have no objection against developing IPv6 and implantation it, and in fact, in our business face, we are looking forward to develop IPv6. as I come across an article that has few interesting number on it, and as today is the world IPv6 day, I think it might be worth a bit to see if we can forecast the future better than we did yesterday. But again, IPv6 is the future and everybody should go for it. With regards. Lu On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Dariusz Margas wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jun 2012, William Weber wrote: > > > As far as i can see my iPhone (4, newest iOS) obtains an IPv6 by DHCP6 > from my carrier over 3G so it *should* be able to use it. > > All my devices (iPhone, iPad, Android phone, my old Nokia even) get (and > use + prefer) IPv6 in my home Wifi by DHCP6 from my Netgear router (which > then tunnels to he.net since > > UPC Austria has no IPv6 officially). > > To be exact - IPs are being given by RA not DHCP. > > Regards > D.M. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > -- This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this message and including the text of the transmission received. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter at fiberdirekt.se Wed Jun 6 22:57:56 2012 From: peter at fiberdirekt.se (Peter Linder) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2012 22:57:56 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] [tech] Interesting IP count In-Reply-To: <64D23D4DB42E1C46B0655D4DF4EEA5B92310C739@Oram-EXMBOX02.ad.orangearmenia.am> References: <02ca01cd4324$0444e500$0cceaf00$@golding@othellotech.net> <64D23D4DB42E1C46B0655D4DF4EEA5B92310C739@Oram-EXMBOX02.ad.orangearmenia.am> Message-ID: Yes, this is what it boils down to, pretty much. There have been so many workarounds deployed with the goal to give people more time to deploy proper ipv6, yet the majority are doing nothing. I guess it is not hurting enough yet? Skickat fr?n min iPhone 6 jun 2012 kl. 09:06 skrev Alexandr Saroyan : > Hi, > > Dear friends, > > Don't forget that idea of the Internet is that each single host should be able to communicate to any other single host. > > I strongly believe and I think everyone on this mailing list sure that there are many approaches to live with IPv4. > It is time to understand that all that are temporary solutions. > > Your life will become more and more hard if you go deeper and deeper with temporary solutions. > > There is class of "Specialists" for whom it is easier to deploy a temporary solution and say 'Hah it works' instead of making a bit effort to deploy something permanent. > > Each LIR is piece of the Internet - don't trust strategy of your piece to such lazy "Specialists". Don't think like "I need a solution", think like "I need stable, reliable and long lasting solution". > > > Internet is in production service, it is not your grandmother's home LAN, each of you must feel responsibility. > > Temporary solution is bad for production and permanent solution is only and only good thing for growth and stability of any production system like Internet is. > > And finally: Stop counting IP addresses, just do your contribution to IPv6 deployment by deploying it within your piece of the Internet. As fast as we converge to IPv6 as fast we will remove all the bad stuff like NAT and will finally stop counting IP addresses. > > > > Best. > /Alex > > > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Rob Golding > Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 6:04 PM > To: members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Interesting IP count > > Lu Heng wrote ... > >> So, US are using 40% of total world IP supply for it's 10% of world >> internet user base, while asian for years, is using about 10% of world >> IP address to supply 40% of internet user base. >> >> In which, tells us that if US can free us even half of it's IP address >> space, that will supply us maybe another decades. > > You make a *very* incorrect assumption: > > That the main use of IP addresses is "access" to the internet - completely > ignoring all the devices/systems/networks/etc that hold those services you > are accessing - the bulk of which are in the EU and US. > > IPv6 is not a new idea. Dual-Stacking is not a new idea. > > IMHO if you're still deploying systems and devices that only work v4 your > business is about to die - attaching a bit of NAT based life-support isn't > going to save it. > > Rob > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > From giuseppe at serverplan.com Wed Jun 13 22:45:10 2012 From: giuseppe at serverplan.com (Giuseppe Tanzilli - Serverplan) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:45:10 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working from ripe DNS server Message-ID: <4FD8FBD6.90003@serverplan.com> Hi, after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? thanks -- -------------------------------------------------- Giuseppe Tanzilli Serverplan From bogus@does.not.exist.com Thu Jun 14 01:06:24 2012 From: bogus@does.not.exist.com () Date: 13 Jun 2012 23:06:24 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server Message-ID: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From raymond at prolocation.net Thu Jun 14 08:31:13 2012 From: raymond at prolocation.net (Raymond Dijkxhoorn) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:31:13 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> Message-ID: Hi! > after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one > network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. > > Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. > > Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? Jun 14 07:23:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:24:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:26:06 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:27:09 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:38:10 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 202.12.28.140 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust This still was happening on several zones up to one hour ago. Since this is impacting the real world pretty badly i would expect a bit more fuzz. Mailflows are impacted with this, providers rejecting mails due to missing and/or invalid rdns... Bye, Raymond. From felix.schueren at hosteurope.de Thu Jun 14 01:02:47 2012 From: felix.schueren at hosteurope.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felix_Sch=FCren?=) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 01:02:47 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working from ripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD8FBD6.90003@serverplan.com> References: <4FD8FBD6.90003@serverplan.com> Message-ID: <4FD91C17.5050109@hosteurope.de> > > Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? I don't know a way to contact them, but as a desperate measure you could try deleting & recreating the reverse delegation ripe object? You've got nothing to lose ;) Kind regards, Felix From f.erdenreich at erdenreich.net Thu Jun 14 09:24:13 2012 From: f.erdenreich at erdenreich.net (Erdenreich, Florian) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:24:13 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, Message-ID: <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> Hi, we have got the same problems with 213.165.96/19 Mit freundlichem Gru?, Florian Erdenreich Dipl.-Inf.(FH) ------------------------------------- Erdenreich Datentechnik ...the way your net works Jesuitenstra?e 9 85049 Ingolstadt Tel: +49 841 9933909-0 Fax:+49 841 9933909-10 [Inhaber: Dipl.-Inf.(FH) Florian Erdenreich, UST-ID DE814774620 Steuer-Nr: 154 215 40192] ________________________________________ Von: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net]" im Auftrag von "Raymond Dijkxhoorn [raymond at prolocation.net] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2012 08:31 An: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net Cc: J?rgen Hovland; members-discuss at ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server Hi! > after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one > network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. > > Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. > > Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? Jun 14 07:23:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:24:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:26:06 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:27:09 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:38:10 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 202.12.28.140 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust This still was happening on several zones up to one hour ago. Since this is impacting the real world pretty badly i would expect a bit more fuzz. Mailflows are impacted with this, providers rejecting mails due to missing and/or invalid rdns... Bye, Raymond. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From jogi at mur.at Thu Jun 14 10:13:17 2012 From: jogi at mur.at (Jogi =?utf-8?Q?Hofm=C3=BCller?=) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:13:17 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working from ripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD8FBD6.90003@serverplan.com> References: <4FD8FBD6.90003@serverplan.com> Message-ID: <20120614081317.GT10947@kathy> Folks, FWIW: We (89.106.208.0/21) experience the same problems. On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:45:10PM +0200, Giuseppe Tanzilli - Serverplan wrote: > after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one > network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. What are you referring to? Could it be that I missed some info here? > Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. Agreed ;) Regards, j. -- j.hofm?ller http://users.mur.at/thesix/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From giuseppe at serverplan.com Thu Jun 14 10:22:35 2012 From: giuseppe at serverplan.com (Giuseppe Tanzilli - Serverplan) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:22:35 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> Message-ID: <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> Hi, we solved the reverse issue updating the delegation object in ripe database, modified just the changed field, few minutes later the zone was visible. Hope that helps. Anyway I think we must ask RIPE NCC for a H24 techical phone number for events like this, every provider has an H24 service for issues of this magnitude. It is not acceptable that ripe ncc, does not have one. Giuseppe Il 14/06/2012 09:24, Erdenreich, Florian ha scritto: > Hi, > > we have got the same problems with 213.165.96/19 > > Mit freundlichem Gru?, > > > Florian Erdenreich > Dipl.-Inf.(FH) > > ------------------------------------- > Erdenreich Datentechnik > ...the way your net works > > Jesuitenstra?e 9 > 85049 Ingolstadt > Tel: +49 841 9933909-0 > Fax:+49 841 9933909-10 > > [Inhaber: Dipl.-Inf.(FH) Florian Erdenreich, > UST-ID DE814774620 Steuer-Nr: 154 215 40192] > > > ________________________________________ > Von: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net]" im Auftrag von"Raymond Dijkxhoorn [raymond at prolocation.net] > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2012 08:31 > An: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > Cc: J?rgen Hovland; members-discuss at ripe.net > Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server > > Hi! > >> after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one >> network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. >> >> Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. >> >> Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? > Jun 14 07:23:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:24:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:26:06 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:27:09 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:38:10 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from > 202.12.28.140 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust > > This still was happening on several zones up to one hour ago. Since this > is impacting the real world pretty badly i would expect a bit more fuzz. > Mailflows are impacted with this, providers rejecting mails due to missing > and/or invalid rdns... > > Bye, > Raymond. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- -------------------------------------------------- Giuseppe Tanzilli Serverplan From erik at bais.name Thu Jun 14 10:46:42 2012 From: erik at bais.name (Erik Bais) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:46:42 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> Message-ID: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> > Anyway I think we must ask RIPE NCC for a H24 techical phone number for events like this, every provider has an H24 service for issues of this magnitude. > It is not acceptable that ripe ncc, does not have one. As RIPE is also connected to the internet (and the AMS-iX for instance) I'm pretty sure that they have a 24*7 standby already in place. People from the team of Romeo Zwart are mentioned in the peeringdb for AS AS25152 as contacts. ( the AS for the K-root servers ) http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/staff/gii And according to the company structure (http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/staff/ripe-ncc-staff-structure) they fall under the Chief Scientist Daniel Karrenberg. As Romeo recently joined RIPE, this might be a nice moment to introduce himself to the community and provide some insight in his new role and if his team doesn't provide the 24*7 emergency contact, who is. And how they are doing this or going to do this. (Sorry to put you on the spot here mate ... ) Regards, Erik Bais From igor.grinevich at vegatele.com Thu Jun 14 10:49:15 2012 From: igor.grinevich at vegatele.com (igor.grinevich at vegatele.com) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:49:15 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> Message-ID: <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> Hi! We have the same issue with some reverse zones ??.??.212.in-addr.arpa. Does anyone get a feedback about the probleb from Ripe? Regards, Igor Grinevich Vega -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Raymond Dijkxhoorn Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 9:31 AM To: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net Cc: J?rgen Hovland; members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server Hi! > after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one > network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. > > Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. > > Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? Jun 14 07:23:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:24:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:26:06 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:27:09 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:38:10 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 202.12.28.140 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust This still was happening on several zones up to one hour ago. Since this is impacting the real world pretty badly i would expect a bit more fuzz. Mailflows are impacted with this, providers rejecting mails due to missing and/or invalid rdns... Bye, Raymond. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From f.erdenreich at erdenreich.net Thu Jun 14 10:23:52 2012 From: f.erdenreich at erdenreich.net (Erdenreich, Florian) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:23:52 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> Message-ID: <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1E58@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> Hi, I 've phoned with the RIPE NCC. The problem is known and will be fixed shortly... Mit freundlichen Gr??en, Florian Erdenreich Dipl.-Inf.(FH) ========================================================== Support: (Mo.-Fr. 08:30 - 12:00 und 13:00 - 18:00): 0841 / 99 33 909-0 Erdenreich Datentechnik ...the way your net works Jesuitenstra?e 9 85049 Ingolstadt Tel: +49 841 99 33 909-0 Fax: +49 841 99 33 909-10 Inhaber: Dipl.-Inf.(FH) Florian Erdenreich, UST-ID: DE814774620 Steuer-Nr: 154 215 40192 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Giuseppe Tanzilli - Serverplan [mailto:giuseppe at serverplan.com] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2012 10:23 An: Erdenreich, Florian Cc: Raymond Dijkxhoorn; members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net; J?rgen Hovland; members-discuss at ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server Hi, we solved the reverse issue updating the delegation object in ripe database, modified just the changed field, few minutes later the zone was visible. Hope that helps. Anyway I think we must ask RIPE NCC for a H24 techical phone number for events like this, every provider has an H24 service for issues of this magnitude. It is not acceptable that ripe ncc, does not have one. Giuseppe Il 14/06/2012 09:24, Erdenreich, Florian ha scritto: > Hi, > > we have got the same problems with 213.165.96/19 > > Mit freundlichem Gru?, > > > Florian Erdenreich > Dipl.-Inf.(FH) > > ------------------------------------- > Erdenreich Datentechnik > ...the way your net works > > Jesuitenstra?e 9 > 85049 Ingolstadt > Tel: +49 841 9933909-0 > Fax:+49 841 9933909-10 > > [Inhaber: Dipl.-Inf.(FH) Florian Erdenreich, UST-ID DE814774620 > Steuer-Nr: 154 215 40192] > > > ________________________________________ > Von: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > [members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net]" im Auftrag von"Raymond > Dijkxhoorn [raymond at prolocation.net] > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2012 08:31 > An: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > Cc: J?rgen Hovland; members-discuss at ripe.net > Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not > working fromripe DNS server > > Hi! > >> after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have >> one network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. >> >> Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. >> >> Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? > Jun 14 07:23:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust Jun 14 07:24:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: > validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for > validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a > previous validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no > NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while > building chain of trust Jun 14 07:26:06 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] > info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key > for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a > previous validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no > NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while > building chain of trust Jun 14 07:27:09 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] > info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key > for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a > previous validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no > NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while > building chain of trust Jun 14 07:38:10 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] > info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no > NSEC3 records from > 202.12.28.140 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of > trust > > This still was happening on several zones up to one hour ago. Since > this is impacting the real world pretty badly i would expect a bit more fuzz. > Mailflows are impacted with this, providers rejecting mails due to > missing and/or invalid rdns... > > Bye, > Raymond. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- -------------------------------------------------- Giuseppe Tanzilli Serverplan From dburns at utelisys.com Thu Jun 14 10:29:06 2012 From: dburns at utelisys.com (Danny Burns) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:29:06 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> Message-ID: Agreed ! -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Giuseppe Tanzilli - Serverplan Sent: 14 June 2012 10:23 To: Erdenreich, Florian Cc: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net; Raymond Dijkxhoorn; members-discuss at ripe.net; J?rgen Hovland Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server Hi, we solved the reverse issue updating the delegation object in ripe database, modified just the changed field, few minutes later the zone was visible. Hope that helps. Anyway I think we must ask RIPE NCC for a H24 techical phone number for events like this, every provider has an H24 service for issues of this magnitude. It is not acceptable that ripe ncc, does not have one. Giuseppe Il 14/06/2012 09:24, Erdenreich, Florian ha scritto: > Hi, > > we have got the same problems with 213.165.96/19 > > Mit freundlichem Gru?, > > > Florian Erdenreich > Dipl.-Inf.(FH) > > ------------------------------------- > Erdenreich Datentechnik > ...the way your net works > > Jesuitenstra?e 9 > 85049 Ingolstadt > Tel: +49 841 9933909-0 > Fax:+49 841 9933909-10 > > [Inhaber: Dipl.-Inf.(FH) Florian Erdenreich, > UST-ID DE814774620 Steuer-Nr: 154 215 40192] > > > ________________________________________ > Von: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net]" im Auftrag von"Raymond Dijkxhoorn [raymond at prolocation.net] > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2012 08:31 > An: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > Cc: J?rgen Hovland; members-discuss at ripe.net > Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server > > Hi! > >> after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one >> network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. >> >> Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. >> >> Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? > Jun 14 07:23:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:24:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:26:06 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:27:09 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:38:10 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from > 202.12.28.140 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust > > This still was happening on several zones up to one hour ago. Since this > is impacting the real world pretty badly i would expect a bit more fuzz. > Mailflows are impacted with this, providers rejecting mails due to missing > and/or invalid rdns... > > Bye, > Raymond. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- -------------------------------------------------- Giuseppe Tanzilli Serverplan ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From anders at spacedump.se Thu Jun 14 10:52:51 2012 From: anders at spacedump.se (Anders Olausson) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:52:51 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> Message-ID: Hi, They have a post on facebook. http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regarding-the-reverse-dns-services-issues Doesn't mention 212.in-addr.arpa. though (I have a range in that scope too and I also have the same problem). Regards Anders Olausson - SpaceDump IT AB > Does anyone get a feedback about the probleb from Ripe? From dyr at smartspb.net Thu Jun 14 10:36:50 2012 From: dyr at smartspb.net (Dennis Yusupoff) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:36:50 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] RIPE 24/7 emergency contact needed In-Reply-To: <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> Message-ID: <4FD9A2A2.50302@smartspb.net> 14.06.2012 12:22, Giuseppe Tanzilli - Serverplan ???????: > Anyway I think we must ask RIPE NCC for a H24 techical phone number for > events like this, > every provider has an H24 service for issues of this magnitude. > > It is not acceptable that ripe ncc, does not have one. +1, good idea. -- With best regards, Dennis Yusupoff, network engineer of Smart-Telecom ISP Russia, Saint-Petersburg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ahmedr at qnetstaff.com Thu Jun 14 11:03:20 2012 From: ahmedr at qnetstaff.com (Ahmed Abdulraheem) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:03:20 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> Message-ID: Hello, I have called RIPE and they informed that they will fix this problem today,I am agreed to to you all that we should get 24/7 RIPE support Regards, Eng.Ahmad Abdul Rahim System Administrator S.A Department Tel.+965-808888-380 Qualitynet Co. -----members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net wrote: ----- To: "igor.grinevich at vegatele.com" , Raymond Dijkxhoorn , "members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net" From: Anders Olausson Sent by: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net Date: 06/14/2012 12:00PM Cc: J?rgen Hovland , "members-discuss at ripe.net" Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server Hi, They have a post on facebook. http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regarding-the-reverse-dns-services-issues Doesn't mention 212.in-addr.arpa. though (I have a range in that scope too and I also have the same problem). Regards Anders Olausson - SpaceDump IT AB > Does anyone get a feedback about the probleb from Ripe? ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From m.klaver at luna.nl Thu Jun 14 10:31:58 2012 From: m.klaver at luna.nl (Michiel Klaver) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:31:58 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> Message-ID: If I remember correctly, there should be a mail-address sos at ripe.net and ops at ripe.net for this kind of urgent/technical issues. -----Original message----- Hi, we solved the reverse issue updating the delegation object in ripe database, modified just the changed field, few minutes later the zone was visible. Hope that helps. Anyway I think we must ask RIPE NCC for a H24 techical phone number for events like this, every provider has an H24 service for issues of this magnitude. It is not acceptable that ripe ncc, does not have one. Giuseppe Il 14/06/2012 09:24, Erdenreich, Florian ha scritto: > Hi, > > we have got the same problems with 213.165.96/19 > > Mit freundlichem Gru?, > > > Florian Erdenreich > Dipl.-Inf.(FH) > > ------------------------------------- > Erdenreich Datentechnik > ...the way your net works > > Jesuitenstra?e 9 > 85049 Ingolstadt > Tel: +49 841 9933909-0 > Fax:+49 841 9933909-10 > > [Inhaber: Dipl.-Inf.(FH) Florian Erdenreich, > UST-ID DE814774620 Steuer-Nr: 154 215 40192] > > > ________________________________________ > Von: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net >[members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net]" im Auftrag von"Raymond >Dijkxhoorn [raymond at prolocation.net] > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2012 08:31 > An: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > Cc: J?rgen Hovland; members-discuss at ripe.net > Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not >working fromripe DNS server > > Hi! > >> after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one >> network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. >> >> Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. >> >> Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? > Jun 14 07:23:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:24:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:26:06 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:27:09 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure<102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:38:10 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from > 202.12.28.140 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust > > This still was happening on several zones up to one hour ago. Since this > is impacting the real world pretty badly i would expect a bit more fuzz. > Mailflows are impacted with this, providers rejecting mails due to >missing > and/or invalid rdns... > > Bye, > Raymond. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >here, you can add or remove addresses. -- -------------------------------------------------- Giuseppe Tanzilli Serverplan ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From fs at hosteurope.de Thu Jun 14 10:47:43 2012 From: fs at hosteurope.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Felix_Sch=FCren?=) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:47:43 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working from ripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <20120614081317.GT10947@kathy> References: <4FD8FBD6.90003@serverplan.com> <20120614081317.GT10947@kathy> Message-ID: <4FD9A52F.4000406@hosteurope.de> Hi, >> after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one >> network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. > > What are you referring to? Could it be that I missed some info here? > Here's the RIPE announcements regarding this: http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/reverse-dns-services-issues http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regarding-the-reverse-dns-services-issues RIPE managed to remove or misconfigure at least a large part of reverse delegations from dns.ripe.net on 2012/06/13, which basically lead to NXDOMAIN responses for queries for in-addr.arpa, which in turn broke stuff for affected parties, with the most prominent affected service being mail. And restoring the config data seems to have "mostly worked" so far, with some zones still not being restored or apparently being incorrectly restored... It's high time that RIPE issues a RFO and also a working high-priority hotline for still affected parties. :( Regards, Felix From matthias.cramer at iway.ch Thu Jun 14 11:10:48 2012 From: matthias.cramer at iway.ch (Matthias Cramer) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:10:48 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> Message-ID: <4FD9AA98.40507@iway.ch> Hi We also see problems in 212.in-addr.arpa. So it seams that this zone is realy affected. Regards Matthais On 14/06/12 10:52, Anders Olausson wrote: > Hi, > > They have a post on facebook. > http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regarding-the-reverse-dns-services-issues > > Doesn't mention 212.in-addr.arpa. though (I have a range in that scope too and I also have the same problem). > > Regards > Anders Olausson - SpaceDump IT AB > >> Does anyone get a feedback about the probleb from Ripe? > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Matthias Cramer / mc322-ripe Senior Network & Security Engineer iway AG Phone +41 43 500 1111 Badenerstrasse 569 Fax +41 44 271 3535 CH-8048 Z?rich http://www.iway.ch/ GnuPG 1024D/2D208250 = DBC6 65B6 7083 1029 781E 3959 B62F DF1C 2D20 8250 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 254 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jarek at swiftinter.net Thu Jun 14 10:52:53 2012 From: jarek at swiftinter.net ([Swift Internet] Jarek Grzabel) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:52:53 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> Message-ID: <4FD9A665.2080108@swiftinter.net> Hi, Our zones are OK now. I created a ticket with them yesterday around 8PM BST and heard nothing back from them since. Unless I sent it to the wrong email address ;-(. It would be nice to know exactly what happened and what steps they are going to take to prevent this in the future. Regards, Jarek [ Swift Internet ] [ www.swiftinter.net ] [ Follow us on Twitter ] [ http://twitter.com/swiftinternet ] [ Check the latest updates on NOC ] [ http://noc.swiftinter.net ] [ tel: 0121 222 0500 ] [ fax: 0121 222 0510 ] [ support at swiftinter.net ] Linux registered user #368058 On 06/14/12 09:49, igor.grinevich at vegatele.com wrote: > Hi! > > We have the same issue with some reverse zones ??.??.212.in-addr.arpa. > Does anyone get a feedback about the probleb from Ripe? > > > Regards, > Igor Grinevich > Vega > > > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Raymond Dijkxhoorn > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 9:31 AM > To: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > Cc: J?rgen Hovland; members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server > > Hi! > >> after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one >> network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. >> >> Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. >> >> Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? > Jun 14 07:23:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:24:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:26:06 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:27:09 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:38:10 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from > 202.12.28.140 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust > > This still was happening on several zones up to one hour ago. Since this is impacting the real world pretty badly i would expect a bit more fuzz. > Mailflows are impacted with this, providers rejecting mails due to missing and/or invalid rdns... > > Bye, > Raymond. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leland at gandi.net Thu Jun 14 11:13:21 2012 From: leland at gandi.net (Leland Vandervort) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:13:21 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> Message-ID: <9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net> Similar for us, but only impacting our IPv6 netblock. Leland Vandervort Gandi SAS 63-65 Boulevard Massena 75013 Paris, France WWW: http://www.gandi.net/ T: +33 1 70 39 37 59 M: +33 6 31 15 15 07 On 14 Jun 2012, at 11:03, Ahmed Abdulraheem wrote: > Hello, > I have called RIPE and they informed that they will fix this problem today,I am agreed to to you all that we should get 24/7 RIPE support > > Regards, > > > Eng.Ahmad Abdul Rahim > System Administrator > S.A Department > Tel.+965-808888-380 > Qualitynet Co. > > > -----members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net wrote: ----- > To: "igor.grinevich at vegatele.com" , Raymond Dijkxhoorn , "members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net" > From: Anders Olausson > Sent by: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > Date: 06/14/2012 12:00PM > Cc: J?rgen Hovland , "members-discuss at ripe.net" > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server > > Hi, > > They have a post on facebook. > http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regarding-the-reverse-dns-services-issues > > Doesn't mention 212.in-addr.arpa. though (I have a range in that scope too and I also have the same problem). > > Regards > Anders Olausson - SpaceDump IT AB > >> Does anyone get a feedback about the probleb from Ripe? > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From neufeind at speedpartner.de Thu Jun 14 11:02:16 2012 From: neufeind at speedpartner.de (Stefan Neufeind, SpeedPartner) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:02:16 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] RIPE 24/7 emergency contact needed In-Reply-To: <4FD9A2A2.50302@smartspb.net> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <4FD9A2A2.50302@smartspb.net> Message-ID: <4FD9A898.30403@speedpartner.de> On 06/14/2012 10:36 AM, Dennis Yusupoff wrote: > > 14.06.2012 12:22, Giuseppe Tanzilli - Serverplan ???????: >> Anyway I think we must ask RIPE NCC for a H24 techical phone number for >> events like this, >> every provider has an H24 service for issues of this magnitude. >> >> It is not acceptable that ripe ncc, does not have one. > +1, good idea. I expect they already have some kind of "noc"? Imagine what might happen if people really start to use ressource-certification (I personally don't like the idea behind those signatures) and on a Friday the whole internet goes down because all routes from the RIPE-region are invalid .-) Kind regards, Stefan Neufeind PS: This is just my personal opinion, not necessarily the one of my employer. From d.mikhlevich at vtt.net Thu Jun 14 10:12:55 2012 From: d.mikhlevich at vtt.net (Denis S. Mikhlevich) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:12:55 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> Message-ID: <4FD99D07.1020703@vtt.net> Hi, we have got the same problems with 213.80.128.0/17 14.06.2012 11:24, Erdenreich, Florian ???????: > Hi, > > we have got the same problems with 213.165.96/19 > > Mit freundlichem Gru?, > > > Florian Erdenreich > Dipl.-Inf.(FH) > > ------------------------------------- > Erdenreich Datentechnik > ...the way your net works > > Jesuitenstra?e 9 > 85049 Ingolstadt > Tel: +49 841 9933909-0 > Fax:+49 841 9933909-10 > > [Inhaber: Dipl.-Inf.(FH) Florian Erdenreich, > UST-ID DE814774620 Steuer-Nr: 154 215 40192] > > > ________________________________________ > Von: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net]" im Auftrag von "Raymond Dijkxhoorn [raymond at prolocation.net] > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2012 08:31 > An: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > Cc: J?rgen Hovland; members-discuss at ripe.net > Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server > > Hi! > >> after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one >> network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. >> >> Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. >> >> Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? > > Jun 14 07:23:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:24:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:26:06 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:27:09 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation > 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous > validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 > records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building > chain of trust > Jun 14 07:38:10 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure > <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from > 202.12.28.140 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust > > This still was happening on several zones up to one hour ago. Since this > is impacting the real world pretty badly i would expect a bit more fuzz. > Mailflows are impacted with this, providers rejecting mails due to missing > and/or invalid rdns... > > Bye, > Raymond. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- ? ?????????, ??????? ??????? ??????? ???????????? IP-???? ? ?????????????? ????? ??? "???-?????" ????? ???????? ?.???: (8452) 39-45-19 ?.???: (937) 222-90-84 From job at instituut.net Thu Jun 14 11:22:29 2012 From: job at instituut.net (Job Snijders) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:22:29 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net> References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> <9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net> Message-ID: <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> Hi All, I can imagine it would be VERY useful for RIPE NCC debugging if you specify WHICH zone exactly is still affected. Just mailing "works for me" or "doesn't work for me" doesn't narrow it down. Kind regards, Job -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4867 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zoe at hotchilli.com Thu Jun 14 10:59:11 2012 From: zoe at hotchilli.com (Zoe O'Connell) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:59:11 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> Message-ID: <4FD9A7DF.5060509@hotchilli.com> Same here, 212.0.0.0/8 is impacted and causing us problems - I'm trying the workaround of editing the database entries that someone else suggested and that seems to work so far. On 14/06/12 09:49, igor.grinevich at vegatele.com wrote: > Hi! > > We have the same issue with some reverse zones ??.??.212.in-addr.arpa. > Does anyone get a feedback about the probleb from Ripe? > > > Regards, > Igor Grinevich > Vega > > > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Raymond Dijkxhoorn > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 9:31 AM > To: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net > Cc: J?rgen Hovland; members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server > > Hi! > >> after the issue the ripe services had today evening, we still have one >> network whre delegation for reverse is still not working. >> >> Of course this is a nightmare as all mail traffic is affected. >> >> Anyone know a way to contact ripe support outside of office hours ? > Jun 14 07:23:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:24:47 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:26:06 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:27:09 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: key for validation 179.212.in-addr.arpa. is marked as invalid because of a previous validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from 192.134.0.49 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust Jun 14 07:38:10 infra20 unbound: [6960:1] info: validation failure <102.162.179.212.in-addr.arpa. PTR IN>: no NSEC3 records from > 202.12.28.140 for DS 179.212.in-addr.arpa. while building chain of trust > > This still was happening on several zones up to one hour ago. Since this is impacting the real world pretty badly i would expect a bit more fuzz. > Mailflows are impacted with this, providers rejecting mails due to missing and/or invalid rdns... > > Bye, > Raymond. > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From matthias.cramer at iway.ch Thu Jun 14 11:25:29 2012 From: matthias.cramer at iway.ch (Matthias Cramer) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:25:29 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> <9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net> <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> Message-ID: <4FD9AE09.8080309@iway.ch> Hi All God point... We have problems with 212.25.0.0/19, all 32 reverse delegations seam to be broken. Regards Matthias On 14/06/12 11:22, Job Snijders wrote: > Hi All, > > I can imagine it would be VERY useful for RIPE NCC debugging if you specify WHICH zone exactly is still affected. Just mailing "works for me" or "doesn't work for me" doesn't narrow it down. > > Kind regards, > > Job > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Matthias Cramer / mc322-ripe Senior Network & Security Engineer iway AG Phone +41 43 500 1111 Badenerstrasse 569 Fax +41 44 271 3535 CH-8048 Z?rich http://www.iway.ch/ GnuPG 1024D/2D208250 = DBC6 65B6 7083 1029 781E 3959 B62F DF1C 2D20 8250 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 254 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From f.erdenreich at erdenreich.net Thu Jun 14 11:27:04 2012 From: f.erdenreich at erdenreich.net (Erdenreich, Florian) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:27:04 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD9AE09.8080309@iway.ch> References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> <9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net> <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> <4FD9AE09.8080309@iway.ch> Message-ID: <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F2052@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> Hi all We have problems with 213.165.96/19. The whole /19 's rdns is broken. Mit freundlichen Gr??en, Florian Erdenreich Dipl.-Inf.(FH) ========================================================== Support: (Mo.-Fr. 08:30 - 12:00 und 13:00 - 18:00): 0841 / 99 33 909-0 Erdenreich Datentechnik ...the way your net works Jesuitenstra?e 9 85049 Ingolstadt Tel: +49 841 99 33 909-0 Fax: +49 841 99 33 909-10 Inhaber: Dipl.-Inf.(FH) Florian Erdenreich, UST-ID: DE814774620 Steuer-Nr: 154 215 40192 -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] Im Auftrag von Matthias Cramer Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Juni 2012 11:25 An: members-discuss at ripe.net Betreff: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server Hi All God point... We have problems with 212.25.0.0/19, all 32 reverse delegations seam to be broken. Regards Matthias On 14/06/12 11:22, Job Snijders wrote: > Hi All, > > I can imagine it would be VERY useful for RIPE NCC debugging if you specify WHICH zone exactly is still affected. Just mailing "works for me" or "doesn't work for me" doesn't narrow it down. > > Kind regards, > > Job > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Matthias Cramer / mc322-ripe Senior Network & Security Engineer iway AG Phone +41 43 500 1111 Badenerstrasse 569 Fax +41 44 271 3535 CH-8048 Z?rich http://www.iway.ch/ GnuPG 1024D/2D208250 = DBC6 65B6 7083 1029 781E 3959 B62F DF1C 2D20 8250 From members-discuss at nepustil.net Thu Jun 14 10:47:50 2012 From: members-discuss at nepustil.net (members-discuss at nepustil.net) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:47:50 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> Message-ID: <20120614084750.GE99758@complx.nepustil.net> Hi! > we solved the reverse issue updating the delegation object in ripe > database, modified just the changed field, > few minutes later the zone was visible. I'm probably not the only one testing this right now 8-} Did not yet work 8-( -- MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger 8 years to go ! Dr.-Ing. Nepustil & Co. GmbH fon +49 7123 93006-0 pi at nepustil.net Rathausstr. 3 fax +49 7123 93006-99 72658 Bempflingen mob +49 171 3101372 From enrico.corneo at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 11:22:56 2012 From: enrico.corneo at gmail.com (Enrico Corneo) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:22:56 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> Message-ID: Me too I have the same problem on 78.212.in-addr.arpa. Bye -- Enrico Corneo enrico.corneo at gmail.com Skype aste83 On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:52 AM, Anders Olausson wrote: > Hi, > > They have a post on facebook. > http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regarding-the-reverse-dns-services-issues > > Doesn't mention 212.in-addr.arpa. though (I have a range in that scope too and I also have the same problem). > > Regards > ?Anders Olausson - SpaceDump IT AB > >> Does anyone get a feedback about the probleb ?from Ripe? > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From madams at netcologne.de Thu Jun 14 11:27:28 2012 From: madams at netcologne.de (Michael Adams) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:27:28 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> <9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net> <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> Message-ID: <4FD9AE80.7040903@netcologne.de> Hi, affected are: 86.117.212.in-addr.arpa 103.168.213.in-addr.arpa 124.168.213.in-addr.arpa Sending an update changed nothing so far. HTH, Michael Am 14.06.2012 11:22, schrieb Job Snijders: > Hi All, > > I can imagine it would be VERY useful for RIPE NCC debugging if you specify WHICH zone exactly is still affected. Just mailing "works for me" or "doesn't work for me" doesn't narrow it down. > > Kind regards, > > Job > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > -- Michael Adams Tel: +49 221 2222 657 Network Engineering& Design Fax: +49 221 2222 7657 NetCologne Gesch?ftsf?hrer Gesellschaft f?r Telekommunikation mbH Dr. Hans Konle (Sprecher) Am Coloneum 9 Dipl.-Ing. Karl-Heinz Zankel 50829 K?ln HRB 25580, Amtsgericht K?ln From onstage at onstage.at Thu Jun 14 11:30:13 2012 From: onstage at onstage.at (Clemens Schmikal) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:30:13 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD9A7DF.5060509@hotchilli.com> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> <4FD9A7DF.5060509@hotchilli.com> Message-ID: <4FD9AF25.90209@onstage.at> Hi, same issues there, i?ve updatet the 236.212.in-addr.arpa - maybe that fixes... greetings, Clemens Am 14.06.2012 10:59, schrieb Zoe O'Connell: > Same here, 212.0.0.0/8 is impacted and causing us problems - I'm trying > the workaround of editing the database entries that someone else > suggested and that seems to work so far. > From noc at netcologne.de Thu Jun 14 11:41:30 2012 From: noc at netcologne.de (Michael Adams) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:41:30 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> <9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net> <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> Message-ID: <4FD9B1CA.4070902@netcologne.de> Hi, affected are: 86.117.212.in-addr.arpa 103.168.213.in-addr.arpa 124.168.213.in-addr.arpa Sending an update changed nothing so far. HTH, Michael Am 14.06.2012 11:22, schrieb Job Snijders: > Hi All, > > I can imagine it would be VERY useful for RIPE NCC debugging if you specify WHICH zone exactly is still affected. Just mailing "works for me" or "doesn't work for me" doesn't narrow it down. > > Kind regards, > > Job > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > -- Michael Adams Tel: +49 221 2222 657 Network Engineering& Design Fax: +49 221 2222 7657 NetCologne Gesch?ftsf?hrer Gesellschaft f?r Telekommunikation mbH Dr. Hans Konle (Sprecher) Am Coloneum 9 Dipl.-Ing. Karl-Heinz Zankel 50829 K?ln HRB 25580, Amtsgericht K?ln -- Michael Adams Tel: +49 221 2222 657 Network Engineering& Design Fax: +49 221 2222 7657 NetCologne Gesch?ftsf?hrer Gesellschaft f?r Telekommunikation mbH Dr. Hans Konle (Sprecher) Am Coloneum 9 Dipl.-Ing. Karl-Heinz Zankel 50829 K?ln HRB 25580, Amtsgericht K?ln From jacob at internet24.de Thu Jun 14 11:42:46 2012 From: jacob at internet24.de (Thomas Jacob) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:42:46 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD9AE80.7040903@netcologne.de> References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> <9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net> <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> <4FD9AE80.7040903@netcologne.de> Message-ID: <1339666966.20129.2.camel@jacob-ubuntu> We've got problems with 35.174.213.in-addr.arpa 36.174.213.in-addr.arpa 48.174.213.in-addr.arpa - 61.174.213.in-addr.arpa Strangely to me this looks like a really old version of the database from a couple of years ago. What's the correct address to submit this information to anyway? I currently digging thru the LIR portal for a way to open a new ticket, but haven't found anything yet. On Thu, 2012-06-14 at 11:27 +0200, Michael Adams wrote: > Hi, > > affected are: > > 86.117.212.in-addr.arpa > 103.168.213.in-addr.arpa > 124.168.213.in-addr.arpa > > Sending an update changed nothing so far. > > HTH, > Michael > > Am 14.06.2012 11:22, schrieb Job Snijders: > > Hi All, > > > > I can imagine it would be VERY useful for RIPE NCC debugging if you specify WHICH zone exactly is still affected. Just mailing "works for me" or "doesn't work for me" doesn't narrow it down. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Job > > > > > > > > ---- > > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > From zoe at hotchilli.com Thu Jun 14 11:58:15 2012 From: zoe at hotchilli.com (Zoe O'Connell) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 10:58:15 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye Message-ID: <4FD9B5B7.50107@hotchilli.com> I have seen no useful update from RIPE this morning, but I need something to pass on to internal staff and customers. Has anyone got anything? Opening a ticket is pointless as it won't get actioned quickly. From m.klaver at luna.nl Thu Jun 14 11:57:53 2012 From: m.klaver at luna.nl (Michiel Klaver) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:57:53 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <1339666966.20129.2.camel@jacob-ubuntu> Message-ID: > What's the correct address to submit this information to > anyway? I currently digging thru the LIR portal for a way > to open a new ticket, but haven't found anything yet. Guess that would be ops at ripe.net http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/contact/contact-us-by-email From ripe-ncc-members-list at internet24.de Thu Jun 14 12:00:38 2012 From: ripe-ncc-members-list at internet24.de (Thomas Jacob) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:00:38 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD9AE80.7040903@netcologne.de> References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> <9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net> <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> <4FD9AE80.7040903@netcologne.de> Message-ID: <1339668038.20129.3.camel@jacob-ubuntu> We've got problems with 35.174.213.in-addr.arpa 36.174.213.in-addr.arpa 48.174.213.in-addr.arpa - 61.174.213.in-addr.arpa Strangely to me this looks like a really old version of the database from a couple of years ago. What's the correct address to submit this information to anyway? I currently digging thru the LIR portal for a way to open a new ticket, but haven't found anything yet. On Thu, 2012-06-14 at 11:27 +0200, Michael Adams wrote: > Hi, > > affected are: > > 86.117.212.in-addr.arpa > 103.168.213.in-addr.arpa > 124.168.213.in-addr.arpa > > Sending an update changed nothing so far. > > HTH, > Michael > > Am 14.06.2012 11:22, schrieb Job Snijders: > > Hi All, > > > > I can imagine it would be VERY useful for RIPE NCC debugging if you specify WHICH zone exactly is still affected. Just mailing "works for me" or "doesn't work for me" doesn't narrow it down. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Job > > > > > > > > ---- > > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > From alper.selcuk at teknotel.com Thu Jun 14 11:58:25 2012 From: alper.selcuk at teknotel.com (=?iso-8859-9?Q?Alper_SEL=C7UK_=7C_TEKNOTEL?=) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:58:25 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not workingfromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <1339666966.20129.2.camel@jacob-ubuntu> References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net><0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local><9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net><288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net><4FD9AE80.7040903@netcologne.de> <1339666966.20129.2.camel@jacob-ubuntu> Message-ID: We've got problems with : 96.144.213.in-addr.arpa 97.144.213.in-addr.arpa Alper SEL?UK Genel M?d?r Teknotel Telekom?nikasyon A.?. Tel : +90 216 665 7700 Direk: +90 216 665 7721 GSM : +90 533 966 0140 www.teknotel.com 14 Haz 2012 tarihinde 12:42 saatinde, Thomas Jacob ?unlar? yazd?: > We've got problems with > > 35.174.213.in-addr.arpa > 36.174.213.in-addr.arpa > > 48.174.213.in-addr.arpa - 61.174.213.in-addr.arpa > > Strangely to me this looks like a really old version of the database > from a couple of years ago. > > What's the correct address to submit this information to > anyway? I currently digging thru the LIR portal for a way > to open a new ticket, but haven't found anything yet. > > On Thu, 2012-06-14 at 11:27 +0200, Michael Adams wrote: >> Hi, >> >> affected are: >> >> 86.117.212.in-addr.arpa >> 103.168.213.in-addr.arpa >> 124.168.213.in-addr.arpa >> >> Sending an update changed nothing so far. >> >> HTH, >> Michael >> >> Am 14.06.2012 11:22, schrieb Job Snijders: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I can imagine it would be VERY useful for RIPE NCC debugging if you specify WHICH zone exactly is still affected. Just mailing "works for me" or "doesn't work for me" doesn't narrow it down. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Job >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. >>> >> >> > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 3173 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jarek at swiftinter.net Thu Jun 14 12:13:42 2012 From: jarek at swiftinter.net ([Swift Internet] Jarek Grzabel) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:13:42 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <1339668038.20129.3.camel@jacob-ubuntu> References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> <9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net> <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> <4FD9AE80.7040903@netcologne.de> <1339668038.20129.3.camel@jacob-ubuntu> Message-ID: <4FD9B956.3000903@swiftinter.net> I have just received this from RIPE as an answer to my email from yesterday: It seems that our DNS provisioning system has developed a major fault, with the result that it is unable to generate DNS zonelets for the other RIRs. This required a complete bootstrap of the system, and unfortunately, this may take a few hours, during which no DNS provisioning will happen. We are aware of the problems and our engineers in the DNS department are working hard to fix the issue as soon as possible. Unfortunately at the moment we are not able to provide an estimated time of the repair yet. An announcement will be sent out to all the Working Group Mailing list with a detailed explanation of the issue and a summary of what is actually being done for fixing it. Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience and the troubles that the issue may have caused to you. Regards, Jarek [ Swift Internet ] [ www.swiftinter.net ] [ Follow us on Twitter ] [ http://twitter.com/swiftinternet ] [ Check the latest updates on NOC ] [ http://noc.swiftinter.net ] [ tel: 0121 222 0500 ] [ fax: 0121 222 0510 ] [ support at swiftinter.net ] Linux registered user #368058 On 06/14/12 11:00, Thomas Jacob wrote: > We've got problems with > > 35.174.213.in-addr.arpa > 36.174.213.in-addr.arpa > > 48.174.213.in-addr.arpa - 61.174.213.in-addr.arpa > > Strangely to me this looks like a really old version of the database > from a couple of years ago. > > What's the correct address to submit this information to > anyway? I currently digging thru the LIR portal for a way > to open a new ticket, but haven't found anything yet. > > On Thu, 2012-06-14 at 11:27 +0200, Michael Adams wrote: >> Hi, >> >> affected are: >> >> 86.117.212.in-addr.arpa >> 103.168.213.in-addr.arpa >> 124.168.213.in-addr.arpa >> >> Sending an update changed nothing so far. >> >> HTH, >> Michael >> >> Am 14.06.2012 11:22, schrieb Job Snijders: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I can imagine it would be VERY useful for RIPE NCC debugging if you specify WHICH zone exactly is still affected. Just mailing "works for me" or "doesn't work for me" doesn't narrow it down. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Job >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. >>> >> > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel.karrenberg at ripe.net Thu Jun 14 12:17:33 2012 From: daniel.karrenberg at ripe.net (Daniel Karrenberg) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:17:33 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> Message-ID: Since my name was mentioned in this thread ... Please be assured that we are working on any residual reverse DNS problems as I type this message. We do not post announcements regarding service disruptions to the members-discuss mailing list. We announce disruptions on our service announcement page as soon as any issue is discovered: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/service-announcements Additionally this particular issue was announced on specific rDNS announcement page: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/service-announcements/reverse-dns-services-issues Because we expected significant impact of this particular incident we also mention it directly on the RIPE NCC's news and annoucments section on the homepage. We are working on the rDNS issue and would like to ask anyone who is experiencing problems relating to this to send reports to dns-help at ripe.net with details about what DNS responses you are getting and what the difference is to what you are expecting. Updates will be posted to the service pages mentioned above as soon as they are available and we will send updates to the dns-wg at ripe.net and ncc-announce mailing lists as necessary. We will also add any updates to our twitter feed @RIPE_NCC. Regarding the RIPE NCC's 24/7 procedures: we have 24/7 call out coverage in place for our infrastructure in general and for our DNS services in particular. All outages are monitored around the clock and our engineers respond swiftly to any incidents. We always announce that we are working on particular incidents as detailed above, as we did last night. We do not have a 24/7 call centre that can be contacted outside of regular office hours. After this particular incident is over, we will publish a post-mortem analysis. Daniel Karrenberg Chief Scientist RIPE NCC From kurtis at netnod.se Thu Jun 14 12:08:18 2012 From: kurtis at netnod.se (Kurt Erik Lindqvist) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:08:18 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye In-Reply-To: <4FD9B5B7.50107@hotchilli.com> References: <4FD9B5B7.50107@hotchilli.com> Message-ID: <338CCD17-A253-4116-A181-7FED7FA16484@netnod.se> On 14 jun 2012, at 11:58, Zoe O'Connell wrote: > I have seen no useful update from RIPE this morning, but I need > something to pass on to internal staff and customers. Has anyone got > anything? Opening a ticket is pointless as it won't get actioned quickly. While the members-discuss list probably is not the best list to report or discuss operational outages for RIPE NCC services, RIPE NCC has posted an update on Facebook(!) Which might not be the best destination for operational updates either... The post was : We are working to fix the rDNS issues right now. For updates, see: http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regarding-the-reverse-dns-services-issues Best regards, - kurtis - --- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO kurtis at netnod.se, Direct: +46-8-562 860 11, Switch: +46-8-562 860 00 Franz?ngatan 5 | SE-112 51 Stockholm | Sweden From jogi at mur.at Thu Jun 14 12:25:47 2012 From: jogi at mur.at (Jogi =?utf-8?Q?Hofm=C3=BCller?=) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:25:47 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working from ripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FD9A52F.4000406@hosteurope.de> References: <4FD8FBD6.90003@serverplan.com> <20120614081317.GT10947@kathy> <4FD9A52F.4000406@hosteurope.de> Message-ID: <20120614102547.GV10947@kathy> Folks, On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:47:43AM +0200, Felix Sch?ren wrote: > > What are you referring to? Could it be that I missed some info here? > > > Here's the RIPE announcements regarding this: > http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/reverse-dns-services-issues > http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regarding-the-reverse-dns-services-issues Thanks! AFAICS this is the 'archive' of ncc-announce emails. Since we do monitor this list (via various accounts) it surprised me that we did not receive the two messages in question. Out of curiosity: who got these messages via email/mailing list? Anyway, thanks for the info and let?s hope things are back to normal soon! Regards, j. -- j.hofm?ller http://users.mur.at/thesix/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From mike.simkins at sungard.com Thu Jun 14 12:58:43 2012 From: mike.simkins at sungard.com (Mike Simkins) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:58:43 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not workingfromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: References: , <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net><0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local><9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net><288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net><4FD9AE80.7040903@netcologne.de> <1339666966.20129.2.camel@jacob-ubuntu> Message-ID: Seeing residual issues in 62.73.128.0/19, and no service in 176.62.128.0/21, 213.212.64.0/18 looks to be back now Mike Simkins ? Senior Network Engineer , Operations Engineering ? SunGard Availability Services ? 25 Canada Square, London E14 5LQ Telephone: +1 (215) 446 2223 / +44 (0) 20 8081 2373 ?Fax: +44 (0) 20 8081 2372 ? Mobile: +44 (0) 7710 677486 ? mike.simkins at sungard.com Customer Service Desk: +1 (800) 441 1181 ? sas.esupport at sungard.com Keeping People and Information Connected? ? http://www.sungardas.com/ ? Think before you print CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential, proprietary and privileged information, and unauthorized disclosure or use is prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail from your system. -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Alper SEL?UK | TEKNOTEL Sent: 14 June 2012 10:58 To: Thomas Jacob Cc: Michael Adams; members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not workingfromripe DNS server We've got problems with : 96.144.213.in-addr.arpa 97.144.213.in-addr.arpa Alper SEL?UK Genel M?d?r Teknotel Telekom?nikasyon A.?. Tel : +90 216 665 7700 Direk: +90 216 665 7721 GSM : +90 533 966 0140 www.teknotel.com 14 Haz 2012 tarihinde 12:42 saatinde, Thomas Jacob ?unlar? yazd?: > We've got problems with > > 35.174.213.in-addr.arpa > 36.174.213.in-addr.arpa > > 48.174.213.in-addr.arpa - 61.174.213.in-addr.arpa > > Strangely to me this looks like a really old version of the database > from a couple of years ago. > > What's the correct address to submit this information to anyway? I > currently digging thru the LIR portal for a way to open a new ticket, > but haven't found anything yet. > > On Thu, 2012-06-14 at 11:27 +0200, Michael Adams wrote: >> Hi, >> >> affected are: >> >> 86.117.212.in-addr.arpa >> 103.168.213.in-addr.arpa >> 124.168.213.in-addr.arpa >> >> Sending an update changed nothing so far. >> >> HTH, >> Michael >> >> Am 14.06.2012 11:22, schrieb Job Snijders: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I can imagine it would be VERY useful for RIPE NCC debugging if you >>> specify WHICH zone exactly is still affected. Just mailing "works for >>> me" or "doesn't work for me" doesn't narrow it down. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Job >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC >>> members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account >>> and go to the general page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >>> here, you can add or remove addresses. >>> >> >> > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the > general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From > here, you can add or remove addresses. > From members-discuss at nepustil.net Thu Jun 14 13:09:28 2012 From: members-discuss at nepustil.net (Kurt Jaeger) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:09:28 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not workingfromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <0EC19192CDDCCD449693301AA6D5A6B751A61D4D@DC-EX-02.UG.local> <9C8DECCE-9671-4050-B12F-F09B96F9BFD0@gandi.net> <288A1AB1-86F5-4495-8570-960290DD6CB6@instituut.net> <4FD9AE80.7040903@netcologne.de> <1339666966.20129.2.camel@jacob-ubuntu> Message-ID: <20120614110927.GO99758@complx.nepustil.net> Hi! > Seeing residual issues in 62.73.128.0/19, and no service in 176.62.128.0/21, > 213.212.64.0/18 looks to be back now 212.71.192.0/19 seems to back now. 4.1.1.0.0.2.ip6.arpa is also back to normal. -- MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger 8 years to go ! Dr.-Ing. Nepustil & Co. GmbH fon +49 7123 93006-0 pi at nepustil.net Rathausstr. 3 fax +49 7123 93006-99 72658 Bempflingen mob +49 171 3101372 From MB.Registryno at tdc.no Thu Jun 14 13:04:10 2012 From: MB.Registryno at tdc.no (MB Registryno) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:04:10 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> Message-ID: Well, then I will suggest that the information you posted as it currently stands was to terse or incomplete. We had e.g major issues with a range in 212.in-addr.arpa, which was not explicitly mentioned on these web-pages. All of them also referred to issues from yesterday, when there clearly was plenty of issues today. Everybody gets pissed when fuck-ups happens, since neither of us in the human-race are error free, good information always helps. Mvh stj. TDC AS Mobile: + 47 40 00 02 94 Direct: + 47 38 05 81 44 Fax : + 47 38 05 81 47 ?girsv 10 N-4632 Kristiansand, Norway mailto:svein.tjemsland at tdc.no http://www.tdc.no -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Daniel Karrenberg Sent: 14. juni 2012 12:18 To: Erik Bais Cc: J?rgen Hovland; Erdenreich, Florian; Giuseppe Tanzilli - Serverplan; Raymond Dijkxhoorn; members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server Since my name was mentioned in this thread ... Please be assured that we are working on any residual reverse DNS problems as I type this message. We do not post announcements regarding service disruptions to the members-discuss mailing list. We announce disruptions on our service announcement page as soon as any issue is discovered: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/service-announcements Additionally this particular issue was announced on specific rDNS announcement page: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/service-announcements/reverse-dns-services-issues Because we expected significant impact of this particular incident we also mention it directly on the RIPE NCC's news and annoucments section on the homepage. We are working on the rDNS issue and would like to ask anyone who is experiencing problems relating to this to send reports to dns-help at ripe.net with details about what DNS responses you are getting and what the difference is to what you are expecting. Updates will be posted to the service pages mentioned above as soon as they are available and we will send updates to the dns-wg at ripe.net and ncc-announce mailing lists as necessary. We will also add any updates to our twitter feed @RIPE_NCC. Regarding the RIPE NCC's 24/7 procedures: we have 24/7 call out coverage in place for our infrastructure in general and for our DNS services in particular. All outages are monitored around the clock and our engineers respond swiftly to any incidents. We always announce that we are working on particular incidents as detailed above, as we did last night. We do not have a 24/7 call centre that can be contacted outside of regular office hours. After this particular incident is over, we will publish a post-mortem analysis. Daniel Karrenberg Chief Scientist RIPE NCC ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From daniel.karrenberg at ripe.net Thu Jun 14 13:48:03 2012 From: daniel.karrenberg at ripe.net (Daniel Karrenberg) Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:48:03 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> Message-ID: On 14.06.2012, at 13:04, MB Registryno wrote: > Well, then I will suggest that the information you posted as it currently stands was to terse or incomplete. > > We had e.g major issues with a range in 212.in-addr.arpa, which was not explicitly mentioned on these web-pages. > > All of them also referred to issues from yesterday, when there clearly was plenty of issues today. > > Everybody gets pissed when fuck-ups happens, since neither of us in the human-race are error free, good information always helps. It certainly does. That's why we want to make sure that the information we pass out is actually good. Especially if Murphy stays around to strike multiple times, like he apparently did with us. Look at https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/service-announcements for an update with good information. I am not amused either. Vennlig hilsen Daniel From info at leadertelecom.ru Tue Jun 19 12:21:46 2012 From: info at leadertelecom.ru (LeaderTelecom Ltd.) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:21:46 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. Message-ID: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Dear Members, Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier. The customer to which we have assiged PA space?sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands?complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. ?We already found IPs in some black lists. RIPE position in this case. While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer.? Ex customer position. He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't?send any e-mails - all was made?by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any?warranty of removing routes. Questions: 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)? Additional information: ------------------------------ Example of route: route: ? ? ? ? ? xx.xx.xx.0/24 descr: ? ? ? ? ? route for xxxxxxxxxxx origin: ? ? ? ? ?asYYYY mnt-by: ? ? ? ? ?zzzzz-mnt source: ? ? ? ? ?RIPE # Filtered Where: - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer. -- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ipas.master at gmail.com Tue Jun 19 13:56:13 2012 From: ipas.master at gmail.com (Andrei Kushnireuski) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:56:13 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: hi! Try to contact provider who routes IPs for this customer. - Andrei Kushnireuski AK1065-RIPE regID: cz.alfatelecom On Jun 19, 2012, at 12:21 PM, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote: > Dear Members, > > Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier. > > The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists. > > RIPE position in this case. > While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer. > > Ex customer position. > He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes. > > Questions: > 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? > 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)? > > > Additional information: > ------------------------------ > Example of route: > > route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 > descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx > origin: asYYYY > mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt > source: RIPE # Filtered > > Where: > - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). > - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. > - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer. > > -- > Alexey Ivanov > General Director > LeaderTelecom Ltd. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaa at net-art.cz Tue Jun 19 14:18:13 2012 From: kaa at net-art.cz (Sergey Myasoedov) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:18:13 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: Remove your assignment first. -- Kind regards, sergey myasoedov On 19. 6. 2012, at 12:21, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote: > Dear Members, > > Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier. > > The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists. > > RIPE position in this case. > While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer. > > Ex customer position. > He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes. > > Questions: > 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? > 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)? > > > Additional information: > ------------------------------ > Example of route: > > route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 > descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx > origin: asYYYY > mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt > source: RIPE # Filtered > > Where: > - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). > - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. > - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer. > > -- > Alexey Ivanov > General Director > LeaderTelecom Ltd. > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From info at leadertelecom.ru Tue Jun 19 14:30:40 2012 From: info at leadertelecom.ru (LeaderTelecom Ltd.) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:30:40 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: <1340109040.254668.080153964.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Dear?Sergey, Thank you for help!?We removed inetnum, but routes can't remove. And as we see they send sucessfuly spam to Hotmail without inetnum "assigned PA". --? Alexey Ivanov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From peter.linder at fiberdirekt.se Tue Jun 19 13:43:59 2012 From: peter.linder at fiberdirekt.se (Peter Linder) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:43:59 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: <4FE065FF.60905@fiberdirekt.se> He should not have received PA addresses from you in the first place, if he has his own AS he should have used PI addresses instead. Anyways.. If i understand things correctly he is currently announcing a subset of your PA assignment through his other provider? Contact them and ask them to stop announcing it. If they do not listen, contact their providers and ask them to filter it. If they do not listen I think you should have a pretty good court case, but then again I'm not a lawyer. You could also start to announce the specific prefix yourselves, which would pretty much break that prefix... Not sure how he could have created route objects though? Not sure how to get rid of those. On 6/19/2012 12:21 PM, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote: > Dear Members, > > Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From > this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he > created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another > carrier. > > The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails > to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. > We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be > done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains > for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists. > > RIPE position in this case. > While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. > Routes should be removed by our ex customer. > > Ex customer position. > He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us > that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In > our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. > And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty > of removing routes. > > Questions: > 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? > 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)? > > > Additional information: > ------------------------------ > Example of route: > > route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 > descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx > origin: asYYYY > mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt > source: RIPE # Filtered > > Where: > - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). > - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. > - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer. > > -- > Alexey Ivanov > General Director > LeaderTelecom Ltd. > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik at bais.name Tue Jun 19 14:35:37 2012 From: erik at bais.name (Erik Bais) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:35:37 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D5737@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> Hi Alexey, Let?s assume that you provided this ?customer? a part of a PA allocation. So you have a /21 and provided this specific customer with a /24 and they are announcing that with their own AS to their providers. What you did wrong here is: The customer should not have been provided a /24 which they would be allowed to route under another AS but yours. It is you PA space, not theirs. There are good alternatives for this. PI space is one and the customer could always sign up for their own LIR member status and get their own PA space. In the RIPE DB there is an option to limit another maintainer to their own specific assignment. You can do that in the larger PA allocation (in this example for the /21 above the customers /24) using the following syntax: Inetnum : your /21 mnt-routes: Your-MNT mnt-routes: ISP-A-MNT { x.y.56.0/22, x.y.60.0/24 } mnt-routes: MNT-ISP-B { x.y.63.0/24 } That will allow the named maintainers to create a route object with their maintainer authentication that matches only that specific part of your allocation. On the part of how to remove that specific route-object. Typically only the maintainer that is named can do that. And normally they will do that as soon as the customer is no longer using the IP?s or if there is a request to remove it. If the maintainer is of the customer itself and they refuse to remove the route object. That might be tricky to get it removed, as they need to do it. Regards, Erik Bais A2B Internet From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of LeaderTelecom Ltd. Sent: dinsdag 19 juni 2012 12:22 To: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. Dear Members, Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier. The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We already found IPs in some black lists. RIPE position in this case. While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer. Ex customer position. He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes. Questions: 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)? Additional information: ------------------------------ Example of route: route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx origin: asYYYY mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt source: RIPE # Filtered Where: - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer. -- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erik at bais.name Tue Jun 19 14:40:33 2012 From: erik at bais.name (Erik Bais) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:40:33 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340109040.254668.080153964.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340109040.254668.080153964.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D5738@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> Did you also remove the in-addr.arpa zones for that specific prefix ? I read on this memberlist last week that this was quite effective in not being able to send email ? Regards, Erik Bais From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of LeaderTelecom Ltd. Sent: dinsdag 19 juni 2012 14:31 To: Sergey Myasoedov Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. Dear Sergey, Thank you for help! We removed inetnum, but routes can't remove. And as we see they send sucessfuly spam to Hotmail without inetnum "assigned PA". -- Alexey Ivanov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From info at leadertelecom.ru Tue Jun 19 14:53:29 2012 From: info at leadertelecom.ru (LeaderTelecom Ltd.) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:53:29 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D5738@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> References: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D5738@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan><1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340109040.254668.080153964.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: <1340110409.492340.435865492.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Dear?Erik, >?Did you also remove the in-addr.arpa zones for that specific prefix ?? Yes. It is very intresting that we succesfully removed in-addr.arpa objects which were without our mnt. But routes we can't remove.? Thank you hor help. Problem was solved. Our client just removed all routes. --? Alexey Ivanov -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at theinternet.org.uk Tue Jun 19 14:45:42 2012 From: mike at theinternet.org.uk (Mike Hollowell) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 13:45:42 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: <1340109942.25512.213.camel@wsk1-lm> You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce the impact, not everyone filters on /24. Mike On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 14:21 +0400, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote: > Dear Members, > > Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this > space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. > Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier. > > The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to > Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We > suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in > automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. We > already found IPs in some black lists. > > RIPE position in this case. > While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes > should be removed by our ex customer. > > Ex customer position. > He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he > doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement > written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return > money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes. > > Questions: > 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? > 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)? > > Additional information: > ------------------------------ > Example of route: > > route: xx.xx.xx.0/24 > descr: route for xxxxxxxxxxx > origin: asYYYY > mnt-by: zzzzz-mnt > source: RIPE # Filtered > > Where: > - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). > - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. > - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer. > > -- > Alexey Ivanov > General Director > LeaderTelecom Ltd. > > ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Mike Hollowell Arrowhead Systems Ltd http://www.theinternet.org.uk tel: +44 1782 747044 fax: +44 1782 410734 Arrowhead Systems Limited: A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK From slz at baycix.de Tue Jun 19 15:06:20 2012 From: slz at baycix.de (Sascha Lenz) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:06:20 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340109942.25512.213.camel@wsk1-lm> References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340109942.25512.213.camel@wsk1-lm> Message-ID: Hi, > You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce > the impact, not everyone filters on /24. please don't pollute the DFZ. Contacting the (other) upstreams and tell them the route is bogus is the only intelligent option. If the inetnum object is removed, they can see the announcement is not valid in the first place. Everything else has been said already, just don't use PA like that. I'm not sure what would be the proper way to get the route object removed in this case either. -- Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Kind Regards Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] Senior System- & Network Architect From info at leadertelecom.ru Tue Jun 19 16:09:38 2012 From: info at leadertelecom.ru (LeaderTelecom Ltd.) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:09:38 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901003034] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <4FE065FF.60905@fiberdirekt.se> References: <4FE065FF.60905@fiberdirekt.se><1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: <1340114978.41775.9131413187.196144.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Dear Peter, >?He should not have received PA addresses from you in the first place, if he has his own AS he > should have used PI addresses instead. Anyways.. Why? Customer can use as PA so PI with own AS. P.S. Customer already removed all routes. Thank you for all members and RIPE NCC. --? Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd. 19.06.2012 16:32 - Peter Linder ???????(?): He should not have received PA addresses from you in the first place, if he has his own AS he should have used PI addresses instead. Anyways.. If i understand things correctly he is currently announcing a subset of your PA assignment through his other provider? Contact them and ask them to stop announcing it. If they do not listen, contact their providers and ask them to filter it. If they do not listen I think you should have a pretty good court case, but then again I'm not a lawyer. You could also start to announce the specific prefix yourselves, which would pretty much break that prefix... Not sure how he could have created route objects though? Not sure how to get rid of those. On 6/19/2012 12:21 PM, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote: ? Dear Members, Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier. The customer to which we have assiged PA space?sending a lot of mails to Hotmail. We are receiving thousands?complains per day from Hotmail. We suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs. ?We already found IPs in some black lists. RIPE position in this case. While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes should be removed by our ex customer.? Ex customer position. He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he doesn't?send any e-mails - all was made?by his customers. In our agreement written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return money back - anyway we don't have any?warranty of removing routes. Questions: 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)? Additional information: ------------------------------ Example of route: route: ? ? ? ? ? xx.xx.xx.0/24 descr: ? ? ? ? ? route for xxxxxxxxxxx origin: ? ? ? ? ?asYYYY mnt-by: ? ? ? ? ?zzzzz-mnt source: ? ? ? ? ?RIPE # Filtered Where: - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer. -- Alexey Ivanov General Director LeaderTelecom Ltd. ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: [1]https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. [1] https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kaa at net-art.cz Tue Jun 19 16:12:38 2012 From: kaa at net-art.cz (sergey myasoedov) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:12:38 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340110409.492340.435865492.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> References: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D5738@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan><1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340109040.254668.080153964.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340110409.492340.435865492.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: <132222486.20120619161238@net-art.cz> Alexey, have you already tried to contact RIPE Database manager? Once they helped me to resolve a similar case (mntner of route object was unresponsible). -- Kind regards, sergey myasoedov You wrote Tuesday, June 19, 2012, 2:53:29 PM: >>?Did you also remove the in-addr.arpa zones for that specific prefix ?? > Yes. It is very intresting that we succesfully removed in-addr.arpa objects > which were without our mnt. But routes we can't remove.? > Thank you hor help. Problem was solved. Our client just removed all routes. From gert at space.net Tue Jun 19 16:15:02 2012 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:15:02 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901003034] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340114978.41775.9131413187.196144.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> References: <4FE065FF.60905@fiberdirekt.se> <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340114978.41775.9131413187.196144.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: <20120619141502.GC84425@Space.Net> Hi, On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 06:09:38PM +0400, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote: > >?He should not have received PA addresses from you in the first place, if he > has his own AS he > > should have used PI addresses instead. Anyways.. > > Why? Customer can use as PA so PI with own AS. Well, the point of "PA" is the "A" for "Aggregation". It can be announced (as a hole) from their own AS, but MUST NOT be taken away from the original provider. If the customer terminates the contract with the ISP who has been allocated the PA block from RIPE, the PA space MUST be returned. Just because it (sometimes) works technically doesn't mean it's intended to be used that way, or will not cause major problems later on - as you have discovered. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 From mike at theinternet.org.uk Tue Jun 19 16:28:37 2012 From: mike at theinternet.org.uk (Mike Hollowell) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:28:37 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340109942.25512.213.camel@wsk1-lm> Message-ID: <1340116117.25512.238.camel@wsk1-lm> I agree but two points, I was suggesting a method to mitigate the spam and there are 216411 /24 in the table, only 71 /25, two more temporary prefixes are insignificant. When networks like Blackberry announce their blocks in /24 (Haven't checked recently), what can you do? On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 15:06 +0200, Sascha Lenz wrote: > Hi, > > > > You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce > > the impact, not everyone filters on /24. > > please don't pollute the DFZ. > > Contacting the (other) upstreams and tell them the route is bogus is the only intelligent option. > If the inetnum object is removed, they can see the announcement is not valid in the first place. > > Everything else has been said already, just don't use PA like that. > I'm not sure what would be the proper way to get the route object removed in this case either. > > -- > Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Kind Regards > > Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] > Senior System- & Network Architect > > > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Mike Hollowell Arrowhead Systems Ltd http://www.theinternet.org.uk tel: +44 1782 747044 fax: +44 1782 410734 Arrowhead Systems Limited: A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK From info at leadertelecom.ru Tue Jun 19 16:34:33 2012 From: info at leadertelecom.ru (LeaderTelecom Ltd.) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:34:33 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901003034] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <20120619141502.GC84425@Space.Net> References: <20120619141502.GC84425@Space.Net><4FE065FF.60905@fiberdirekt.se> <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340114978.41775.9131413187.196144.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: <1340116473.68909.4701605274.196144.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Dear Gert, > Well, the point of "PA" is the "A" for "Aggregation".??It can be announced > (as a hole) from their own AS, but MUST NOT be taken away from the original > provider.?? Yes, it was good when we (means all ISP) had many IPv4 addresses. In several month PI space will be unavailable and for more efficient using IPv4 big ISP will allow use PA space for using to smaller ISP. > If the customer terminates the contract with the ISP who has > been allocated the PA block from RIPE, the PA space MUST be returned. It is not problem. Each customer has contract and on termination the contract all Assigned PA space client return back. --? Alexey Ivanov 19.06.2012 18:16 - Gert Doering ???????(?): Hi, On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 06:09:38PM +0400, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote: > >?He should not have received PA addresses from you in the first place, if he > has his own AS he > > should have used PI addresses instead. Anyways.. > > Why? Customer can use as PA so PI with own AS. Well, the point of "PA" is the "A" for "Aggregation".??It can be announced (as a hole) from their own AS, but MUST NOT be taken away from the original provider.??If the customer terminates the contract with the ISP who has been allocated the PA block from RIPE, the PA space MUST be returned. Just because it (sometimes) works technically doesn't mean it's intended to be used that way, or will not cause major problems later on - as you have discovered. Gert Doering ????????-- NetMaster -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG????????????????????????Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14??????????Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen?????????????????? HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (89) 32356-444????????????USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: [1]https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. [1] https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ij at beevpn.com Tue Jun 19 16:32:05 2012 From: ij at beevpn.com (Ian Johannesen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:32:05 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340116117.25512.238.camel@wsk1-lm> References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340109942.25512.213.camel@wsk1-lm> <1340116117.25512.238.camel@wsk1-lm> Message-ID: Mike, If it's not supposed to be done like that - it isn't justified using that argument. That would be like saying "It's not allowed to steal, but since so many do it anyway - it'll just be a drop in the ocean if I do it too" :) -- Med venlig hilsen / Best regards, Ian Johannesen BeeVPN ApS mai: ij at beevpn.com On Jun 19, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Mike Hollowell wrote: > I agree but two points, I was suggesting a method to mitigate the spam > and there are 216411 /24 in the table, only 71 /25, two more temporary > prefixes are insignificant. > > When networks like Blackberry announce their blocks in /24 (Haven't > checked recently), what can you do? > > > On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 15:06 +0200, Sascha Lenz wrote: >> Hi, >> >> >>> You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce >>> the impact, not everyone filters on /24. >> >> please don't pollute the DFZ. >> >> Contacting the (other) upstreams and tell them the route is bogus is the only intelligent option. >> If the inetnum object is removed, they can see the announcement is not valid in the first place. >> >> Everything else has been said already, just don't use PA like that. >> I'm not sure what would be the proper way to get the route object removed in this case either. >> >> -- >> Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Kind Regards >> >> Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] >> Senior System- & Network Architect >> >> >> >> >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > -- > > > Mike Hollowell > > Arrowhead Systems Ltd > http://www.theinternet.org.uk > tel: +44 1782 747044 > fax: +44 1782 410734 > > Arrowhead Systems Limited: > A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 > Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From slz at baycix.de Tue Jun 19 16:48:00 2012 From: slz at baycix.de (Sascha Lenz) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:48:00 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340116117.25512.238.camel@wsk1-lm> References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340109942.25512.213.camel@wsk1-lm> <1340116117.25512.238.camel@wsk1-lm> Message-ID: Hi, [the original problem seems to be solved and this discussion is nothing new, so that's the last answer from me here] > I agree but two points, I was suggesting a method to mitigate the spam > and there are 216411 /24 in the table, only 71 /25, two more temporary > prefixes are insignificant. unfortunately that's a very narrow minded view on the world. Also, it doesn't solve anything. So just don't do it, not even as a temporary measure. Just focus your efforts on the offender and their upstreams in such cases. Note: There is no hijacking of any production stuff here, it's "just spam" > > When networks like Blackberry announce their blocks in /24 (Haven't > checked recently), what can you do? The same, educate the offender and their upstreams. But please don't tell others to turn to the dark side just because "everyone else is doing it", that's just sad. Anyways, problem is resolved, EOL. -- Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Kind Regards Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] Senior System- & Network Architect From info at leadertelecom.ru Tue Jun 19 16:52:57 2012 From: info at leadertelecom.ru (LeaderTelecom Ltd.) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:52:57 +0400 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340109942.25512.213.camel@wsk1-lm> References: <1340109942.25512.213.camel@wsk1-lm><1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Message-ID: <1340117577.532747.606253775.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> Dear Mike, > You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce > the impact, not everyone filters on /24. We tryed to do that. But when we tryed to create route object /25 we saw authentification error,? while parent route (/24) has another mnt.? --? Alexey Ivanov 19.06.2012 17:17 - Mike Hollowell ???????(?): You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce the impact, not everyone filters on /24. Mike On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 14:21 +0400, LeaderTelecom Ltd. wrote: > Dear Members, > > Please help what better to do in this case. We have allocated PA. From this > space we Assigned PA to customer. Customer has own AS and he created routes. > Route objects doesn't have our mnt-by. He has another carrier. > > The customer to which we have assiged PA space sending a lot of mails to > Hotmail. We are receiving thousands complains per day from Hotmail. We > suggested to block this IPs for Hotmail. They tell that it can be done only in > automatic mode when hotmail will receive many complains for this IPs.??We > already found IPs in some black lists. > > RIPE position in this case. > While routes doesn't have RIPE mnt record - they can't do anything. Routes > should be removed by our ex customer. > > Ex customer position. > He won't remove routes until we will return money back. And tell us that he > doesn't send any e-mails - all was made by his customers. In our agreement > written that we don't return money back in this case. And if we will return > money back - anyway we don't have any warranty of removing routes. > > Questions: > 1. How can we restrict using this routes right now? > 2. How can we remove wrong routes (see an example bellow)? > > Additional information: > ------------------------------ > Example of route: > >??route:?????????? xx.xx.xx.0/24 >?? descr:?????????? route for xxxxxxxxxxx >?? origin:??????????asYYYY >?? mnt-by:??????????zzzzz-mnt >?? source:??????????RIPE # Filtered >?? > Where: > - xx.xx.xx.0/24 - IPs from our allocation (Assigned PA). > - ASyyyy - AS our ex customer. > - zzzzz-mnt - MNT of our ex customer. > >??-- > Alexey Ivanov > General Director > LeaderTelecom Ltd. >?? > ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: [1]https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -- Mike Hollowell Arrowhead Systems Ltd [2]http://www.theinternet.org.uk tel: +44 1782 747044 fax: +44 1782 410734 Arrowhead Systems Limited: A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: [3]https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. [1] https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view [2] http://www.theinternet.org.uk [3] https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at theinternet.org.uk Tue Jun 19 16:55:17 2012 From: mike at theinternet.org.uk (Mike Hollowell) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:55:17 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340109942.25512.213.camel@wsk1-lm> <1340116117.25512.238.camel@wsk1-lm> Message-ID: <1340117717.25512.249.camel@wsk1-lm> Hi Ian; Yes, we live in a grey world. What's worse, getting a pile of spam/using computer resources to clean it up or using resources to route a few more prefixes/mitigate it? I suppose it depends on your viewpoint. It's only going to get worse, but it's always been the same; put more memory in your router or filter routes. Oh, and sorry for the big sig earlier ;) Mike On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 16:32 +0200, Ian Johannesen wrote: > Mike, > > If it's not supposed to be done like that - it isn't justified using that argument. That would be like saying "It's not allowed to steal, but since so many do it anyway - it'll just be a drop in the ocean if I do it too" :) > > -- > Med venlig hilsen / Best regards, > > Ian Johannesen > BeeVPN ApS > > mai: ij at beevpn.com > > On Jun 19, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Mike Hollowell wrote: > > > I agree but two points, I was suggesting a method to mitigate the spam > > and there are 216411 /24 in the table, only 71 /25, two more temporary > > prefixes are insignificant. > > > > When networks like Blackberry announce their blocks in /24 (Haven't > > checked recently), what can you do? > > > > > > On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 15:06 +0200, Sascha Lenz wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> > >>> You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce > >>> the impact, not everyone filters on /24. > >> > >> please don't pollute the DFZ. > >> > >> Contacting the (other) upstreams and tell them the route is bogus is the only intelligent option. > >> If the inetnum object is removed, they can see the announcement is not valid in the first place. > >> > >> Everything else has been said already, just don't use PA like that. > >> I'm not sure what would be the proper way to get the route object removed in this case either. > >> > >> -- > >> Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Kind Regards > >> > >> Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] > >> Senior System- & Network Architect > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ---- > >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > >> > >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > > -- > > > > > > Mike Hollowell > > > > Arrowhead Systems Ltd > > http://www.theinternet.org.uk > > tel: +44 1782 747044 > > fax: +44 1782 410734 > > > > Arrowhead Systems Limited: > > A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 > > Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK > > > > > > ---- > > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From ij at beevpn.com Tue Jun 19 17:17:22 2012 From: ij at beevpn.com (Ian Johannesen) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:17:22 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] [Ticket#2012061901001911] Need help. Can't remove routes for ex Assigned PA. In-Reply-To: <1340117717.25512.249.camel@wsk1-lm> References: <1340101306.607777.984329793.196032.2@otrs.hostingconsult.ru> <1340109942.25512.213.camel@wsk1-lm> <1340116117.25512.238.camel@wsk1-lm> <1340117717.25512.249.camel@wsk1-lm> Message-ID: Mike, First of all, if we don't all follow the policies, and educate people about them as Sascha also stated, what reason does it serve to have the policies in the first place? So shouldn't the time should really be spent on trying to argue for a policy change in favor of allowing this - instead of trying to fish out arguments to justify not following them in the first place? I mean if there's a broad consensus behind this shouldn't it be done this way? Because I'm having a very hard time otherwise as not reading it along the lines of openly saying "I don't agree with you guys - so I'll just do it the way I so please". In either case this debate seems much more relevant to be had out in the open using the right working group mailing list. -- Med venlig hilsen / Best regards, Ian Johannesen BeeVPN ApS On Jun 19, 2012, at 4:55 PM, Mike Hollowell wrote: > Hi Ian; > > Yes, we live in a grey world. What's worse, getting a pile of spam/using > computer resources to clean it up or using resources to route a few more > prefixes/mitigate it? I suppose it depends on your viewpoint. > > It's only going to get worse, but it's always been the same; put more > memory in your router or filter routes. > > Oh, and sorry for the big sig earlier ;) > > Mike > > On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 16:32 +0200, Ian Johannesen wrote: >> Mike, >> >> If it's not supposed to be done like that - it isn't justified using that argument. That would be like saying "It's not allowed to steal, but since so many do it anyway - it'll just be a drop in the ocean if I do it too" :) >> >> -- >> Med venlig hilsen / Best regards, >> >> Ian Johannesen >> BeeVPN ApS >> >> mai: ij at beevpn.com >> >> On Jun 19, 2012, at 4:28 PM, Mike Hollowell wrote: >> >>> I agree but two points, I was suggesting a method to mitigate the spam >>> and there are 216411 /24 in the table, only 71 /25, two more temporary >>> prefixes are insignificant. >>> >>> When networks like Blackberry announce their blocks in /24 (Haven't >>> checked recently), what can you do? >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 2012-06-19 at 15:06 +0200, Sascha Lenz wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> >>>>> You could announce the /24 and 2 * /25 yourself and blackhole to reduce >>>>> the impact, not everyone filters on /24. >>>> >>>> please don't pollute the DFZ. >>>> >>>> Contacting the (other) upstreams and tell them the route is bogus is the only intelligent option. >>>> If the inetnum object is removed, they can see the announcement is not valid in the first place. >>>> >>>> Everything else has been said already, just don't use PA like that. >>>> I'm not sure what would be the proper way to get the route object removed in this case either. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Kind Regards >>>> >>>> Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] >>>> Senior System- & Network Architect >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >>>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >>>> >>>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> Mike Hollowell >>> >>> Arrowhead Systems Ltd >>> http://www.theinternet.org.uk >>> tel: +44 1782 747044 >>> fax: +44 1782 410734 >>> >>> Arrowhead Systems Limited: >>> A company registered in England and Wales, company number 02694760 >>> Reg'd Office: 5 The Villas, Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire. ST4 5AQ. UK >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. >> >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > From jarek at swiftinter.net Tue Jun 19 17:18:22 2012 From: jarek at swiftinter.net ([Swift Internet] Jarek Grzabel) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:18:22 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> Message-ID: <4FE0983E.9070101@swiftinter.net> I have just read this: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/dfk/timeline-of-reverse-dns-events And I'm shocked. The whole internet relies on the organization which clearly says: 14:00 Discovery that backups are not available How this is possible ? Regards, Jarek [ Swift Internet ] [ www.swiftinter.net ] [ Follow us on Twitter ] [ http://twitter.com/swiftinternet ] [ Check the latest updates on NOC ] [ http://noc.swiftinter.net ] [ tel: 0121 222 0500 ] [ fax: 0121 222 0510 ] [ support at swiftinter.net ] Linux registered user #368058 On 06/14/12 12:48, Daniel Karrenberg wrote: > On 14.06.2012, at 13:04, MB Registryno wrote: > >> Well, then I will suggest that the information you posted as it currently stands was to terse or incomplete. >> >> We had e.g major issues with a range in 212.in-addr.arpa, which was not explicitly mentioned on these web-pages. >> >> All of them also referred to issues from yesterday, when there clearly was plenty of issues today. >> >> Everybody gets pissed when fuck-ups happens, since neither of us in the human-race are error free, good information always helps. > > It certainly does. That's why we want to make sure that the information we pass out is actually good. Especially if Murphy stays around to strike multiple times, like he apparently did with us. Look at https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/service-announcements for an update with good information. > > I am not amused either. > > Vennlig hilsen > > Daniel > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at filoo.de Tue Jun 19 17:21:02 2012 From: chris at filoo.de (Dr. Christopher Kunz) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:21:02 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FE0983E.9070101@swiftinter.net> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> <4FE0983E.9070101@swiftinter.net> Message-ID: <4FE098DE.6070602@filoo.de> Am 19.06.12 17:18, schrieb [Swift Internet] Jarek Grzabel: > I have just read this: > https://labs.ripe.net/Members/dfk/timeline-of-reverse-dns-events > > And I'm shocked. The whole internet relies on the organization which > clearly says: > 14:00 > Discovery that backups are not available > > How this is possible ? That was my personal "LOL WTF" moment of the day, too. I can vividly imagine the huge wave of facepalms that transcended the RIPE offices after this discovery. Gru?, --ck -- filoo GmbH Dr. Christopher Kunz E-Mail: chris at filoo.de Tel.: (+49) 0 52 41 8 67 30 -18 Fax: (+49) 0 52 41 / 8 67 30 -20 Please sign & encrypt mail wherever possible, my key: C882 8ED1 7DD1 9011 C088 EA50 5CFA 2EEB 397A CAC1 Moltkestra?e 25a 33330 G?tersloh HRB4355, AG G?tersloh Gesch?ftsf?hrer: S.Grewing, J.Rehp?hler, Dr. C.Kunz Filoo im Web: http://www.filoo.de/ Folgen Sie uns auf Twitter: http://twitter.com/filoogmbh Werden Sie unser Fan auf Facebook: http://facebook.com/filoogmbh From s.lockhart at cablecomnetworking.co.uk Tue Jun 19 17:26:32 2012 From: s.lockhart at cablecomnetworking.co.uk (Simon Lockhart) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:26:32 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FE0983E.9070101@swiftinter.net> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net> <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> <4FE0983E.9070101@swiftinter.net> Message-ID: <20120619152632.GF3807@simonl.cablecomnetworking.co.uk> On Tue Jun 19, 2012 at 04:18:22PM +0100, [Swift Internet] Jarek Grzabel wrote: > I have just read this: > https://labs.ripe.net/Members/dfk/timeline-of-reverse-dns-events > > And I'm shocked. The whole internet relies on the organization which clearly > says: > 14:00 Discovery that backups are not available > > How this is possible ? Often, when data is reproducable, it's not a requirement to backup the data if the original inputs are backed up. All a backup would do is speed up time to recovery, as it's always possible to regenerate the data from input. Yes, in this case speed of recovery was important, and those backups would have helped, but I don't think it's fair to come to the conclusion that RIPE doesn't hold backups. Simon From slz at baycix.de Tue Jun 19 17:52:11 2012 From: slz at baycix.de (Sascha Lenz) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:52:11 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FE098DE.6070602@filoo.de> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> <4FE0983E.9070101@swiftinter.net> <4FE098DE.6070602@filoo.de> Message-ID: <92FCD271-1F51-4281-8BCA-C02B1380D766@baycix.de> Hi, > Am 19.06.12 17:18, schrieb [Swift Internet] Jarek Grzabel: >> I have just read this: >> https://labs.ripe.net/Members/dfk/timeline-of-reverse-dns-events >> >> And I'm shocked. The whole internet relies on the organization which >> clearly says: >> 14:00 >> Discovery that backups are not available >> >> How this is possible ? > > That was my personal "LOL WTF" moment of the day, too. I can vividly > imagine the huge wave of facepalms that transcended the RIPE offices > after this discovery. actually, i like this. Backups are overrated and even if they exist, when does restoring the data ever work when you really need it to work? :-) Considering the circumstances, i think the handling of the situation was quite good, and from a technical point of view, i couldn't have done anything better i guess (from what we know up to now). Of course, for those not on the relevant communication channels like IRC :-), the communication of what's happening should have been better for a big/long outage like this one, but that's actually my only problem with the whole incident (apart from the backup-thing) so far. Those things happen. I just hope the NCC learns some lessons, we get some more information about the root cause and what's being done to prevent this in the future, and i also hope there won't be too much ranting about this here or during the next AGM from C-Level droids. -- Mit freundlichen Gr??en / Kind Regards Sascha Lenz [SLZ-RIPE] Senior System- & Network Architect From erik at bais.name Tue Jun 19 18:27:17 2012 From: erik at bais.name (Erik Bais) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:27:17 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <92FCD271-1F51-4281-8BCA-C02B1380D766@baycix.de> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> <4FE0983E.9070101@swiftinter.net> <4FE098DE.6070602@filoo.de> <92FCD271-1F51-4281-8BCA-C02B1380D766@baycix.de> Message-ID: <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D573A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> Hi Sascha, > Those things happen. I just hope the NCC learns some lessons, we get some more information about the root cause and what's being done to prevent this in the future, and i also hope there won't be too much ranting about > this here or during the next AGM from C-Level droids. As it is still a couple months before the next AGM meeting, this gives the NCC plenty of time to review everything and the procedures, on what went not so good and where improvement in the process can be achieved to avoid a next time. I'm looking forward to the next AGM already... >From a AGM budget point of view, how much does a good backup (storage) solution cost anyway ... I'm pretty sure it would make it into the next budget calculation during the AGM without many people opposing it. :) Regards, Erik Bais From mark.jones at talktalkplc.com Mon Jun 25 12:15:52 2012 From: mark.jones at talktalkplc.com (Mark Jones (MK)) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 10:15:52 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye In-Reply-To: <338CCD17-A253-4116-A181-7FED7FA16484@netnod.se> References: <4FD9B5B7.50107@hotchilli.com> <338CCD17-A253-4116-A181-7FED7FA16484@netnod.se> Message-ID: Operational updates on FaceBook??? Give over :-) -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Kurt Erik Lindqvist Sent: 14 June 2012 11:51 To: Zoe O'Connell Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye On 14 jun 2012, at 11:58, Zoe O'Connell wrote: > I have seen no useful update from RIPE this morning, but I need > something to pass on to internal staff and customers. Has anyone got > anything? Opening a ticket is pointless as it won't get actioned quickly. While the members-discuss list probably is not the best list to report or discuss operational outages for RIPE NCC services, RIPE NCC has posted an update on Facebook(!) Which might not be the best destination for operational updates either... The post was : We are working to fix the rDNS issues right now. For updates, see: http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regarding-the-reverse-dns-services-issues Best regards, - kurtis - --- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO kurtis at netnod.se, Direct: +46-8-562 860 11, Switch: +46-8-562 860 00 Franz?ngatan 5 | SE-112 51 Stockholm | Sweden ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ############################################################################## This communication together with any attachments transmitted with it ("this E-Mail") is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information which is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this E-Mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this E-Mail is strictly prohibited. Addressees should check this E-mail for viruses. The Company makes no representations as regards the absence of viruses in this E-Mail. If you have received this E-Mail in error please notify our IT Service Desk immediately by e-mail at abuse.ttb at talktalkplc.com Please then immediately delete, erase or otherwise destroy this E-Mail and any copies of it. Any opinions expressed in this E-Mail are those of the author and do not necessarily constitute the views of the Company. Nothing in this E-Mail shall bind the Company in any contract or obligation. For the purposes of this E-Mail "the Company" means TalkTalk Telecom Group PLC and/or any of its subsidiaries. Please feel free to visit our website: www.talktalkgroup.com TalkTalk Telecom Group Plc (Registered in England & Wales No. 7105891) 11 Evesham Street, London W11 4AR ############################################################################## From mike.simkins at sungard.com Mon Jun 25 12:28:59 2012 From: mike.simkins at sungard.com (Mike Simkins) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 11:28:59 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye In-Reply-To: References: <4FD9B5B7.50107@hotchilli.com> <338CCD17-A253-4116-A181-7FED7FA16484@netnod.se> Message-ID: <464177d24a9422a8622d1778c199c4dc@mail.gmail.com> Well, to be fair, e-mail may have bounced becaue of no rDNS :) -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Mark Jones (MK) Sent: 25 June 2012 11:16 To: Kurt Erik Lindqvist; Zoe O'Connell Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye Operational updates on FaceBook??? Give over :-) -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Kurt Erik Lindqvist Sent: 14 June 2012 11:51 To: Zoe O'Connell Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye On 14 jun 2012, at 11:58, Zoe O'Connell wrote: > I have seen no useful update from RIPE this morning, but I need > something to pass on to internal staff and customers. Has anyone got > anything? Opening a ticket is pointless as it won't get actioned quickly. While the members-discuss list probably is not the best list to report or discuss operational outages for RIPE NCC services, RIPE NCC has posted an update on Facebook(!) Which might not be the best destination for operational updates either... The post was : We are working to fix the rDNS issues right now. For updates, see: http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regard ing-the-reverse-dns-services-issues Best regards, - kurtis - --- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO kurtis at netnod.se, Direct: +46-8-562 860 11, Switch: +46-8-562 860 00 Franz?ngatan 5 | SE-112 51 Stockholm | Sweden ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ########################################################################## #### This communication together with any attachments transmitted with it ("this E-Mail") is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information which is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this E-Mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this E-Mail is strictly prohibited. Addressees should check this E-mail for viruses. The Company makes no representations as regards the absence of viruses in this E-Mail. If you have received this E-Mail in error please notify our IT Service Desk immediately by e-mail at abuse.ttb at talktalkplc.com Please then immediately delete, erase or otherwise destroy this E-Mail and any copies of it. Any opinions expressed in this E-Mail are those of the author and do not necessarily constitute the views of the Company. Nothing in this E-Mail shall bind the Company in any contract or obligation. For the purposes of this E-Mail "the Company" means TalkTalk Telecom Group PLC and/or any of its subsidiaries. Please feel free to visit our website: www.talktalkgroup.com TalkTalk Telecom Group Plc (Registered in England & Wales No. 7105891) 11 Evesham Street, London W11 4AR ########################################################################## #### ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From mark.jones at talktalkplc.com Mon Jun 25 12:34:06 2012 From: mark.jones at talktalkplc.com (Mark Jones (MK)) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 10:34:06 +0000 Subject: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye In-Reply-To: <464177d24a9422a8622d1778c199c4dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <4FD9B5B7.50107@hotchilli.com> <338CCD17-A253-4116-A181-7FED7FA16484@netnod.se> <464177d24a9422a8622d1778c199c4dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Good point. So I can justify having facebook and twitter open on my console for purely operational reasons :-) Woo hoo! -----Original Message----- From: Mike Simkins [mailto:mike.simkins at sungard.com] Sent: 25 June 2012 11:29 To: Mark Jones (MK); Kurt Erik Lindqvist; Zoe O'Connell Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: RE: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye Well, to be fair, e-mail may have bounced becaue of no rDNS :) -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Mark Jones (MK) Sent: 25 June 2012 11:16 To: Kurt Erik Lindqvist; Zoe O'Connell Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye Operational updates on FaceBook??? Give over :-) -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Kurt Erik Lindqvist Sent: 14 June 2012 11:51 To: Zoe O'Connell Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye On 14 jun 2012, at 11:58, Zoe O'Connell wrote: > I have seen no useful update from RIPE this morning, but I need > something to pass on to internal staff and customers. Has anyone got > anything? Opening a ticket is pointless as it won't get actioned quickly. While the members-discuss list probably is not the best list to report or discuss operational outages for RIPE NCC services, RIPE NCC has posted an update on Facebook(!) Which might not be the best destination for operational updates either... The post was : We are working to fix the rDNS issues right now. For updates, see: http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regard ing-the-reverse-dns-services-issues Best regards, - kurtis - --- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO kurtis at netnod.se, Direct: +46-8-562 860 11, Switch: +46-8-562 860 00 Franz?ngatan 5 | SE-112 51 Stockholm | Sweden ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ########################################################################## #### This communication together with any attachments transmitted with it ("this E-Mail") is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information which is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this E-Mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this E-Mail is strictly prohibited. Addressees should check this E-mail for viruses. The Company makes no representations as regards the absence of viruses in this E-Mail. If you have received this E-Mail in error please notify our IT Service Desk immediately by e-mail at abuse.ttb at talktalkplc.com Please then immediately delete, erase or otherwise destroy this E-Mail and any copies of it. Any opinions expressed in this E-Mail are those of the author and do not necessarily constitute the views of the Company. Nothing in this E-Mail shall bind the Company in any contract or obligation. For the purposes of this E-Mail "the Company" means TalkTalk Telecom Group PLC and/or any of its subsidiaries. Please feel free to visit our website: www.talktalkgroup.com TalkTalk Telecom Group Plc (Registered in England & Wales No. 7105891) 11 Evesham Street, London W11 4AR ########################################################################## #### ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ############################################################################## This communication together with any attachments transmitted with it ("this E-Mail") is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information which is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this E-Mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this E-Mail is strictly prohibited. Addressees should check this E-mail for viruses. The Company makes no representations as regards the absence of viruses in this E-Mail. If you have received this E-Mail in error please notify our IT Service Desk immediately by e-mail at abuse.ttb at talktalkplc.com Please then immediately delete, erase or otherwise destroy this E-Mail and any copies of it. Any opinions expressed in this E-Mail are those of the author and do not necessarily constitute the views of the Company. Nothing in this E-Mail shall bind the Company in any contract or obligation. For the purposes of this E-Mail "the Company" means TalkTalk Telecom Group PLC and/or any of its subsidiaries. Please feel free to visit our website: www.talktalkgroup.com TalkTalk Telecom Group Plc (Registered in England & Wales No. 7105891) 11 Evesham Street, London W11 4AR ############################################################################## From Ole.Bryde at sonymobile.com Mon Jun 25 13:18:43 2012 From: Ole.Bryde at sonymobile.com (Bryde, Ole) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:18:43 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye In-Reply-To: References: <4FD9B5B7.50107@hotchilli.com> <338CCD17-A253-4116-A181-7FED7FA16484@netnod.se> <464177d24a9422a8622d1778c199c4dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Comforting :) -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Mark Jones (MK) Sent: den 25 juni 2012 12:34 To: Mike Simkins; Kurt Erik Lindqvist; Zoe O'Connell Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye Good point. So I can justify having facebook and twitter open on my console for purely operational reasons :-) Woo hoo! -----Original Message----- From: Mike Simkins [mailto:mike.simkins at sungard.com] Sent: 25 June 2012 11:29 To: Mark Jones (MK); Kurt Erik Lindqvist; Zoe O'Connell Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: RE: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye Well, to be fair, e-mail may have bounced becaue of no rDNS :) -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Mark Jones (MK) Sent: 25 June 2012 11:16 To: Kurt Erik Lindqvist; Zoe O'Connell Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye Operational updates on FaceBook??? Give over :-) -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Kurt Erik Lindqvist Sent: 14 June 2012 11:51 To: Zoe O'Connell Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Updates from RIPE on the DNS ussye On 14 jun 2012, at 11:58, Zoe O'Connell wrote: > I have seen no useful update from RIPE this morning, but I need > something to pass on to internal staff and customers. Has anyone got > anything? Opening a ticket is pointless as it won't get actioned quickly. While the members-discuss list probably is not the best list to report or discuss operational outages for RIPE NCC services, RIPE NCC has posted an update on Facebook(!) Which might not be the best destination for operational updates either... The post was : We are working to fix the rDNS issues right now. For updates, see: http://www.ripe.net/internet-coordination/news/announcements/update-regard ing-the-reverse-dns-services-issues Best regards, - kurtis - --- Kurt Erik Lindqvist, CEO kurtis at netnod.se, Direct: +46-8-562 860 11, Switch: +46-8-562 860 00 Franz?ngatan 5 | SE-112 51 Stockholm | Sweden ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ########################################################################## #### This communication together with any attachments transmitted with it ("this E-Mail") is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information which is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this E-Mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this E-Mail is strictly prohibited. Addressees should check this E-mail for viruses. The Company makes no representations as regards the absence of viruses in this E-Mail. If you have received this E-Mail in error please notify our IT Service Desk immediately by e-mail at abuse.ttb at talktalkplc.com Please then immediately delete, erase or otherwise destroy this E-Mail and any copies of it. Any opinions expressed in this E-Mail are those of the author and do not necessarily constitute the views of the Company. Nothing in this E-Mail shall bind the Company in any contract or obligation. For the purposes of this E-Mail "the Company" means TalkTalk Telecom Group PLC and/or any of its subsidiaries. Please feel free to visit our website: www.talktalkgroup.com TalkTalk Telecom Group Plc (Registered in England & Wales No. 7105891) 11 Evesham Street, London W11 4AR ########################################################################## #### ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. ############################################################################## This communication together with any attachments transmitted with it ("this E-Mail") is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information which is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this E-Mail is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this E-Mail is strictly prohibited. Addressees should check this E-mail for viruses. The Company makes no representations as regards the absence of viruses in this E-Mail. If you have received this E-Mail in error please notify our IT Service Desk immediately by e-mail at abuse.ttb at talktalkplc.com Please then immediately delete, erase or otherwise destroy this E-Mail and any copies of it. Any opinions expressed in this E-Mail are those of the author and do not necessarily constitute the views of the Company. Nothing in this E-Mail shall bind the Company in any contract or obligation. For the purposes of this E-Mail "the Company" means TalkTalk Telecom Group PLC and/or any of its subsidiaries. Please feel free to visit our website: www.talktalkgroup.com TalkTalk Telecom Group Plc (Registered in England & Wales No. 7105891) 11 Evesham Street, London W11 4AR ############################################################################## ---- If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. From nigel at titley.com Mon Jun 25 17:49:50 2012 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 16:49:50 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FE098DE.6070602@filoo.de> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> <4FE0983E.9070101@swiftinter.net> <4FE098DE.6070602@filoo.de> Message-ID: <4FE8889E.7090904@titley.com> On 19/06/2012 16:21, Dr. Christopher Kunz wrote: > Am 19.06.12 17:18, schrieb [Swift Internet] Jarek Grzabel: >> I have just read this: >> https://labs.ripe.net/Members/dfk/timeline-of-reverse-dns-events >> >> And I'm shocked. The whole internet relies on the organization which >> clearly says: >> 14:00 >> Discovery that backups are not available >> >> How this is possible ? > That was my personal "LOL WTF" moment of the day, too. I can vividly > imagine the huge wave of facepalms that transcended the RIPE offices > after this discovery. > It was far worse than that.... I raised my eyebrows at Daniel... he appreciated the seriousness Nigel From neufeind at web.de Tue Jun 26 00:14:17 2012 From: neufeind at web.de (Stefan Neufeind) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 00:14:17 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FE8889E.7090904@titley.com> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> <4FE0983E.9070101@swiftinter.net> <4FE098DE.6070602@filoo.de> <4FE8889E.7090904@titley.com> Message-ID: <4FE8E2B9.9020305@web.de> On 06/25/2012 05:49 PM, Nigel Titley wrote: > On 19/06/2012 16:21, Dr. Christopher Kunz wrote: >> Am 19.06.12 17:18, schrieb [Swift Internet] Jarek Grzabel: >>> I have just read this: >>> https://labs.ripe.net/Members/dfk/timeline-of-reverse-dns-events >>> >>> And I'm shocked. The whole internet relies on the organization which >>> clearly says: >>> 14:00 >>> Discovery that backups are not available >>> >>> How this is possible ? >> That was my personal "LOL WTF" moment of the day, too. I can vividly >> imagine the huge wave of facepalms that transcended the RIPE offices >> after this discovery. >> > It was far worse than that.... I raised my eyebrows at Daniel... he > appreciated the seriousness Okay, but I really appreciate their openness. Problems (to put it polite) happen. So why find a wording around the facts ... face them and improve it. Regards, Stefan From nigel at titley.com Tue Jun 26 10:12:50 2012 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 09:12:50 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Reverse DNS issue - zone still not working fromripe DNS server In-Reply-To: <4FE8E2B9.9020305@web.de> References: <4fd91cf0d29d8f5b7002cbe7670.jorgen@ssc.net>, <300D7A986F21FC488C88D880357129AB042F1CF9@EXCHANGE1.exc.erdenreich.net> <4FD99F4B.2090809@serverplan.com> <3D7F7C92CA8EEF458B7AC7BACD7D619102F1946D570A@EXVS002.netsourcing.lan> <4FE0983E.9070101@swiftinter.net> <4FE098DE.6070602@filoo.de> <4FE8889E.7090904@titley.com> <4FE8E2B9.9020305@web.de> Message-ID: <4FE96F02.1080805@titley.com> On 25/06/2012 23:14, Stefan Neufeind wrote: > On 06/25/2012 05:49 PM, Nigel Titley wrote: >> On 19/06/2012 16:21, Dr. Christopher Kunz wrote: >>> Am 19.06.12 17:18, schrieb [Swift Internet] Jarek Grzabel: >>>> I have just read this: >>>> https://labs.ripe.net/Members/dfk/timeline-of-reverse-dns-events >>>> >>>> And I'm shocked. The whole internet relies on the organization which >>>> clearly says: >>>> 14:00 >>>> Discovery that backups are not available >>>> >>>> How this is possible ? >>> That was my personal "LOL WTF" moment of the day, too. I can vividly >>> imagine the huge wave of facepalms that transcended the RIPE offices >>> after this discovery. >>> >> It was far worse than that.... I raised my eyebrows at Daniel... he >> appreciated the seriousness > Okay, but I really appreciate their openness. > Problems (to put it polite) happen. So why find a wording around the > facts ... face them and improve it. > Absolutely agree. There is never a value in not being open in our community. I fully support Axel and his team in their decision to publish the full facts of the matter. Of course I also expect to see a full report, in the fullness of time, on what exactly went wrong with their procedures and the steps taken to ensure that this doesn't happen again. Nigel