[members-discuss] idea Christian 'wiwi' Wittenhorst

>
> 2x/19 are equivalent to 1x/18 -> 2132 Euro
>
> I have 1x/17, 2x/18, 1x/19 and its little bit more than /16, so I have
> to pay for /15 -> 3562 Euro
>
> PI-Space should not count in this Charging Scheme, it should costs 50 
> Euro/year like now. AS 50Euro/year too.

once again, this completely leaves ipv6 out of consideration, where is 
the fixed part anyway? or are lirs that don't want any resources but just 
votes in ripe "free" all of a sudden? in which case, i'll take 20000 lirs 
please, so i can outvote you and fix the billing scheme again ;P

ripe is NOT just a database for IPV4... its membership fees, are not and 
should not be directly translated into an amount of ipv4 addresses.

your proposal ignores: fixed membership fees for the organisational part 
which applies in case of "empty lirs that just want the votes", as well as 
for ipv6, which i find no mention of anywhere in your proposal.

(guess what, when ipv4 runs out, there will be a shitload of new ipv6 only 
lirs, as there simply is no ipv4 left to give to them ;)

in a few years, there will be plenty ipv6 only lirs, what would they pay? 
50 euros for the asn and 50 euros for the /30-/32 ?

having them pay only 100 euros and everyone else with (by then obsolete) 
ipv4 space would be a bit weird wouldn't it... furthermore, they'd start 
to riot when we then "correct" the billing scheme again and they all of a 
sudden also have to pay their equal share. (going up from 100 euros to 
around 2000 euros in one go, without providing them with any additional 
services - let the riots commence ;)

while in fact, they would require an equal part of the organisational 
costs of ripe to maintain them, as ipv4 lirs.

the whole billing scheme is just there to "operate ripe"..

its supposed to cover the "operating costs" of ripe, not to translate 
directly into "how many ipv4 ips you have registered with ripe"

(keep in mind, ripe is just a database, you can announce whatever you want 
anyway, just that its more politically correct towards other isps to 
communicate it with ripe, as someone has to pay for their offices and 
staff etc, someone sometime a long long time ago made up this billing 
model thingy ;)

the "database operating costs" and the organisation costs do not translate 
in any way to the "number of ipv4 addresses" one holds.

i'd say we just stick with the current billing model for the time ipv4 is 
still relevant... then work out a new one later on, when nobody -needs- 
ipv4 anymore anyway (the moment google and facebook go, everyone will go 
;) i can perfectly well see a scenario where it no longer makes sense to 
keep track of ipv4 (and within a few months even)...

and remember kids, ipv4 wasn't the "first" protocol of the internet, the 
internet and its main part, ARPA, has seen several other protocols, and 
includes several other networks, some of which ran completely different 
stuff before gatewaying to "the internet", thereby becoming part of it, ip 
based or not (compuserve anyone?)

(our companies originating from packet radio, which still mostly runs x.25 
(with or without ipv4 over it) for example ;)

now, there once were databases keeping track of x.25 node names on packet 
radio (whitepages), should they have been on a paid basis, do you think 
people would still want to pay for those obsolete registrations nowadays?

do you still pay compuserve for your "GO XXXXXXX" name?

would you still pay for domain name registrations once only a very few 
dusty old nerds still use dns ?

i don't think it makes much sense to base ripes billing model on ipv4... 
IT WILL RUN OUT IN A FEW MONTHS ANYWAY, A NEW BILLING MODEL WON'T STOP 
THAT

(especially not since LEGACY PRE-RIR ranges cannot be contractually forced 
to pay anyway, plus, that kind of company would not care about a few 10000 
more or less anyway and still keep the ranges ;)

ipv4_having_run_out && google_and_facebook_and_akamai_supporting_v6 == 
instant force of all access networks to switch -now- ==
forcing the rest of the content to do the same (porn).

any day now...

and you want to go through the process of re-building ripes billing model, 
based on ipv4... in 2011... come back 15 years ago, when ipv4 was still 
relevant, if we do this now, we have to re-do the thing in a few months 
time anyway.



>
> Regards,
> Marcel Edler
>
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