From hank at efes.iucc.ac.il Thu Jul 16 06:22:11 2009 From: hank at efes.iucc.ac.il (Hank Nussbacher) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:22:11 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> At 16:05 13/07/2009 +0200, Axel Pawlik wrote: Can someone point me to the docs in regards to what happens to resources a LIR marks as "not my customer"? According to http://www.ripe.net/rs/pi-existing-assignments.html on Dec 31, 2009 RIPE will consider those resources as orphans and contact the end users. What happens then? How long does the end user have to sign on with RIPE? At what point will RIPE revoke the allocations? Is there a doc on that entire procedure and timeline we can give customers? Regards, Hank >Dear Colleagues, > >The RIPE NCC has formulated a Draft Charging Scheme 2010 that will take >into account the requirements of policy proposal 2007-01, "Direct Internet >Resource Assignments to End Users from the RIPE NCC", and the discussions >that took place at the RIPE NCC General Meeting in May 2009 regarding the >2010 Charging Scheme. > >The proposed Draft Charging Scheme 2010 is now available to view at: >http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/draft-charging-scheme-2010.html > >Membership discussion of the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 proposal can take >place at . > >The RIPE NCC Executive Board will monitor discussion and input from the >RIPE NCC membership before publishing a final version of the Draft >Charging Scheme 2010 by 9 September 2009. The RIPE NCC membership will >vote on this version at the RIPE NCC General Meeting on 7 October 2009. > >The RIPE NCC notes that this proposal for the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 >is subject to change based on advice from the RIPE NCC's lawyers on tax >and legal issues. > >For more information, please see the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 FAQs: >http://www.ripe.net/info/faq/membership/charging-scheme.html > >Best regards, > >Axel Pawlik >Managing Director >RIPE NCC From andrea at ripe.net Thu Jul 16 14:27:43 2009 From: andrea at ripe.net (Andrea Cima) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:27:43 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> Message-ID: <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dear Hank, The main focus points of Phase 2 of this policy implementation are to ensure there is a contract in place between End Users and their sponsoring LIR, and allowing LIRs to exclude from their 2010 billing fee independent Internet number resources linked to End Users that are not customers of the LIR. As you mention, resources of End Users who do not have a contract in place with an LIR or with the RIPE NCC by 31 December 2009 will be considered "orphaned". The RIPE NCC will start contacting the End Users of those independent Internet number resources in 2010 (Phase 3 of the policy implementation), asking them to sign a contract either with a sponsoring LIR or with the RIPE NCC. The exact timeline will depend on the number of "orphaned" resources. We are currently preparing different scenarios based on current statistics. A procedure for "orphaned" End User resources with regards to timelines and (de-)registration details will be published in advance. If you have any further feedback or questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Kind regards, Andrea Cima RIPE NCC Hank Nussbacher wrote: > At 16:05 13/07/2009 +0200, Axel Pawlik wrote: > > Can someone point me to the docs in regards to what happens to resources > a LIR marks as "not my customer"? According to > http://www.ripe.net/rs/pi-existing-assignments.html on Dec 31, 2009 RIPE > will consider those resources as orphans and contact the end users. > What happens then? How long does the end user have to sign on with > RIPE? At what point will RIPE revoke the allocations? Is there a doc > on that entire procedure and timeline we can give customers? > > Regards, > Hank > > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> The RIPE NCC has formulated a Draft Charging Scheme 2010 that will >> take into account the requirements of policy proposal 2007-01, "Direct >> Internet Resource Assignments to End Users from the RIPE NCC", and the >> discussions that took place at the RIPE NCC General Meeting in May >> 2009 regarding the 2010 Charging Scheme. >> >> The proposed Draft Charging Scheme 2010 is now available to view at: >> http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/draft-charging-scheme-2010.html >> >> Membership discussion of the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 proposal can >> take place at . >> >> The RIPE NCC Executive Board will monitor discussion and input from >> the RIPE NCC membership before publishing a final version of the Draft >> Charging Scheme 2010 by 9 September 2009. The RIPE NCC membership will >> vote on this version at the RIPE NCC General Meeting on 7 October 2009. >> >> The RIPE NCC notes that this proposal for the Draft Charging Scheme >> 2010 is subject to change based on advice from the RIPE NCC's lawyers >> on tax and legal issues. >> >> For more information, please see the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 FAQs: >> http://www.ripe.net/info/faq/membership/charging-scheme.html >> >> Best regards, >> >> Axel Pawlik >> Managing Director >> RIPE NCC > > ---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members > Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: > http://lirportal.ripe.net/ > First click on General and then click on Edit. > At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpfHL8ACgkQXOgsmPkFrjOkCgCdE7T0oFLIMuV9fE9z/4AGV6Wb vaEAn1XrDkm21ux158yPV6sUheQRuF4g =30Hi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From zivl at gilat.net Thu Jul 16 15:02:12 2009 From: zivl at gilat.net (Ziv Leyes) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:02:12 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> Message-ID: Thanks Hank for the question, I was about to ask the same and thanks Andrea for the answers. I want to make sure I understood, the "orphaned" resources, such as ASNUM for instance, will be able to contact and sign a contract directly with RIPE? If yes, then why will any of them opt to sign with a LIR if they can be fully independent and work directly with RIPE? What happens with some ASNUMs that are nowadays belonging to the Afrinic geographical zone? Is it possible to "transfer" an ASNUM resource from RIPE to Afrinic or any other? Thanks, Ziv -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-admin at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-admin at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrea Cima Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:28 PM To: Hank Nussbacher Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dear Hank, The main focus points of Phase 2 of this policy implementation are to ensure there is a contract in place between End Users and their sponsoring LIR, and allowing LIRs to exclude from their 2010 billing fee independent Internet number resources linked to End Users that are not customers of the LIR. As you mention, resources of End Users who do not have a contract in place with an LIR or with the RIPE NCC by 31 December 2009 will be considered "orphaned". The RIPE NCC will start contacting the End Users of those independent Internet number resources in 2010 (Phase 3 of the policy implementation), asking them to sign a contract either with a sponsoring LIR or with the RIPE NCC. The exact timeline will depend on the number of "orphaned" resources. We are currently preparing different scenarios based on current statistics. A procedure for "orphaned" End User resources with regards to timelines and (de-)registration details will be published in advance. If you have any further feedback or questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Kind regards, Andrea Cima RIPE NCC Hank Nussbacher wrote: > At 16:05 13/07/2009 +0200, Axel Pawlik wrote: > > Can someone point me to the docs in regards to what happens to resources > a LIR marks as "not my customer"? According to > http://www.ripe.net/rs/pi-existing-assignments.html on Dec 31, 2009 RIPE > will consider those resources as orphans and contact the end users. > What happens then? How long does the end user have to sign on with > RIPE? At what point will RIPE revoke the allocations? Is there a doc > on that entire procedure and timeline we can give customers? > > Regards, > Hank > > >> Dear Colleagues, >> >> The RIPE NCC has formulated a Draft Charging Scheme 2010 that will >> take into account the requirements of policy proposal 2007-01, "Direct >> Internet Resource Assignments to End Users from the RIPE NCC", and the >> discussions that took place at the RIPE NCC General Meeting in May >> 2009 regarding the 2010 Charging Scheme. >> >> The proposed Draft Charging Scheme 2010 is now available to view at: >> http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/draft-charging-scheme-2010.html >> >> Membership discussion of the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 proposal can >> take place at . >> >> The RIPE NCC Executive Board will monitor discussion and input from >> the RIPE NCC membership before publishing a final version of the Draft >> Charging Scheme 2010 by 9 September 2009. The RIPE NCC membership will >> vote on this version at the RIPE NCC General Meeting on 7 October 2009. >> >> The RIPE NCC notes that this proposal for the Draft Charging Scheme >> 2010 is subject to change based on advice from the RIPE NCC's lawyers >> on tax and legal issues. >> >> For more information, please see the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 FAQs: >> http://www.ripe.net/info/faq/membership/charging-scheme.html >> >> Best regards, >> >> Axel Pawlik >> Managing Director >> RIPE NCC > > ---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members > Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: > http://lirportal.ripe.net/ > First click on General and then click on Edit. > At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpfHL8ACgkQXOgsmPkFrjOkCgCdE7T0oFLIMuV9fE9z/4AGV6Wb vaEAn1XrDkm21ux158yPV6sUheQRuF4g =30Hi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: http://lirportal.ripe.net/ First click on General and then click on Edit. At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses. ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Thu Jul 16 14:57:35 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:57:35 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> Message-ID: <4A5F23BF.3020702@is-production.com> Hello, Thank you for this announcement, but i would need more informations to analyse and build my ideas : Axel Pawlik wrote: > discussions that took place at the RIPE NCC General Meeting in May 2009 > regarding the 2010 Charging Scheme. Please could anyone tell me where i can find a description of these discussions ? I have only found the presentation made at : http://www.ripe.net/membership/gm/gm-may2009/presentations/charging-scheme-2010.pdf but no description of discussions around this presentation. > The proposed Draft Charging Scheme 2010 is now available to view at: > http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/draft-charging-scheme-2010.html This Draft is showing us the "Percentage of Total Members per Billing Category" table, but to understand the ressource management and "the workload involved in providing the services", i would need to see a table showing us the number of ressources (AS, /19V4,...,/32V6) and TotalScoring per Billing categories. Would anybody from RIPE able to summarize and show such a table on the list ? > Membership discussion of the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 proposal can > take place at . My first try on this list, please apologize if any mistake. Thanks a lot, Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From hank at efes.iucc.ac.il Thu Jul 16 16:21:30 2009 From: hank at efes.iucc.ac.il (Hank Nussbacher) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:21:30 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jul 2009, Ziv Leyes wrote: If I understand correctly, an end user would have to pay RIPE 1300Euro in the 1st year whereas if you migrate the ASN to an upstream ISP that is a LIR, then that LIR would have an extra 50Euro/yr cost which they would gladly charge the end user 100Euro/yr - they make a profit and the end user saves a ton of money and a ton of forms to fill out with RIPE. -Hank > Thanks Hank for the question, I was about to ask the same and thanks Andrea for the answers. > I want to make sure I understood, the "orphaned" resources, such as ASNUM for instance, will be able to contact and sign a contract directly with RIPE? > If yes, then why will any of them opt to sign with a LIR if they can be fully independent and work directly with RIPE? > What happens with some ASNUMs that are nowadays belonging to the Afrinic geographical zone? Is it possible to "transfer" an ASNUM resource from RIPE to Afrinic or any other? > Thanks, > Ziv > > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss-admin at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-admin at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrea Cima > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:28 PM > To: Hank Nussbacher > Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Dear Hank, > > The main focus points of Phase 2 of this policy implementation are to > ensure there is a contract in place between End Users and their > sponsoring LIR, and allowing LIRs to exclude from their 2010 billing fee > independent Internet number resources linked to End Users that are not > customers of the LIR. > > As you mention, resources of End Users who do not have a contract in > place with an LIR or with the RIPE NCC by 31 December 2009 will be > considered "orphaned". > > The RIPE NCC will start contacting the End Users of those independent > Internet number resources in 2010 (Phase 3 of the policy > implementation), asking them to sign a contract either with a sponsoring > LIR or with the RIPE NCC. The exact timeline will depend on the number > of "orphaned" resources. We are currently preparing different scenarios > based on current statistics. > > A procedure for "orphaned" End User resources with regards to timelines > and (de-)registration details will be published in advance. > > If you have any further feedback or questions, please don't hesitate to > contact me. > > Kind regards, > > Andrea Cima > RIPE NCC > > > Hank Nussbacher wrote: >> At 16:05 13/07/2009 +0200, Axel Pawlik wrote: >> >> Can someone point me to the docs in regards to what happens to resources >> a LIR marks as "not my customer"? According to >> http://www.ripe.net/rs/pi-existing-assignments.html on Dec 31, 2009 RIPE >> will consider those resources as orphans and contact the end users. >> What happens then? How long does the end user have to sign on with >> RIPE? At what point will RIPE revoke the allocations? Is there a doc >> on that entire procedure and timeline we can give customers? >> >> Regards, >> Hank >> >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> The RIPE NCC has formulated a Draft Charging Scheme 2010 that will >>> take into account the requirements of policy proposal 2007-01, "Direct >>> Internet Resource Assignments to End Users from the RIPE NCC", and the >>> discussions that took place at the RIPE NCC General Meeting in May >>> 2009 regarding the 2010 Charging Scheme. >>> >>> The proposed Draft Charging Scheme 2010 is now available to view at: >>> http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/draft-charging-scheme-2010.html >>> >>> Membership discussion of the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 proposal can >>> take place at . >>> >>> The RIPE NCC Executive Board will monitor discussion and input from >>> the RIPE NCC membership before publishing a final version of the Draft >>> Charging Scheme 2010 by 9 September 2009. The RIPE NCC membership will >>> vote on this version at the RIPE NCC General Meeting on 7 October 2009. >>> >>> The RIPE NCC notes that this proposal for the Draft Charging Scheme >>> 2010 is subject to change based on advice from the RIPE NCC's lawyers >>> on tax and legal issues. >>> >>> For more information, please see the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 FAQs: >>> http://www.ripe.net/info/faq/membership/charging-scheme.html >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Axel Pawlik >>> Managing Director >>> RIPE NCC >> >> ---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members >> Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: >> http://lirportal.ripe.net/ >> First click on General and then click on Edit. >> At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.11 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkpfHL8ACgkQXOgsmPkFrjOkCgCdE7T0oFLIMuV9fE9z/4AGV6Wb > vaEAn1XrDkm21ux158yPV6sUheQRuF4g > =30Hi > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ---- > If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: http://lirportal.ripe.net/ > First click on General and then click on Edit. > At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses. > > > > ************************************************************************************ > This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by > PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. > ************************************************************************************ > > > > > > > ************************************************************************************ > This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by > PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. > ************************************************************************************ > > > > ---- > If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: http://lirportal.ripe.net/ > First click on General and then click on Edit. > At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses. > From members-discuss at nepustil.net Thu Jul 16 15:49:34 2009 From: members-discuss at nepustil.net (Kurt Jaeger) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:49:34 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> Message-ID: <20090716134934.GU68479@complx.nepustil.net> Hi! Ziv Leyes wrote: > I want to make sure I understood, the "orphaned" resources, such > as ASNUM for instance, will be able to contact and sign a contract > directly with RIPE? Yes. > If yes, then why will any of them opt to sign with a LIR if they > can be fully independent and work directly with RIPE? The price is pretty expensive for a direct contract. > What happens with some ASNUMs that are nowadays belonging to the > Afrinic geographical zone? Is it possible to "transfer" an ASNUM > resource from RIPE to Afrinic or any other? Have a look at http://www.ripe.net/projects/erx/ -- MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger 11 years to go ! Dr.-Ing. Nepustil & Co. GmbH fon +49 7123 93006-0 pi at nepustil.net Rathausstr. 3 fax +49 7123 93006-99 72658 Bempflingen mob +49 171 3101372 From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Thu Jul 16 15:34:24 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:34:24 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] gm-may2009/presentations/voting-options.pdf In-Reply-To: <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> Message-ID: <4A5F2C60.4010306@is-production.com> Hello, Concerning the presentation on voting options made in may 2009, i may only approve the goal of having a process that allow to have a better representation of all RIPE members on the board. I have found the list of all current and past board persons : http://www.ripe.net/info/ncc/board/ http://www.ripe.net/info/ncc/board/previous.html Q1-May i ask to add to these tables for the current and past board people, which RIPE members they are from (as members are quite often organisations) and which billing categories are these members ? Concerning the possible process for board members, there is a 4th solution that is at the same time simple and that allow the best representativity. This is the process that is used for justice courts "JURY", and also the root of "democracy" in ancient greek times : having a random drawing between all members. This is at same time simple (just needing a hat, big enough for 6000 members ;-) and allow that anybody can be elected. Statistic laws ensure for representativity. Q2- May i ask to include the "Random drawing" process in the next presentation of board building process ? Thanks a lot, Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From gabriella.paolini at garr.it Thu Jul 16 16:02:52 2009 From: gabriella.paolini at garr.it (Gabriella Paolini) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:02:52 +0200 Subject: [LIR] Re: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> Message-ID: <4A5F330C.3040302@garr.it> Dear Andrea, dear all, maybe I missed something in the discussion. I don't see any reference to Early Registration Transfer project objects. Are PIs that were involved in ERX considered "orphaned" by default? Or there is a place (they are not in LIR Portal resources) where I can say "this is one of My End User" ? Perhaps this should be a common problem for "old" LIR. Kind regards, Gabriella Paolini -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [LIR] Re: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 From: Andrea Cima To: Hank Nussbacher CC: members-discuss at ripe.net Date: Gioved? 16 Luglio 2009 14.27.43 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Dear Hank, > > ... > -- Gabriella Paolini _________________ GARR Italian National Research and Education Network Via dei Tizii, 6 - 00185 Rome direct: +39 06 4962 2507 mobile: +39 334 6533 252 gabriella.paolini at garr.it - http://www.garr.it/ From rhe at nosc.ja.net Thu Jul 16 17:03:05 2009 From: rhe at nosc.ja.net (Rob Evans) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:03:05 +0100 Subject: [LIR] Re: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A5F330C.3040302@garr.it> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> <4A5F330C.3040302@garr.it> Message-ID: <4A5F4129.2040808@nosc.ja.net> > I don't see any reference to Early Registration Transfer project objects. > Are PIs that were involved in ERX considered "orphaned" by default? In the version of 2007-01 that was eventually approved, resources that were not allocated by the RIPE NCC (i.e. pre-date the RIRs) are expressly excluded and not subject to the fees. "This proposal does not cover number resources marked in the RIPE database as Early Registration (ERX) or NOT-SET. It also does not cover number resources listed in the RIPE database which were assigned by InterNIC or assigned or allocated by other Regional Internet Registries." We have had a couple of interesting discussions with the hostmasters as this information was filtered through. :) Rob -- JANET(UK) is a trading name of The JNT Association, a company limited by guarantee which is registered in England under No. 2881024 and whose Registered Office is at Lumen House, Library Avenue, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire. OX11 0SG From andrea at ripe.net Thu Jul 16 17:03:35 2009 From: andrea at ripe.net (Andrea Cima) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:03:35 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> Message-ID: <4A5F4147.8040108@ripe.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dear Ziv, You are correct. End Users of "orphaned" Internet number resources will have the choice to either sign a contract with a sponsoring LIR or with the RIPE NCC. However, "Contractual Requirements for Provider Independent Resource Holders in the RIPE NCC Service Region" states: "The preferred model of the RIPE community is for End Users to have a contractual relationship with a sponsoring LIR instead of directly with the RIPE NCC." End Users signing a contract with the RIPE NCC will be charged a one-time Administration fee and an annual Maintenance fee as according to: http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/procedure-enduser.html With regards to AS numbers and other Internet number resources assigned to organisations in the AfriNIC service region, those have been transferred or are in the process of being transferred to AfriNIC. They do not fall under the policy implementation "Direct Internet Resource Assignments to End Users from the RIPE NCC". For more information, please see: http://ripe.net/projects/erx/transferred.html I hope this clarifies. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Kind regards, Andrea Cima RIPE NCC Ziv Leyes wrote: > Thanks Hank for the question, I was about to ask the same and thanks Andrea for the answers. > I want to make sure I understood, the "orphaned" resources, such as ASNUM for instance, will be able to contact and sign a contract directly with RIPE? > If yes, then why will any of them opt to sign with a LIR if they can be fully independent and work directly with RIPE? > What happens with some ASNUMs that are nowadays belonging to the Afrinic geographical zone? Is it possible to "transfer" an ASNUM resource from RIPE to Afrinic or any other? > Thanks, > Ziv > > -----Original Message----- > From: members-discuss-admin at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-admin at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Andrea Cima > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:28 PM > To: Hank Nussbacher > Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net > Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 > > > Dear Hank, > > The main focus points of Phase 2 of this policy implementation are to > ensure there is a contract in place between End Users and their > sponsoring LIR, and allowing LIRs to exclude from their 2010 billing fee > independent Internet number resources linked to End Users that are not > customers of the LIR. > > As you mention, resources of End Users who do not have a contract in > place with an LIR or with the RIPE NCC by 31 December 2009 will be > considered "orphaned". > > The RIPE NCC will start contacting the End Users of those independent > Internet number resources in 2010 (Phase 3 of the policy > implementation), asking them to sign a contract either with a sponsoring > LIR or with the RIPE NCC. The exact timeline will depend on the number > of "orphaned" resources. We are currently preparing different scenarios > based on current statistics. > > A procedure for "orphaned" End User resources with regards to timelines > and (de-)registration details will be published in advance. > > If you have any further feedback or questions, please don't hesitate to > contact me. > > Kind regards, > > Andrea Cima > RIPE NCC > > > Hank Nussbacher wrote: >> At 16:05 13/07/2009 +0200, Axel Pawlik wrote: > >> Can someone point me to the docs in regards to what happens to resources >> a LIR marks as "not my customer"? According to >> http://www.ripe.net/rs/pi-existing-assignments.html on Dec 31, 2009 RIPE >> will consider those resources as orphans and contact the end users. >> What happens then? How long does the end user have to sign on with >> RIPE? At what point will RIPE revoke the allocations? Is there a doc >> on that entire procedure and timeline we can give customers? > >> Regards, >> Hank > > >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> The RIPE NCC has formulated a Draft Charging Scheme 2010 that will >>> take into account the requirements of policy proposal 2007-01, "Direct >>> Internet Resource Assignments to End Users from the RIPE NCC", and the >>> discussions that took place at the RIPE NCC General Meeting in May >>> 2009 regarding the 2010 Charging Scheme. >>> >>> The proposed Draft Charging Scheme 2010 is now available to view at: >>> http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/draft-charging-scheme-2010.html >>> >>> Membership discussion of the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 proposal can >>> take place at . >>> >>> The RIPE NCC Executive Board will monitor discussion and input from >>> the RIPE NCC membership before publishing a final version of the Draft >>> Charging Scheme 2010 by 9 September 2009. The RIPE NCC membership will >>> vote on this version at the RIPE NCC General Meeting on 7 October 2009. >>> >>> The RIPE NCC notes that this proposal for the Draft Charging Scheme >>> 2010 is subject to change based on advice from the RIPE NCC's lawyers >>> on tax and legal issues. >>> >>> For more information, please see the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 FAQs: >>> http://www.ripe.net/info/faq/membership/charging-scheme.html >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Axel Pawlik >>> Managing Director >>> RIPE NCC >> ---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members >> Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: >> http://lirportal.ripe.net/ >> First click on General and then click on Edit. >> At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses. > - ---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: http://lirportal.ripe.net/ First click on General and then click on Edit. At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses. ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ - ---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: http://lirportal.ripe.net/ First click on General and then click on Edit. At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpfQUcACgkQXOgsmPkFrjPeKgCghEK0JChYO+tGYMIeygyYUgfZ hiwAn1VFF86RsPqLgrHrBdtorux08Wz7 =FJOQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From andrea at ripe.net Thu Jul 16 17:14:21 2009 From: andrea at ripe.net (Andrea Cima) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:14:21 +0200 Subject: [LIR] Re: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A5F330C.3040302@garr.it> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> <4A5F330C.3040302@garr.it> Message-ID: <4A5F43CD.9080307@ripe.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dear Gabriella, The approved policy "Direct Internet Resource Assignments to End Users from the RIPE NCC" states: "This fourth version also argues that the proposal covers all End Users of provider independent number resources previously assigned either directly by the RIPE NCC or through a RIPE NCC Local Internet Registry. This proposal does not cover number resources marked in the RIPE Database as Early Registration (ERX) or NOT-SET. It also does not cover number resources listed in the RIPE Database which were assigned by InterNIC or assigned or allocated by other Regional Internet Registries." http://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2007-01.html For this reason Early Registration (ERX) Internet number resources are not covered by this policy implementation. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to contact me. Kind regards, Andrea Cima RIPE NCC Gabriella Paolini wrote: > Dear Andrea, dear all, > maybe I missed something in the discussion. > I don't see any reference to Early Registration Transfer project objects. > Are PIs that were involved in ERX considered "orphaned" by default? > Or there is a place (they are not in LIR Portal resources) where I can > say "this is one of My End User" ? > Perhaps this should be a common problem for "old" LIR. > > Kind regards, > Gabriella Paolini > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [LIR] Re: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC > Charging Scheme 2010 > From: Andrea Cima > To: Hank Nussbacher > CC: members-discuss at ripe.net > Date: Gioved? 16 Luglio 2009 14.27.43 >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> >> Dear Hank, >> >> ... >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkpfQ80ACgkQXOgsmPkFrjOj+wCggqiZqKSWBnCJcqAkYVVNsdiw dQoAoL9rxQDML9fpqDhrST1bqRnY+rA0 =EqLL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rhe at nosc.ja.net Thu Jul 16 17:22:05 2009 From: rhe at nosc.ja.net (Rob Evans) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:22:05 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] gm-may2009/presentations/voting-options.pdf In-Reply-To: <4A5F2C60.4010306@is-production.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> <4A5F2C60.4010306@is-production.com> Message-ID: <4A5F459D.1080408@nosc.ja.net> > Concerning the possible process for board members, there is a 4th > solution that is at the same time simple and that allow the best > representativity. This is the process that is used for justice courts > "JURY", and also the root of "democracy" in ancient greek times : having > a random drawing between all members. Forgive me, I'm struggling to see the similarity between a jury and the RIPE NCC executive board. A closer comparison would be between a council or government and the board. I don't believe there are many countries or regions where the former is taken from a random selection of the population -- many people don't want to do it, or don't have the skills to do it, even though they have a vested interest in the outcome. The purpose of an election is for the members to choose who they wish to represent them in the governing body. Cheers, Rob -- JANET(UK) is a trading name of The JNT Association, a company limited by guarantee which is registered in England under No. 2881024 and whose Registered Office is at Lumen House, Library Avenue, Harwell Science and Innovation Campus, Didcot, Oxfordshire. OX11 0SG From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Tue Jul 21 08:34:02 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:34:02 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] gm-may2009/presentations/voting-options.pdf In-Reply-To: <4A5F459D.1080408@nosc.ja.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> <4A5F2C60.4010306@is-production.com> <4A5F459D.1080408@nosc.ja.net> Message-ID: <4A65615A.8010000@is-production.com> Rob Evans wrote: >>Concerning the possible process for board members, there is a 4th >>solution that is at the same time simple and that allow the best >>representativity. This is the process that is used for justice courts >>"JURY", and also the root of "democracy" in ancient greek times : having >>a random drawing between all members. > > Forgive me, I'm struggling to see the similarity between a jury and the > RIPE NCC executive board. A closer comparison would be between a council or government and the > board. Even now, a court jury may decide of life and death, what is more important ? I don't believe there are many countries or regions where the > former is taken from a random selection of the population The original "democracy" was based on random selection in greece : this was to avoid that economical powers would ridge the election process through influences... The current political election process is no democracy, this is beauty contest and psychology warfare, where the most you ads and frighten people, the most you win. I'm not telling that RIPE elections are like that :-) But don't take current political process as a model... -- many people > don't want to do it, Anybody may and can refuse. Just take the next, like in jury. or don't have the skills to do it, Do you think that all current elected political people have some skills out from being good actors ? even though they > have a vested interest in the outcome. The purpose of an election is > for the members to choose who they wish to represent them in the > governing body. I don't know personnally anybody in the current board, how can i choose and judge their skills ? The result is that i have not voted until now, because i don't know anybody and the cost to go to the GM meeting is too high... And currently, i am not sure the current board is representing the members : how many boards members are from ExtraSmall and Small categories ? This is why i ask to know which RIPE members are representing the current boards members. Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Tue Jul 21 08:34:16 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:34:16 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] gm-may2009/presentations/voting-options.pdf In-Reply-To: <4A5F459D.1080408@nosc.ja.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> <4A5F2C60.4010306@is-production.com> <4A5F459D.1080408@nosc.ja.net> Message-ID: <4A656168.3000202@is-production.com> Rob Evans wrote: >>Concerning the possible process for board members, there is a 4th >>solution that is at the same time simple and that allow the best >>representativity. This is the process that is used for justice courts >>"JURY", and also the root of "democracy" in ancient greek times : having >>a random drawing between all members. > > Forgive me, I'm struggling to see the similarity between a jury and the > RIPE NCC executive board. A closer comparison would be between a council or government and the > board. Even now, a court jury may decide of life and death, what is more important ? I don't believe there are many countries or regions where the > former is taken from a random selection of the population The original "democracy" was based on random selection in greece : this was to avoid that economical powers would ridge the election process through influences... The current political election process is no democracy, this is beauty contest and psychology warfare, where the most you ads and frighten people, the most you win. I'm not telling that RIPE elections are like that :-) But don't take current political process as a model... -- many people > don't want to do it, Anybody may and can refuse. Just take the next, like in jury. or don't have the skills to do it, Do you think that all current elected political people have some skills out from being good actors ? even though they > have a vested interest in the outcome. The purpose of an election is > for the members to choose who they wish to represent them in the > governing body. I don't know personnally anybody in the current board, how can i choose and judge their skills ? The result is that i have not voted until now, because i don't know anybody and the cost to go to the GM meeting is too high... And currently, i am not sure the current board is representing the members : how many boards members are from ExtraSmall and Small categories ? This is why i ask to know which RIPE members are representing the current boards members. Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Tue Jul 21 09:17:59 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 09:17:59 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> Message-ID: <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> Any problem with this message ? I have received no reaction... Best regards. Hello, Thank you for this announcement, but i would need more informations to analyse and build my ideas : Axel Pawlik wrote: > discussions that took place at the RIPE NCC General Meeting in May 2009 > regarding the 2010 Charging Scheme. Please could anyone tell me where i can find a description of these discussions ? I have only found the presentation made at : http://www.ripe.net/membership/gm/gm-may2009/presentations/charging-scheme-2010.pdf but no description of discussions around this presentation. > The proposed Draft Charging Scheme 2010 is now available to view at: > http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/draft-charging-scheme-2010.html This Draft is showing us the "Percentage of Total Members per Billing Category" table, but to understand the ressource management and "the workload involved in providing the services", i would need to see a table showing us the number of ressources (AS, /19V4,...,/32V6) and TotalScoring per Billing categories. Would anybody from RIPE able to summarize and show such a table on the list ? > Membership discussion of the Draft Charging Scheme 2010 proposal can > take place at . My first try on this list, please apologize if any mistake. Thanks a lot, Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From thomas.mangin at exa-networks.co.uk Tue Jul 21 09:59:44 2009 From: thomas.mangin at exa-networks.co.uk (Thomas Mangin) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:59:44 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> Message-ID: <56267111-7FB4-4878-A42B-E365CAE69020@exa-networks.co.uk> Hi Bernard, > Any problem with this message ? I have received no reaction... This mail was well delivered to members. I am just unable to provide you an answer to your question, so are surely many others. .... or the pleb is incurious and unwilling to be bothered by patrician discussions :D > Would anybody from RIPE able to summarize and show such a table on > the list ? I am not sure the information is even available atm, but I am not the right person to ask anyway. Thomas From jochem at ripe.net Tue Jul 21 10:00:58 2009 From: jochem at ripe.net (Jochem de Ruig) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:00:58 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> Message-ID: <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> Hi Bernard, >> discussions that took place at the RIPE NCC General Meeting in May >> 2009 regarding the 2010 Charging Scheme. > > Please could anyone tell me where i can find a description of these > discussions ? I have only found the presentation made at : > http://www.ripe.net/membership/gm/gm-may2009/presentations/charging-scheme-2010.pdf > > but no description of discussions around this presentation. > The minutes of the General Meeting have only just become available you can see them at: http://www.ripe.net/membership/gm/gm-may2009/minutes.html The discussion that took place on this mailing list you can find on: http://www.ripe.net/maillists/ncc-archives/members-discuss/2009/index.html#00064 >> The proposed Draft Charging Scheme 2010 is now available to view at: >> http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/draft-charging-scheme-2010.html > > This Draft is showing us the "Percentage of Total Members per Billing > Category" table, but to understand the ressource management and "the > workload involved in providing the services", i would need to see a > table showing us the number of ressources (AS, /19V4,...,/32V6) and > TotalScoring per Billing categories. > > Would anybody from RIPE able to summarize and show such a table on the > list ? The table you can find the table of the total billing scores for 2009 in the billing procedure see: http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/procedure-lir.html The billing scores for members are determined after the RIPE NCC General Meeting in October, (based on data of 30 September). The billing categories for 2009 are: LIR Billing Category, Maximum Score EXTRA SMALL, 27 SMALL, 150 MEDIUM, 1,233 LARGE, 8,047 EXTRA LARGE, 282,403 Also you can find a more detailed explanation about the billing score calculation at: http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/calculation.html Kind regards, Jochem de Ruig RIPE NCC From dmitry at volia.net Tue Jul 21 10:05:21 2009 From: dmitry at volia.net (Dmitry Kiselev) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:05:21 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Charging scheme draft again Message-ID: <20090721080521.GH1385@f17.dmitry.net> Hello! Could anybody point me to discussion archive or any sorce, except charging-scheme-2010.pdf, where discussed my question: "Why PA allocation size and year of allocation takes into account while LIR's score calculation and, in the same time, PI assignment size and year of assignment does not?" Thanks for Your advices! -- Dmitry Kiselev From tonnerre.lombard at sygroup.ch Tue Jul 21 10:39:19 2009 From: tonnerre.lombard at sygroup.ch (Tonnerre Lombard) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:39:19 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Charging scheme draft again In-Reply-To: <20090721080521.GH1385@f17.dmitry.net> References: <20090721080521.GH1385@f17.dmitry.net> Message-ID: <20090721083919.GM14945@wssyg117.sygroup-int.ch> Salut, On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:05:21AM +0300, Dmitry Kiselev wrote: > Could anybody point me to discussion archive or any sorce, > except charging-scheme-2010.pdf, where discussed my question: > "Why PA allocation size and year of allocation takes into > account while LIR's score calculation and, in the same time, > PI assignment size and year of assignment does not?" Because those ressources don't belong to the LIR and are already billed separately I'd think. Kind regards, Tonnerre -- SyGroup GmbH Tonnerre Lombard Solutions Systematiques Tel:+41 61 333 80 33 G?terstrasse 86 Fax:+41 61 383 14 67 4053 Basel Web:www.sygroup.ch tonnerre.lombard at sygroup.ch -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Tue Jul 21 10:52:01 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:52:01 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> Message-ID: <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> Hi Jochem, Jochem de Ruig wrote: >>Please could anyone tell me where i can find a description of these >>discussions ? I have only found the presentation made at : >>http://www.ripe.net/membership/gm/gm-may2009/presentations/charging-scheme-2010.pdf >>but no description of discussions around this presentation. > > The minutes of the General Meeting have only just become available you > can see them at: > http://www.ripe.net/membership/gm/gm-may2009/minutes.html > > The discussion that took place on this mailing list you can find on: > http://www.ripe.net/maillists/ncc-archives/members-discuss/2009/index.html#00064 Thanks a lot : it seems that discussions were mainly on the PI new process, in both GM and discussion list. >>>The proposed Draft Charging Scheme 2010 is now available to view at: >>>http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/draft-charging-scheme-2010.html >> >>This Draft is showing us the "Percentage of Total Members per Billing >>Category" table, but to understand the ressource management and "the >>workload involved in providing the services", i would need to see a >>table showing us the number of ressources (AS, /19V4,...,/32V6) and >>TotalScoring per Billing categories. >> >>Would anybody from RIPE able to summarize and show such a table on the >>list ? > > The table you can find the table of the total billing scores for 2009 in > the billing procedure see: > http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/procedure-lir.html I understand the calculations (now :-) and know the maximum score for each category, but i would need the SUM of the scores of all members in each category : this will give us a view on how ressources are used by each category. As far as i know, this is not published to members until now, may you please make this important information available to members ? Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From dmitry at volia.net Tue Jul 21 11:07:17 2009 From: dmitry at volia.net (Dmitry Kiselev) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:07:17 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Charging scheme draft again In-Reply-To: <20090721083919.GM14945@wssyg117.sygroup-int.ch> References: <20090721080521.GH1385@f17.dmitry.net> <20090721083919.GM14945@wssyg117.sygroup-int.ch> Message-ID: <20090721090717.GI1385@f17.dmitry.net> Hello! On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:39:19AM +0200, Tonnerre Lombard wrote: > Salut, > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 11:05:21AM +0300, Dmitry Kiselev wrote: > > Could anybody point me to discussion archive or any sorce, > > except charging-scheme-2010.pdf, where discussed my question: > > "Why PA allocation size and year of allocation takes into > > account while LIR's score calculation and, in the same time, > > PI assignment size and year of assignment does not?" > > Because those ressources don't belong to the LIR and are already > billed separately I'd think. No, it is not that I mean. My question about "why PI assignment size and year of assignment doesn't take into account while DA fee calculation"? Scenarios B1, B2 and C does not do that. And in the same time scenarios B1, B2 and C use this criterias for LIR's score/fee calculation. Why? Why DA better/worse than LIR's PA? According to B1,B2 and C. -- Dmitry Kiselev From Wouter.DeClercq at infrax.be Tue Jul 21 11:14:26 2009 From: Wouter.DeClercq at infrax.be (Wouter De Clercq) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:14:26 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Wouter De Clercq is afwezig. Message-ID: Ik ben afwezig vanaf 17/07/2009 en ik ben niet eerder terug dan 10/08/2009. Voor dringende zaken kan u steeds terecht bij mijn collega's. Met vriendelijke groet, Wouter -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Tue Jul 21 11:58:16 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:58:16 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Charging scheme draft again In-Reply-To: <20090721090717.GI1385@f17.dmitry.net> References: <20090721080521.GH1385@f17.dmitry.net> <20090721083919.GM14945@wssyg117.sygroup-int.ch> <20090721090717.GI1385@f17.dmitry.net> Message-ID: <4A659138.1080600@is-production.com> Dmitry Kiselev wrote: > No, it is not that I mean. My question about "why PI assignment > size and year of assignment doesn't take into account while > DA fee calculation"? Scenarios B1, B2 and C does not do that. > And in the same time scenarios B1, B2 and C use this criterias > for LIR's score/fee calculation. Why? Why DA better/worse than > LIR's PA? According to B1,B2 and C. I support this question and would like to understand also. Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From batatia at sbm.com.sa Tue Jul 21 12:01:28 2009 From: batatia at sbm.com.sa (Abdullah Al-Batati) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:01:28 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Abdullah Al-Batati is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 07/17/2009 and will not return until 08/21/2009. I will respond to your message when I return. for urgent issue please contact Ahmad Issa. mobile No. 0504671056 email : ahissa at sbm.com.sa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jochem at ripe.net Tue Jul 21 12:28:00 2009 From: jochem at ripe.net (Jochem de Ruig) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:28:00 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> Message-ID: <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> Hi, >>> >>> This Draft is showing us the "Percentage of Total Members per Billing >>> Category" table, but to understand the ressource management and "the >>> workload involved in providing the services", i would need to see a >>> table showing us the number of ressources (AS, /19V4,...,/32V6) and >>> TotalScoring per Billing categories. >>> >>> Would anybody from RIPE able to summarize and show such a table on the >>> list ? >> >> The table you can find the table of the total billing scores for 2009 in >> the billing procedure see: >> http://www.ripe.net/membership/billing/procedure-lir.html > > I understand the calculations (now :-) and know the maximum score for > each category, but i would need the SUM of the scores of all members > in each category : this will give us a view on how ressources are used > by each category. > > As far as i know, this is not published to members until now, may you > please make this important information available to members ? > Correct we have never published this but it is possible to publish the total sum per category: Below the total score per billing category. Billing category, Total score Extra Small, 101,836 Small, 235,263 Medium, 500,140 Large, 715,794 Extra Large, 1,661,418 Note that these scores are based on different Internet Number Resources over time so this will not give you accurate information on the specific resources used per category. Kind regards, Jochem de Ruig RIPE NCC > Best regards, From nigel at titley.com Tue Jul 21 12:10:36 2009 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 11:10:36 +0100 Subject: [members-discuss] gm-may2009/presentations/voting-options.pdf In-Reply-To: <4A65615A.8010000@is-production.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> <4A5F2C60.4010306@is-production.com> <4A5F459D.1080408@nosc.ja.net> <4A65615A.8010000@is-production.com> Message-ID: <4A65941C.1060205@titley.com> Bernard Dugas wrote: > The original "democracy" was based on random selection in greece : > this was to avoid that economical powers would ridge the election > process through influences... It is an intriguing idea. Of course the selection process in ancient Greece was limited to a fairly narrow range of candidates, roughly 10% of the total population (only full citizens, no women or slaves, for example) > > The current political election process is no democracy, this is beauty > contest and psychology warfare, where the most you ads and frighten > people, the most you win. > > I'm not telling that RIPE elections are like that :-) But don't take > current political process as a model... I'm glad you aren't comparing the RIPE NCC Board with politicians. I would feel compelled to resign on the spot if you had. In all seriousness though. If you wish to open a discussion on the election process, then this is the list to do it on. Note that the current board has taken the step of encouraging the NCC to make announcements on this list rather than just making them at general meetings. This is in order to encourage open debate. I'm pleased to see that this is having some effect. > > I don't know personnally anybody in the current board, how can i > choose and judge their skills ? This is a very valid point, but I'm not sure how we can work around it. We try and publish candidate biographies and platforms prior to elections, but I am aware that this is an imperfect process at the best. I for one am trying to get to regional meetings so that the membership can see that the board actually exists and doesn't have two heads or anything odd like that. > > The result is that i have not voted until now, because i don't know > anybody and the cost to go to the GM meeting is too high... The proxy voting system allows you to vote remotely, but of course if you don't know us then, as you say, a vote is pointless. > > And currently, i am not sure the current board is representing the > members : how many boards members are from ExtraSmall and Small > categories ? > > This is why i ask to know which RIPE members are representing the > current boards members. Well, I for one have worked for pretty well all sizes of category: national PTT, US corporate, European corporate, Global undersea cable, startup, IXP, small ecommerce. Pretty well the only type of member I haven't worked for is academic. I hope I understand and have sympathy for the problems of members of all types and sizes. All the best Nigel RIPE NCC Board chairman From hank at efes.iucc.ac.il Tue Jul 21 13:25:44 2009 From: hank at efes.iucc.ac.il (Hank Nussbacher) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:25:44 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [members-discuss] gm-may2009/presentations/voting-options.pdf In-Reply-To: <4A65941C.1060205@titley.com> References: <4A65615A.8010000@is-production.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> <4A5F2C60.4010306@is-production.com> <4A5F459D.1080408@nosc.ja.net> <4A65615A.8010000@is-production.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20090721142332.00c3bd28@efes.iucc.ac.il> At 11:10 21/07/2009 +0100, Nigel Titley wrote: >In all seriousness though. If you wish to open a discussion on the >election process, then this is the list to do it on. Note that the current >board has taken the step of encouraging the NCC to make announcements on >this list rather than just making them at general meetings. This is in >order to encourage open debate. I'm pleased to see that this is having >some effect. >... >>The result is that i have not voted until now, because i don't know >>anybody and the cost to go to the GM meeting is too high... >The proxy voting system allows you to vote remotely, but of course if you >don't know us then, as you say, a vote is pointless. How about the matter of electronic voting that I had raised previously? Why can't that be implemented? -Hank From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Tue Jul 21 15:17:32 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:17:32 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> Message-ID: <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> Jochem de Ruig wrote: >>>>This Draft is showing us the "Percentage of Total Members per Billing >>>>Category" table, but to understand the ressource management and "the >>>>workload involved in providing the services", i would need to see a >>>>table showing us the number of ressources (AS, /19V4,...,/32V6) and >>>>TotalScoring per Billing categories. ... > Correct we have never published this but it is possible to publish the > total sum per category: > > Below the total score per billing category. > Billing category, Total score > Extra Small, 101,836 > Small, 235,263 > Medium, 500,140 > Large, 715,794 > Extra Large, 1,661,418 Thank you very much, it is very interesting. Somebody told me before it was confidential, but i was not understanding why : it appears it is not confidential. > Note that these scores are based on different Internet Number Resources > over time so this will not give you accurate information on the specific > resources used per category. Yes, the billing scheme use a table showing how much each ressource is worth points. Please would you also give us the mumbers of each ressources (N?of : AS, /19V4, /20V4, /21V4, /22V4, /30V6, /31V6, /32V6, /33V6) used in each billing category ? Are they any other ressources used by members or users of RIPE/RIPE NCC ? Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From jochem at ripe.net Tue Jul 21 15:41:40 2009 From: jochem at ripe.net (Jochem de Ruig) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:41:40 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> Message-ID: <4A65C594.6060701@ripe.net> Hi, Just to clarify towards the mailing list >> >> Below the total score per billing category. >> Billing category, Total score Extra Small, 101,836 Small, >> 235,263 Medium, 500,140 Large, 715,794 Extra Large, 1,661,418 > > Thank you very much, it is very interesting. Somebody told me before > it was confidential, but i was not understanding why : it appears it > is not confidential. > No the total sum per billing category is not confidential. The individual score of registries is treated as confidential information. >> Note that these scores are based on different Internet Number Resources >> over time so this will not give you accurate information on the specific >> resources used per category. > > Yes, the billing scheme use a table showing how much each ressource is > worth points. Please would you also give us the mumbers of each > ressources (N?of : AS, /19V4, /20V4, /21V4, /22V4, /30V6, /31V6, > /32V6, /33V6) used in each billing category ? > You can find this table in the Charging Scheme, in the appendix I > Are they any other ressources used by members or users of RIPE/RIPE NCC ? Also this you can find this table in the Charging Scheme, in the appendix I Kind regards, Jochem de Ruig RIPE NCC > Best regards, From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Tue Jul 21 15:52:06 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:52:06 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] gm-may2009/presentations/voting-options.pdf In-Reply-To: <4A65941C.1060205@titley.com> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20090716071813.04f09db0@efes.iucc.ac.il> <4A5F1CBF.10103@ripe.net> <4A5F2C60.4010306@is-production.com> <4A5F459D.1080408@nosc.ja.net> <4A65615A.8010000@is-production.com> <4A65941C.1060205@titley.com> Message-ID: <4A65C806.3050700@is-production.com> Nigel Titley wrote: > Bernard Dugas wrote: >> The original "democracy" was based on random selection in greece : >> this was to avoid that economical powers would ridge the election >> process through influences... > > It is an intriguing idea. Of course the selection process in ancient > Greece was limited to a fairly narrow range of candidates, roughly 10% > of the total population (only full citizens, no women or slaves, for > example) This was for all citizen : citizen definition has evolved. >> The current political election process is no democracy, this is beauty >> contest and psychology warfare, where the most you ads and frighten >> people, the most you win. >> >> I'm not telling that RIPE elections are like that :-) But don't take >> current political process as a model... > > I'm glad you aren't comparing the RIPE NCC Board with politicians. I > would feel compelled to resign on the spot if you had. Please don't take anything personal anytime. And specially now i don't know anybody there ;-) > In all seriousness though. If you wish to open a discussion on the > election process, then this is the list to do it on. Note that the > current board has taken the step of encouraging the NCC to make > announcements on this list rather than just making them at general > meetings. This is in order to encourage open debate. I'm pleased to see > that this is having some effect. We may begin by understanding the current situation : In the last 2 years : - how many members voted during each GM, physically and by proxy ? - how many votes from each billing category ? - how many board members from each category ? >> I don't know personnally anybody in the current board, how can i >> choose and judge their skills ? > > This is a very valid point, but I'm not sure how we can work around it. For the board election, what i understand now is that the process is more "lets do the volunteers". Adding some randomness in the process would be very simple and would add some interest from the base, knowing than anybody can refuse. But we still have to find a convenient process for voting on technical decisions like finance reports or billing scheme. I would support the idea of using the current need of RIPE to help funding an open software initiative, both for ramdom drawings and for open voting process through internet. >> The result is that i have not voted until now, because i don't know >> anybody and the cost to go to the GM meeting is too high... > > The proxy voting system allows you to vote remotely, but of course if > you don't know us then, as you say, a vote is pointless. And i don't know which proxy to use... > Well, I for one have worked for pretty well all sizes of category: > national PTT, US corporate, European corporate, Global undersea cable, > startup, IXP, small ecommerce. Pretty well the only type of member I > haven't worked for is academic. I hope I understand and have sympathy > for the problems of members of all types and sizes. I hope i will discover that also :-) Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Tue Jul 21 16:19:19 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:19:19 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A65C594.6060701@ripe.net> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> <4A65C594.6060701@ripe.net> Message-ID: <4A65CE67.2070101@is-production.com> Jochem de Ruig wrote: > No the total sum per billing category is not confidential. The > individual score of registries is treated as confidential information. Thanks a lot ! I understand this may be not open to general public and i don't need it now. Just to say that the info is in the public database, it is just long to compute, so this is not really confidential. Concerning RIPE members, i don't see any definition about ressources that would be confidential, for instance in the Articles of Association (http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/articles-association.html) Am i wrong ? >>Yes, the billing scheme use a table showing how much each ressource is >>worth points. Please would you also give us the mumbers of each >>ressources (N?of : AS, /19V4, /20V4, /21V4, /22V4, /30V6, /31V6, >>/32V6, /33V6) used in each billing category ? > > You can find this table in the Charging Scheme, in the appendix I Sorry, i may be unclear, i look for a table like this : Category ExtraSmall Small Medium Large eXtraLarge N? of AS N? of /19V4 N? of /20V4 N? of /21V4 N? of /22V4 N? of /30V6 N? of /31V6 N? of /32V6 N? of /33V6 But i couldn't find any in : http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/charging2009.html or in : http://ripe.net/ripe/draft-documents/gm-may2009/annualreport2008.pdf or on the website. >>Are they any other ressources used by members or users of RIPE/RIPE NCC ? > > Also this you can find this table in the Charging Scheme, in the appendix I Sorry, i didn't find it. I was talking about other size, for instance another member said on this list that there are some /14 somewhere. Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From hank at efes.iucc.ac.il Tue Jul 21 18:11:36 2009 From: hank at efes.iucc.ac.il (Hank Nussbacher) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:11:36 +0300 (IDT) Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Voting Options at General Meetings In-Reply-To: <4A65D8B2.9090600@ripe.net> References: <4A65D8B2.9090600@ripe.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Jul 2009, Axel Pawlik wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > The RIPE NCC Executive Board has been evaluating various options regarding > the proposal to change the voting procedure currently used to elect the > Executive Board during General Meetings. > > Several of these options were presented at the General Meeting in May 2009. > Please refer to this presentation for more details: > http://www.ripe.net/membership/gm/gm-may2009/presentations/ > > After discussion during this meeting, there was no clear consensus on how to > proceed. The minutes of the General Meeting are available at: > http://www.ripe.net/membership/gm/gm-may2009/minutes.html > > The Executive Board concluded that in order to widen participation in > elections, it will propose to allow voting by postal ballot for Executive > Board elections. This addition to the voting process will not require a major > effort or a major investment from the RIPE NCC. I think that is a poor choice for testing postal ballots. Due to the low interest in whether one person or another gets elected, the number of postal ballots submitted will be quite low - and you will therefore draw an erroneous conclusion. Why not have postal voting for the charging scheme? Offer a few alternatives - I bet that would generate much more voting interest. > > The Executive Board will monitor whether this enhancement leads to increased > participation and based on these outcomes will decide on further steps. > Sort of like watching the number of boats crossing a river and drawing a conclusion that based on the number of boats and commerce between the 2 shores it doesn't warrant building a bridge on that spot. -Hank > Membership discussion of the proposed changes to voting options for General > Meetings can take place at . > > For your information, there has already been some discussion on the > members-discuss mailing list. The mailing list archive is available at: > http://www.ripe.net/maillists/ncc-archives/members-discuss/2009/index.html#00064 > > Best regards, > > Axel Pawlik > Managing Director > RIPE NCC > From jochem at ripe.net Wed Jul 22 11:16:45 2009 From: jochem at ripe.net (Jochem de Ruig) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:16:45 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A65CE67.2070101@is-production.com> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> <4A65C594.6060701@ripe.net> <4A65CE67.2070101@is-production.com> Message-ID: <4A66D8FD.7050706@ripe.net> Dear Bernard, >>> worth points. Please would you also give us the mumbers of each >>> ressources (N?of : AS, /19V4, /20V4, /21V4, /22V4, /30V6, /31V6, >>> /32V6, /33V6) used in each billing category ? >> >> You can find this table in the Charging Scheme, in the appendix I > Yes, the billing scheme use a table showing how much each ressource is > > Sorry, i may be unclear, i look for a table like this : > > Category ExtraSmall Small Medium Large eXtraLarge > N? of AS > N? of /19V4 > N? of /20V4 > N? of /21V4 > N? of /22V4 > N? of /30V6 > N? of /31V6 > N? of /32V6 > N? of /33V6 > I do not have a table like this available. The Charging Scheme is an automated process and has as output mainly a score per registry. This will require quite some manual work from our side. When this is very relevant to discuss the Charging Scheme then this will be possible in due time. May be you can find the answer to your question from the readily information at: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/delegated-ripencc-latest This shows all the delegated resources from the RIPE NCC to its members. Kind regards, Jochem de Ruig From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Thu Jul 23 00:36:02 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:36:02 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A66D8FD.7050706@ripe.net> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> <4A65C594.6060701@ripe.net> <4A65CE67.2070101@is-production.com> <4A66D8FD.7050706@ripe.net> Message-ID: <4A679452.9000401@is-production.com> Dear Jochem, Jochem de Ruig wrote: >>Sorry, i may be unclear, i look for a table like this : >> >>Category ExtraSmall Small Medium Large eXtraLarge >>N? of AS >>N? of /19V4 >>N? of /20V4 >>N? of /21V4 >>N? of /22V4 >>N? of /30V6 >>N? of /31V6 >>N? of /32V6 >>N? of /33V6 > > I do not have a table like this available. The Charging Scheme is an > automated process and has as output mainly a score per registry. This > will require quite some manual work from our side. When this is very > relevant to discuss the Charging Scheme then this will be possible in > due time. I think this is very relevant to understand the current billing scheme that is quite complicated from my beginner point of view : What i understand is that there is a RessourceScore and a TimedScore : - RessourceScore is based on an arbitrary value corresponding to each ressource allocated or assigned to a member ; - TimedScore is a value computed from each RessourceScore by taking into account the age of the ressource allocation or assignation. Then, there is another function that make a classification of the members in 5 classes, that i imagine are carefully chosen by factors i don't know currently. But i don't forget that the basic goal of RIPE is to manage some scarce resources that are IP adresses and ASNumbers. So as i am told that this classification of members in 5 categories is important, i would like to know how the ressources are used by these 5 categories. I can also understand that categories are an artificial concept that is not important at all, and that would be a good explanation why there is currently no table showing use of ressources by categories. But then i would ask myself why using categories in billing scheme if they are not useful anywhere else ? > May be you can find the answer to your question from the readily > information at: > ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/delegated-ripencc-latest > This shows all the delegated resources from the RIPE NCC to its members. Thanks a lot for this link. This is interesting but miss the relationship side from each ressource to the category. Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________|