From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Tue Aug 4 15:47:19 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:47:19 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A679452.9000401@is-production.com> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> <4A65C594.6060701@ripe.net> <4A65CE67.2070101@is-production.com> <4A66D8FD.7050706@ripe.net> <4A679452.9000401@is-production.com> Message-ID: <4A783BE7.8040909@is-production.com> Dear Jochem, Hello everybody, As no more messages on the list, I can imagine holidays are now there :-) If i may summarize my last email : - Why are we using "billing categories" ? It seems there are not useful to understand either the use of RIPE ressources or the quantities of services delivered to members. I have added some more questions regarding your last link : >> ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/delegated-ripencc-latest >> This shows all the delegated resources from the RIPE NCC to its members. If there is somewhere a FAQ regarding this file, please accept my apologises for these questions, i would read it first, but i didn't find any : - Some dates (5th column) are set to 0 : what does it means ? - A lot of ressources are assigned or allocated before 1993 and thus are not used for computing current TimedScore : why ? - Would it be possible to ask RIPE NCC to add a column with the billing category, so anybody may compute the statistics ? Thanks a lot, Best regards, Bernard Dugas Bernard Dugas wrote: > Dear Jochem, > > Jochem de Ruig wrote: > >>> Sorry, i may be unclear, i look for a table like this : >>> >>> Category ExtraSmall Small Medium Large eXtraLarge >>> N? of AS N? of >>> /19V4 N? of >>> /20V4 N? of >>> /21V4 N? of >>> /22V4 N? of >>> /30V6 N? of >>> /31V6 N? of >>> /32V6 N? of >>> /33V6 >> >> >> I do not have a table like this available. The Charging Scheme is an >> automated process and has as output mainly a score per registry. This >> will require quite some manual work from our side. When this is very >> relevant to discuss the Charging Scheme then this will be possible in >> due time. > > > I think this is very relevant to understand the current billing scheme > that is quite complicated from my beginner point of view : > > What i understand is that there is a RessourceScore and a TimedScore : > - RessourceScore is based on an arbitrary value corresponding to each > ressource allocated or assigned to a member ; > - TimedScore is a value computed from each RessourceScore by taking into > account the age of the ressource allocation or assignation. > > Then, there is another function that make a classification of the > members in 5 classes, that i imagine are carefully chosen by factors i > don't know currently. > > But i don't forget that the basic goal of RIPE is to manage some scarce > resources that are IP adresses and ASNumbers. > > So as i am told that this classification of members in 5 categories is > important, i would like to know how the ressources are used by these 5 > categories. > > I can also understand that categories are an artificial concept that is > not important at all, and that would be a good explanation why there is > currently no table showing use of ressources by categories. > > But then i would ask myself why using categories in billing scheme if > they are not useful anywhere else ? > >> May be you can find the answer to your question from the readily >> information at: >> ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/delegated-ripencc-latest >> This shows all the delegated resources from the RIPE NCC to its members. > > > Thanks a lot for this link. > > This is interesting but miss the relationship side from each ressource > to the category. > > Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Tue Aug 4 18:47:40 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:47:40 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A679452.9000401@is-production.com> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> <4A65C594.6060701@ripe.net> <4A65CE67.2070101@is-production.com> <4A66D8FD.7050706@ripe.net> <4A679452.9000401@is-production.com> Message-ID: <4A78662C.3000601@is-production.com> Still working on this allocation summary file : >> ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/delegated-ripencc-latest >> This shows all the delegated resources from the RIPE NCC to its members. - I assume that for IP ranges, assigned means PI : is it right or wrong ? - Some IPV4 assigned range have an IP address number (column I) that is not a power of 2, as it should be (like 193.39.32.0 which is described with 8704 address, that should be either 8192 for /19 or 16384 for /20). Why ? If anybody has some answers... Thanks a lot, Best regards, Bernard Dugas Bernard Dugas wrote: > Dear Jochem, > > Jochem de Ruig wrote: > >>> Sorry, i may be unclear, i look for a table like this : >>> >>> Category ExtraSmall Small Medium Large eXtraLarge >>> N? of AS N? of >>> /19V4 N? of >>> /20V4 N? of >>> /21V4 N? of >>> /22V4 N? of >>> /30V6 N? of >>> /31V6 N? of >>> /32V6 N? of >>> /33V6 >> >> >> I do not have a table like this available. The Charging Scheme is an >> automated process and has as output mainly a score per registry. This >> will require quite some manual work from our side. When this is very >> relevant to discuss the Charging Scheme then this will be possible in >> due time. > > > I think this is very relevant to understand the current billing scheme > that is quite complicated from my beginner point of view : > > What i understand is that there is a RessourceScore and a TimedScore : > - RessourceScore is based on an arbitrary value corresponding to each > ressource allocated or assigned to a member ; > - TimedScore is a value computed from each RessourceScore by taking into > account the age of the ressource allocation or assignation. > > Then, there is another function that make a classification of the > members in 5 classes, that i imagine are carefully chosen by factors i > don't know currently. > > But i don't forget that the basic goal of RIPE is to manage some scarce > resources that are IP adresses and ASNumbers. > > So as i am told that this classification of members in 5 categories is > important, i would like to know how the ressources are used by these 5 > categories. > > I can also understand that categories are an artificial concept that is > not important at all, and that would be a good explanation why there is > currently no table showing use of ressources by categories. > > But then i would ask myself why using categories in billing scheme if > they are not useful anywhere else ? > >> May be you can find the answer to your question from the readily >> information at: >> ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/delegated-ripencc-latest >> This shows all the delegated resources from the RIPE NCC to its members. > > > Thanks a lot for this link. > > This is interesting but miss the relationship side from each ressource > to the category. > > Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From jochem at ripe.net Wed Aug 5 12:56:54 2009 From: jochem at ripe.net (Jochem de Ruig) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:56:54 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A783BE7.8040909@is-production.com> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> <4A65C594.6060701@ripe.net> <4A65CE67.2070101@is-production.com> <4A66D8FD.7050706@ripe.net> <4A679452.9000401@is-production.com> <4A783BE7.8040909@is-production.com> Message-ID: <4A796576.4030708@ripe.net> Dear Bernard, To address you comments and questions I will approach you off line, this will be more effective and interactive and to discuss the Charging Scheme it is not necessary to address these questions on this mailing list. Kind regards, Jochem RIPE NCC Bernard Dugas wrote: > Dear Jochem, Hello everybody, > > As no more messages on the list, I can imagine holidays are now there :-) > > If i may summarize my last email : > > - Why are we using "billing categories" ? > > It seems there are not useful to understand either the use of RIPE > ressources or the quantities of services delivered to members. > > I have added some more questions regarding your last link : > >> ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/delegated-ripencc-latest > >> This shows all the delegated resources from the RIPE NCC to its > members. > > If there is somewhere a FAQ regarding this file, please accept my > apologises for these questions, i would read it first, but i didn't > find any : > > - Some dates (5th column) are set to 0 : what does it means ? > > - A lot of ressources are assigned or allocated before 1993 and thus > are not used for computing current TimedScore : why ? > > - Would it be possible to ask RIPE NCC to add a column with the > billing category, so anybody may compute the statistics ? > > Thanks a lot, > Best regards, > Bernard Dugas > > > Bernard Dugas wrote: > >> Dear Jochem, >> >> Jochem de Ruig wrote: >> >>>> Sorry, i may be unclear, i look for a table like this : >>>> >>>> Category ExtraSmall Small Medium Large eXtraLarge >>>> N? of AS N? of >>>> /19V4 N? of >>>> /20V4 N? of >>>> /21V4 N? of >>>> /22V4 N? of >>>> /30V6 N? of >>>> /31V6 N? of >>>> /32V6 N? of >>>> /33V6 >>> >>> >>> I do not have a table like this available. The Charging Scheme is an >>> automated process and has as output mainly a score per registry. This >>> will require quite some manual work from our side. When this is very >>> relevant to discuss the Charging Scheme then this will be possible in >>> due time. >> >> >> I think this is very relevant to understand the current billing >> scheme that is quite complicated from my beginner point of view : >> >> What i understand is that there is a RessourceScore and a TimedScore : >> - RessourceScore is based on an arbitrary value corresponding to each >> ressource allocated or assigned to a member ; >> - TimedScore is a value computed from each RessourceScore by taking >> into account the age of the ressource allocation or assignation. >> >> Then, there is another function that make a classification of the >> members in 5 classes, that i imagine are carefully chosen by factors >> i don't know currently. >> >> But i don't forget that the basic goal of RIPE is to manage some >> scarce resources that are IP adresses and ASNumbers. >> >> So as i am told that this classification of members in 5 categories >> is important, i would like to know how the ressources are used by >> these 5 categories. >> >> I can also understand that categories are an artificial concept that >> is not important at all, and that would be a good explanation why >> there is currently no table showing use of ressources by categories. >> >> But then i would ask myself why using categories in billing scheme if >> they are not useful anywhere else ? >> >>> May be you can find the answer to your question from the readily >>> information at: >>> ftp://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/delegated-ripencc-latest >>> This shows all the delegated resources from the RIPE NCC to its >>> members. >> >> >> Thanks a lot for this link. >> >> This is interesting but miss the relationship side from each >> ressource to the category. >> >> Best regards, > > From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Wed Aug 5 17:35:24 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:35:24 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A796576.4030708@ripe.net> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> <4A65C594.6060701@ripe.net> <4A65CE67.2070101@is-production.com> <4A66D8FD.7050706@ripe.net> <4A679452.9000401@is-production.com> <4A783BE7.8040909@is-production.com> <4A796576.4030708@ripe.net> Message-ID: <4A79A6BC.2070907@is-production.com> Dear Jochem, Jochem de Ruig wrote: > Dear Bernard, > > To address you comments and questions I will approach you off line, this > will be more effective and interactive and to discuss the Charging > Scheme it is not necessary to address these questions on this mailing list. Concerning the questions on the file, i would gladly accept your help in private email. But answers will help me to provide an interesting analysis to all members. Concerning the question on why using billing categories, i think that this is the whole point of the charging scheme : why having billing categories in 1 case and not in the other ? What is the point of these categories ? I am sure that all members will be interested to know specially new and small members... Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| From zivl at gilat.net Thu Aug 6 09:18:21 2009 From: zivl at gilat.net (Ziv Leyes) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:18:21 +0300 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A79A6BC.2070907@is-production.com> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> <4A65C594.6060701@ripe.net> <4A65CE67.2070101@is-production.com> <4A66D8FD.7050706@ripe.net> <4A679452.9000401@is-production.com> <4A783BE7.8040909@is-production.com> <4A796576.4030708@ripe.net> <4A79A6BC.2070907@is-production.com> Message-ID: After you're done please be kind and post your conclusions here? Thanks, Ziv -----Original Message----- From: members-discuss-admin at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-admin at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Bernard Dugas Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 6:35 PM To: Jochem de Ruig Cc: members-discuss at ripe.net Subject: Re: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 Dear Jochem, Jochem de Ruig wrote: > Dear Bernard, > > To address you comments and questions I will approach you off line, this > will be more effective and interactive and to discuss the Charging > Scheme it is not necessary to address these questions on this mailing list. Concerning the questions on the file, i would gladly accept your help in private email. But answers will help me to provide an interesting analysis to all members. Concerning the question on why using billing categories, i think that this is the whole point of the charging scheme : why having billing categories in 1 case and not in the other ? What is the point of these categories ? I am sure that all members will be interested to know specially new and small members... Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________| ---- If you don't want to receive mails from the RIPE NCC Members Discuss list, please log in to your LIR Portal account at: http://lirportal.ripe.net/ First click on General and then click on Edit. At the bottom of the Page you can add or remove addresses. ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4310 (20090805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4310 (20090805) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************ From bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com Fri Aug 7 10:04:39 2009 From: bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com (Bernard Dugas) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:04:39 +0200 Subject: [members-discuss] Re: [ncc-announce] Draft RIPE NCC Charging Scheme 2010 In-Reply-To: <4A796576.4030708@ripe.net> References: <4A5B3F2A.2080700@ripe.net> <4A656BA7.7090904@is-production.com> <4A6575BA.9040009@ripe.net> <4A6581B1.4070302@is-production.com> <4A659830.7020402@ripe.net> <4A65BFEC.7010002@is-production.com> <4A65C594.6060701@ripe.net> <4A65CE67.2070101@is-production.com> <4A66D8FD.7050706@ripe.net> <4A679452.9000401@is-production.com> <4A783BE7.8040909@is-production.com> <4A796576.4030708@ripe.net> Message-ID: <4A7BE017.30305@is-production.com> Hi Ziv, After you're done please be kind and post your conclusions here? Thanks, Ziv Yes sure, this is my goal and intent :-) Best regards, -- __Bernard DUGAS ______________________________________________________ | IS Production s.a. Innovative Solutions | | Technoparc Pays de Gex bernard.dugas.2009 at is-production.com | | 01633 ST GENIS POUILLY CEDEX - FRANCE - Mob.: +33 615 333 770 | | PLEASE NOTE NEW EMAIL ! ATTENTION NOUVEL EMAIL ! | |______________________________________________________________________|