On Mon, 17 April 2000, Gareth Staff wrote:

> Furthermore, RIPE is made up of numerous business interests and that
> the RIPE NCC is, in effect, employed by these businesses for the express
> purpose of handling their IP address requests.

This is an understandable misunderstanding but nevertheless, a misunderstanding. First you should remember that a not-for-profit organization like RIPE is typically not employed by anyone but is operated by a group of members for the benefit of the group as a whole and often for the benefit of the general public as well. Secondly, you may wish to note that RIPE serves not only businesses but also academic institutions, governmental organizations and, often indirectly, the general public in Europe, the Middle East and Northern Africa.

> Since there are many issues that have been raised (and I have yet to
> see a constructive response from the RIPE NCC management) I feel
> it necessary to ask the question..
> 
> Who does the RIPE NCC management answer to ?

First of all, they certainly do not answer to the members of this mailing list. The list is available for interested parties to discuss a specific set of issues, namely those related to LIRs, but that doesn't mean the NCC management reports to this list.

You need to be aware that there is a somewhat complex structure that has been built up over the years. On the one hand, RIPE is a type of membership organization that answers to its members and has built a tradition of focussing its activities in areas that its members are willing to support. This can be tricky at times because many of the members are businesses that compete directly in one or more Internet related industries.

On the other hand, RIPE NCC is part of a global structure that manages those aspects of the Internet which need to be jointly managed. There is a central focus for this management structure in ICANN http://www.icann.org which has taken over the management and policy activities that were formerly handled by IANA http://www.iana.org and the IETF http://www.ietf.org. The RIPE NCC is one of three global organizations (soon to be 5) that handle the day to day activities of IP address registration in their region. The others are ARIN http://www.arin.net in the Americas and Sothern Africa, and APNIC http://www.apnic.net in the Asia-Pacific region. These three organizations could be said to also answer to ICANN and the ASO council of ICANN because they must administer policies which are agreeable to all parts of this planet.

If this sounds a lot like a complex political beast, then you are beginning to understand. 

> I would like to see the RIPE NCC being more open to these discussions, and
> honest about
> any problems that they are having. I really do not think it is acceptable to
> act as though we,
> as members of the RIPE community, do not have a right to know what is going
> on within
> the organisation and to promote a closed door policy as far as information
> is concerned.

And now you should understand why you see the typical symptoms of a bureaucracy within RIPE. This is neither bad nor good; just one of those things that are inevitable in organizations that must serve many masters.

> After all, who pays the bills ?

See the part about many masters...

> Accountability for the services offered must be clarified if positive action
> is to be taken, I would
> not like to see these issues ignored and swept under the carpet, otherwise
> we face the prospect
> of having an organisation that we pay for, doesn't work for us, and
> implements internal policies
> that alienates its' staff to the point where they feel that their only
> option is to leave.

I have yet to see evidence that the issues are being ignored. So far, I see the RIPE NCC attempting to deal with some issues, discussing those issues openly, and finding that there is some disagreement as to whether their plan of action is the right one.
 
> This is something that all members of the community must take seriously and

I also do not see any evidence that people in the community are not taking the issue seriously. They, like all of us, have to balance many issues in their workaday lives and can only give top priority to a small number of them. Since we don't know all the issues vying for their attention, I think it would be hasty for us to judge them with such little information.

---
Michael Dillon   Phone: +44 (20) 7769 8489   
                 Mobile: +44 (79) 7099 2658
Director of Product Engineering, GTS IP Services
151 Shaftesbury Ave.
London WC2H 8AL
UK




