[ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Sergey A. Mukhin wrote:

> On the other hand there is a tendency to a fast growing number
> of LIRs in the fSU countries and it might make sense for RIPE
> itself to establish its office or RIR for those who agree
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	"Office" -- no problem, but not "RIR"!  How can RIPE
	establish a RIR without an agreement in the community
	of the region served?  RIR creation should be
	initiated by the representative community, not RIPE,
	or am I missing something?

> to be served there to get load off the main office. ( Not a
> business of mine, I agree. ) Consider the size of fSU region.

	fSU is not a region.  Please use non-political
	but geographical terms for defining region borders.
 
> A> 	Who else rises the hand?  Mr. Alexey Platonov (Moscow,
> A> 	RosNIIROS), and Mr. Anatoly Kramer (Moscow, ??? -- who
> A> 	doesn't even aware of what e-mail is, AFAIK) -- two men,
> A> 	two Russian semi-governmental organisations, each wants
> A> 	to establish a "big registry" in Moscow, and to extend the scope
> A> 	of this RIR to adjucent countries, taking away any choice
> A> 	of where to be served from those countries.
> 
> Well, and who was 'contra' except Ukraine?

	Ok, but who was present but Russia and Ukraine?
	Russia was "pro", Ukraine was "contra".
	1:1

> awaiting for votes "contra". There were no more "contra" yet.

	ripe-167 is way too unclear for everyone to get its
	main ideas in a moment.

> >> Any people decide most ( or all ) of their own problems theirselves.
> 
> A> 	This statement of yours contradicts directly with the
> A> 	approach of ripe-167 document.
> 
> I am afraid you mistreat the approach.

	I'm afraid that ripe-167 is just very unclear and uncertain
	at this point.

> >> But sometimes it is better to unite to get the solutions easier.
> 
> A> 	Would you mind explaining the benefits of uniting with you, please.
> A> 	(Let's note that this last statement of yours has nothing close
> A> 	to ripe-167's content at all).  No offense: friendship and
> A> 	union are different things, aren't they?
> 
> I meant benefits of uniting .(point)

	There are some benefits and some losses...

> If you suppose uniting of 
> everybody but us, that sounds a bit odd, does not it?

	I don't like the idea of *any* union with *anyone* until
	it will be though out carefully in all the details
	and everything will be obvious, certain and clear.

> A> 	Pretty simple: some people here in Ukraine (me among them)
> A> 	have a strong feeling that some Moscow guys want to "unite"
> A> 	us with them without taking our opinion into attentions.
> 
> I am afraid I would never understand such a point of view. We declare
> free choice for all.

	Would you mind pointing me at the written document where
	one can get a clear and certain statement of this?

> I meant just the following effect of the Soviet Union: 6 years are
> not enough for a new generation who knows English rather than
> Russia; not enough to get old communications completely changed.

	Please leave alone this old crap about English/Russian
	language.  If you are a LIR (and RIR serves LIRs) you
	ought to know English, point.  If you don't know
	English, you are the customer of a LIR where staff
	is more knowlegeable.

	Agreed?

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Sergey A. Mukhin			|    violet at rosnet.net
>     Network Administrator		|    http://violet.rosnet.net/
>     Russian Telecommunications Network	|    Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15
>     Moscow, Russia			|	  + 7 095 755 85 88
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *     If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly.     *
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> 

Best regards,
Andrew Stesin

nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE