Minutes of LIR WG meeting at RIPE 25

Below please find the minutes of the Local IR WG
meeting last week; comments and corrections are welcome.

I'm very grateful to Anne Lord for taking a full and accurate
record of the proceedings, and to Janos Szako for presenting
the WG report to the plenary in my absence.

Mike Norris



                Local IR Working Group minutes
                RIPE 25: September 23rd, 1996
                    Nikhef, Amsterdam

Chair:  Mike Norris
Scribe: Anne Lord

1. Preliminaries

The chairman welcomed the audience to the working group session and
Anne Lord (was) auto-volunteered as scribe.  There were over 90
people present at the meeting of the working group.

2. RIPE 24

Minutes:

The minutes from the previous working group meeting at RIPE 24 were
approved without comment.

Actions:

All the actions below were completed and marked as DONE:

Action 24.5 : complete ripe-104++ draft and circulate
Action 24.6 : produce new IP address request form
Action 24.7 : circulate paper on charging by local IR's
Action 24.8 : raise question of removing European networks from InterNIC db.

It was noted that in fact duplicate entries of European networks had now
been removed from the InterNIC database.

3. Reports from Registries

RIPE NCC

It was noted that a full report from the RIPE NCC Registration Services
Manager would be given at the plenary, so a report would be deferred
until then.

o Contributors committee

The RIPE NCC Contributors committee met on 11th September 1996.  At
the meeting there was agreement on the proposed activity plan for the
RIPE NCC for 1997.  Of relevance for the local IR working group, the
workplan included recommendations to hire additional hostmasters for
the Registration Services activity of the RIPE NCC, operating under the
new policy and procedures of ripe-104++ (now ripe-140).

o Other registries

There were no reports from other local IR's.

o Other regionals

There were no reports from any other Regional IR's.

4. IP address space assignment

o Summary of position

Several important documents were completed since the last meeting.
These are:

ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-140.{txt,ps}
 "European Internet Registry Policies & Procedures"

ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-141.{txt,ps}
 "European IP Address Space Request Form"

ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-142.{txt,ps}
 "Supporting Notes for the European IP Address Space Request Form"

ripe-140 obsoletes a number of other documents: ripe-104, ripe-105 and
ripe-136 and is the first document to describe in full the policies of
the European Regional Internet Registry.  Other Regional IR's follow
the same principles of policy.

o Some inconsistencies

A number of inconsistencies between ripe-140 and ripe-141 have emerged.
Notably :

The admin-c, zone-c and tech-c attributes in the objects in ripe-140
requests a "nic-hdl" as mandatory but this is not endorsed by the
DB software.

The "status" attribute in the "inetnum" object in ripe-140 is mandatory
but again this is not endorsed by the DB software.

A short discussion followed whereby it was agreed to make both attributes
mandatory.  This was to be recommended to the DB working group for
approval.

5. Charging by local IR's

A draft paper by Mike Norris and Daniel Karrenberg on "Charging by
local IR's" had now been circulated to the DNS working group mailing list
and TLD's administrators.  The paper was endorsed by the DNS working
group and the group agreed that it should now be published as a RIPE
document. The paper recommends that Local IR's should publish their
policies with respect to the sale or not of both address and namespace.

Action: RIPE NCC

To publish paper on "charging by Local IR's" as a RIPE document.

6. Training

o Training courses

A report on the status of the training for local IR's will be reported
in the Report from the RIPE NCC in the plenary session.

Currently 2 courses per month are being run and there are no plans
to reduce this frequency.   It was noted that in the 1997 budget for
the RIPE NCC, funds would continue to be available for the training of
Internet registries.

It was suggested by Antonio_Blasco Bonito that it would be useful to have
the slides from the training courses converted into html format. This was
agreed by the NCC providing they could find a convertor from framemaker to
html.

Action: RIPE NCC

To convert slides from Local IR training courses to html format
subject to finding a suitable mechanism for conversion from framemaker.

o Local IR workshop

There was no discussion under this point.

7. Input/output with other working groups

o Database

Recommendations will be made to the DB working group as reported under
agenda point 4 "Some inconsistencies".

o DNS

The DNS wg endorses the charging document as reported under agenda point
5 "Charging by local IR's".

There were no other comments as input our output from other working groups.

8. Global registry co-ordination

Daniel Karrenberg reported that the RIPE NCC as a Regional IR has
a good working relationship with the IANA and the other Regional IR's.
ripe-140 has been published as a guideline to the policies in Europe, but
there is implicit agreement on these policies by all other Regional
RR's.

He also reported that since the last meeting, all duplicate registration
of networks in the InterNIC database for European networks have now
been removed.  Whilst the RIPE NCC and AP-NIC databases are synchronised
as they use a common architecture, the InterNIC database does not and
the work on the synchronisation between all RR's is held up by lack
of resources at the InterNIC to devote to this.  This is something that
the RIPE NCC has no authority to do anything about.  It was noted
that the InterNIC database is now classless however.

9. Reverse domains

o counts and errors

The counts and errors of the hostcount are regularly published by the
RIPE NCC. Reverse zone errors are monitored closely, with offenders
receiving notification of their errors with a request to fix. Daniel
Karrenberg commented that the 193.in-addr.apra  and 194.in-addr.arpa
zones are in fact quite well managed.

Wilfried Woeber asked whether it was recommended that reverse domains
objects were mandatory in the RIPE DB.  Carol Orange noted that it
was "recommended" for /24 reverse domain objects to be registered and
"mandatory" for /16 reverse domain objects.

10. AOB

Internet Registry Evolution (IRE)

Daniel Karrenberg reported on a new IETF working group, IRE, which
falls under the operations area of the IETF. In Montreal a BOF was
held which was quite well attended.  The chairman of the group is
David Conrad from the AP-NIC and he has circulated a number of draft
charters of the working group. Consensus is yet to be reached on the
document.  Broadly speaking the charter can be defined as:

"discussing all aspects relating to the policies of Internet Registries
and to channelise input from the IETF at large."

The RIPE NCC will attend these working group meetings regularly and
report at RIPE meetings. There is also a mailing list which you can
subscribe to at <ire-request at apnic.net>.  Everyone at the local IR
working group was encouraged to join in the discussions.

There was some discussion over the grey area between address space
policies and namespace policies and how this fitted into the charter
of the IRE working group. The RIPE NCC does not manage the allocation
of namsespace as a RR but the InterNIC does.  It was felt that the
two should be kept as separate.

Other

o PIARA (Prices of Internet Addresses and Route Advertisements)

Mike O'Dell introduced another new working group which is currently
under discussion, PIARA. It is concerned with an initiative looking
at ways of charging for address space.  There has been a suggestion
to make an experiment with charging and a draft paper has been
circulated.

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