[eix-wg] RIPE 56: EIX Working Group Minutes

Here are the minutes from the Berlin meeting.

Thanks to Susannah and our temporary scribe after lunch.

Corrections / Comments to the list or myself.

Just a reminder that the next meeting in Dubai starts on the Sunday  
not Monday, we will post the WG day as soon as it is finalised. If  
you have any feedback about clashes to avoid - now would be a good  
time to raise them.

Thanks

	Fearghas

RIPE 56: EIX Working Group Minutes

Status: Draft

Agenda
=======

Thursday, 8 May. 11.30-12:30

A. Administrative Matters

     * Welcome
     * Select a scribe: Susannah Gray
     * Jabber Monitor: Rumy Kanis (11:00), Mark Dranse (14:00)
     * Microphone Etiquette
     * Minutes from WG session at RIPE 55
     * Finalise agenda

B. IXP Updates

     * AMS-IX
     * DE-CIX + WORK-IX & ALP-IX
     * EQIX
     * INEX
     * LINX
     * LONAP
     * NaMeX
     * NDIX - Presentation of their new logo
     * Netnod
     * NIX.CZ
     * NYIIX/LAIIX
     * VIX
     * Overview of South Asian IXPs

C. Surprise Event

D. Euro-IX Update

-----------------------

Thursday, 8 May. 14:00-15:30

E. 40/100GbE IEEEE & Progress Update - Greg Hankins

F. Some IPv6 Observations at AMS-IX - Arien Vijn

H.  Results of the Peering Configuration Survey - Greg Hankins  
(Force10), Ren Provo (Comcast) & Tom Scholl (AT&T)

Z.. A.O.B.


=====


Thursday, 8 May. 11.30-12:30
----------------------------


Fearghas welcomed the attendees and opened the session.

B. IXP Updates

AMS-IX
Cara Mascini
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Mascini- 
AMS-IX_Update.pdf

There were no questions.

DE-CIX + WORK-IX & ALP-IX
Yvonne Hahn and Frank Orlowski
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Hahn-DE- 
CIX_IX_Update.pdf

There were no questions.

EQIX
Eric Troyer
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Troyer- 
Equinix_Global_Peering_Update.pdf

There were no questions.

INEX
Nick Hilliard
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Hilliard- 
INEX_update-WG.pdf

There were no questions.

LONAP
Andy Davidson
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Davidson- 
An_update_from_LONAP.pdf

LINX
Mike Hughes
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Hughes- 
LINX_News.pdf

There were no questions.

NaMeX
Daniele Arena
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Arena- 
NaMeX_Update.pdf

There were no questions.

NDIX - Presentation of their new logo
Remco van Mook
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/van_Mook- 
ndix_presentation.pdf

There were no questions.

Netnod
Nurani Nimpuno
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Nimpuno- 
RIPE_56_Netnod_Update.pdf

There were no questions.

NIX.CZ
Josef Chomyn
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Chomyn- 
NIX.CZ_update.pdf

There were no questions.

NYIIX/LAIIX
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Sugeno- 
NYIIX_LAIIX_Updates.pdf
Akio Sugeno

There were no questions.

VIX
Christian Panigl
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Panigl- 
VIX_Update.pdf

There were no questions .

Overview of South Asian IXPs
Gaurab Raj Upadhaya
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Upadhaya- 
Asia_Pacific_IXPs_Update.pdf

There were no questions.

C. Surprise Event

A survey was distributed and filled in by the attendees.

D. Euro-IX Update
Serge Radovcic
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Radovcic- 
Euro-IX_Update.pdf

There were no questions.


Thursday, 8 May. 14:00-15:30
-----------------------------------------


E. 40/100GbE IEEEE & Progress Update
Greg Hankins (Force10)
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/presentations/eix/Hankins- 
IEEE_802.3ba_Task_Force_Update.pdf

There were no questions.

F. Some IPv6 Observations at AMS-IX
Arein Vijn (AMS-IX)
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/agendas/eix.html

There were no questions.

G. Results of the Peering Configuration Survey
Greg Hankins (Force10)
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/agendas/eix.html

An attendee who had seen Greg's presentation at the Global Peering  
Forum (GPF) asked if any work had been done to find out if the eBGP  
multi-hop slide is actually correct.

Greg responded that the slide the attendee was referring to had been  
taken out of the presentation for this event. He explained that the  
slide was about how participants preferred to do load balancing and  
that the options were link aggregation, eBGP multi-hop, eBGP multi- 
path and a few others. He continued that people overwhelmingly chose  
eBGP multi-hop. After some discussion, it was concluded that people  
didn't actually understand the question.

Nick Hilliard (INEX) said that he had done something with Jumbo  
Peering LAN at INEX and found out that people are quite interested in  
it until they realise the can of worms that it opens up in terms of  
raising MTUs universally on their networks. He continued that you'll  
suddenly find yourself blackholing traffic and, because most End User  
boxes don't use anything greater than MTU 1500, debugging and  
monitoring is not easy. He added that the Jumbo LAN is still there,  
there's no one connected to it but that it was an interesting  
experiment.

Arein Vijn (AMS-IX) commented on the Jumbo LAN issue. He said that a  
few years ago, AMS-IX asked its members about Jumbo frames. They  
responded that their customers have 1500 byte frame sizes and so  
having a Jumbo LAN would only cause problems.

Greg said that, at the GPF when he first presented this presentation,  
he asked if these surveys should be carried out on an annual basis.  
He continued that a lot of people thought that it was a good idea and  
asked the RIPE Meeting attendees what they thought.

There was general agreement in the room that the survey should be  
carried out on an annual basis.

H. Let's do the Time Warp Again
Mike Hughes  (Linx)
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/agendas/eix.html

Kurtis Lindqvist (Netnod) commented that Netnod also runs NTP servers  
although they are operated on a more complex basis than Linx's  
servers. Netnod has a set of caesium servers and also a set of  
rebidium servers. It also gets a signal from the Swedish national  
time scale and that's actually what we end up distributing. This is  
good for applications that require you to be traceable to UTC. The  
drawback of using GPS, which is why Netnod does not use it, is that  
your accuracy is in the hands of someone else. There's well known  
techniques for jamming signals or disturbing them.

Mike responded that LINX decided that it did not need to have control  
of the time source but did not want to rely on a single time source.  
This is why the SHS, the secure hybrid platform, is a good solution  
because the German government are in control of one signal, or the  
British government are in control of MSF. He added that there's GPS  
stuff as well, which is also used by a lot of people, and this gives  
a better level of protection than just trusting a single time source  
without Linx having to run its own reference.

Kurtis commented that Netnod has been looking into providing higher  
accuracy frequency sources for people to clock their transport  
networks. Most people do this by using GPS, which again can be  
jammed, or they are buying it from somewhere else at a substantial  
cost. Netnod can provide a lot higher accuracy than this.

Mike responded that people are using the LINX system to synchronise  
sys-logs and to generally clock their networks to a reasonable level  
of accuracy but not the sort of level of accuracy that Kurtis mentioned.

I. v6 Numbering Plan @ Netnod
Kurtis Lindqvist (Netnod)
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-56/agendas/eix.html

Arein Vijn (AMS-IX) asked what will happen when there is no IPv4  
anymore and what will happen to the allocation scheme, which is based  
on IPv4.

Kurtis responded that Netnod will do nothing and that the scheme is  
not based on IPv4. He said that the scheme is based on having a  
number, not specifically an IPv4 one, at the end. He added that he  
might have problems when the last 64-bits run out.

Arein asked why there was no scheme for AS Numbers.

Kurtis responded that they had the IPv4 numbers and wanted to use the  
same numbers and that if they had started from scratch, they might  
have used AS Numbers. He added that more clever encoding can be done.

Lorenzo Colitti (Google) asked what will be done when Netnod has more  
than 256 members.

Kurtis said Netnod does have /23s and so it could be numbered a  
little higher. It has not been done yet but it could be but this is  
not really an issue. Netnod is currently at 50 members after more  
than 10 years in operation. IPV4 space will probably run out before  
it becomes an issue.

J. Gaurab Raj Upadaya
[No slides used]

Gaurab talked about IPv6 in exchange points and said that there seems  
to be a lot of discussion but no well established processes to do it.  
He would like to produce a BCP for exchange point operators and ISPs  
for connecting to an IXP. He asked the audience for feedback.

Arein Vijn (AMS-IX) said that he thought that an IXP can do what it  
wants. He added that AMS-IX's scheme doesn't have any administration  
in  it and people can figure out  an IPv6 address. He added that, for  
router interface configurations, the AMS-IX website has a  
configuration guide which is publicly available and has many IPv6  
options.  He said that he didn't see that there was actually a  
problem and asked what problems Gaurab was referring to.

Gaurab said that the AMS-IX guide is very well known in the  
community. He added that a lot of exchange point operators are  
getting confused about what the best way to deal with IPv6 is.

Arein said that he did not think there was one best way.

Gaurab said that perhaps all the current best practices could be  
documented.

Kurtis Lindqvist (Netnod) added that he didn't think there was a  
single best way of doing this. Writing guidelines and documenting  
what different options there are and the drawbacks of them all would  
be a good thing for exchange points to do.

Arein added that he was a bit shocked that this discussion was taking  
place now, as AMS-IX already had guidelines in 2001.

Fearghas declared that there was no consensus in the room about  
creating the BCP document. Gaurab said he would take the discussion  
to the mailing list.

Z. A.O.B

Prizes for the quiz were given out. Fearghas reminded the attendees  
that RIPE 57 takes place in Dubai and starts on a Sunday and not  
Monday as usual. He advised people to book their flights early and  
register for the meeting as soon as possible.

---
End.